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  1. Weird, the Mets had two of their stars scoped on the same day?

    Comment by Kevin S. — January 14, 2010 @ 10:45 pm

  2. The thread title gave me a heart attack.

    Comment by Jay Schu — January 14, 2010 @ 10:46 pm

  3. This article doesn’t even talk about David Wright. Is he ok? Will my baby boy be ok?

    Comment by Joey — January 14, 2010 @ 10:47 pm

  4. What does this have to do with David Wright?

    Comment by Nate — January 14, 2010 @ 10:47 pm

  5. Carlos Beltran and David Wright are actually the same person. This explains a lot.

    Comment by joser — January 14, 2010 @ 10:57 pm

  6. Fangraphs should encourage people to update their projections on players like this.

    Comment by brent in Korea — January 14, 2010 @ 11:04 pm

  7. I SERIOUSLY had a heartattack when I saw the title!!! David isn’t even in it!

    Comment by melissa — January 14, 2010 @ 11:06 pm

  8. Can somebody help me find the most clutch player from the CLUTCH statistic….or give me like a top 10 CLUTCH list? Little help anyone. Mike Sweeney has a 2.92 CLUTCH rating is anyone higher? Pujols is under 1 so is A-Rod

    Comment by Omazing — January 14, 2010 @ 11:15 pm

  9. I believe Gutierrez had the highest last year. Just going off memory.

    Comment by 200tang — January 14, 2010 @ 11:17 pm

  10. Maybe David Wright does need scoped after last season’s performance!

    Comment by JimBibbySweat — January 14, 2010 @ 11:17 pm

  11. “I’m sure the New York media will realize that and handle this with a reasonable amount of understatement.”

    I’m sure you’re right about that. It’s not like they’d go clamoring for the whole team to be traded or anything.

    Comment by Nathaniel Dawson — January 14, 2010 @ 11:21 pm

  12. That was just a terrible headline. Nowhere near April first either….sadly to say

    Comment by Jebus — January 14, 2010 @ 11:30 pm

  13. I need a new pair of pajamas due to the original headline.

    Comment by CajoleJuice — January 15, 2010 @ 12:21 am

  14. Mauer missed the entire month of April. He reached 606 PAs. Of course, He DHed some days for rest, but an interesting coincidence nonetheless.

    Comment by sean — January 15, 2010 @ 1:49 am

  15. What was the original headline?

    Comment by dan — January 15, 2010 @ 2:03 am

  16. and what the hell does David Wright have to do with this?

    Comment by dan — January 15, 2010 @ 2:04 am

  17. “David Wright Gets Scoped”

    Comment by Johnny Dicktits — January 15, 2010 @ 2:15 am

  18. Phillies’ fan?

    Comment by Steve — January 15, 2010 @ 7:46 am

  19. Are you saying that after the last year, the Mets FO and medical staff should NOT be getting called out by the media for this?

    All-Star CFer misses 1/2 a season for what is called a “bone bruise” behind his knee

    All-Star CFer needs additional surgery, but instead of this being decided in November or December, it is decided after the point where Opening Day is now a longshot

    All-Star CFer’s personal doctor, who is known as the top knee surgeon in the country, disagrees with the team doctors on the right course of action

    All-Star CFer says he got approval from the GM to have the surgery, but the team is now saying, through someone who is NOT the GM, that they did not consent

    Seriously, WTF is going on with the Mets?

    maybe in a vacuum, the actual injury shouldn’t be overblown, but to an outsider, this looks like a symptom of a seriously dysfunctional FO.

    this is JMO, and i’d love to hear some insights from the Mets fans here.

