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  1. Why not go all-in? Cliff Lee and Utley for Michael Choice, Sonny Gray and Max Muncy with some salary offsets and perhaps Grant Green.

    Comment by Rickey24 — June 27, 2013 @ 1:10 pm

  2. As a Phillies fan, it would be terribly, terribly sad to see him go. But, if he’s not resigning with the team after this season, they might as well get what they can for him.

    Comment by Kyle — June 27, 2013 @ 1:12 pm

  3. The Orioles are even more in need of a 2B; Ryan Flaherty has a 58 wRC+ and Brian Roberts has played in 59 games since the start of the 2011 season.

    Comment by Mitch — June 27, 2013 @ 1:14 pm

  4. As a die-hard Phillies fan, I’d probably literally cry if Chasetopher was traded. But… It’s probably the right time. I’d like to see some analysis of this from the Phils’ side of things, such as possible prospects they’d get in return, but I’m obviously biased.

    Plus, all you hear in Philly these days is “that Freddy Galvis is an everyday player without an everyday position.” Over and over. It’s not as though the Phils don’t have a player they believe can do a decent job A.C. (after Chase). Plus, Chase going to the AL would allow him to take every nth day off and rest those crumbling knees.

    TL;DR: This makes sense for the As, the Phils, for Utley. Would the Phils get anything significant in return?

    Comment by jruby — June 27, 2013 @ 1:14 pm

  5. Pretty sure the exact same article could have been written substituting the Jays in for the A’s.

    Comment by jevant — June 27, 2013 @ 1:15 pm

  6. Excellent post, Mr. Cameron, however, you miss one crucial detail which is fuck Oakland.

    Comment by CONSTERNATIONNATION — June 27, 2013 @ 1:17 pm

  7. I regret I only have one upvote to give. I think the universe revealed its opinion of the A’s recently when it made them play in a literal craphole.

    Comment by edgar4evar — June 27, 2013 @ 1:21 pm

  8. Actually, considering Sogard is putting up 0.6 WAR to date, the Jays need Utley far more. Their best option to date has been Mark DeRosa, to the tune of a -0.1 WAR. Izturis and Bonifacio are both worse.

    Comment by jevant — June 27, 2013 @ 1:24 pm

  9. This is SO intellectually well thought out and helpful that you should go to Myspace and YouTube.

    Comment by baycommuter — June 27, 2013 @ 1:26 pm

  10. Cliff Lee’s salary alone would take up ~40% of their current payroll.

    Comment by VORP is too nerdy — June 27, 2013 @ 1:29 pm

  11. Chasetopher? Uhhh

    Comment by Ryan Seacrest — June 27, 2013 @ 1:31 pm

  12. This is as perfect a match as when Beane signed aging OBP superstar Frank Thomas. Beane vs. Amaro Jr. is one phone call I’d love to hear, too.

    Comment by Bodhizefa — June 27, 2013 @ 1:31 pm

  13. I’m an A’s fan, and that’s a thrilling prospect to have Beane push all in like that; but even w/ Lee and Utley I’m not sure we’re better than the Rangers. Is it worth 4 of our top 10 prospects to roll the dice this year?

    Comment by brendan — June 27, 2013 @ 1:31 pm

  14. not really.

    the jays have a far superior lineup and can hide izturis or bonafacio batting ninth.

    if jays are going to contend they need their starters to perform or need to add another mid rotation pitcher.

    Comment by dc — June 27, 2013 @ 1:31 pm

  15. izturis has been much much better the last month.

    its irresponsible to use 2 months of data as the end all of an argument.

    Comment by dc — June 27, 2013 @ 1:33 pm

  16. Utley still has value if the Phils give him a Qualifying Offer, thus giving more leverage for RAJ this trade deadline. If Utley accepts it they keep him and his 4WAR+ production for 14 million or trade him (with his 10/5 rights approval) next summer for a similar return as this year. If he doesn’t – some team will sign him and the Phils will get a comp pick.

    Comment by Nik — June 27, 2013 @ 1:38 pm

  17. They have too many pitchers already, Lee is amazing, but I think they can spend smarter, and look for Anderson’s return, and/or Gray being called up for pitching help. I wonder why Green, Weeks, and Nakajima, haven’t been given at least a look yet. I like Rosie as a guy, but he hasn’t showed value in 3+ years now, and doesn’t have much upside. Keeping him on the roster, and constantly bringing up 3rd catchers, instead of trying internal solutions is madding.

    Comment by Tim A — June 27, 2013 @ 1:38 pm

  18. I know defense is a major concern, but when your C, 2B, SS, and CF are ALL hitting at a 110 wRC+ or better, and all are passable (not good, but not Jesus Montero) at their positions, that’s just awesome.

    Get it done Billy. Please.

    Comment by BX — June 27, 2013 @ 1:38 pm

  19. The A’s are tied for the lead in their division and are projected (by Fangraphs) to fall three games behind Texas. The Jays are 6.5 games back and project to fall 9 games behind Boston, placing last in their stacked division. I think Utley is more of a difference maker for the A’s than the Jays. It’s fairly reasonable to think that Utley’s production could bridge a 3 game gap compared to the Sogales combination.

