As much as I want the game to be clean, I really don’t like the Arod suspension. Melky also tried to beat the system last season, and created fake evidence in an effort to thwart investigation, and he went unpunished. As far as I know there is language in the JDA that allows Selig to punish players interfering with an investigation, I would rather he kept to that language than invoking the CBA, it’s a little too Roger Goodellian.
Suspended Players Cool Name Power Rankings
14. Alex Rodriguez
13. Ryan Braun
12. Nelson Cruz
11. Fernando Martinez
10. Jesus Montero
9. Jhonny Peralta
8. Jordan Norberto
7. Everth Cabrera
6. Cesar Puello
5. Francisco Cervelli
4. Antonio Bastardo
3. Sergio Escalona
2. Fautino de los Santos
1. Jordany Valdespin
Comment by Well-Beered Englishman — August 5, 2013 @ 3:25 pm
I just want to stop talking about this, except as it relates to, “Holy Crap, Texas just lost Nelson Cruz, how are they going to make the playoffs”.
As a Rangers fan, I don’t hold any hard feelings towards Cruz for accepting the suspension. The man has to put the best interests of his career and his family first. I just wish he had try something else- ANYTHING else- to come back from that illness.
Oh well, the Rangers don’t need him anyways. We have Craig Gentry to step in for him. They have Craig Gentry to step in for him! Three cheers for UZR!
Comment by JuanPierreDoesSteroids — August 5, 2013 @ 3:50 pm
why? he found a legal loophole in the system and used it. If you were on trial, isnt that what you pay your lawyer for? As a result, he was found not guilty, therefore, he didnt recieve a ‘first’ suspension (let alone a second that precedes the 150game).
Arod, if what is said is correct, not only did it to himself (‘roids, hgh, etc), but also recruited others to Biogenesis, and at other times, blocked, frustrated, and impeded investigations by his deliberate actions.
Braun cooperated (this time around). Arod, far from it. Heck, he is the only one thus far to state that he is appealing the process, (which is kinda reminiscent of Clemens and his stance in his trials, all the arrogance and such).
Yes, Melky did set up a fake website to help deceive investigators etc. But, some readings have it that his agent did it, rather than him. And others have left that agency for more ‘scrupulous’ ones recently. Which makes me wonder if it was done with Melky’s instruction, or on their own.
Hmmm. It appears that I was so excited about Gentry, that I typed the same sentence twice. I don’t blame myself, Gentry is the hypest of the hype.
Comment by JuanPierreDoesSteroids — August 5, 2013 @ 3:54 pm
Question. The Yankees don’t actually have to activate A-Rod once he is eligible to come off the DL, do they? What is their incentive to actually activate him? Why should they? I am sure that they can conjure up a reason not to (and given that A-Rod already called them out on that about 10-14 days ago, why not). Let him sit in Tampa, or NY not on the team, while the appeals process works its way. Then once it is denied (seriously, does anybody believe it will be upheld?) the Yankees can proceed from there..
For a 38-year-old player, a 1.5 year suspension essentially is a lifetime ban, right? Other than the $60 million, I suppose. It’s not like any team is going to hire the guy as a bench coach down the line.
The only person who might do it because of a play off race, Cruz, is also a free agent at the end of the year. It makes more sense for himto be available for the beginning of his new contract than try to serve some of the suspension then. It would greatly decrease his market value.
Perhaps that’s a tactic to try to convince him NOT to appeal? If a-Rod’s suspension started today he’d only have a few hours before today’s game to make a decision. This way he has a few days to feel the full weight of the press, the fans, and his fellow players. Maybe Jeter and Mo sit him down tonight and say “man up and take your punishment.”
I’m not trying to defend A-Rod’s use of PEDs, but I’m wondering: if it’s okay for MLB to buy evidence against players then why isn’t it okay for the players to try to buy (or outbid them for) that evidence as well?
I feel like as soon as they made the acquisition of evidence a business transaction that they opened it up to competition and can no longer complain if somebody else wants to make an offer. Instead he’s being suspended in part for doing exactly what MLB did.
So far all talk of responsibility falls on the players, and obviously they are responsible for their own bodies. However, so many of these players were/are represented by ACES, and many of them are/were borderline major leaguers. They’re not the only ones to profit by making real deals in the majors, so do the agencies. does MLB have any recourse against an agency that may be pushing their players into this?
Would Horowitz actually consider the fact that other players accepted suspensions without appeal as evidence that Bosh etc is creditable? It seems that the motivation and circumstances surrounding other players suspensions/appeals would be separate from Arod’s case.
my understanding is that the Friday game thru the rest of season totals 50 games for most of the teams (with suspended players). Or, put another way, Suspend on Thursday, for rest of season, (but not post season for those that qualify).
