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  1. Fuck Jack Zduriencik

    Comment by njd.aitken — January 16, 2013 @ 7:08 pm

  2. Jack-Z isn’t a good GM.

    Comment by putupyourDUKES — January 16, 2013 @ 7:08 pm

  3. Great trade Jack, well done.

    Comment by Bill Bavasi — January 16, 2013 @ 7:16 pm

  4. This better be part of multiple, larger moves or I will be forced to believe that Jack WANTS to be fired. I just don’t get it. So depressed.

    Comment by Patrick — January 16, 2013 @ 7:17 pm

  5. Howard Lincoln & Chuck Armstrong need to go. Jack Zduriencik is just a for these incompetent fools.

    Comment by Slats — January 16, 2013 @ 7:19 pm

  6. Get me the hell out of this organization Justin Upton

    Comment by Taijuan Walker — January 16, 2013 @ 7:19 pm

  7. Jack Z should bring back Bloomquist, Betancourt, Vidro,
    Garcia, Moyer etc. and throw a family reunion!

    Comment by Slats — January 16, 2013 @ 7:23 pm

  8. As a Mariners fan who has been reading LookoutLanding and USSMariner for 10 years, I admit I just don’t have it in me to get incredibly angry about this kind of stuff anymore. Is Jason better than Morse? Definitely. Is this a franchise killer? Hardly. Neither Jason nor Morse have/had a roll with this team going forward. If Jack Z felt that we HAD to trade Jaso, I wish we’d gotten more. That’s about as emotionally worked up as I got.

    Comment by McExpos — January 16, 2013 @ 7:24 pm

  9. Hey Jack Z,

    I am available. I bring toughness and veteran leadership – the intangibles that Eric Wedge wants.

    Love,

    Miggy xx.

    Comment by Miguel Olivo — January 16, 2013 @ 7:26 pm

  10. I feel for ya M’s fans.

    Comment by S a n c h e z — January 16, 2013 @ 7:27 pm

  11. Sending Jaso to the A’s makes me angrier than getting Morse back. Which is saying something…abba zabba, you my only friend

    Comment by JustinSmoakedCheese — January 16, 2013 @ 7:28 pm

  12. Good ol Jackie Zed!

    Comment by fegit — January 16, 2013 @ 7:33 pm

  13. Hey Jack, I’m still available….

    And if you want some extra “outfield” flexibility from your DH my buddies Delmon Young and Johnny Damon are available at the right price.

    Comment by Travis Hafner — January 16, 2013 @ 7:36 pm

  14. One of baseball’s best hitters, as said by Dave Cameron.

    Comment by Jonny Gomes — January 16, 2013 @ 7:36 pm

  15. lol

    Comment by Dan O'Dowd — January 16, 2013 @ 7:45 pm

  16. Umm…..the A’s just gave up one of the best RHP pitching prospects in the sport for John Jaso and in turn, the Nats look wonderful in this trade getting Cole back.

    Comment by Efrim — January 16, 2013 @ 7:46 pm

  17. While it’s true that Teixeira, Granderson, Jeter, AGon, and Soriano were around 116 wRC+ last year, people will think of those guys as much better hitters than that based on their pasts.

    Comment by vignette17 — January 16, 2013 @ 7:51 pm

  18. On the other side, Billy Beane trading a raw-but-ace-ceiling pitcher in Cole for basically a slight improvement at catcher (Jaso/Kottaras vs Norris/Kottaras) is a hugely WTF move too. Cole might have had a bad ERA, but his BABIP was laughably high, he wasn’t what was bad.

    This, along with giving away an everyday OF in Cowgill (watch) has been an unbelievably head-scratching offseason from Beane. I guess Cole+2 for Jaso might make sense in a contention vacuum, but since when is Beane ever in one of those?

    Comment by PL — January 16, 2013 @ 7:55 pm

  19. That awkward moment when you have to let Dave Cameron know that those 12 times (excluding Jaso) that a player with atleast 300 PA, a BB% between 13%-17% and K% between 12%-16% the following year only 1 showed improvement, Chipper maintained and the rest showed a decrease in production

    Carlos Beltran – 106 in 2010 (from 144)
    Edgar Martin – 92 in 2004 (from 142)
    Nick Johnson – 147 in 2006 (up from 138)
    Mike Sweeney – 111 in 2004 (from 123)
    Chipper Jones – 119 in 2011 (from 119)
    Kosuke Fukudome – 98 in 2011 (from 118)
    Chipper Jones – 119 in 2010 (from 116)
    Ryan Klesko – 94 in 2007 (from 115) – Missed 2006
    Bernie Williams – 85 in 2005 (from 110)
    Dan Johnson – struggled for playing time – 144 in AAA though!!
    Ken Griffey Jr – 97 in 2009 (from 99)
    Greg Zaun – 90 in 2008 (from 95)

    awkward….

