Classic. Its pretty clear to me the Leon’s are phonies, but Loria has reached caricature status for me.
Comment by Billion Memes — March 21, 2013 @ 5:22 pm
I feel bad for the taxpayers that got taken advantage of to fund that stadium. Absolutely awful and a disgrace to baseball. Those poor people may not even be baseball fans and were forced into paying for the stadium on a back room deal between Loria and local politicians. Such a shame.
Alex, I actually don’t see any problem with them using the word ‘alleged’ in their statement. They show a picture in one of the links you provided, and it doesn’t seem to have any impact on the view of the field. Sure, it impacts the view of the ground a few feet from the seats – but it’s not like the padding is blocking the field. If you sit back in those seats, you can see the field perfectly fine. ‘Alleged’ seems to be an appropriate word in this situation, as it’s pretty clear that the fans are just using this as a loophole to get out of their tickets.
The Washington NFL team gained some notoriety after suing fans a year or two ago. Then they traded for the #2 pick, drafted RG3, and then all those sorts of troubles have mostly gone away. Obviously Loria needs to find the RG3 of Miami. I imagine he’ll have some high draft picks in his future, at least!
There may be vanishingly few Marlins fans now, but there actually were some once upon a time. There are a lot of people in their 20s who grew up watching Jeff Conine. The team has patiently and methodically driven them away.
Problem with this plan is that the time from draft to making an impact in MLB is so much longer. I don’t know the Marlins farm system but if the youngsters that will be part of the next “core” aren’t in it now, those fans have at least two years to wait before they’re good.
You have to think about where the photo is being taken from. (It’s important to note that those photos, which I’ve seen linked in every news story, were taken by Jan Leon herself.) Judging by the angle of the concrete, it looks to me like the photographer was braced against the wall as she took the photo, rather than reclining back in her chair. If she were reclining in her chair, she may have had trouble seeing part of the field.
I’ll check out the video once I’m home from work, as it’ll be interesting to see the billboard with her in the seat. I assumed that she took the picture, and that it was a worst-case scenario. If I were in her position, I’d sit back in my seat as far as possible when I took the picture, to show how much of an impact it had. I wouldn’t lean against the wall and make it look like there’s no obstruction.
You’re right though; when I look again, it does look like she’s leaning forward to take the picture instead of leaning back.
Stanton is a wonderful player and must be a fan favorite down in Miami, but there is no way he comes close to the impact RG3 has had on football fans in Washington.
There are many reasons for that, the two biggest being the greater impact a single player can have in football compared to baseball and DC’s long-standing love of football and the local team. People may have hated the owner, but they always loved the team. Miami has no such strong bond with the Marlins, as far as I’m aware. There’s also a cultural factor which seems to make RG3 a good fit in Washington, but I think that’s secondary to the other two factors.
MLB forced McCourt to sell because he was threatening to create a bad financial precedent for other teams, crafting a sweetheart low-revenue television deal with Fox in exchange for help with his major debt problems. Considering the ballooning TV deal revenues of recent years, Selig couldn’t allow the Dodgers to set that precedent. Loria isn’t hurting anyone outside South Florida, and Fred Wilpon isn’t hurting anyone outside New York, I doubt they’ll be forced out any time soon.
Generally speaking the Miami Marlins are bad for baseball. Its a shame they have won two world series when legit teams whose ownership actually care about baseball like the Cubs have not won in 100+ years.
The Miami Marlins should be sold and re-located. Who does a fire-sale on a team that wins the world series. Who builds a new stadium with tax-dollars and fools the public in building a contender to just fold.
Marlins be gone. Worst franchise in MLB and probably all of sports.
Is anyone else amused by the “We’ve offered to move them ot other seats. . . .” line?
“Look, we can move you ANYWHERE you want. Seriously, anywhere. Look at all those empty seats. You can have any two of them you like. In fact, we’re short some players, you want to sit on the bench with the team? Can you hit?. . . .”
I had season tickets for 17 years and last year I was lied to about the position of my seats, and ended up not getting what I thought I paid for. There are other similar factors that were involved in this story as well.
The fan the Redskins sued, or at least the one that got the most press, was a LONG time season ticket holding grandmother. She gave up her seats because she could no longer afford them (there was a recession or something), not because the team sucked. She had tried to work it out with them, but they just turned around and sued her (she never showed up in court and got a default judgment, I believe).
I don’t think it was RG3 that stopped the bad publicity. I think it was that Dan Snyder finally realized he had to stop making decisions that looked horrible like “Yeah, we’re a billion dollar franchise that is printing money, but we should sue the few season ticket holders who back out of their contracts for a few thousand dealers in open court.”
The Detroit Lions take exception to that last statement
Comment by machado about nothing — March 22, 2013 @ 12:31 am
I have a overwhelming feeling that any Miami baseball coverage is going to be of this sort until Loria is ousted. Such a shame. But hey, at least Miami will be getting a taste of what Pittsburgh fans have been entreated to over the past 2 decades.