    Comment by VORP is too nerdy — June 27, 2013 @ 1:38 pm

  20. This is a winner. Disconsolate PHI fans can even make the easy drive south to see him playing!

    Comment by David — June 27, 2013 @ 1:39 pm

  21. Freddy Galvis is NOT an everyday player.

    Comment by Richard — June 27, 2013 @ 1:41 pm

  22. Rosales is a defensive fill-in more than anything else, and neither Green nor Weeks are known for their defense. Nakajima is just returning from injury and re-working his hitting mechanics in AAA. Apparently he changed the approach he used in Japan when facing American pitchers, failed pretty miserably, and is just now returning to his natural approach.

    Comment by VORP is too nerdy — June 27, 2013 @ 1:42 pm

  23. Freddy Galvis is the owner of .218/.261/.365 triple slash in 364 ML plate appearances, and those numbers are in line with his minor league numbers. He is also by my eyes (and UZR if you trust the extremely small sample sizes) of much more value defensively on the left side of the infield. His only roll should be to spell Rollins at short on occasion and as a late inning defensive sub for Michael Young.

    You don’t trade Chase Utley to make room for Freddy Galvis to get an everyday job, you trade Chase Utley because this is a lost year and the organization needs as much young talent as it can get. Frankly I would rather see Frandsen play if Utley leaves because he looks competent defensively and has shown some sort of ability with a bat over the last two seasons even if he has a heavy platoon split

    Comment by agam22 — June 27, 2013 @ 1:43 pm

  24. I know fangraphs isn’t the place for this kind of this, but I laughed.

    Comment by Brian — June 27, 2013 @ 1:44 pm

  25. You sir, Mr. CONSTERNATIONNATION, are a classy gentleman. Please keep up the valuable contributions to the site. /Sarcasm

    Comment by DowntownChico — June 27, 2013 @ 1:44 pm

  26. As a Phillies fan, this gives me nightmares

    Comment by agam22 — June 27, 2013 @ 1:44 pm

  27. This mostly makes sense, but it would be interesting to see a discussion of what Oakland might offer. Utley is a guy who has a lot of symbolic (marketing) value to the franchise, and I’d think that it would take something significant to justify a move.

    Comment by KM — June 27, 2013 @ 1:52 pm

  28. I am not, of course, claiming he is. But Charlie and Ruben sure as hell think he is.

    That’s probably strong evidence that he’s not…

    Comment by jruby — June 27, 2013 @ 1:53 pm

  29. Why would the Phillies take that risk? Best case scenario, based on the way that you presented it, is that the Phillies could get a “similar return” as this year or a compensation pick. However, in doing that they take on a lot of risk, such as Utley’s trade value declining next year (via injury, natural performance decline, or Utley limiting their trading options) or the compensation pick being less valuable than what they could get in return for trading Utley this year. Frankly, I think the Phillies are more likely to get value out of whatever the A’s trade for Utley than they are a compensation pick.

    Comment by VORP is too nerdy — June 27, 2013 @ 1:55 pm

  30. With Utley and Lee, I think a strong case could be made that we are better. Sure it may be 4 of the top ten prospects (arguably Green is past his sell-date) but look at the quality rather than quantity. Muncy is having a great year but is undersized and already 22 in A ball; Choice has holes in his swing and we are stacked in the OF; and Gray is good but not elite.

    Comment by Rickey24 — June 27, 2013 @ 1:55 pm

  31. 100% agree. Utley at his worst is more than likely to produce 10% more runs than an average hitting second baseman. Compared to Sogard, the A’s will be producing about 20-30% more runs at the 2B position with strong defense. It’s a no-brainer.

    Comment by Charlie — June 27, 2013 @ 1:56 pm

  32. Phillies’ ownership will promise to bring in enough votes to get the A’s to San Jose as part of the trade.

    Comment by Bill — June 27, 2013 @ 1:59 pm

  33. You’re forgetting Casilla! He just hit a 3 run homer.

    Comment by Bill — June 27, 2013 @ 2:00 pm

  34. I agree that Frandsen would be the better sub, but I don’t think the Phillies would play him consistently over Freddy. Now that Domonic Brown had a super month, Charlie will probably try to give every prospect 5 years before moving on…

    Comment by jruby — June 27, 2013 @ 2:03 pm

  35. Utley has a career 819 OPS in interleague vs his 876 OPS lifetime, I can just see him going to the AL and falling apart. The change in leagues just does some guys in, and he just seems like one of those types.

    Comment by Forrest Gumption — June 27, 2013 @ 2:04 pm

  36. I think this about sums up my reaction to that potential trade

    Comment by dbssaber — June 27, 2013 @ 2:04 pm

  37. In a shocking turn of evens, A’s GM Billy Beane reveals the truth behind his knack for recognizing overlooked value: “I just read a bunch of shit on the internet.”

    Comment by Shlum — June 27, 2013 @ 2:05 pm

  38. Everyone is pointing to Sogards .272 BA and .342 OBP and saying “he’s not that bad” but his 480 OPS with RISP is showing what those who have to watch him kill rally after rally see every day.