    Comment by SaveItDC — January 16, 2013 @ 7:55 pm

  20. Cole+two more!!

    Did the Nats GM drug Beane on this? Buvasi’s an idiot, we all knew that, but how the hell does this make sense for anyone?

    Comment by PL — January 16, 2013 @ 7:56 pm

  21. Jack Z continues to build #6org!

    Comment by Dan C — January 16, 2013 @ 7:57 pm

  22. USSM/LL swung and missed on Jack Zduriencik being a good GM. He started out with a big trade (JJ Putz), brought in some stats guys and Mariners had a surprise 85-77 season in 2009. He followed that up with another big trade for Cliff Lee, signed Chone Figgins and exchanged Carlos Silva for Milton Bradley. We were riding high, but all turned out to be an illusion with more bad trades and signings.

    Comment by Jason — January 16, 2013 @ 7:57 pm

  23. “For good reason, too. Billy Beane knows that these kinds of hitters are often better than their former teams realized.”

    …which is why its a sound deal to trade Brad Peacock for him.

    Wait, AJ Cole PLUS two more??? Oh no. You don’t ever, ever do that. Its John Jaso, he was traded ONE year ago for Josh Leuke.

    Comment by PL — January 16, 2013 @ 7:58 pm

  24. I can play LF. So I’ll be talking to either Kevin Towers or Jack Z shortly.

    Comment by tsunamijesus — January 16, 2013 @ 8:02 pm

  25. “Just as we can separate Jason Heyward from a normal outfield prospect despite the fact that he has accomplished nothing at the big league level, I believe we can also evaluate an organization’s ability to put a winning team
    on the field before they do so.”~Dave Cameron, on Seattle’s FO in 2010

    Wrong for the wrong reasons back then. Small sample size (and earnest, if misguided hope) does not an organization make.

    Lee for 0 WAR and a felon
    Morrow for League
    Fister for …
    Jaso for Morse

    Comment by not a #6org post, but kind of — January 16, 2013 @ 8:03 pm

  26. Dead horse is dead.

    Comment by brett — January 16, 2013 @ 8:07 pm

  27. No that list is not basically “a who’s who of baseball’s best hitters.” Maybe it would be if you hadn’t capped wRC+ at 150.

    Comment by El Vigilante — January 16, 2013 @ 8:07 pm

  28. if history channel has taught us anything, besides the culture of ice road trucking, it’s that if we don’t learn from history channel, we’re doomed to repeat history channel.

    Comment by not a #6org post, but kind of — January 16, 2013 @ 8:11 pm

  29. I think you need to reevaluate A.J. Cole. The A’s gave up a pitching prospect who hasn’t graduated A ball for a quality major league bat.

    Comment by El Vigilante — January 16, 2013 @ 8:14 pm

  30. GMZ to you, dick.

    Comment by typical seattle fan — January 16, 2013 @ 8:15 pm

  31. I’m pretty sure Dave knows, considering he wrote this in the article you’re commenting on:

    “Of course, there are some less stellar names on the list. Gregg Zaun had a bunch of seasons similar to this, and he topped out as a part-time catcher who only got 400 or more plate appearances once in his career. Dan Johnson impressed Major League teams so much in 2007 that he spent almost the entire 2008 season in Triple-A, and hasn’t gotten another regular gig with another big league team since. Kosuke Fukudome’s 2010 performance was his last decent one as a big leaguer. And, you may notice that a lot of these seasons came near the end of a long career: Griffey was 38 in 2008, Martinez was 40 in 2003, Chipper was 37/38 in 2009 and 2010, Bernie was 35 in 2004… high walks and good-but-not-great power can often be a sign of a great hitter in decline.

    John Jaso probably isn’t going to keep putting up 140 wRC+ seasons.”

    Comment by Scott — January 16, 2013 @ 8:26 pm

  32. Late entry to “The Contest” Jack Z is coming on strong! Looks to be running neck and neck with what appears to be a punch drunk Dayton Moore.

    Down the stretch they come!

    Comment by The Contest announcer — January 16, 2013 @ 8:39 pm

  33. John Jaso career line: .255/.359/.395 in about 1000 PA’s

    Michael Morse career line: .295/.347/.492 in about 1600 Career PA’s.

    I get that John Jaso is a nice lefty hitting platoon catcher, but his power from last year is probably not sustainable and Morse will help that lineup.

    Of course it does look like Jack Z has thrown defensive metrics out the door, but my gosh, he had to do something about that offense! Morse and Kendrys Morales are a big step in the right direction for the Mariners’ lineup.

