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  1. Great signing!

    Comment by A Nationals Fan — January 22, 2013 @ 4:01 pm

  2. Um, Delmon Young has played his entire career in LF, and I believe Brown is slated to play RF for the Phillies. And they already had a platoon partner for Brown in John Mayberry.

    So, the more relevant question is whether it’s better to give the LF job to Delmon Young or Darin Ruf, isn’t it?

    Comment by Davis — January 22, 2013 @ 4:02 pm

  3. I’ve seen the “bad news for Dom Brown” thing on twitter and now on here and I agree with Davis that this makes no sense. Brown is a lefty who is slated to play RF for the Phils. This affects Darin Ruf a heck of a lot more than it does Dom Brown. Brown is still going to play the majority of the games in RF and may even get some time in LF against RHP.

    Comment by Jim — January 22, 2013 @ 4:10 pm

  4. lol

    Comment by Jaack — January 22, 2013 @ 4:13 pm

  5. Correct, Young has no bearing on Brown. Brown is either a full-time RF or he’ll be sharing it with Mayberry.

    Comment by nik — January 22, 2013 @ 4:16 pm

  6. That’s not entirely true. In ’06 and ’07, Young was primarily a rightfielder, with a few games in center (hard to believe now). Since ’08, though, Young has only played left. Well, he’s stood in leftfield while holding a glove.

    Comment by Derb — January 22, 2013 @ 4:19 pm

  7. This is adding by not subtracting. If he hadn’t signed Delmon, Ruben may well have pulled the trigger on the darkly hinted trade of Brown for Alfonso Soriano. He always seems to think someone else’s guys are better than his guys, regardless of the evidence. In this case, he thinks Young is better than Ruf.

    Comment by CookieRojas16 — January 22, 2013 @ 4:21 pm

  8. Giving both of us some breathing room!

    Comment by A Braves Fan — January 22, 2013 @ 4:24 pm

  9. Amaro apparently says that Young is playing RF. Just to clear that up…

    Comment by Timothy — January 22, 2013 @ 4:25 pm

  10. Nevermind. Now Rube is saying that he’ll play RF. This is all about Charlie Manuel and his dislike/distrust in Brown. Oh well. 2008 was fun.

    Comment by Jim — January 22, 2013 @ 4:26 pm

  11. The Phillies have now acquired the #1 and #5 worst every day position players in terms of WAR last season. Michael (-1.4) and Delmon (-.7) Young. They should call KC about Francoeur.

    Comment by James — January 22, 2013 @ 4:28 pm

  12. I believe that’s correct.

    Comment by china_dave — January 22, 2013 @ 4:33 pm

  13. So you guys would think. But you guys aren’t considering Ruben Amaro:

    “Ruben says ideally he’d like to see Delmon be everyday RF. if so, Domonic Brown and Darin Ruf will platoon in leftfield”

    Comment by EricL — January 22, 2013 @ 4:38 pm

  14. 4 worst players from 2011 with their 2012 WAR totals:

    Raul Ibanez (-1.3 WAR). 2012: 1.1 WAR
    Alex Rios (-0.8 WAR). 2012: 4.3 WAR
    Juan Pierre (-0.5 WAR). 2012: 1.7 WAR
    Aubrey Huff (-0.4 WAR). 2012: (-0.1) WAR

    As for Francoeur, he’s a prime bounceback candidate. His xBABIP was 35 points lower than his actual BABIP. His UZR was the worst of his career. If you regress his babip and give him credit for being a 0 UZR defender–hardly a stretch, see his profile page– he should be worth 2-3 more WAR than he was in 2012.

    Comment by frenchy — January 22, 2013 @ 4:38 pm

  15. What a gigantic mistake if they don’t play Darin Ruf full time.

    That’s bordering on criminal.

    “Babe” Ruf’s should get a legit chance to slug.

    Comment by BubbaNoTrubba — January 22, 2013 @ 4:38 pm

  16. Bigger question is what happens with Ruf. Brown was never really a left fielder. He was just moved there to make room for Pence. Manuel has said several times tho, that he likes Ruf… So we’ll see. Clearly the plan is to platoon at least one OF spot, at any rate.

    Comment by KM — January 22, 2013 @ 4:42 pm

  17. Brown has a -22 UZR/150 in RF and a -5/150 in LF with the bulk of his negative value coming from range (and arm). SSS caveat, but it’s it better to bury him in LF if he must play?

