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  1. If the Reds insist on holding on to Votto, what do they do with Yonder Alonso? Isn’t he considered close to ready?

    Comment by glp — November 16, 2009 @ 10:28 am

  2. I was thinking the same thing glp

    Why not move votto now and get a ton back for him … like you said in the article, he’s closer to a .370 wOBA than .418

    Comment by W. Palm Bch — November 16, 2009 @ 10:30 am

  3. When Alonso’s knocking on the door, Votto will be moved to LF, a position he has had some experience in both the minors and majors. IMO, Votto is a better left-fielder than a first baseman. Alonso goes to first, and Votto completes a very formidable outfield of Bruce, Votto, Stubbs, Dickerson, and Balentien. It’s not like the Reds are so full of talent that Votto and Alonso can’t be on the same field. As a Reds fan, I for one, INSIST that Jocketty hold onto both. Why wouldn’t he?

    Comment by wanderinredsfan — November 16, 2009 @ 10:43 am

  4. Dusty’s crushed, why must Walt Jocketty foil his noble plot of keeping his bases as unclogged as possible?

    How’s Willy Taveras supposed to steal bases?

    Comment by Joe R — November 16, 2009 @ 11:11 am

  5. On the subject of his BABIP, in 2009 he posted a super low 1.4% IFFB rate, which plays a role in his high BABIP. If he can maintain this going forward, along with his good LD%, he could continue to post some of the best BABIP numbers in the league.

    Comment by Bobby Boden — November 16, 2009 @ 12:16 pm

  6. Cordero is through 2011 with Club option/million dollar buy-out. Both Arroyo and Harang are 2011 club options. It is inaccurate to call that money guaranteed

    http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tj1FG9GPVGFzrJykhM94ogw&output=html

    Comment by Trenchtown — November 16, 2009 @ 12:24 pm

  7. Woot Woot! Love articles on members of my fantasy team. Speaking of which, did anyone else have him in a head-to-head league? He basically won the two week final for me all by himself.

    Comment by Logan — November 16, 2009 @ 12:40 pm

  8. Thanks, I keep thinking it’s 2009 for some reason, and it was late.

    Going to edit now.

    Comment by Jack Moore — November 16, 2009 @ 1:05 pm

  9. wanderinredsfan…If the Reds did decide to trade Votto what would you look to receive back? What do the Reds need to contend going forward into 2011?

    Comment by dan l — November 16, 2009 @ 1:31 pm

  10. I wouldn’t trade Votto until after another two seasons, at the earliest. I can’t even fathom adequate compensation for him at this point in time, because like the article so succinctly points out, he is one of the most valuable players in baseball right now. Lincecum? Wieters? Andrus? I dunno.

    However, if we limit our discussion to what the Reds need for 2011, then I think it’s obvious that the Reds need a clear number one starter, a respectable SS, and perhaps a top notch catcher. More importantly, they need their top prospects to pan out. Bruce, Bailey, Cueto, and Volquez need to live up to expectations, and the next core of prospects (Frazier, Stubbs, Cozart, Francisco, Wood) will likely need to be solid contributors if the Reds are to be competitive by 2011.

    It goes without saying that at least a couple of the higher priced veterans (Arroyo, Harang, Phillips, Cordero) will need to be moved before then to make room for future arbitration raises and/or payroll flexability towards signing future pieces. Unfortunately, I think the only one with adequate value is the one I’m most hesitant in trading, Phillips. Fortunately, the Reds have numerous in-house options at second. If I was running things, I’d try to land a top-notch catching prospect ready to make the jump to the big leagues ASAP.

