Jonathan Sanchez once pitched a no-hitter. Kyle Lohse has never pitched a no-hitter. Therefore, Jonathan Sanchez > Kyle Lohse.
Well, it makes as much sense as many of the other points in this article!
Comment by thirteenthirteen — January 7, 2013 @ 5:29 pm
Good stuff. I think Lohse is that type of guy where everyone would rather ignore him and be wrong on the off-chance he succeeds than sign him and be wrong about him not failing — and GMs know this. Is it logical? Not really. But it’s exceedingly human.
I don’t know if this can be considered a theme, but a common consequence of Jeff Sullivan’s recent articles is making me feel inferior to *any* baseball player.
Comment by Baron Samedi — January 7, 2013 @ 5:34 pm
I’d almost think you were being sarcastic or something, if it weren’t for all of those thrilling baseball plays in gif form you used to back up your arguments! First-to-third on 100% of singles, you say? I’m sold!
Comment by rustyspatula — January 7, 2013 @ 5:39 pm
He’s the Adam LaRoche of pitching. Consistent, productive, but not sexy.
OK…..by threatening me with watching Jonathan Sanchez I now have been persuaded to appreciate Kyle Lohse. You sir have done the impossible twice: made me appreciate the (by MLB standards) rather underwhelming Mr. Lohse and found a use for Jonathan Sanchez! Bravo sir!
Comment by Rich Mahogany — January 7, 2013 @ 6:34 pm
I like Loshe and feel he would continue to be effective in Seattle, SF, SD, LAD & OAK… but that loss of a top pick is tough swallow when you have to pay him for 2 or 3 years as well. If healthy, he’s pretty good and a playoff level starter. I hope he resigns with STL on a 1 year deal. He should have taken the 13.3 and waited another season so he wouldn’t be connected with the loss of a pick.
Comment by algionfriddo — January 7, 2013 @ 7:16 pm
Lohse’s biggest problem is his agent. Not a chance he gets anywhere near what he’s searching for, and quite frankly, 2 years of good pitching shouldn’t mean a 5-6 year contract.
How much of his late signing is his agent’s strategy? How much is due to the team’s reluctance to deal with the agent? Many of his clients are still unsigned. That could be be intentional on the part of the agent, or not. I would like an insiders view of the Boras effect.
Regardless of his other skills, the Mariners should hire Lohse so his baserunning skill will rub off on Jesus Montero. 100%! Wtih Ibanez already in place for hitting and Wedge for catching (now that Olivo is gone), add Lohse and Jesus should develop into a premier player through osmosis alone.
His biggest issue may be that he’s a #3 pitcher with some good stuff who has Boras for an agent trying to get him CC Sabathia money and contract length. If he took $8-10 million for 2 years he’d be a Tiger or Red or Brave by now.
The problem for Lohse is that no one really believes he is a #1 or even #2 type starter, but he is going to get paid like one.
I have to believe several teams have already offered him two-year deals and possibly even a third with vesting options. He’s likely holding out for more years from someone.
Comment by Phantom Stranger — January 7, 2013 @ 8:57 pm
Kyle Lohse’s baserunning ability is second only to his ability to propagandate.
Comment by Samuel Deduno — January 7, 2013 @ 8:58 pm
Lohse has excelled in large part due to excellent coaching, Duncan and Larusa. I would expect a Suppan-esque regression, plus his demands equals no way.
As stated above, $16-20M over two years is perfect. As a brewers fan I’d approve one year $8M FWIW.
If his price came down, he would have a lot of interest.
The years/dollars he’s asking for will make it tough for him to provide value above the terms of his contract, while making it far too likely that he will perform significantly below that level (due to injuries, ineffectiveness, or even just decline).
To me, I think his price is just high enough that the risk is too great for most mid-market teams, even if they didn’t have to surrender a draft pick.
You know this article is tongue-in-cheek when it says “not a swing-and-miss pitcher, you say? Tell that to all the hitters he’s caused to swing and miss”.
