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  1. 2006’s 5.27 figure

    Comment by osfib — April 23, 2010 @ 8:17 am

  2. Definitley have to raise the steroid question re Buehrle.

    Comment by Wrighteous — April 23, 2010 @ 8:53 am

  3. Nice piece here RJ.

    Comment by jackweiland — April 23, 2010 @ 9:17 am

  4. Which steroid question? Whether he was on them or the fact that he pitched in the “Steroid Era”?

    Comment by jackweiland — April 23, 2010 @ 9:17 am

  5. A joy to watch him pitch. Works fast, throws strikes, fields his position well, cares more about winning than his stats, humble, appreciates his own success, gets the most out of his talent, reliable for 32 starts and 200 innings. nice guy. It’s not well known outside Chicago but when they throw out those promotional first pitches, it’s Buehrle catching them four days out of five – he can’t do it when it’s his turn to start. I know that players play and coaches coach but young players could learn a lot about being a professional baseball player by watching him.

    I don’t know about the HOF. None of those things I mentioned hurt him, but not many of them count as much as a few thousand K’s or 300 wins. He needs to keep doing what he’s been doing for at least 5 or even 10 more years probably. But if he wants to keep pitching, soft throwing lefties that don’t get injured seem to have a habit of hanging around for a long time, so he’s got a shot.

    Comment by MikeS — April 23, 2010 @ 9:28 am

  6. What? Buehrle and his 85 mph fastball are products of steroids?

    Comment by DavidCEisen — April 23, 2010 @ 9:37 am

  7. Pitching match ups between Buehrle and Halladay must be among the quickest in the modern era.

    Comment by The Bunk — April 23, 2010 @ 9:51 am

  8. This exact question is always on my mind. Not if he’ll get there, I’m almost sure he will, but will he last long enough to get there. The “intangibles” are there for the old dudes and the stats are their for the savvy. I hope he makes it because it’s been a joy watching him pitch all these years, and I’m a sucker for happy endings.

    Comment by RonDom — April 23, 2010 @ 10:13 am

  9. FYI, it’s “wayside” not “waist side”. Sorry for a purely typographical reply

    Comment by Greg — April 23, 2010 @ 10:14 am

  10. Buehrle has indicated more than once that he is strongly contemplating retirement at the end of his current contract, which runs through the 2011 season. We’ll see…

    Comment by ecp — April 23, 2010 @ 10:29 am

  11. I’m a long time Braves fan, and I hate watching AL baseball. But I end up catching about 5-10 Buehrle games a year because watching him pitch is the closest I can get to the Maddux experience again.

    Comment by Temo — April 23, 2010 @ 10:32 am

  12. plus the first paragraph doesn’t make a whole lot of sense as is- seems like some punctuation is missing…

    Also, the sentence: “Buehrle works incredibly diligently.” is annoying, while i’m nitting it up. Two -ly’s in a row is weak, and draws attention to how weak of a term “incredibly” is these days, he certainly works diligently, but I see no reason his diligence should be described as incredible.

    Nit session aside- I wouldn’t have thought of Buerhle as a likely HOF guy until now, interesting. And yes, I’d love to volunteer as an editor for Fangraphs if you guys are interested in putting out more polished articles.

    Comment by Rodney King — April 23, 2010 @ 10:49 am

  13. I saw Buerhle vs Santana once (Johan). Got up to get a hot dog and a beer and missed 2 innings.

    Comment by MikeS — April 23, 2010 @ 11:18 am

  14. buehrle & mulder routinely matched up & hit the 90 minute mark a number of times, iirc.

    Comment by scott — April 23, 2010 @ 11:21 am

  15. I fondly remember Buehrle’s matchups with Mark Mulder back in 2003. Games completed in around 100 minutes.

    I fear the modern veteran (debut around 98-02) pitchers are going to have difficulty getting into the Hall unless they have 250+ wins and/or multiple CYAs. They are too likely to get compared to the Maddux/Pedro/Johnson group to get a fair shake. Halladay and Santana have a shot, Oswalt a minor chance, but I don’t think Buehrle is going to make it. Tim Hudson is probably in a similar boat, the lost season of games over 08-09 really cost him some valuable counting stats.

    Comment by William O'Brien — April 23, 2010 @ 11:24 am

  16. I can’t support a guy for the Hall of Fame if he was never really dominant. Buehrle has been a pretty good pitcher in his career, but was he better than Hershiser, Cone, Appier, Key, Guidry, or about a half dozen other pitchers from recent times? I don’t buy it, and he’d have to play for at least another 8-10 years to set himself apart from that group.