    Comment by Steve — January 15, 2010 @ 7:53 am

  20. I will preface this by stating that I am a fanatical Phillies fan but I do look at most things reasonably (I won’t say Beltran sucks because he’s a big bad Met or any other player on their team…I’m honest about my team’s rivals). I wanted to get that out there before someone just ignores the rest of the post on that basis alone…so here goes:

    That said, I am 100% behind Beltran on this one. The guy has a career to think about. Given the Mets track record recently when it comes to injured players, he was well within his rights to seek a 2nd opinion from a renowned knee doctor and then get a necessary surgery. Their medical staff tried to get him to play injured last year. Not to play through pain but to play injured. Then they wanted him to rehab instead of get surgery as they’re more concerned with getting a Beltran at 75% for the entire season rather than get a potentially fully healthy Beltran for 3-4 months. They screwed up with him last year, they screwed up Reyes, and royally screwed up Ryan Church and there are a couple others that I remember hearing about as well.

    If the Mets were smart (read: “If the Wilpons were smart”), they’d can Omar and the medical staff, start over and put a winning product on the field. I hope they don’t do that as I’d hate to have to compete with them as a Phillies fan. Their entire Front Office is a trainwreck right now and someone has to step up and take responsibility for it.

    As far as Beltran goes, he’s one of the best CFs in the game and based on a good majority of the comments I’ve seen on Mets blogs, NY fans don’t realize what they’ve got in him. I was seriously surprised at how many were actually on him for being too fragile and selfish. The guy’s had a pretty good track record and he plays all out (he’s just one of those guys that gets banged up easily). I do wonder about how much longer he’ll be able to handle CF (especially in Citi Field) as this is supposedly a degenerative arthritic knee condition that this surgery will only basically plaster over for a little bit. I’d have to imagine that it will begin effecting his range as he enters his mid-30s.

    Comment by NEPP — January 15, 2010 @ 8:13 am

  21. Ahh…my 454 PA projection is vindicated. Now to see if a similar projection for Reyes also bears fruit.

    Comment by The A Team — January 15, 2010 @ 8:53 am

  22. You’ve read The Contest right? This was Omar’s next move.

    Comment by The A Team — January 15, 2010 @ 8:54 am

  23. “I’m sure the New York media will realize that and handle this with a reasonable amount of understatement.”

    Perhaps the funniest line ever written…

    Comment by SteveM — January 15, 2010 @ 9:06 am

  24. That’s after it took them four months and numerous comeback attempts to realize Jose Reyes had a torn tendon. I’d say a prominent Mets blogger should pull a Rany and get banned by the team, but, well, nobody gives a shit about the Mets.

    Comment by Kevin S. — January 15, 2010 @ 9:13 am

  25. I don’t know, updating projections based on injury knowledge seems a bit like “cheating” to me.

    After 2010 is over, we’ll get some blog posts about how the fan projections were as good or better than the various computer-based projections, and we’ll all marvel at the wisdom of crowds…except that the reason for the outperformance will be at least in part due to our collective ability to throw out previous projections and create new ones based on new information.

    As Matt’s article points out, the fan project had a projection of 606 plate appearances, so clearly the fans didn’t nail this one. But no worries, we can just throw out the bad estimate and make a new one.

    Comment by brownra2 — January 15, 2010 @ 9:17 am

  26. As a lifelong Mets fan, I appreciate NEPP’s comments, and generally agree with them. Beltran is one of those players that moves gracefully and seemingly effortlessly, hence his under-appreciation by Mets fans. He’s kind of the flip side of your Shane Victorino – a player I really enjoy watching, largely because his effort is so obvious.

    I hate to be in a position to defend Boras – a real scourge as far as I’m concerned – but in this case, he and his client are 100% correct. Beltran is employed by the Mets, but as we all do, he works for himself and his family. Given that, the horrible track record of the Mets ability to manage player injuries, and the fact that Beltran went to the preeminent knee surgeon in the US, if not the world.

    Beltran is right, the Mets are wrong, and were wrong months ago when the took the “conservative” path, which led us to where we are today. All of this is the Mets’ front office’s fault. 100%.

    Comment by SteveM — January 15, 2010 @ 9:54 am

  27. Steve, I’m a Mets fan (pray for me). You are 100% spot-on. This entire circumstance lies entirely at the feet of Minaya and his incompetent stooges. The mismanagement of injuries to Ryan Church and Jose Reyes to name just a few demonstrate all of the track record that Beltran needs to take their recommendations with a grain of salt – if not an entire salt mine.