    Comment by cfib — January 22, 2013 @ 4:43 pm

  18. Wow, I didn’t see that.

    Comment by KM — January 22, 2013 @ 4:44 pm

  19. I agree. If this means we dodged Raul Ibanez, Alfonso Soriano, and Vernon Wells, then its only a minor blow.

    I do also fear that he is going to be a regular against righties.

    Delmon’s interesting personality leaves the potential for some significant fireworks in Philly next year. Hopefully, he can prevent himself from uttering ethnic slurs in Philadelphia dining/drinking establishments.

    Comment by Jaybo Shaw — January 22, 2013 @ 4:47 pm

  20. Call me crazy, but I kind of like the whole platoon thing they could potentially go with:

    Ruf: 1.326 (SSS) OPS vs LH (.500 higher than vs RH)
    Brown: 0.746 OPS vs RH (.125 higher than vs LH)

    Young: .824 OPS vs LH (.190 higher than vs RH)
    Nix: .744 OPS vs RH (.225 higher than vs LH)

    They’ll be statues out there, so defensively it’s a big question mark. But then, they do have a rangy CF, so maybe that helps.

    Comment by jcxy — January 22, 2013 @ 4:50 pm

  21. We’ll see how two players whose defensive short comings were largely masked by their ability to hide in the DH slot do with everday fielding.

    Comment by James — January 22, 2013 @ 4:58 pm

  22. Soriano will almost certainly be better this year then Young or Brown, and he’ll probably be better next year too. For a team that is nearing the end of their competitive window, I’m not so sure that trading Brown for Soriano wouldn’t have been the proper move. Especially if the Cubs would have kicked in a bunch of cash.

    Comment by JayT — January 22, 2013 @ 5:06 pm

  23. They already have John Mayberry to do everything that Young does, only slightly better. This signing is pointless.

    Comment by abreutime — January 22, 2013 @ 5:09 pm

  24. Maybe competition is a good thing for a borderline guy like Mayberry, Jr…?

    Comment by bflaff — January 22, 2013 @ 5:18 pm

  25. This isn’t horrible if it pushes the Phillies to platoon everyone who really needs a platoon (like, say, if Mayberry plays 1st against lefties.) but we all know this wont happen. This deal seems more likely to hurt the Phil’s than help the, given their proclivities towards being dumb.

    Comment by Bodhizefa — January 22, 2013 @ 5:27 pm

  26. I’m a long way from a Frenchy fan, but it’s worthwhile to note that, regarding his awful defensive year in 2012, he played virtually all season with a bad foot – something that’s pretty much unknown by everybody. So yes, defensively, assuming health, he is a good candidate for regression to the mean.

    Comment by rbt — January 22, 2013 @ 5:35 pm

  27. Yeah, because most fringy-platoon players slack off because of a lack of competition.

    Comment by EricL — January 22, 2013 @ 5:39 pm

  28. Upon further reflection, I don’t think this means significantly fewer ABs for Mayberry, at least not early in the year. I’d wager Ruf will start in AAA and Mayberry will get 200 ABs to open the year in LF, mostly against LH. If one of: Ruf tears up AAA (again)/Young stinks/Mayberry stinks happens, then they’ll adjust (Ruf promotion). Otherwise, cheap depth is ok in my book even if it’s redundant.

    Comment by jcxy — January 22, 2013 @ 6:06 pm

  29. This may be true, but defending a move by saying “Our GM would have done something even stupider if he had not made this stupid move” is not necessarily a ringing endorsement.

    Comment by RationalSportsFan — January 22, 2013 @ 6:08 pm

  30. Our GM is Ruben Amaro, its the best we can do.

    Comment by agam22 — January 22, 2013 @ 6:18 pm

  31. If the Phillies use Young wisely this might end up not being a disaster. Knowing the Phillies, this move will almost certainly end up being a disaster.

    Comment by agam22 — January 22, 2013 @ 6:20 pm

  32. But you guys haven’t seen the balls to the wall non-mandatory workouts Young has been doing the last two months. Man is he going to arrive in Philly trim and mean and ready I go.

    Comment by Bab — January 22, 2013 @ 7:24 pm

  33. Sorry about the litany of typos. Typing from an iPad mini is not the easiest of all things.

    Comment by Bodhizefa — January 22, 2013 @ 7:56 pm

  34. With every new signing by Ruben this off season the Phillies are getting YOUNGer.

    Comment by BRAVESFAN — January 22, 2013 @ 8:16 pm

  35. So does anybody else out there believe that the Phillies offense and defense are both going to be pretty lousy, and that the Phillies are going to lose 90+ ballgames? Who are this team’s four best hitters, in order? Who are this team’s four best defenders, in order? The Mets traded away the Cy Young Award winner this offseason yet it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if they finished ahead of Philly in the standings. Oh, well, this team had one heck of a run, so you can never take that away from them (although RAJ has tried!).