    Comment by Forrest Gumption — June 27, 2013 @ 2:06 pm

  39. The A’s may be stacked in the outfield right now, but by 2015 all that will be left are Cespedes (for a year) and Reddick. They’ll need Choice to be ready to be an every day contributor.

    Comment by VORP is too nerdy — June 27, 2013 @ 2:07 pm

  40. Lee, Utley, Papelbon & $80M for Young, Sogard & Barton, lol

    Comment by Forrest Gumption — June 27, 2013 @ 2:08 pm

  41. “But Charlie and Ruben sure as hell think he is.”

    Do they? I don’t see any real evidence of this.

    Comment by Richard — June 27, 2013 @ 2:08 pm

  42. His daughter goes on the internet sometimes.

    Comment by VORP is too nerdy — June 27, 2013 @ 2:08 pm

  43. and yet, Frandsen was playing more than Galvis just before Utley returned

    Comment by Richard — June 27, 2013 @ 2:09 pm

  44. Anyone remember the Utley+Howard for Zito deal that was rumored in 2004?

    Comment by Forrest Gumption — June 27, 2013 @ 2:09 pm

  45. From 2005 to 2009, Utley was an absolute monster, putting up five consecutive seasons with a +7 (or higher) WAR. He was perhaps the best all-around player in the game.

    Even with the all-around qualifier, that statement doesn’t hold up. Second best? Very possible. Best? No.

    Not only was Pujols better during that time, but he was better during every year of that time.

    Comment by Anon — June 27, 2013 @ 2:11 pm

  46. Ryan Howard’s career would have been vastly different in Oakland, I think. And by that I mean no MVP award.

    Comment by VORP is too nerdy — June 27, 2013 @ 2:14 pm

  47. I’m a Cardinals fan, but I’d be darned if I don’t really enjoy hearing about success or potential success in Oakland. Definitely my favorite AL team.

    Comment by Clayton — June 27, 2013 @ 2:15 pm

  48. Are we valuing hitters by how they hit with RISP now? Hm…

    Comment by Tim_the_Beaver — June 27, 2013 @ 2:15 pm

  49. Well, Richard, you’re right, maybe I’m just flat-out wrong. I’m going mostly by my impressions of how Charlie talks about Galvis, and seems to keep extolling his virtues while not really talking about Frandsen, but this might just be a result of the media asking about Freddy more and Charlie feeling like he has to defend him (even if he doesn’t believe his defenses). I could also be conflating the opinions of Wheels and Sarge and co. with that of the club, which would be a little silly of me. There was one point when the Phillies were really excited about Galvis, and I haven’t noticed that the ship has entirely sailed on that, but I could just be confused because in the 5 games I’ve seen at CBP this year, Freddy’s started 4 of them.

    Comment by jruby — June 27, 2013 @ 2:17 pm

  50. I would think that Rollins could be a better fit with Lowrie sliding over to 2B, prob his better position anyway. Maybe Utley is a better bat than Rollins, but Rollins is still an excellent SS defensively and while his numbers are a bit off so far, he’s been a 2nd half player the past few yrs iirc. All that and he’s signed for next year. Just for some icing, Rollins is an Oakland native. Bam.

    And as someone else pointed out, the Phils *could* get a draft pick back for hanging onto Utley and making him a QO which doesn’t seem that farfetched if he stays on the field and has a nice rest of the year. I could see someone giving Utley a 3 yr deal. It’s true that he hasn’t been truly great since ’09 but he’s been maintaining, and now that he’s past most health issues he could prob stay at this level for 3 more seasons – 35, 36, 37. I could see a 2/$24M or 3/$30M deal for him if all goes well.

    Comment by LaLoosh — June 27, 2013 @ 2:20 pm

  51. Even if we had a GM who was good at this sort of thing, the pain of seeing Utley in another uniform would more than offset whatever modest return we would get for him. (Tellingly, Cameron doesn’t devote any space to that part — because, as he says, the perception is that Utley is dead.) Since we have Ruben Amaro, it isn’t even worth discussing.

    Comment by Spoilt Victorian Child — June 27, 2013 @ 2:24 pm

  52. Agreed!

    Comment by Jason B — June 27, 2013 @ 2:26 pm

  53. There’s also Dan Murphy. You may have heard our outfield is terrible and Oakland has some depth there. Maybe Choice or Grant Green for Murphy? If Amaro gets stubborn in thinking his team is any good he might be the logical alternative to Utley.

    Comment by Dan the Mets Fan — June 27, 2013 @ 2:32 pm

  54. A royals fan was just making this very argument with me for the Royals. I guess everybody is culturing Utley, but it is very hard to think of what kind of value one should trade for Utley as I assume the Phillies will want a decent haul for him.

    Comment by Zigs — June 27, 2013 @ 2:33 pm

  55. You’re confusing past performance and projected future performance.

    Comment by chuckb — June 27, 2013 @ 2:33 pm

  56. lol is this a serious comment? fangraph standing projections as reasoning.

    I agree that the A’s would value utley more, but your reasoning makes me weep.