    Comment by Seels — April 23, 2010 @ 11:30 am

  17. Sure, in the meta sense that you have to raise the steroid question re any player of the past two decades.

    Then we’ll do the sensible thing and dismiss it, since we don’t know anything at all about his hypothetical use and whether or not it helped him even if it did.

    Comment by Kevin S. — April 23, 2010 @ 11:30 am

  18. Exactly. I haven’t heard anything connecting him to steroids, but I might’ve just missed it.

    My feeling about steroids in general is we just have to sort of assume every player was doing it during that period, and get over it. It happened, we didn’t like it, we’ve implemented changes to at least make us feel like it isn’t going on anymore, and there’s nothing we can do. Going back and playing whodunnit isn’t really going to accomplish anything. Lots of players who did steroids got busted or outed, lots who did them probably didn’t. Such is life.

    Comment by jackweiland — April 23, 2010 @ 11:55 am

  19. Agree completely.

    Comment by Kevin S. — April 23, 2010 @ 12:05 pm

  20. Mark Buehrle is also one of those pitchers who consistently outpitches his FIP. Using FIP to calculate his WAR is not going to reconcile against his actual performance.

    Why does he outpitch his FIP? He’s a great defender and controls the running game. I think you have to give him credit for that rather than just assigning it as “luck”.

    Comment by Dan — April 23, 2010 @ 12:06 pm

  21. Buehrle is arguably the best lefthanded whitesox pitcher since Billy Pierce.

    Comment by Muddy Waters — April 23, 2010 @ 12:18 pm

  22. I think the hall will eventually have to correct itself though, you can’t move forward with hitters getting in and barely any pitchers getting in. In the present, the consequence for the pitchers worthy of the recognition might be that they don’t get in for a really long time but eventually will when pitchers are reassessed.

    Comment by The Bunk — April 23, 2010 @ 12:28 pm

  23. As always, good stuff RJ.

    I wonder though, how much longer will he be able to go? He’s 31, doesn’t rely on power pitches, and has shown little to no signs of slowing. Could he make it another 5, 10 years? I think it’s possible.

    Comment by Bradley — April 23, 2010 @ 1:03 pm

  24. Excellent point.

    Comment by Bradley — April 23, 2010 @ 1:03 pm

  25. @Seels Are you retarded? No Hitter. Ring. Perfect Game. You don’t have to strikeout 20 people a game to be “dominant”

    Comment by Shutupnerds — April 23, 2010 @ 1:24 pm

  26. He is a little above average and resilient. But to even suggest HOF, with modern stats to back it up, is a severe indictment of those stats and indication that they are far from perfect.

    He is no Oswalt, and Oswalt himself will need to scrap just to be in the HOF conversation.

    Comment by chongo — April 23, 2010 @ 1:25 pm

  27. Wow. I would not have even imagined that there was a serious discussion on Buehrle making the HoF. Sure, everyone gets their “should he?” discussion, but people are talking as if he’s a lock (or solid vote) for entry, when he may not even record 200 wins.

    As a big fan of lefty pitchers (was one myself), Buehrle is at the top of my “currently pitching list”. But, Buehrle is not a dominant pitcher. He’s a good pitcher that is very consistent in his yearly performance. He may be underappreciated to some degree, may never get his full due, but I don’t think he deserves to be enshrined, even though I like him a ton.

    I know we do not give full credence to counting, carrer stats. But, if you don’t have cy young awards, strikeout titles, etc … then a player likely needs big career counting numbers. Seriously, he may not get to 200 wins. Enjoy mark Buehrle for what he is, which is a lot of good things. But, not for a Hall of Famer.

    Comment by CircleChange11 — April 23, 2010 @ 1:55 pm

  28. You don’t even need to be dominant to throw a no hitter, I saw Tom Browning do it once.

    You also don’t need to be dominant to get a ws ring. every year, about 15 pitchers get one.

    As much as I would like to see Buehrle in the “dominant” category, one would have to jumple the numbers around in a highly-finagled (?) way to show Buehrle as being dominant in his era as compared to his peers.

    Good … yes. Consistent … hell yes. Occassionally awesome … oh yeah. Dominant … nope.

    Comment by CircleChange11 — April 23, 2010 @ 1:58 pm

  29. Totally agree. You can be dominant for one night and throw a perfect game or no-hitter. But neither of these, nor a world series ring, is any sort of indicator of “career dominance”.

    Comment by Jason B — April 23, 2010 @ 2:14 pm

  30. This is an excellent point, and a good example of why WAR is a fantastic starting point for Hall of Fame debates, but is only the starting point. It gives you a nice framework of looking at about where players are, and allows you to separate obviously in and obviously out from the people worth talking about.