    Comment by Robbie G. — January 22, 2013 @ 9:08 pm

  36. To paraphrase Bill James, if anyone is playing a worse LF than Delmon Young, they’re doing it with a pitchfork. He’ll allow two for every one he drives in. Lonnie Smith looked like Mays compared to this guy.

    Comment by Mike P — January 22, 2013 @ 10:08 pm

  37. It really depends on health and whether Cholly uses OF platoons properly. If they have enormous health issues like last year then they could lose 90 games, but if they stay healthy they could easily win 90 games.

    As for good hitters, a full year of Utley and Howard and properly used platoons should make them a league average offense at the very least. They also have elite level defenders up the middle and behind the plate so I doubt it will be too big an issue.

    They also have arguably one of the better back end bullpens in the league with Paps – Adams – Bastardo (ignore his ERA, his peripherals are outstanding).

    They finished .500 last year playing most of the season with 4 position starters, 2 starters, and 4 bullpen guys out, replaced mostly with dreck like Wigginton and AAA fodder. It would take a whole lot of bad luck to be worse than they were last year.

    Comment by Jim — January 22, 2013 @ 10:19 pm

  38. I dont think its such a bad signing. Young finally gets a change to play in a hitter friendly ball park after hitting in Minnesota and Detroit since 2007. Young’s stats in 2010 were pretty solid – never walked often – but his power in 2010 was solid – translate that to Philly and i think you have something. DelYoung is MUCH better than mayberry. when mayberry finally played every day last year his stats plummeted. and dont get me wrong, i dont love young at all – but at this price its a bargain. plus his assets will play well in a stadium like philly. now to the extent that mayberry keep ruf down – i think thats a problem. ruf needs a chance – and he still might get it with young in there – but its not clear.

    Comment by Simon Daillie — January 22, 2013 @ 10:35 pm

  39. It makes sense if you’re putting anyone other than Delmon Young out there to “field” out in right.

    Comment by Franco — January 22, 2013 @ 10:58 pm

  40. Man, you try to give a team the benefit of the doubt and then, per MLBTR:

    “General Manager Ruben Amaro told reporters that they plan to use Young as their starting right fielder, tweets Matt Gelb of the Philadelphia Inquirer.”

    Comment by Rick — January 22, 2013 @ 11:36 pm

  41. My favorite thing about this signing is that Delwyn Young signed a minor league deal with the Nats and has the same career OBP as Delmon Young.

    Comment by Max — January 22, 2013 @ 11:49 pm

  42. DelYoung is MUCH better than mayberry.


    Mayberry: .256/.316/.439, .328 wOBA, 105 wRC+, 2.9 WAR
    Young: .267/.299/.403, .305 wOBA, 89 wRC+, -0.3 WAR

    Comment by EricL — January 23, 2013 @ 12:00 am

  43. You mean an iPhone?

    Comment by My echo and bunnymen — January 23, 2013 @ 12:58 am

  44. 0.1% chance this is the first step in a colossal mistake.

    Comment by Xeifrank — January 23, 2013 @ 2:39 am

  45. Compared to Delmon Young, a Sikh convert jazz pianist looks like Willie Mays?

    Comment by gnomez — January 23, 2013 @ 3:24 am

  46. Do you think its possible either Brown or Mayberry gets traded??

    Comment by 4233 — January 23, 2013 @ 4:22 am

  47. I think we know that eventually this is heading towards Darin Ruf in LF and Delmon Young in RF. Domonic Brown has had two relatively poor showings in 200+ PA samples in 2011 & 2012 and while he’s shown some things that fangraphs’ readers like (good plate discipline, BB%) he hasn’t shown the traditional stats (BA, RBIs) that the Phillies like. While it’s troubling that the phillies seem to allocate parts of the 170+ million dollar pay roll based on statistics like RBIs and Saves, i think the most troubling part of this transaction is the Delmon to RF thing. The phillies have said they’re moving him back to RF because he’s more comfortable in RF and that their reports had him better in RF than LF. Given that Young hasn’t played RF since 2007, the implication seems to be that the phillies are making roster decisions based off of 5-year old scouting reports, which if true is more damning than the outdated statistical approach.