    I guess I don’t get all the bridge jumping going on here.

    Comment by DrBGiantsfan — January 16, 2013 @ 8:41 pm

  34. It IS worth noting that Jaso is quite a bit younger than most of those players, so he’s not likely to drop off quite as dramatically.

    Comment by Ian R. — January 16, 2013 @ 8:44 pm

  35. Well at least you’ll be getting basketball back

    Comment by Rob — January 16, 2013 @ 8:48 pm

  36. Dave,

    Your chart of players who accumulated at least 300 PA with a BB% between 13-17%, a K% between 12-16%, and an ISO between .160-.180 includes three players with an ISO > .180, 2003 Edgar (.195), 2005 Nick Johnson (.190) and 2007 Dan Johnson (.183).

    Comment by hk — January 16, 2013 @ 8:52 pm

  37. Fair enough critique. Would it surprise you to know that not cappting wRC+ only adds 11 names? Jaso stays in the top 20 on an uncapped list.

    Comment by BookWorm — January 16, 2013 @ 8:57 pm

  38. I think that contract and years of team control come into consideration, too. The M’s are getting one year of Morse, whereas I believe Jaso is under contract through 2015.

    Comment by BookWorm — January 16, 2013 @ 9:04 pm

  39. Agree that Cole was too much for Beane to give up, a lower-ceiling guy like Peacock would have worked fine. Pretty surprised Billy made this move with that particular piece in it.

    BTW, the upgrade is not Jaso + Kottaras over Kottaras + Norris, Kottaras was DFAd today. So it’s Jaso + Norris over Kottaras + Norris, and Kottaras is much more HR-dependent for value than Jaso, and in the Mausoleum that won’t play as well as Jaso’s gap power will.

    Also, while a .401 BABIP by Ruggiano is clearly not sustainable, it’s important to note that his career BABIP in the minors is a lot higher than the norm. He *could* be the type of ML player that BABIPs in the .350-.360 range and puts up slash lines like .280/.350/.470, which is not bad either. Bill James has him at a shade under that for 2013.

    Comment by Qksilver — January 16, 2013 @ 9:05 pm

  40. Jaso had the role of being a good Major League player.

    Comment by Nik — January 16, 2013 @ 9:11 pm

  41. History Channel also teaches us aliens seeded life on Earth.

    Comment by brett — January 16, 2013 @ 9:17 pm

  42. Puppet*

    Comment by Slats — January 16, 2013 @ 9:21 pm

  43. A small consideration, but come on! John Jaso is a platoon catcher. Again, it’s not a cause for all the bridge jumping we see here.

    I could see Jack Z thinking he has enough pitching to give the Angels and A’s a run for it, if he can get a bit of run support. He may be playing for 2013.

    Comment by DrBGiantsfan — January 16, 2013 @ 9:23 pm

  44. It IS worth noting that his ISO is a pretty big outlier from the rest of Jaso’s career, so it’s unlikely sustainable.

    Comment by DrBGiantsfan — January 16, 2013 @ 9:26 pm

  45. I agree. With Montero on the roster and Zunino waiting in the wings it’s hard to see where Jaso fits in the long term plans of this team, especially considering the logjam at 1B/DH.

    Comment by jpg — January 16, 2013 @ 9:31 pm

  46. Considering Jaso is a lefty and most pitchers are righties, it’s ok if he is a platoon player. And Morse is injury prone to boot.

    Comment by Me — January 16, 2013 @ 9:35 pm

  47. And that is super relevant information, thanks. My main problem is that the group of baseball’s best hitters does not in fact include baseball’s best hitters (Cabrera, Votto, Stanton, etc.)

    Comment by El Vigilante — January 16, 2013 @ 9:42 pm

  48. We agree that it’s a small consideration — I’m just looking for things that might help explain some of the extreme negative reactions to the trade.

    Comment by BookWorm — January 16, 2013 @ 9:43 pm

  49. “A lower ceiling guy like Peacock would’ve worked fine.”

    Considering the Nats gave Cole and Peacock to the A’s just last year, both teams had a fair amount of information on those two players, but it is still not symmetric. If Peacock would’ve worked, he would’ve been involved.

    Comment by El Vigilante — January 16, 2013 @ 9:49 pm

  50. Obviously the A’s like their catchers to know how to take a walk. with a 200 PA minimum among catchers, Kottaras has the highest BB% with 17.7 followed by Jaso with 15.5. And their other catcher, Derek Norris, has a 22.3 BB% in his minor league career.