    Once you do that, look hard at every possible angle that matters and every possible element that could skew a stat like WAR.

    Comment by philkid3 — April 23, 2010 @ 2:18 pm

  31. How is it an indictment of the stats rather than an indictment of your opinion?

    Comment by philkid3 — April 23, 2010 @ 2:19 pm

  32. Why do you keep using wins?

    Comment by philkid3 — April 23, 2010 @ 2:20 pm

  33. I wouldn’t mind if Buehrle made the Hall. I know it’s a counting stat set apart from real value, but wins matter to the Hall and he’s averaging about 15 a year, which is pretty good. Good for 33-35 starts a year, 6+ innings a game. Doesn’t strike a ton of guys out, but he’s not a walk machine either. He’s been an All-Star a few times, has a Gold Glove and actually earned it, consistently around 120 ERA+, 12th in wins among active pitchers (and at least a year younger than everyone on the list, mostly several years or more)…

    I don’t know, he pitches pretty well for a guy who has a heater that might go back in time, it’s so slow. He’s got the ring, the no-no, the perfect game, he’s 14th among active pitchers in win-loss %, heck, he’s even 57th in K/9. That’s actually higher than I expected. A lot higher. 8th among active pitchers in ERA+ (though there’s a noticeable gap between him and the 7th spot, and he’s tied with Dan Haren at the moment). 10th among active pitchers in RE24, and 13th in WPA.

    Not a bad resume for Buehrle. Is he a HoFer right now? I’d guess not, he hasn’t been thunderously dominant, so his current body of work over 11-ish years isn’t enough. But if he keeps going at roughly this pace for another 5 seasons? Then you’re talking another 75 wins or so (sticking him around 205, 210 wins) and 1700 Ks and so on and it starts to look a little different, no? It’s presumptive, but if he maintains his current pace and effectiveness (which will be somewhat touchy as his fastball continues its continual decline in velocity and how he’s already a 9 H/9 pitcher), it’s something that could be reasonable.

    At least IMO, anyhow; he’s a good pitcher who produces well for his team and generally gives them a really good chance to win.

    That said, he’s going to be compared against the other pitchers of the 2000s who were really good. Really, REALLY good. How many guys can be better than him before we say he really shouldn’t make it based on his peers?

    Ignoring guys who are retired like Schilling, Randy Johnson, Roger Clemens, Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, Pedro Martinez and John Smoltz (who should all be mortal locks for the Hall), how many active pitchers are better than Buehrle?

    Off the top of my head, Santana and Halladay for sure. There are a bunch of other guys who’ve had at least a few seasons worth mentioning (Sabathia, Lincecum, etc). I’ll cut out Jake Peavy because despite his CYA season, he’s been injured too much to really make a case for himself IMO.

    There’s a pretty long list of guys who be considered about as good, though, even if we avoid newer pitchers. Oswalt’s already been discussed. He’s pitched in the NL, which makes the higher ERA+ and W/L% not so surprising, and likewise his higher K rate. In any case, he looks better statistically. Hudson’s been mentioned. Actually had a better ERA+ with the Athletics than with the Braves (although 06 and 09 are the two seasons really bringing that down on him). More Ks, comparable or better performance in the AL and in the NL so you can’t even make that argument, more wins… He’s got a career with an argument very similar to Buehrle’s except that he doesn’t have the no-no, the perfect game or the ring. You could throw Brandon Webb’s name out there. Again, he doesn’t have the single-game awesomeness Buehrle has but he’s got a CYA and a pair of 2nd-place finishes that aside (but he’d need more career longevity, of course, having pitched like 6 or 7 years so far).

    Josh Beckett? Not as many wins and certainly not in peoples’ heads right now because he’s been brutal so far but he’s got a couple of rings and some big performances to go with some Ks and over 100 wins. If he keeps playing like he did last year, or near to it, for another 5 years, he’ll have an argument not too far from Buehrle’s. Chris Carpenter would be a fringe guy because of all the injuries, but I thought I’d throw the name out.

    Andy Pettite? Another soft-throwing lefty (a little more juice than Buehrle, though)? 230+ wins, 2000+ Ks, a pair of 21-win seasons (and 4 seasons with 18+ wins), nearly 3000 IP… he’s a guy you have to look at with at least the same relative value as Buehrle. He’s got, what, 5 rings now? 18-9 with an ERA of 3.90 in the postseason…

    Tough call, and definitely too early to tell for Buerhle. I guess that was the short way of saying all I just said…

    Comment by Tyler — April 23, 2010 @ 2:23 pm

  34. Simple.

    In this instance I am using career wins as a big piece of data because the Hall of Fame DOES. We are talking about mark Buehrle and the HoF.