    Comment by wanderinredsfan — November 16, 2009 @ 2:40 pm

  11. Sadly, catching prospects don’t exactly grow from trees. Though I do agree with you that Votto, and more importantly the fact that he is cost controlled, is just too valuable to trade. I mean really, what type of a package would be needed to land a 3-4 win player who makes next to nothing. Even if he projects to be a below average LF he would still probably be more valuable to the Reds there than the prospects that most teams would want to give up. (Of course that is assuming that Yonder develops into a viable option at first, which despite his talent remains an if)

    Comment by Diaz — November 16, 2009 @ 4:43 pm

  12. The correct more for the Reds is to offer Votto a contract worth ~$7M/year over the next four years, with a good club option on the fifth, let’s say $15M. Maybe his agent tells him not to take it, because it is less than he would get during the same span through FA and arbitration. I’m not very good saying what players will and won’t take, but this seems like a great deal for the Reds and a perfectly reasonable deal for Votto to take.

    Comment by Fresh Hops — November 16, 2009 @ 4:52 pm

  13. You know what’s interesting? Votto was drafted as a catching prospect. It’s too bad Votto couldn’t have developed behind the plate.

    Comment by wanderinredsfan — November 16, 2009 @ 5:07 pm

  14. Eric Hinske on young player contracts. Evan Longoria thanks you.

    Comment by Joe R — November 16, 2009 @ 5:25 pm

  15. I have it on good authority that even in highschool he was a terrible defensive catcher.

    Comment by Aaron/YYZ — November 16, 2009 @ 7:07 pm

  16. “I wouldn’t trade Votto until after another two seasons, at the earliest. I can’t even fathom adequate compensation for him at this point in time, because like the article so succinctly points out, he is one of the most valuable players in baseball right now. Lincecum? Wieters? Andrus? I dunno.”

    I’ll disagree. The soonest you trade Votto is after 2010, IF Alonso is ready, and only in the right deal. A more realistic target would be a team that will need a 1st baseman (definitely not Texas). Maybe Tampa, who are always concerned with the budget and have Carlos Pena becoming a FA after 2010, for someone like Wade Davis or Hellickson plus at least one GOOD prospect. Or maybe the Mets. But those three (Linc, Wieters, & Andrus) probably won’t be dealt anytime soon.

    “It goes without saying that at least a couple of the higher priced veterans (Arroyo, Harang, Phillips, Cordero) will need to be moved before then to make room for future arbitration raises and/or payroll flexability towards signing future pieces. Unfortunately, I think the only one with adequate value is the one I’m most hesitant in trading, Phillips. Fortunately, the Reds have numerous in-house options at second. If I was running things, I’d try to land a top-notch catching prospect ready to make the jump to the big leagues ASAP.”

    I’d be careful to not make their finances sound worse than they are. Arroyo and Harang could both be gone after 2010 if the Reds chose to not pick up their options and it will be alot easier to deal Cordero when he has only one year left on his deal. The 2010 budget will be tight but afterwards they should be fine. I think that Phillips is the least likely to be moved unless Frazier shows that he really can be another Kent. But I bet a contender would have interest in Arroyo next June/July with his track record of doing better in the 2nd half. If they trade Arroyo mid-season and trade Cordero after 2010 for the best mix of talent/cost savings they can get and then don’t pick up the option for Harang they’ll have ALOT of payroll room to add the final touches for a 2011 contender.

    Comment by dan — November 17, 2009 @ 7:35 am

  17. I’m not sure they need to sign him to a long-term deal just yet but when/if they do I doubt it will include paying him $15m in one of the years. The Reds have never paid a player that much, for one year, and I don’t think it will happen anytime soon. (I don’t think they need to either.)

    Comment by dan — November 17, 2009 @ 7:40 am

  18. dan said: “I’d be careful to not make their finances sound worse than they are. Arroyo and Harang could both be gone after 2010 if the Reds chose to not pick up their options…”

    Dan,
    Why would Walt let Arroyo or Harang walk without trying to trade them first? Doesn’t make much sense, so long as someone is willing to take on their contract. Therefore, I think Walt will most definetely have to trade one of the tow (or Cordero) before 2011. The only other feasible option, IMO, is to re-work either players contracts before 2011 at a much discounted cost. I don’t think that will happen.

    Comment by wanderinredsfan — November 17, 2009 @ 8:12 am

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