    Comment by Matt — January 23, 2013 @ 6:56 am

  48. The issue is that Charlie Manuel is the manager. He’s not a proponent of platoons, and has shown that he favors older players over younger players (at least recently). I think the discord between Amaro and Manuel is going to be apparent early in the season, when Charlie is playing Young everyday despite .270/.295/.400 (and worse against RHP). I just don’t understand this move because Amaro is giving Manuel the opportunity to block the development of Brown and Ruf with huge opportunity cost for an aging team.

    Comment by AndySloanie — January 23, 2013 @ 10:09 am

  49. The price isn’t a bargain considering there are incentives. The $750K is the minimum that he’ll make. Furthermore, why do you think Young is much better than Mayberry? There’s no evidence supporting that claim.

    Comment by AndySloanie — January 23, 2013 @ 10:14 am

  50. I generally can’t stand the whole “baseball-is-played-on-the-field-not-on-a-computer” mantra, but everyone that says Delmon Young is a good deal at $750,000 deserves to hear it. They give us geeks a bad name.

    Look, I can go to the local hardware store and get all kinds of great deals on a whole bunch of things. They’re having a clearance, and it’s 75% off windshield wipers! The one problem is that I don’t have a car.

    The Phillies don’t need Delmon Young.

    Now the word is that they want to use him as their regular RF. Cite Dom Brown’s negative UZR or whatever it is all you want, but believe me, Delmon Young is worse. He’s worse than everyone. Remember Pete Incaviglia, Philadelphia? Now imagine if he couldn’t hit.

    Cannot hit anyone but left-handers. Flatly refuses to take any pitches. Grounds into as many double plays as he can. Cannot run the bases, even a little. Cannot play field whatsoever. Cannot not go on an anti-semitic rant in front of a hotel at 3am…the list goes on.

    Have fun with one of the worst all-around ballplayers ever.

    Comment by Dan — January 23, 2013 @ 11:27 am

  51. I had seen that news somewhere before reading Dave’s post and wondered what he was talking about. It must have broken after he wrote it.
    I was hoping the Rays would get him as a part-time DH but I knew his ego wouldn’t allow that.
    I wonder if Amaro is blowing smoke or serious. NL teams can hardly spare a roster spot for a pinch-hitter vs. lefties only spot.

    Comment by Baltar — January 23, 2013 @ 12:16 pm

  52. Best shape of his life.

    Comment by Baltar — January 23, 2013 @ 12:22 pm

  53. Well, Phillie still does have that great pitching staff.

    Comment by Baltar — January 23, 2013 @ 12:24 pm

  54. “They’ll be statues out there, so defensively it’s a big question mark.”

    True with the exception of Nix, who is a surprisingly good defender.

    Comment by E-Dub — January 23, 2013 @ 4:28 pm

  55. Oh man

    Comment by CircleChange11 — January 24, 2013 @ 9:57 am

  56. Ha! I see what you did there…

    Comment by Jason B — January 25, 2013 @ 12:11 pm

  57. First, when defense is concerned I can’t just look at stats. I watched every game last year for the Phillies, and saw some promising progress out of Brown in the field (and at the plate). He still needs to work on his routes a bit, but I don’t know what you are talking about with regards to his arm, he has a rocket. His range will improve with consistent playing time because it is not a matter of speed, but more with routes, which is teachable.

    Young is an absolute downgrade defensively, no matter what the stats say. I’m also am failing to see any real upgrade at the plate, seeing as though well over half of pitches thrown in the majors are made by righties. We also have to consider the fact that Young has been on a steady decline over the last few years.

    I’m not ready to give up on Brown yet, and truly believe that the Phillies have misused him ever since they saw that he was the top prospect in baseball a few years ago. On top of a bunch of minor injuries, the phillies brass is the reason Brown has not made any real strides in the majors yet. He needs continuity and confidence, neither of which come with being ushered up and back from triple A and the majors. He has never even had a HALF of a year continuously in the majors, so how can we truly expect him to succeed?

    I am totally against this move, for the simple fact that this could be the last straw in Brown’s development, because if he doesn’t get his REAL chance this year to succeed, he may never recover mentally and never fulfill the potential he has. In my opinion, the upgrade against LHP’s for one year is simply not worth the future implications. Plus, the minor upgrade against lefties will not make or break the phillies ’13 season, the Phillies season will depend on pitching and the infielders staying healthy and productive. Delmon young is inconsequential,and, if anything, a detriment.

    Comment by phan analysis — January 25, 2013 @ 4:29 pm

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