    Comment by dc — June 27, 2013 @ 2:34 pm

  57. Unknowledgeable fans believe that Galvis is good and they also believe the Phillies are good and have a shot at the playoffs. So, Amaro can’t trade Utley unless he can convince the unknowledgable fans that an Utley trade isn’t an admission that they suck. This can be done by telling them it’s to make room for Galvis. After all, I’m sure WIP is full of callers who believe all Galvis needs is a chance and he will be as good or better than Utley.

    Comment by Bill — June 27, 2013 @ 2:34 pm

  58. if the low cost for 2 months of utley is jemile weeks (he’s not in A’s plans) id do it. But anything more seems a bit much.

    A’s will likely stick with their platoon situation.

    sogard vs righties .287/.352/.716ops
    rosales vs lefties .257/.342/.756 ops

    dont relly like rosales though. mybe they callup grant green .316/.375/.869 ops in AAA at some point

    Comment by mlbfan23 — June 27, 2013 @ 2:35 pm

  59. I don’t think future performances of Izzy/Boni/DeRosa will be enough to help the Jays catch the 4 teams in front of them. Oakland has one team to “catch”.

    Need is greater in Toronto, methinks.

    Comment by jevant — June 27, 2013 @ 2:38 pm

  60. I also laughed. Not every comment has to add to the discourse. This one, for instance. I’m sure Conster’s feeling towards the A’s mirror mine for the Yankees and Red Sox.

    Comment by Bill — June 27, 2013 @ 2:39 pm

  61. He’s not arguing that it wouldn’t be a good trade for Toronto. The argument is that it is a better trade for Oakland. It’s a one year rental, so clearly playoff odds should figure into the comparison. Oakland’s a good team in a two horse race that’s played well all season. Toronto is a good team in five horse race that got off to a horrible start. Toronto has to play as schedule over weighted with games against Baltimore, New York, Tampa, and Boston. Oakland gets a bunch of games against Houston, Seattle, and Anaheim. Oakland has a much better chance at the playoffs.

    Comment by Bill — June 27, 2013 @ 2:44 pm

  62. Pride goeth before destruction and a haughty spirit before a fall and all that jazz, but guess which team can actually make that claim right now.

    Comment by matt w — June 27, 2013 @ 2:44 pm

  63. Ummm, Izturis’ projections put him far below replacement level — and remember that he was horrendous last year as well. He currently owns a -1.0 WAR. He’s projected for 0.1. Read those numbers again. The Jays need a second basemen.

    Comment by Jaker — June 27, 2013 @ 2:51 pm

  64. I am hoping for the dodgers to be sellers and Mark Ellis will make his prodigal return…

    Comment by Chris — June 27, 2013 @ 2:52 pm

  65. You’re right, but the Orioles have a much more pressing need for a starting pitcher. With limited resources to give up, they’re likely to stick it out with Flaherty who can at least provide plus defense at second and pursue a starter.

    Comment by Dave — June 27, 2013 @ 2:53 pm

  66. Yeah, Dave. You’re just trying to distract the A’s from trading for Ackley and turning him into a perpetual all-star.

    Comment by bookbook — June 27, 2013 @ 2:56 pm

  67. Totally agree here. ZiPS pegs Sogard at 0.3 WAR RoS and Flaherty at 0.1, in nearly identical PAs.

    Comment by Zeezil — June 27, 2013 @ 3:09 pm

  68. The A’s really don’t have a stacked minor league organization. It is sort of averageish, especially at the higher levels, which is the death knell for a team that doesn’t have mountains of cash. Sogard, in fact, is case in point for why the A’s need to hold onto their difference makers at the lower level; four-A guys cannot and should not be given starting jobs on contending teams.

    Comment by Athletics Enthusiast — June 27, 2013 @ 3:12 pm

  69. I suppose the Jays could always use Muneori Kawasaki at second. He’s putting up a 0.8 WAR while leading the league in hilarious interviews, hilarious warmup routines, and bowing. Seriously, wouldn’t Utley be a downgrade from that?

    Comment by Skier44 — June 27, 2013 @ 3:14 pm

  70. Oakland is scoring 4.7 runs/game compared to 4.6 for Toronto. Pretty close. Oakland’s 2Bs have a 94 sOPS+ compared to 61 for Toronto’s 2Bs. Toronto definitely has great depth in futility middle infielders though with Maicer, Bonifacio, De Rosa and Kawasaki.

    Comment by Skin Blues — June 27, 2013 @ 3:16 pm

  71. He’s too busy with his wife, Angelina, and his six children.

    Comment by Michael Scarn — June 27, 2013 @ 3:17 pm

  72. I don;t think they believe that as much as they like to posture it to the media. The everyday 2B is probably cesar hernandez in the short term. They talk Galvis as an eeryday guy cause if they could move him and increase his trade value they’d do it in a heatbeat.

    Comment by joecatz — June 27, 2013 @ 3:19 pm

  73. your jealousy warms my heart

    Comment by not the Slegna — June 27, 2013 @ 3:20 pm

  74. They’d take that risk based on two things.

    1. Teams are going to be hesitant to give Utley a long term deal to begin with, let alone, one that requires forgoing their 1st round pick.