Comment by Cheats hvae to pay — August 5, 2013 @ 5:37 pm
The other FG article about the bans made the interesting point that since the beginning of the 2011 season Cruz has accumulated 3.8 WAR in 391 games while Gentry has 5.9 WAR in 246 games. So there’s that.
I still can’t believe Braun got 65 games. He threw everybody and their mother under the bus during his first debacle. He lied and he betrayed everyone. A collector lost his job because Braun is a Fraud. Yet he got a slap on the wrist. He should be right there with A-Rod and 200+ games..
Today is a sad day for MLB,the fans of this great game, and all players who may have been negatively affected by others selfishness…Ultimately, although today will be a day of infamy for MLB, it is a tremendous step in the right direction for the game we love.
Sadly….the biggest criminal in all of this , again gets off scott free – in fact, this actually makes him look good…..Hey…BUD SELIG…..look in the mirror you POS….this is ALL your fault…you turned a blind eye….you let PED usage get so rampant…..if anyone deserves a lifetime suspension from baseball it’s you BUD SELIG…..you’re a joke of a commissioner and as a human being……
Comment by Chone Figgins — August 5, 2013 @ 6:07 pm
What really makes no sense about the arbitrariness of ARod’s suspension is that Bud alleges that there has been “possession and use” of “numerous forms of PEDs” over “several years.” But where’s the evidence to support such an outrageous allegation? It’s certainly not found in ARod’s positive drug tests.
This is pretty clearly a first violation, subject to a 50 game suspension, just like the others. It’s obviously a bad day for baseball when it has to suspend 13 players for violation of the drug policy, but it’s particularly bad when its commissioner has acted so capriciously by conducting the “investigation ” with absolutely no transparency whatsoever.
Bud has violated baseball’s trust and also deserves a lifetime ban.
Wonder what the sum total for their 2012-2013 WAR is. Too lazy to calculate, but I suspect the owners savings per WAR (prorated for suspended period) to be well north of 5 million. Meaning they did good financially here.
It’s really a case of both sides being in the wrong, but one has “moral high ground” because, america’s pastime. Hopefully Bud will retire sometime soon and we can move on from the pettiness. Sure, some guys are cheating and breaking the agreed upon rules – punish them for that, and negotiate additional rules if you no longer want evidence to be a purchasable item – but don’t punish a guy for playing the game you set up.
I would hope not. Their cases should be considered separately – and I for one don’t take confessions to be proof that somebody is guilty (although it is highly likely in the case of professional athletes who know full well their options, so exactly this case) – there is also the possibility that a person could confess to avoid the risk of harsher punishment even though they hadn’t cheated. There is reason to believe that MLB was threatening harsher punishment for players who didn’t accept the deal and forgo appeals.
It is a pretty shady tactic, if you ask me. At minimum, MLB withheld the suspensions until it was most opportune – either take it without appeal and lose the end of the season, or fight and lose a bunch of time next season. It’s a better deal to just lose the end of the season if you think you are likely to lose your appeal.
Buds going to have a problem with precedence here. Melky attempted to mislead investigators and did not get punished. Braun only got 15 games by taking the case to arbitration, and winning, despite being guilty of using steroids. Other players have been suspended for buying steroids as well. Grimsley in fact got raided by Feds for distribution of HGH and was suspended for only 50 games.
Also, Arod should not be punished for the inefficiencies of the MLB testing program (double suspension for PED use, 100 games), and in fact it is his negative tests that is Arods best defense if the evidence Arod bought steroids is limited to Bosch saying so.
Regardless of the loopholes in the language, the key really is what the players thought they were agreeing to in the JDA. I doubt they agreed to an unlimited term of suspension of PED’s and thought it was fixed at 50/100/life. I expect them to eliminate any such loopholes in the next round of talk, and Weiner should not have conceded this point if he indeed did so.
Whether or not Arod can get a fair arbitration hearing given the last arbitrator was fired for ruling against MLB, I have no idea
The collector lost his job because he was unable to adhere to procedure and gave Braun an opportunity to invalidate the test. Look at it from MLB’s point of view – you think you have a positive test, the public finds out, and then suddenly you don’t because your employee screwed up – would you fire the employee that effectively gave Braun an out?
And as an aside, I don’t know that I would get all worked up extra (beyond the fact that they were cheating) about a player lying about taking steroids – that’s kind of the whole point of the suspension. Any player taking PEDs is presumably also lying about taking them. I’m not sure we should be punishing them extra, the lying was kind of included in the originally negotiated penalty of 50 games.
Comment by Rage McTinyballs — August 5, 2013 @ 7:40 pm
Can we please stop bringing up the Bonilla deal as shorthand for bad contracts or LOLMets? It is deferred money. It makes total sense when taking the time-value of money into account.