    Comment by Justin Ruggiano — January 16, 2013 @ 10:04 pm

  51. I think Fangraphs has always been about ignoring what people think in favor of what’s true.

    Comment by Jono — January 16, 2013 @ 10:34 pm

  52. Using the Bill James projections as input, my simulator had John Jaso pegged as the Mariners best option batting leadoff against RHP.

    Comment by Xeifrank — January 16, 2013 @ 10:56 pm

  53. Glad there are still GM’s like Jack Zduriencik, Kevin Towers and Ben Cherington that like to trade with Billy Beane. Getting Parker, Cook and Reddick (and others) for Cahill and Bailey last year was fantastic. I really love that we finally got John Jaso too. He should have always been an A. Welcome John!!!

    Comment by West Coast Hard Baller — January 16, 2013 @ 10:59 pm

  54. The A’s like Peacock if his mechanics hold up. He’s going to contribute this year.

    Comment by West Coast Hard Baller — January 16, 2013 @ 11:00 pm

  55. He is great at getting on base. I wonder how much is OBP and recent power negate his poor fielding? I like the guy a lot and appreciate this piece. If I was a GM or coach, I would be figuring out what the hell I had to do to get him better behind the dish. If he gets that figured out, he could be a really nice player for 4 or 5 more years. Maybe longer with this good eye if he develops more power.

    Comment by Givejonadollar — January 16, 2013 @ 11:01 pm

  56. Jaso crushed A’s pitching this year and in his career, he gets most of his hits on line drives to the outfield, hes great at bat late in the game and with runners on base, hes a lefty hitter, hes under team control for more than one season, he has serviceable defense, handles pitchers well, doesnt complain about being a platoon guy AND hes from california.

    I dont see a down side to replacing Norris with that, Jaso isnt johnny bench but hes a fine backstop to have in a big yard. The real mystery is why the Rays dropped him and signed the worst Molina for millions more dollars.

    Comment by drMiraculous — January 16, 2013 @ 11:46 pm

  57. My point was, if I were the A’s, I hold the line & refuse to include Cole. I tell the Nats we’ll walk away. Jaso is a good player and a better park fit than Kottaras, but I’m not sure he’s that much of an upgrade that I would have given up a higher ceiling guy like Cole, period.

    Comment by Qksilver — January 17, 2013 @ 12:23 am

  58. But don’t the Mariners have the best catching prospect in the game in the upper levels of their farm system? (Given D’Arnaud’s injury history, Zunino seems a better bet.)

    They didn’t need to move Jaso, and perhaps they could have gotten more (though this is one position where defense is to a great extent privileged over offense by major league teams, which might limit Jaso’s trade value) but he’s going to be replaced by 2014, and not much of a factor, considering the team is banking on Montero to be the dh of the future.

    I suppose the real question is why they didn’t take the A’s package back instead of Morse, seeing as how they are likely not winning that much this year. But maybe it has to do with something else, like trying to re-up King Felix soon.

    Comment by Crumpled Stiltskin — January 17, 2013 @ 12:28 am

  59. Make a move for Bruce Chen.

    Comment by samuelraphael — January 17, 2013 @ 12:50 am

  60. A Prospect who JUST turned 21…Reevaluate these nuts and shut your pie hole until you see how he turns out..

    Comment by 4233 — January 17, 2013 @ 1:00 am

  61. HAHA OH WOW THAT’S SO FUNNY AND CLEVER AND ORIGINAL YOU HAVE TALENT AT BEING FUNNY

    Comment by Matt Erickson — January 17, 2013 @ 1:05 am

  62. And my point is that the Nats might just view Cole more favorably than the A’s do (and the opposite applies to Peacock). I think the willingness to include Cole gives us some information on how the A’s value the two players.

    Comment by El Vigilante — January 17, 2013 @ 1:05 am

  63. The consensus answer is that Rays find more value in catcher defense/framing.

    Comment by El Vigilante — January 17, 2013 @ 1:08 am

  64. Wow, I think the Nats really took advantage of two GMs who are heavily discounting the future in favor of the present.

    Cole is the best asset involved in this trade. For Beane to give up an ace-ceiling prospect, raw as he is, for the marginal difference between Jaso and Kottaras is baffling. For Jack Z to prefer Morse over Cole is even worse.

    Luhnow might be the most statistically savvy AL West GM.

    Comment by Craig — January 17, 2013 @ 1:08 am

  65. So many idiots on here thinking A.J. Cole is guaranteed to be some superstar pitcher. Isn’t remotely close to a Bundy or Bauer. Prospects are valuable but there are always those people who overvalue them..-sigh-.

    Comment by reddickulous — January 17, 2013 @ 2:52 am

  66. I count two improvements, Chipper (going from 116 to 119 in 2010) and Nick Johnson

    Comment by My echo and bunnymen — January 17, 2013 @ 2:56 am

  67. Cole was terrible in the second half last season, so I would not give the Nats to much praise. The guy could be hurt or over-rated just as well as return to his old form.