As I think most of the readers here know, Lohse commands an impressive 5.6 K/9 rate for his career (5.7 these past two good seasons, so we can see he hasn’t gotten better there)! Definitely a big “stuff” guy.
His Oswing% is lower than Pablo Sandoval AND Vladimir Guererro! Both of them! They’re both successful hitters that clearly have a reputation of successfully hitting baseballs with a bat, and Lohse compares favorably to them. I’m convinced!
I think people see Kyle Lohse’s success in StL and think “Joel Pineiro”.
I don’t have anything against Kyle Lohse, but even as a Cardinal fan, I would rather let him walk than pay him what he thinks he is worth.
I would much rather have Edwin Jackson, even if he’s not as good of a bunter or prolific power hitting pitcher (<– joke).
If I were a GM, I'd be willing to give him a 3-year contract that averages to be worth 2 WAR/yr, so approximately 8-9M/yr. He's going to miss one season of the 3, and one of the 3 years he'll over-perform, but to balance it out, it would need to average around 2 WAR/y. Lohse is probably going to want more than 3/27.
I, personally, don't really like the gif's used in these threads. You could take gifs of ANY MLB pitcher/player and show them being successful and be impressed. I mean they're major leaguers, of course they have quality stuff. Even Phil Dumatrait looked good on some strikeout occassions.
If they are consistently good enough it comes through in the numbers. When pitching a full season (180-210 IP), he's a 2.5 – 3.5 WAR pitcher. The problem is 1 out of 3 seasons is a <1 WAR season due to injury.
Comment by CircleChange11 — January 8, 2013 @ 1:31 pm
And you are a Baron. Not many in these parts are amongst the landed gentry…
yeah I can’t tell if this is a joke or not. Sure Lohse is probably worth a 2/16 deal, but I would personally rather starting some one young.
Comment by vivaelpujols — January 9, 2013 @ 5:53 am
Actually reading it again this is clearly a joke.
Comment by vivaelpujols — January 9, 2013 @ 5:58 am
Lohse has done all the good things you say but how many games did he just go 6 innings and the relief corps saved the day. If Lohse had gone 7 – 8 innings in most of his outings he would be much more sought after. To me this is his shortcoming and he is not very exciting. And why the Cards should pay him a lot of money anyway…he is on the down side of his career.
I am a Cards fan. Lohse is a GREAT middle of the rotation guy. A 3 or 4, maybe #2 starter but NOT a #1. Why? Because he cannot pitch a big game ala Carp. Now there aren’t a lot of Carps around and not every team has one, but if you want to win championships you need one. In my opinion the difference between a Carp and a Lohse is confidence – confidence that you can throw your pitch, when you want, and get the other guy out. Good, bad, or otherwise, the Cards have a #5 (Westbrook), and a decent selection of mid rotation guys. What remains to be seen is if Carp is still Carp, and if, failing that, Wainwright can be a Carp (probably can).
Comment by Will MacPheat — January 11, 2013 @ 11:22 pm
Seeing lohse play many innings, he is a top notch guy. the media loves to look at his ealier career but when he was with st. louis he was a top rotation guy sometimes over shadowed by Carp and Wanino. Yes he had a RARE arm ingury but once corrected he retrurn to the form that got him the 4 year deal st. louis gave him after we signed for a year deal. He had 3 loses (so media likes to have an opinion and cant read 3 from 8 as they reported 8 many times)
If the cardinals didnt have so many pitching prospects i would of loved for them to offer him another multi-year deal. dave duncan taught him ho to be the pitcher he is, not the power pitcher he tried to be in early in his career..
He should of been signed months ago, All the bust teams make every year this guy is proven and will be great for another 3-4 years. If not longer.
Comment by STLcardsFAN — January 13, 2013 @ 2:20 am
As a Cardinal fan, the best compliment that I can give Lohse is that I was confident of the Cardinals chances each time he pitched. Pitchers will win some and lose some and a lot of that is out of a starters control (if theree is no offense on a particular day nobody will win) But, Lohse is a proven pitcher with good movement on most of his pitches and I would love for the Cards to get him back for at least 2 more seasons.