Comment by Alexander Nevermind — August 5, 2013 @ 8:23 pm
Melky actually FAILED his drug test, and was judged by the 50-100-lifetime procedures. The lying & deceiving part really has no impact on the punishment. As for the Biogenesis news, Melky can’t be suspended a second time for the same crime.
On the other hand, A-Rod did not fail his drug tests. A-Rod’s suspension does not follow the 50-100-lifetime pattern.There’s no fixed punishment structure for ‘lying’ and ‘deceiving’.
MLB is really just making up the penalties as they go.
So if the suspension is 211 games, Rodriguez appeals and plays the rest of this season, arbitrator denies appeal in offseason, does Rodriguez have to miss the first 49 games in 2015 to get to 211 games?
It seems like the ‘suspended through end of 2014 season’ headline doesn’t work if Rodriguez does appeal, which it certainly seems like he will.
Actually the penalty for violating the law here (possession of these controlled substances) is one year in jail – for each specific offense. Plus up to five years in jail for obstruction of justice (and who knows how many specific instances of obstruction there are here).
Personally, I think ARod should join the 350,000 other Americans who are currently in prison for non-violent drug possession charges. Why does MLB get some special exemption from the law?
so, what nobody seems to talk about is that the yankers dont have to pay him next year and could easily get under the mandated 189 million cap to reset the tax break now. I wonder if the comish is also working for the yankers in this deal.
Yeah, there was no legal investigation of any kind regarding the players themselves, was there? Otherwise ARod would be in deeper doodoo than facing a suspension. Presuming he did conspire to destroy documents.
Does it count as medical records when the person overseeing your treatment has no medical degree or really training?
If you went to see a witch doctor who kept notes, would these also be considered your ‘medical records’? Bosch didn’t practice medicine, he practiced chemistry and portrayed himself as a doctor when he wasn’t one.
Comment by Stuck in a slump — August 6, 2013 @ 5:36 am
And here I thought you were making a subtle point about people who get upset when fans talk about their teams using the first person plural.
I think it’s entirely likely that the result will be a significant cut in the suspension unless there is real evidence that A-Rod did things that are much worse than the likes of Braun and Melky. Also, even old, broken A-Rod is probably an upgrade on whoever is impersonating a third baseman on the Yankees at the moment. And the Yankees can’t really afford to do anything else that will diminish their already flickering playoff hopes.
Yeah, get your easily understandable common sense out of here, there is a pariah to massacre. Bud Selig can do no right. This investigation was bound to fail and he would look foolish. Now it is an overreach. Had he done nothing he would not care about steroids. No matter what he can’t win, and this is from someone who really, really wishes Bud would retire.
Quick question for Wendy if she makes it back here, lawyer to lawyer. With players like Cruz and Peralta suspended as of 08/31, how is it that they would be eligible for the playoffs despite the suspensions ending before the postseason? Are they still somehow on the 25-man even though they’re suspended? Thanks to Wendy and anybody who can provide an answer.
Comment by theroundsquare — August 6, 2013 @ 9:56 am
ARod loses about $36 million. You would think he would hire some serious lawyer help to save some of that cash? The Yankees must be dancing in the streets, $36 million saved would buy some serious fill ins for a 3B well past his prime.
Comment by Hurtlockertwo — August 6, 2013 @ 10:17 am
They’re on the restricted list. When their suspensions end, they can be activated, just as someone coming off the DL is.
It’s absurd that Cruz or Peralta could return for playoffs and get the big stage to possibly earn big FA contracts. The other 50-gamers sit out meaningless games while their teams are out of the playoff race.
Current penalties are way too light to be a true deterrent. Melky Cabrera’s contract last winter showed that.
The union handles certification/decertification, not MLB. The union investigated ACES after the Melky scandal but nothing stuck. They blamed a “contractor” and canned him. It is starting to look suspicious, isn’t it?
Well, when used properly the drugs were medicine, but they were being abused, so they weren’t medicinal. But You’ve helped make my point clearer:
Bosch wasn’t a doctor, and he didn’t give Rodriguez drugs for medical purposes so any notes and information in his file shouldn’t be considered part of his medical records.
Comment by Stuck in a slump — August 6, 2013 @ 1:12 pm
“It makes total sense when taking the time-value of money into account.”
Rather, it MIGHT make total sense depending on the discount rate applied, and what the inflation rate actually turns out to be. You can’t just say it always makes sense and is the correct thing to do in every case (nor the wrong thing to do in every case).
I don’t see how this gains the Yankees anything. They would have to pay him while he’s still on the DL missing games.
I hate that not having to pay A-Rod next year will help them with their goal to get under the luxury tax limit.