    Comment by NATS Fan — January 17, 2013 @ 4:46 am

  68. right now Peacock > Cole as Cole was dreadful last season in the second half in A ball. Era over 7

    Comment by NATS Fan — January 17, 2013 @ 4:54 am

  69. Ever since READ Moneyball ages ago the A’s have been my second favorite team mainly because Billy Beane makes it hard to root against them. Always the smallest payroll yet relevant more often than not.

    Comment by NATS Fan — January 17, 2013 @ 4:57 am

  70. I was fortunate to watch Cole over here in Htown{nats single A squad} the kid had solid stuff and im happy to see him back…I am a tad troubled by his calif league numbers but hes in good hands again so he will be ok

    Comment by 4233 — January 17, 2013 @ 5:07 am

  71. You guys put way too much emphasis on OBP. What does getting on base have to do with scoring? Jaso is not a fast runner. He’s going to walk and then clog up the basepaths.

    Comment by Joe Morgan — January 17, 2013 @ 6:28 am

  72. Cowgirl was 6th or 7th on the OF depth chart for the A’s seeing how Moss is a converted OF just finding a spot for his bat. Mabey they should get something better back than a scrub 3b, but the A’s are baren at 3rd in the minors and Cowgirl was never going to play for them.

    Comment by Scott — January 17, 2013 @ 6:38 am

  73. Cole was dreadfull to START the year at 7 era with unlucky babip in about a month. Then was demoted and tore it up in all ways for about 3 months.

    Peacock was bad all year in AAA, getting even worse the last month of the season, ending up with a 6 era, but his 4.25 FIP suggested he wasnt THAT bad but Sac is a pitchers park in a hitters leauge.

    The A’s would have gladly gave up Peacock instead of Cole I suspect.

    Comment by Scott — January 17, 2013 @ 6:50 am

  74. With no speed I would think #2 would be a good spot for him.

    Comment by Scott — January 17, 2013 @ 6:53 am

  75. What’s your definition of serviceable defense? -4 average UZR and no arm seems just bad to me, but I really like the bat.

    Comment by Scott — January 17, 2013 @ 6:56 am

  76. Yeah,’cos the A’s sure have a hard time developing young pitchers.

    Comment by wobatus — January 17, 2013 @ 7:08 am

  77. I saw the A’s DFA’d Kottaras. Basically for free isn’t another team going to get the same thing that the A’s are going to receive from Jaso? Maybe not quite as good, like I would not buy a Kia, but I would take 1 for free.

    Also on the Seattle side, I think Casper Wells is at minimum a very useful 4th OF to hit LHP and play above average corner defense. Seems like Phillies could use this type of guy, and I assume he is available pretty cheap.

    Comment by bkgeneral — January 17, 2013 @ 8:07 am

  78. I don’t get it…Was Delmon Young’s asking price too high?

    Comment by delwyn — January 17, 2013 @ 8:12 am

  79. Imagine this sung as an autotuned Jean Ralphio:

    Small sample size is a b-i-t-c-h.

    Comment by delwyn — January 17, 2013 @ 8:17 am

  80. GMZ has been under heavy pressure from fans to GET BIG BATS for the past two off seasons. When they couldn’t sign free agents trade was the only option, which requires the surrender of good value for a similar return. Additionally Morse and his family love the northwest. If he contributes the M’s have a good chance to resign him should they so desire, Kendrys Morales not so much. GMZ was the one who traded a busted bullpen piece for Jaso in the first place, not Billy Beane. With Moreno on hand and Zunino coming on fast Jaso had a limited future with the M’s, they are over stocked with 1B and DH pieces already. There were a lot more considerations involved in this move than knee jerk reactions consider. The fact that the M’s still have probably the best stock of high minors prospects in MLB, plus some other lesser value trade chips, after getting two MOTO bats, tells me GMZ is smarter that some sabre rattlers.

    Comment by maqman — January 17, 2013 @ 8:47 am

  81. To be as bad as ESPN, all this site’s comments need are a force Facebook link to the commenter.

    Comment by MakeitRayn — January 17, 2013 @ 9:27 am

  82. People do see to be missing the fact that if you round up about .010 in each, Morse is a career .300/.350/.500 hitter. He posted a wRC+ of 148 in 2010 and 134 in 2011. Last year, when he was hurt, he took a step back. I’m not saying he’s amazing or anything, but there’s a lot of myopy in these comments, which seem to be incable of seeing beyond 2012.