Comment by TroutKingFisher — March 22, 2013 @ 1:19 am
Wouldn’t installing an advertisement AFTER the people pay for the seats technically constitute a breach of contract since they don’t have the view they paid for? Not necessarily that the view is terrible, but if the club sold the seats THEN put in the ad, is that not false advertisement to the season ticket holders?
Comment by Hurtlockertwo — March 22, 2013 @ 10:04 am
He’s stupid enough to think that selling now would be “selling low” and refuses to do it. What’s obvious is that the attendance this season is going to be abysmal. Loria has zero credibility and people don’t want to support the franchise with he as the owner. Once the team starts doing horribly and will be less profitable, he’ll have even less leverage.
That would depend on what the terms of the contract are. Most likely, the terms do not explicitly state that the Marlins provide the ticket holders with any particular view. And I’m sure the terms don’t provide that the Marlins surrender their right to modify the seats and the area around them.
I can’t understand why MLB and the other owners want to keep Mark Cuban out of the old boy’s club when Jeffrey Loria is the alternative. Cuban would be great for Miami. No one could ever question his willingness to spend on the team or his desire to win, yet it’s the fact that he’s outspoken that keeps him on the outside. Despicable.
Comment by PillsburyFlowboy — March 22, 2013 @ 12:45 pm
Except the Marlins’ biggest customers actually seem to be the rest of the MLB (via revenue sharing), MLB.tv and their local TV broadcasters… plus they already got their big subsidy from taxpayers for that new stadium.
Loria is a clown and a joke but in this case I’ll side with the club. Assuming that they have made every reasonable accommodation to find alternative seating for the season ticket holder I think they have done their job. There are plenty of seats available to choose from. This is clearly a case where the buyers just want out of a contract they signed. No different really than those that try to get out of their cell contract because Verizon tacked on a $0.2/month new fee.
It’s not really clear exactly what options the team offered her. If they truly offered her worse seats, then I think the team is in the wrong. So I’ll withhold my judgment on the merits in the absence of further information.
But as a matter of public relations, the Marlins have indicated nothing but contempt for their fanbase. Loria’s statement implied that no one but “columnists” was opposed to the Blue Jays deal. The fact is, the team has been around for 20 years, and though they’ve won two championships and have had three different owners, they have a long-established history of trading away star players and blowing up the team rather than spending money on it.
I don’t know if the Marlins are wrong on the contract law, but they’re grossly, obviously wrong on the optics. They need to bend over backwards for their fans, not sue them.
This makes one think that either there should not be a luxury tax, or there should be no money for those spending below a “spending floor”, since it is angering that teams who are trying to be successful are being ripped off by teams that just want more money.
The reason for the luxury tax is that there are structural disparities between the 30 teams in baseball. The Rays are certainly trying to win, but they could never in a million years compete with the Yankees and Red Sox in the free agent market. The luxury tax is meant to level the playing field a bit.
Take a look at Wendy Thurm’s excellent series on team finances:
I’m not sure about that. Do the other teams in the marlins division have their ratings suffer when they play them? We know they will get a crappy tv deal because of the damage they are causing to the fan base. How about ticket sales? Do people not show up when the marlins are on the road? Counting it as an automatic win against a terrible team?
Dangit, i wanted to see if MArlins fans would turn out for the new stadium like i predicted they wouldn’t, now it will just be blamed on the owners and we won’t get to see if they really were going to support the team in a new roofed stadium.
Comment by DodgersKingsoftheGalaxy — March 23, 2013 @ 11:25 am
And if you add a salary floor he’ll just trade for Tim Thomas, who won’t do any worse for the Fish than whatever hockey team isn’t paying him now.
Would a reasonable person expect to pay for a seat, and then have it partially blocked by an add?
(Que the sarcastic, “Yes if they were Marlin’s fans” response)
Seriously though, I honestly don’t think it needs to explicitly written into the contract. There’s a lot of stuff in most contracts that isn’t explicitly stated but that is still assumed to be part of the contract. It would seem to me that this is one of those cases.
Not a lawyer, but I did take a contract law class.
Hill is one of 125 season ticket holders who asked to be released from multiyear contracts and were sued by the Redskins in the past five years. The Washington Post interviewed about two dozen of them. Most said that they were victims of the economic downturn, having lost a job or experiencing some other financial hardship.
Redskins General Counsel David Donovan said the lawsuits are a last resort that involve a small percentage of the team’s 20,000 annual premium seat contracts. He added that the team has accommodated people in hard-luck circumstances hundreds of times. He said he was unaware of Pat Hill’s case.
“The Washington Redskins routinely works out payment plans and alternate arrangements with hundreds of ticket holders every year,” Donovan said. “For every one we sue, I would guess we work out a deal with half a dozen.”