    It doesn;t seem reasonable to be using xFIP or any other metric as a major factor, when the HoF is going to look at “career wins” first.

    Comment by CircleChange11 — April 23, 2010 @ 2:49 pm

  35. I believe I was at that game in ’06.

    Comment by Big Daddy Kool — April 23, 2010 @ 4:04 pm

  36. Yeah, but Oswalt pitches in the 4A league…

    Comment by Pull T — April 23, 2010 @ 4:06 pm

  37. i think last year’s cy young recipients Grienke and Lincicum suggest the baseball community will not be looking at wins by the time #56 is eligible for Cooperstown. Everyone on this site knows wins are a failed metric. and that there exist pitchers who consistently beat their FIP through superior pitch placement. It’s been a pleasure to watch buehrle’s career. His glove is superior. His control of the run game is unmatched, particularly with the scrub catchers he has worked with. It’s hard to win Cy Youngs when you pitch in the same division as CC and Johan. Fucking Steve Stone won a Cy Young and his career was mediocre at best. I fully expect 56 to throw another no no, top 200 IP, exemplify class act, and redefine how we look at the term “ace”. his era+ suggests he is just as good as other cy young recipients if he played in an NL West joke park rather than spending his whole career in the launching pad US Cellular. Soooo much love for an unsung hero.

    Comment by James K — April 23, 2010 @ 4:42 pm

  38. It’s the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Stats. He’s famous! (and for the right reasons)

    Who better embodies the White Sox of the last decade?

    Regardless, he makes the first ballot vote for the Hall of “guys that I’d drink a beer with”.

    Comment by judas — April 23, 2010 @ 4:43 pm

  39. who better embodies the white sox of the last decade? You could make a case for Frank Thomas.

    Comment by SF 55 for life — April 23, 2010 @ 5:18 pm

  40. In the 1990’s. Thomas only played for the White Sox in half the last decade and was hurt for three of those seasons. From 2001 – 2010 it’s pretty much Buehrle or Konerko. No other choices.

    Comment by MikeS — April 23, 2010 @ 5:28 pm

  41. Ozzie Guillen

    Comment by Steven Ellingson — April 23, 2010 @ 5:34 pm

  42. Buehrle Hall of Fame talk is way premature before he has even 200 wins. Tommy John was a similar pitcher to Buehrle and pitched twice as long, and he’s still only pulling 30% of the vote.

    Comment by Brian — April 23, 2010 @ 6:40 pm

  43. Not for very long, you weren’t. But I’m sure you enjoyed it.

    Comment by MikeS — April 23, 2010 @ 7:14 pm

  44. True, but given that there are a dozen or more pitchers who are clearly better and a bunch of guys on top of that who are roughly as good, Buehrle is going to have to do something noticeable to get himself into the Hall. There are better pitchers who haven’t made it. He probably should be in for a lot of the subjective reasons that aren’t quantitative, but it’s not always enough.

    Comment by Tyler — April 23, 2010 @ 7:30 pm

  45. I love Buehrle. I’m glad you wrote about him.

    I’ve been yakking since Randy Johnson won 300 and yet again, we had to endure the BS claims that 300 wins will never happen again, blah,blah,blah….

    Buehrle is exactly what a 300 game winner looks like. Durable, good, wins games consistently. AND, he has to win a bunch of games well into his 30s and probably past 40. That is exactly the profile of nearly all 300 game winners. That is the profile of Buehrle.

    Comment by TedWilson — April 23, 2010 @ 11:41 pm

  46. Is Jamie Moyer a future Hall of Famer?

    I don’t think he is, despite eye-popping quantity stats (especially the ones the Hall looks at like career wins and career strikeouts), because he’s only rarely been an ace and has mostly ranged from middle-rotation starter to back-rotation starter.

    But if you think Moyer is a future Hall of Famer, then sure, Buerhle could be if he pitches another 5-10 years or more.

    Comment by OremLK — April 24, 2010 @ 12:41 am

  47. Can’t we all just get along?

    Comment by knightni — April 24, 2010 @ 1:50 am

  48. He’s talking about players, Steve. Not managers.

    Comment by knightni — April 24, 2010 @ 1:52 am

  49. Case in point: Josh Towers has a WS ring. Dominant? Ha!

    Comment by 198d — April 24, 2010 @ 4:11 am

  50. A few years ago, I went to a fireworks night game in Oakland, started by Buehrle and Barry Zito. The two worked so quickly that at the end of the game, we had to wait for it to get dark before the fireworks show could begin. This was a night game that was over before it got dark.