    Comment by philosofool — January 17, 2013 @ 9:30 am

  83. Jaso…who has thrown out 20% of baserunners (molina throws out 45%), had 5 PB in limited time last year and generally speaking is not an excellent receiver. As well, his baserunning was never great, and certainly won’t be getting better. How much did you want for him? He’s not a guy you want catching 130 games I can tell you that.

    He’s an ok player, but certainly nothing special. As for the logjam in the OF/1b in Seattle well that worked out well for the A’s. It’s competition, the rest will be in the minors or released.

    Comment by Bill — January 17, 2013 @ 9:57 am

  84. 1/3 of all Facebook profiles are fake.

    Moreover, there are better ways of minimizing stupid comments.

    Comment by Google+ User — January 17, 2013 @ 10:11 am

  85. No, I don’t need to re-evaluate Cole, who was not terrible in the slightest, he had a massive BABIP that inflated his ERA, and he dominated A ball as a 20 year old…that’s bad, how? This trade is going to come back to haunt the A’s in a big way, its like the Ethier-Bradley trade except Jaso isn’t even an everyday player.

    Cole always projected as a raw body who needed time to fill out, but had ace potential stuff and who would be in the bigs around 23-24. He was the centerpiece of the Gio deal and the A’s #1 pitching prospect, you never trade that for the minor upgrade with Jaso over Kottaras. If it was a true borderline guy like just Peacock for Jaso I’d be on board with this deal, but Cole+2 is far too much.

    So in a vacuum, that trade is now Gio for Milone, Peacock, Norris + Jaso? I’d rather have Gio, Suzuki + Kottaras to be honest. Gio’s a star, Milone is a solid backend guy. Gio-Anderson-Parker is probably the best top 3 in the AL. I hated the Cowgill deal, I hate how Seth Smith is blocking Chris Carter out of DH, I hate how Beane is viewing Carter as anything other than a DH, and I hate losing Cole for a slightly incremental upgrade with Jaso over Kottaras. Last offseason was Beane’s best ever, but this one leaves a lot to be desired.

    Comment by PL — January 17, 2013 @ 10:16 am

  86. “Cowgirl”? “mabey”? “baren”? Wow.

    I think I see what you’re trying to say, but Cowgill was a guy Beane wanted for a long time, and he got him before he got Cespedes, who blocked him. Its such a waste to give away a great talent for org filler. Expect Cowgill to be an excellent OF with the Mets, his glove is already plus, and his bat will put him in the leadoff/2-hole in New York. The Mets got a very good player for nothing here. Beane is really doing a bad job this offseason.

    I wonder if the Indians would have taken Cole, Trienen, Cowgill+1 for Asdrubal Cabrera? Probably.

    Comment by PL — January 17, 2013 @ 10:23 am

  87. @NATS FAN

    Stop saying “Cole was dreadful”, his ERA was entirely because of a high BABIP, which you should honestly be aware of if you are even on this site.

    Comment by PL — January 17, 2013 @ 10:33 am

  88. Norris did not show ANYTHING that he did in his minor league career, he looked lost out there and this is another poor move by Beane in not keeping Kottaras to platoon with Jaso, and sending Norris down to AAA for more seasoning.

    Jesse Chavez, meanwhile, is still on the 40 man. He’s the worst pitcher in MLB by a lnog way on any teams 40 man. I am very mad at Beane this offseason, whereas I knew he was going to kill it last year. A year ago he made the best moves of his career, this one it seems like he’s trying to reverse it.

    Comment by PL — January 17, 2013 @ 10:36 am

  89. Yeah, Jaso could have been had for Tyson Ross last year, but instead the A’s traded their #1 pitching prospect and a universal top 5 A’s prospect, and 2 more, for a platoon catcher. This trade is almost as bad for the A’s as it is for Seattle.

    Comment by PL — January 17, 2013 @ 10:38 am

  90. Yawn

    Comment by wjylaw — January 17, 2013 @ 10:39 am

  91. Norris isnt being replaced, Kottaras is.

    What’s the difference between Kottaras and Jaso? Like, a very slight improvement? This trade gets worse the more I think about it. Cole is going to be a beast.

    Comment by PL — January 17, 2013 @ 10:40 am

  92. Agreed, Beane really did make a terrible deal here.

    Comment by PL — January 17, 2013 @ 10:40 am

  93. AJ Cole is 21 in Low A ball. When he went up to high-A, he got lit up so he’s repeating low A.

    Draw your own conclusions on his candidacy for “one of the best prospects in the sport.”

    Comment by Narra — January 17, 2013 @ 10:42 am

  94. AJ Cole, Collin Cowgill, Blake Treinen & PTBNL should probably get you a lot more than John Jaso & Jefry Marte, shouldn’t it?