    In truth, this should have been done at some point last year. If I were a player in the Mets system, I’d be hard pressed to trust any of their medical advice ever, so long as the current regime is in place.

    Comment by SteveM — January 15, 2010 @ 10:06 am

  28. Might be optimistic!

    Comment by SteveM — January 15, 2010 @ 10:07 am

  29. Did a Mets fan just agree with a Phillies fan about something? What is this world coming to, please go throw beer (or someother appropriate liquid) at each other.

    I think the biggest shame in all this is that the Mets FO let everyone know their frustration with the situation. This should have been handled in house, and not with the media. Maybe that is part of doing business in a large market that they couldn’t keep it hush hush, but they didn’t need to run to the media right away…

    Comment by Bobo — January 15, 2010 @ 11:13 am

  30. Yes, but I feel pretty happy about it considering I made that projection pre-scoping. I might try to push it down to 400 PA. More likely, I’ll penalizes the speed components (UZR, SB’s, Avg) a little bit and maybe expect a more patient approach at the plate.

    I think about a third of my projections have considerable downward adjustments to playing time due to injury or collapse risk. I don’t know if I’m properly weighing such things, but I sure as hell know that “The Fans” scores aren’t.

    Comment by The A Team — January 15, 2010 @ 12:56 pm

  31. Except that we get updated CHONE and ZIPS etc projections before the season starts (and even after, in a couple of cases). So we’ll still be comparing apples-to-apples. In fact, if we don’t allow the fans to modify their projections (or at least add new ones) we’re going to artificially penalize the fan projections (especially since all but the most dedicated of fans won’t bother even if they have the opportunity, so the fan projections will always be polluted by some bogus early data and thus always at a disadvantage).

    Though maybe you’d rather have CHONE et al “cheat” by not taking the latest information into account at the season starts.

    Comment by joser — January 15, 2010 @ 3:02 pm

  32. That’s the way it looks to this outsider too. The odd thing is that the NY media, for all its high-hyped dudgeon, can’t seem to see the forest for the trees. If they actually connected the dots and held the team accountable instead of specializing in generalized sturm und drang, they might actually accomplish something beyond selling papers (or at least get somebody banned from the Mets offices).

    Meanwhile around here we see the same thing: people (such as in “The Contest” thread) defending Minaya because he couldn’t “predict” the injuries and they “weren’t his fault” — which is of course true of the injuries themselves, but not the way the team has handled them (consistently badly).

    Comment by joser — January 15, 2010 @ 3:12 pm

  33. Depends on whether he soiled the front or the back.

    Comment by joser — January 15, 2010 @ 3:13 pm

  34. Yeah, that Kumbaya moment has just convinced me that either Carlos Beltran’s knee is in fact the messiah, or something deeply weird recently happened in Whoville to cause the hearts of Mets and Phillies fans to grow three sizes.

    Either way, clearly the world is about to end.

    Comment by joser — January 15, 2010 @ 3:36 pm

  35. Hey, Phillies fan here too, and I will gladly trade Victorino for Beltran on May 1st.

    Comment by neuter_your_dogma — January 15, 2010 @ 4:35 pm

  36. I wouldn’t make a Vic/Beltran trade based on cost alone.

    Ability wise, Beltran is by far the superior player…though I wouldn’t be stunned if Vic has more value this year if he stays healthy. He’s probably a 4 win player this year.

    Comment by NEPP — January 17, 2010 @ 11:10 pm

  37. So JJ Putz throws another can of gas on this fire (the larger “how the Mets handle medical issues” fire, not Beltran in particular). Of course it is the NY Post and Putz is no longer with the Mets and he does seem to specialize in Parthian Shots at past employers (something for your wall, JJ?) but this does sound sadly plausible.

    Comment by Joser — February 1, 2010 @ 4:57 pm

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