    2. Utley is going to want the longest guaranteed deal he can get.

    3. He’s not likely to accept a 1 year deal, and even if he does, one year of Utley at 15mm for the Phillies is trememndous value.

    4. Their real options at 2B are two to three years away.

    5. The QO limits other teams interest, and increases the Phillies chances of signing him to a shorter term deal if they want.

    it’s an absolute no brainer.

    the question the Phillies have to ask themselves when trading Utley is whether the return they get is greater than that of a 1st round pick next year. thats also the cost for Utley.

    Take that, multiply the fan outrage if he is dealt, and any team looking at him needs to prepare to give up a top 100 prospect.

    Comment by joecatz — June 27, 2013 @ 3:26 pm

  75. We love your work.

    Comment by Academy of Pujols Defenders — June 27, 2013 @ 3:26 pm

  76. This upcoming series is gonna be fun.

    Comment by Bab — June 27, 2013 @ 3:27 pm

  77. Spoilt Victorian child shall avoid reflection / The child was spoilt Victorian

    Comment by Bab — June 27, 2013 @ 3:29 pm

  78. Royals Fan says sure, here’s Shields, and you throw Bundy, his broken elbow, and stuff, and we’ll talk.

    Comment by Yeah I Said It — June 27, 2013 @ 3:44 pm

  79. I agree with you, but what is WIP?

    Comment by mch38 — June 27, 2013 @ 3:44 pm

  80. And no 100MM contract.

    Oakland suppresses his HR numbers, and no other team signs him to that extension.

    Comment by BX — June 27, 2013 @ 3:46 pm

  81. In June, Galvis (58) had more plate apparences than Frandsen (42), even though Frandsen is a significantly better hitter.

    Comment by DavidCEisen — June 27, 2013 @ 3:58 pm

  82. the 4.6 runs per game is heavily skewed by the awful start.

    They have been averaging 6.4 runs per game recently.
    While you might argue that run can’t continue, I would argue that regression from Lind and EE would be overcome by the addition of reyes, and bautista coming back to life.

    Jays offense is one of the tops in the game, oaklands isn’t, jays don’t have the farm depth to be adding pieces willy nilly.

    Comment by dc — June 27, 2013 @ 4:02 pm

  83. Mayhaps, but he’s been sent packing to AAA with Reyes back. Their FFDAR (funny foreign dudes above replacement) just dropped significantly. :-/

    Comment by Jason B — June 27, 2013 @ 4:05 pm

  84. Yeah, that and The Will To Win.

    Comment by maguro — June 27, 2013 @ 4:25 pm

  85. What about four-A guys with Elf Magic?

    Comment by Eric Sogard — June 27, 2013 @ 4:29 pm

  86. At SS he could be. Not a very good one, mind you, but I think he’d be slightly above a replacement player.

    Comment by Brian — June 27, 2013 @ 4:46 pm

  87. Also, his 10/5 rights kick in in August, so trading him by 7/31 give the Phils the most leverage.

    Comment by DD — June 27, 2013 @ 4:56 pm

  88. Sports radio (94WIP).

    Comment by Scraps — June 27, 2013 @ 5:15 pm

  89. From context, it sounds like a radio station in Philadelphia.

    Comment by atoms — June 27, 2013 @ 5:16 pm

  90. (That is, Philadelphia sports radio.)

    Comment by Scraps — June 27, 2013 @ 5:17 pm

  91. May Oakland give you much well-deserved consternation.

    Comment by atoms — June 27, 2013 @ 5:17 pm

  92. Phils fan or A’s fan?

    Comment by atoms — June 27, 2013 @ 5:22 pm

  93. Actually, the universe revealed its opinion of the San Francisco dog-in-the-manger Giants, sleeping in San Jose while, yes, the A’s have to play in a craphole. Educated baseball fans know which one to blame.

    Comment by Scraps — June 27, 2013 @ 5:28 pm

  94. disagree!

    Comment by NATS Fan — June 27, 2013 @ 5:35 pm

  95. Rollins, although useful, is nowhere near the player of Utley right now. Utley is worth .4 more WAR in roughly a 125 ABs less. In other words, Utley might be able to get the As over the top, but Rollins likely is not enough. Thus, Rollins is wasted trade.

    Comment by NATS Fan — June 27, 2013 @ 5:41 pm

  96. Dave, What about adding Carlos Ruiz, on on-base machine versus lefties, would be a pretty amazing catching platoon with Jaso, and coming off the steroid suspension (the A’s obviously don’t have a problem if they can still play, see Bartolo Colon) and a free agent to be as well, they (Ruiz and Utley) could be packaged together?

    Comment by Nick — June 27, 2013 @ 5:55 pm

  97. There is a rumor here across the Bay, that the Giants are kicking the tires on Lee.

    Comment by channelclemente — June 27, 2013 @ 6:02 pm

  98. wait, bc of some computation on a piece of paper? Rollins hit 13 HRs in just August and Sept a year ago. Don’t be surprised when he goes on a tear again in the 2nd half.