    Beane has lost it.

    Comment by PL — January 17, 2013 @ 10:48 am

  95. Guys, I feel like you’re all overreacting.

    Comment by Eminor3rd — January 17, 2013 @ 10:54 am

  96. 3 years of John Jaso for a pitching prospect (no matter how highly regarded) that has not graduated A ball seems to be a pretty smart move. TINSTAAPP, anyone?

    I have no feelings one way or the other with A.J. Cole. But he is nowhere near a sure thing. John Jaso is much more likely to provide some value. And the fact that the A’s were willing to give up Cole might give us some information.

    Comment by El Vigilante — January 17, 2013 @ 11:26 am

  97. Of what are you basing this “Cole is going to be a beast” assessment? The rate of attrition is relevant here.

    Comment by El Vigilante — January 17, 2013 @ 11:29 am

  98. Thank you.

    Comment by El Vigilante — January 17, 2013 @ 11:30 am

  99. You may think you’re available, Hafner, but you are going to the Rays.

    Comment by Baltar — January 17, 2013 @ 12:19 pm

  100. DrB, he may also be playing for his job. I suspect that in this game, next season is more important than the following two.

    Comment by Baltar — January 17, 2013 @ 12:33 pm

  101. A good-hitting, lefty-hitting catcher fits in anywhere.

    Comment by Baltar — January 17, 2013 @ 12:35 pm

  102. TINSTAAPP

    Comment by Tim_the_Beaver — January 17, 2013 @ 12:40 pm

  103. Especially when they are pitchers who haven’t surpassed low A yet.

    Comment by Baltar — January 17, 2013 @ 12:41 pm

  104. Look at the Rays on your criteria and re-consider.

    Comment by Baltar — January 17, 2013 @ 12:42 pm

  105. Absolutely correct. Those speedy players behind Jaso could easily run 180 feet faster than Jaso can run 90 feet.

    Comment by Baltar — January 17, 2013 @ 12:44 pm

  106. Oh please.

    Do you realize that Jaso bats left-handed? So how would he have platooned with the left-hand hitting Kottaras? Riddle me that.

    Oh, and funny, I seem to recall you complaining quite a bit about Beane’s moves last offseason. This is the same shtick you’ve been pulling since your Athletics Nation days, before they finally banned you for this sort of revisionist history and general ignorance. Stop. Please? It’d be nice if these comments could be free of confirmed pathogical liars.

    Comment by Derek — January 17, 2013 @ 2:02 pm

  107. My comment says “Rays”, re: drMiraculous stating that “The real mystery is why the Rays dropped him and signed the worst Molina for millions more dollars.”

    Comment by El Vigilante — January 17, 2013 @ 2:09 pm

  108. Free to acquire, but still have to pay his contract.

    Comment by El Vigilante — January 17, 2013 @ 2:10 pm

  109. So it’s quite common for MLB “beasts” to bomb out of High-A and have to spend a second season in Low-A, huh? Most pitchers who get demoted in A-ball wind up as “beasts”, then? Or only AJ Cole because you say so?

    Just curious, in all of your countless hours of researching this, how many pitchers can you point to that couldn’t hack High-A, had to repeat Low-A, and then went on to be “beasts” in MLB? Surely it must be quite a few to make assertions like that…

    Comment by Derek — January 17, 2013 @ 2:13 pm

  110. I never complained about the big 3 trades on AN, so what is it the? Reality was I was a little nervous over the Gio one but I liked it because of Cole, mostly. Adored the Bailey+Cahill deals from day one.

    I was banned from AN after the bullies took over, and good riddance, that site is full of pathetic trolls like you. I mean wow, “Derek” I have no clue who you are but you might want to reel in your vague threats there. No, I will never stop posting my opinions about baseball. You can “stop” reading them.

    “Pathological liars” = most of the trolling haters on AN who twist words as if their lives depended on it, and act as if we are in a court of law when we are talking about baseball opinions. If anyone pulled that crap in a bar, they’d be walking home with a black eye. Have some compassion and empathy, and quit living like you’re on 4chan.

    Comment by PL — January 17, 2013 @ 2:29 pm

  111. Cole’s BABIP was very high and he’s turning 21 THIS year. The fact that he’s going to be a beast 5 years from now still means he’s going to be a beast.

    And ‘Derek” if youre pathetically trolling from from AN…wasnt that the site that told me AJ Griffin was 4 years away and wouldnt be anything other than a junky 5th starter? I was right about his skyrocketing climb to the bigs then and I’m going to be right on Cole. Its obvious to anyone who looks over his profile, watches him pitch and looks at the right numbers, but if youre from AN you are just going to hate whatever I say, even when Im right, and you should probably not post here.

    Comment by PL — January 17, 2013 @ 2:33 pm

  112. Name anyone who said Cole was supposed to be at AA or AAA this year? He’s 21. He will be at AAA in 2-3 years and in the bigs in 3-4. Every single profile on him says “he has excellent stuff already but his body needs to fill out”…which is exactly what is happening right now.

    Fine, you want to judge a 20 year old who didnt make it out of A ball? That’s on you. I’ll be more patient and say that Beane gave away his best pitching prospect for a platoon catcher, and has traded away enough this winter to actually have bought in an impact plater, but he hasn’t received any impact players in return.

    Comment by PL — January 17, 2013 @ 2:37 pm

  113. AJ Cole was the centerpiece of the Gio Gonzalez deal. Gio Gonzalez is a true ace, which are rare. AJ Cole was the A’s #1 pitching prospect, and he was traded in a win-now move for a platoon catcher, who could have been had for a lot less, and was had for a whole lot less one year ago. This move only helps the A’s improve slightly. I’d rather Beane signed AJ Pierzynski than trade Cole+Treinen for Jaso.

    Comment by PL — January 17, 2013 @ 2:41 pm

  114. haha, that’s a self-interested untruthful statement.

    Comment by Bagman — January 17, 2013 @ 4:11 pm

  115. #6 Org

    Comment by DA RAP GUY — January 17, 2013 @ 4:13 pm

  116. Lunhow worked for McKinsey. He is going to spend the next 2 years telling the Astros they need to centralize operations and then the following 2 years telling the Astros they need to decentralize their operations.

    Comment by Aaron — January 17, 2013 @ 7:01 pm

  117. Where are these free Kias you speak of?

    Comment by Aaron — January 17, 2013 @ 7:04 pm

  118. aren’t you ignoring what seattle got Jaso for?

    Maybe seattle’s GM saw this as a Morse for “Nothing”, exchange.

    Comment by bSpittle — January 17, 2013 @ 7:38 pm

  119. It IS worth noting, Giants fan, that Dave mentioned that.

    Comment by chuckb — January 17, 2013 @ 9:21 pm

  120. Good lord, this meme is so fucking old. Are you seriously incapable of coming ipnwith something even halfway original. It wasn’t even funny a year ago. Move the tuck on. Seriously.

    Comment by chuckb — January 17, 2013 @ 9:25 pm

  121. .Right, Baltar. It’s pretty easy to see where he fits into the team’s short run

    Comment by chuckb — January 17, 2013 @ 9:28 pm

  122. Speed isn’t a necessity for the leadoff spot. This isn’t 1985.

    Comment by chuckb — January 17, 2013 @ 9:29 pm

  123. It’s pretty clear you don’t know much about Jeff Luhnow.

    Comment by chuckb — January 17, 2013 @ 9:31 pm

  124. This. Thanks. He’s a long way from being major league ready.

    Comment by chuckb — January 17, 2013 @ 9:32 pm

  125. I was responding to Ian R, not Dave.

    Comment by DrBGiantsfan — January 18, 2013 @ 1:17 am

  126. I would say that many people commenting here hold “potential” in higher regard that the A’s do when it comes to prospects. The A’s know that they can develop pitchers and find pitchers with one eye open and both hands tied behind their back. Cole may end up being a #2 or a bust. Peacock may be a #3 or a bust. None of us know. What we do know is that Jaso is a very nice piece to platoon against right-handers and may very well be a key piece to keeping the A’s contenders in the AL West again this year.

    Comment by West Coast Hard Baller — January 18, 2013 @ 4:27 pm

  127. The A’s actually havent developed any pitchers, Parker, Anderson, Colon, Milone, McCarthy, Blackley are not home grown. Griffin & Straily are the only two right now. Sonny Gray might be in the mix later on, but he might be best suited as a closer. Blevins is ok. Does Doolittle count? Not really, he basically rolled out of bed one day and said “oh yeah, i forgot i can throw 100mph, i should probably do that instead of hitting”.

    Unless you mean “developed” at the big league level, but that’s not what Cole is. Cole was the most highly-lauded pitching prospect the A’s had since Ynoa.

    Comment by PL — January 21, 2013 @ 11:10 am

  128. I don’t really see the comparison between Hatteberg and Jaso.

    I think that Jaso is much better known that you assume. He’s had a couple of good years now, and he cost the As a top 100 prospect who was recently a big piece in a trade for an ace.

    Hatteberg seems like a lot more of a buy-low candidate to me, and a position risk. Based on their public statements it seems like the As might be moving Jaso back to C, rather than away from it.

    Comment by Ted Nelson — January 23, 2013 @ 9:44 pm

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