    Comment by LaLoosh — June 27, 2013 @ 6:24 pm

  99. IIRC, trade blew up because of Ed Wade’s refusal to throw in Kyle Kendrick (though this might have been a slightly later iteration).

    Comment by Nick O — June 27, 2013 @ 6:36 pm

  100. Ruiz was not suspended for steroids. It was an ADD drug.

    Comment by KM — June 27, 2013 @ 6:38 pm

  101. And killing zombies.

    Comment by KDL — June 27, 2013 @ 7:03 pm

  102. We have enough depth to pull off a three-month Chase Utley rental.

    Comment by Nick O — June 27, 2013 @ 7:25 pm

  103. I understand the wisdom behind Utley being a trade target for Oakland but I think LaLoosh offers a better suggestion in Jimmie Rollins. If we trust ZiPS/Steamer (R) then the difference in expected performance between the two Phillies is minimal (0.3) and would probably be covered by improved defensive performance switching Lowrie from SS to 2B.

    There’s also the issue of Lowrie continuing to stay healthy. If Oakland adds Rollins than an injury to Lowrie means the A’s would need to play Sogard more and/or promote whichever one of Weeks/Green remains after the trade. Trading for Utley makes Lowrie the full time SS and if he goes down then the A’s are back to Sogard/Rosales starting in Oakland. I feel like there’s more potential upside in an injury replacement at 2B than SS. It would be great if Lowrie could stay healthy all year but that hasn’t been his track record in forever.

    The big question is price. How much more would Philly require in trade to part with Rollins instead of Utley? I think it’s too early to speculate whom Philly might want in return but if the price tag in talent is comparable than Rollins would be preferable. If Oakland can afford the fiscal cost of absorbing Utley’s remaining 2013 salary then they can afford to do the same with Rollins. Rollins’ $11 million salary in 2014 wouldn’t hamstring the A’s as it’s unlikely they’ll keep both Chris Young and Coco Crisp on next year’s roster. Dropping either of those salaries would go a long way toward paying for Rollins. Also, the A’s top SS prospect (Addison Russell) is unlikely to be ready until the end of next season at the earliest so having Rollins in place for an extra year guaranteed doesn’t impact Oakland’s long term plans for the position.

    So trading for Rollins instead of Utley would likely be a push for Oakland in 2013 and a boon for the team in 2014. That could certainly make the extra (anticipated) cost in terms of talent traded away more palatable for the A’s.

    Comment by grover — June 27, 2013 @ 9:01 pm

  104. It would be pretty amazing… I think the unspoken truth here is that we’d all like to have a catch with Chase Utley someday

    Comment by AlwaysSunnyInSanJose — June 27, 2013 @ 9:01 pm

  105. How bad is Lowrie really on defense? I know his UZR is terrible, but is he?

    Comment by Joe — June 27, 2013 @ 9:54 pm

  106. Nice

    Comment by Mark E. Smith — June 27, 2013 @ 10:00 pm

  107. Stephen Drew could be an option AGAIN too. And push Lowrie to 2b. It would be a low cost move that could be a benefit. Utley is clearly much better. Middlebrooks obviously has to hit in order to make Drew somewhat expendable.

    Comment by Joe — June 27, 2013 @ 10:09 pm

  108. I don’t think the A’s do that deal. They’re not trying to add an expensive and overpaid starter to the rotation. I don’t see the A’s doing more than Choice or Gray for Utley, straight up.

    Comment by Jono11 — June 27, 2013 @ 11:07 pm

  109. They can kick whatever tires they want, they’re still not going to the postseason.

    Comment by Jono11 — June 27, 2013 @ 11:08 pm

  110. They can keep Papelbon.

    Comment by Jono11 — June 27, 2013 @ 11:11 pm

  111. I think you’re abusing the word “tremendous” there. It’s a pretty fair value. A tremendous value would be one year of Utley for $6 million.

    Comment by Jono11 — June 27, 2013 @ 11:13 pm

  112. Really? A small-sample-size drop of 57 points in OPS tells you all that? Either you know way more about stats than I do, or way, way, WAY less.

    Comment by Jono11 — June 27, 2013 @ 11:15 pm

  113. I believe you’ve confused Billy Beane, general manager of the A’s, with Brad Pitt, general manager of my heart.

    Comment by Jono11 — June 27, 2013 @ 11:16 pm

  114. Green and Gray for Rollins?

    Comment by Spike — June 27, 2013 @ 11:17 pm

  115. I think the computation was actually on a computer screen.

    Comment by Jono11 — June 27, 2013 @ 11:18 pm

  116. Nah, the A’s already have a shortstop who can’t throw across the diamond. But the difference is Lowrie can actually hit.

    Comment by Jono11 — June 27, 2013 @ 11:22 pm

  117. Just imagine if it did happen…

    Comment by tbjfan — June 28, 2013 @ 12:03 am

  118. If I were the Phillies I’d want Choice or Gray, after I asked for Russell and was rebuffed, plus I’d want a lottery pick like Nunez/Robertson/Ynoa.

    If I’m the A’s I’d try to get the Phillies to take something like Green/Weeks plus the lottery pick. It would be fun to see what actually happens.

    Comment by Ivan Grushenko — June 28, 2013 @ 12:13 am

  119. You’re welcome to Grant Green for Murphy. Choice is a real prospect and I’d want a real player back.

    Comment by Ivan Grushenko — June 28, 2013 @ 12:16 am

  120. You’d really draw the line at Weeks? Utley would probably be worth an extra 2 wins over the rest of the season. That’s gotta be worth more than just Weeks. Sogard and Rosales aren’t starting caliber players.

    Comment by Ivan Grushenko — June 28, 2013 @ 12:18 am

  121. Was this a pun on Justin Sellers, former Athletic farmhand? If so, well done!

    Comment by Ivan Grushenko — June 28, 2013 @ 12:18 am

  122. Oooohh……Weeks for Ackley! Challenge trade of failed prospects!

    Comment by Ivan Grushenko — June 28, 2013 @ 12:19 am

  123. Good lord! Another catcher! They’ve already traded for Norris and Jaso.

    Comment by Ivan Grushenko — June 28, 2013 @ 12:19 am

  124. I like Gray. I wouldn’t trade him at all, except for something unreasonable.

    Comment by Ivan Grushenko — June 28, 2013 @ 12:20 am

  125. He looka Jeter bad to me.

    Comment by Ivan Grushenko — June 28, 2013 @ 12:21 am

  126. Oh come on! Michael Taylor and Shane Peterson will still be around.

    Comment by Ivan Grushenko — June 28, 2013 @ 12:22 am

  127. Grover, good analysis as usual.

    I feel like the Rollins idea has been suggested a million times (including last year when they ended up with Drew) and the answer from ‘knowing’ fans is that Rollins has a no-trade and doesn’t want to move to Oakland.

    Agree with you that it would be a better upgrade. In that he plays the more important position and would be around next year as well.

    Imagining Rollins in green & gold somehow seems more fitting than Utley, as well. Hope it happens.

    Comment by Matt — June 28, 2013 @ 12:22 am

  128. I don’t think I’d do that deal. Choice and Gray look like future major leaguers. I don’t think I’d trade that for a half-year rental, even an excellent one.

    Comment by Ivan Grushenko — June 28, 2013 @ 12:23 am

  129. So gold glove bad, is what you’re saying.

    Comment by Matt — June 28, 2013 @ 12:44 am

  130. Dammit. Cots had nothing on a no-trade clause, guess I should have done a bit more research… and spell-checked how to spell “Jimmy”.

    Comment by grover — June 28, 2013 @ 1:11 am

  131. Rollins has 10/5 rights… I must have been having a stupid while doing my due diligence.

    Comment by grover — June 28, 2013 @ 1:14 am

  132. Not even close to being true. Ed Wade was terrible, terrible GM, but he wasn’t this bad.

    Further, Kyle Kendrick was a 7th round draft pick stinking it up in A- ball. He was valueless. He certainly would never be a deciding piece in a trade.

    Comment by Keith — June 28, 2013 @ 1:51 am

  133. It matters more for winning playoff series. Lee can dominate single games. The A’s don’t have that legitimate ace in the rotation right now.

    Comment by Mac — June 28, 2013 @ 2:41 am

  134. What about the Red Sox trading Stephen Drew back to the A’s allowing Lowrie to shift over to 2nd. Then excess pitching prospects from the Red Sox and A’s go to Milwaukee for Aramis Ramirez who goes to the Red Sox with Iglesias sliding back over to shortstop?

    Makes both teams better and gives the Brewers young pitching in return.

    Comment by Matt — June 28, 2013 @ 2:46 am

  135. He most definitely does not score well on the eye test.

    Comment by TheGrandslamwich — June 28, 2013 @ 2:46 am

  136. So joecatz, I’m much of your opinion. Utley’s value _to Philly_ is greater than to any other team, his injuries notwithstanding. The issues seem to be they can’t (and shouldn’t) sign him long term, but that he’ll walk at season’s end to get as many years as possible. The qualifying offer would have some suppressive effect on his offeres, and Utley and Philly might meet in the middle. If not, they get a premium pick.
    So your further argument is the key to me in ‘Wither Chase?': What does Philly get back if they deal him. Seems to me, as to you, Philly should price a deal for Utley at ‘your first round pick equivalent prospect.’ If that prospect fits Philly’s needs, then pull the trigger and shed Utley’s injury risk (plugging ears against the fans’ “Auuughh!”) Sonny Gray seems to me the only Athletics prospect that might fit that conversation, and even then I’m not too sold on him.

    I don’t really know who would geek to grade a first round equivalent for three months of Utley. Oakland _getting_ Utley makes a ton of sense. Oakland paying that for Utley seems like a long reach. Beane’s a wheeler-dealer, though, so maybe he finds a package that balances. I’m thinking Utley lands somewhere else though if he’s moved. Which I’d guess is more like a 40/60 proposition, I think Philly will try to hang on to him unless wowed by an offer. With the wowee being more about fit than ceiling, maybe.

    Comment by Balthazar — June 28, 2013 @ 3:19 am

  137. Same time frame as the rejected Howard for Kris Benson and later Kip Wells deals.

    Comment by fonzie 13 — June 28, 2013 @ 3:48 am

  138. situation is prob different this time with Oakland no longer just an upstart and the Phils in transition. I’d be surprised if he blocks a deal to Oakland now.

    Comment by Spike — June 28, 2013 @ 6:03 am

  139. Buck likes Flaherty. He can’t hit a lick but he plays strong defense at second. Not saying I agree but it is what it is.

    Comment by Matt P — June 28, 2013 @ 9:51 am

  140. Kawasaki has a 101 wRC+ vs RHP so it’s not like he’s holding the team back offensively.

    Comment by Mark — June 28, 2013 @ 10:15 am

  141. I agree with DC’s logic, but I think they’ll keep him for the reasons you mentioned Joe, plus one that you allude to: “fan outrage”, especially with the looming tv deal with comcast. Anyone who’s been to CBP and seen the sea of Utley jerseys knows his value is greater than just his WAR. This is completely unscientific, but if they trade Utley, I think it would be the last straw for a lot of fans. The other straws being most of Ruben Amaro’s decisions up to this point.

    Comment by Chuck — June 28, 2013 @ 10:47 am

  142. Ten times better than your handle….

    Comment by Pops — June 28, 2013 @ 10:47 am

  143. @dc,

    “Jays offense is one of the tops in the game, oaklands isn’t”

    Show us a stat that says Oakland’s offense isn’t one of the best. Just because their lineup doesn’t look pretty doesn’t mean they can’t score runs. (Sorry for the triple negative sentence.)

    Comment by Jay29 — June 28, 2013 @ 11:30 am

  144. Well it depends on how you define “all-around player.” Pujols was better in WAR (though, how confident are we in a difference of 3.6 WAR over 5 years?). But Utley put up better defense and baserunning numbers, so maybe he was better “all around?” Similar bottom line value, but with more even contribution from all facets of the game.

    Comment by Jay29 — June 28, 2013 @ 11:57 am

  145. Agreed. The only trade more obvious than Utley is Rollins. By the author’s admission Lowrie is a disaster defensively at SS – at least they could hide him a little at 2B. Rollins upgrades the entire pitching staff with his glove. Plus it gets Philly out from under that contract…

    Comment by John Galt — June 28, 2013 @ 12:57 pm

  146. Pretty sure Buck would like Utley too.

    Comment by BurleighGrimes — June 28, 2013 @ 1:43 pm

  147. no, but it sure is infuriating to watch a powerless utilityman playing every day getting a 2 out walk and then striking out with runners on 3rd time and time again. Sogard is terrible.

    Comment by Forrest Gumption — June 28, 2013 @ 1:50 pm

  148. Grant Green, a 1st Rd pick has his OPS up to 890 at AAA and is 25 now, Utley’s not coming, he is.

    Comment by Forrest Gumption — June 28, 2013 @ 1:52 pm

  149. Is Utley a 10 and 5 guy yet?

    Comment by Dylan — June 28, 2013 @ 2:21 pm

  150. No, you don’t get it: that really is Ryan Seacrest.

    Comment by joser — June 28, 2013 @ 5:16 pm

  151. Nope. Not any more. Two games was enough for them to realize they can’t live without him. Mune is back in Toronto and the FFDAR value is restored.

    Comment by joser — June 28, 2013 @ 5:20 pm

  152. Who, following Kayne’s lead, will name his next child Arm.

    Comment by joser — June 28, 2013 @ 5:22 pm

  153. ya that package would barely get Utley let alone Lee.

    Comment by bob — June 29, 2013 @ 12:14 am

  154. Do you think you can get a player such as Utley without giving up something? Choice and Gray LOOK like future major leaguers, but Utley IS a current major leaguer that can help Oakland. So instead of trading from your strong positions to help your weakest position, you’d just rather let it ride and hope Texas and the wild card teams don’t improve enough to leave you on the sidelines for the playoffs. Sound strategy there bub.

    Comment by JD — June 29, 2013 @ 4:51 am

  155. Trading Utley will not signal that the Phillies are in rebuild mode? Guy is THE heart and soul of the franchise, the symbol of their lengthy run of success, and an icon amongst the fan base. I hear you that he’d fit in nicely with the A’s given need and offensive approach, but don’t buy for a second that his departure from Philly would signal anything less than the end of an era.

    Comment by Keith — June 29, 2013 @ 9:57 pm

  156. Green and Gray? Ever since Vida Blue the A’s go for colors.

    Comment by Baycommuter — June 30, 2013 @ 12:37 am

  157. Mayhap Rollins and Utley could go to Oakland for a few prospects. That upgrades both positions. Actually, throw in both Youngs and I would take a…a…well whatever food in Oakland is equivalent in popularity with the philly cheese steak. I haven’t looked at numbers, so maybe Lowrie is a better option at short than rollins, but…

    Comment by Nehi — June 30, 2013 @ 10:31 pm

  158. Brendan, are you kidding? The A’s are possibly better than the Rangers as it is. They should only improve with the additions of a Cy Young caliber pitcher and above average 2B

    Comment by Erik — June 30, 2013 @ 10:53 pm

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