    Comment by Patrick Newman — April 24, 2010 @ 11:36 am

  51. ….how about John Lackey? HOF’r? (same career WAR as Buerhle, one year older and he has a better FIP) Or better yet… Carlos Zambrano (assuming he does not flourish in his setup role and becomes a starter again)…. he’s got about the same WAR and is 2 years younger. Where’s the Dan Haren… HOF’r article? If these guys all pitch similar amounts of time to the what-if you’re doing with Buerhle, surely these guys will be right in the discussion too?

    # of tiimes Buehrle has been in the Top 10 in WAR:
    2005 (7th)
    2002 (10th)

    He’s had an xFIP under 4 just twice in his career.

    The Hall needs to be more than just stat accumulators… I cringe when WAR is thrown out as a strawman to start a discussion – how many years has Buerhle considered in the Top 3 among starters? Top 5? Heck, Top 10?

    Comment by Hank — April 24, 2010 @ 11:45 pm

  52. @ Rodney King… You forgot to capitalize the “w” at the beginning of your sentence: “while i’m nitting it up.” which is an incomplete sentence by the way… Whoops!…Oh, I just noticed that you also didn’t capitalize the first letter of the following sentence…You might want to work on those things before applying for editor.

    Comment by Derick Willis — April 25, 2010 @ 6:25 am

  53. Sorry Derick Willis, nice try, but “while I’m nitting it up” isn’t actually a sentence, as you’ll notice if you look closely at that bit of punctuation after “annoying.” It is, in fact, a comma, not a period. And he did capitalize the next sentence, but he forgot to capitalize the “I” in the word “I’m” in his sentence “while i’m nitting it up” (sic).

    However, the sentence beginning with “Two -ly’s…” and ending with “…described as incredible” is a run-on sentence. A period should be placed after “these days,” and the “he” should have a capitalized “H” at its beginning.

    I will agree, though, that Rodney did definitely come across as a bit of a douche with his “nitty-ness,” particularly with his offer of his services as an editor (though I’m guessing that was “said” tongue-in-cheek).

    Anyways, yes, Buerhle is awesome. He’s actually (I just realized) one of my favourite pitchers in the majors right now. I loved his matchup against Ryan Rowland-Smith last year. Goodness, those innings flew by!

    Comment by mattlock — April 26, 2010 @ 3:16 am

  54. Define “dominant.”

    Comment by mattlock — April 26, 2010 @ 3:18 am

  55. The question isn’t whether he’s going to be voted in, but whether he will deserve to be voted in. Thus considering wins in the discussion simply because the HoF voters will consider them is, as always, a stupid way of evaluating a pitchers performance.

    Comment by mattlock — April 26, 2010 @ 3:22 am

  56. Actually, Lackey doesn’t have the same career WAR at all. Pitcher WAR on the player pages only goes back to ’03 (used to be ’02, not sure what’s up with that), but looking at the WAR here lops off an extra two years of Buehrle’s career than it does Lackey’s. Going off of Rally’s database, Buehrle’s got Lackey comfortably out-WARed, 39-25.

    Comment by Kevin S. — April 26, 2010 @ 7:04 am

  57. Buehrle’s the type of pitcher who has the durability and consistency to be a viable candidate, but who will need exceptional longevity to be taken seriously. He has the memorable moments to add highlights to his resume, but he lacks the otherworldly peak that’s typically required for pitchers lacking the milestone numbers. He certainly could retain his effectiveness into his late 30’s or early 40’s, but unless he puts together a couple Cy Young caliber seasons, he’s only at about the halfway point toward even being considered.

    Comment by WilsonC — April 26, 2010 @ 10:49 am

  58. Any prognostications on the % of votes Buehrle receives on his first ballot?

    **Disclaimers-and-caveats-to-head-off-nittiness-and-other-such-douchebaggery: I know his career isn’t over yet, and it depends on how he does over the remainder of his career, however long that may be. And a lot depends on who else is on the ballot with him when he arrives. And some people want to discuss “should he”, not “will he”. Was just seeing how people think he will fare the first time around.

    /End disclaimer/

    I’ll guess 9%.

    Comment by Jason B — April 26, 2010 @ 12:16 pm

  59. Didn’t his match up with Jake Westbrook in the season opener last just over two hours? It’s always fun to watch guys work that fast, but it’s also fun to watch pitchers play head games with the batters using their timing and vice versa.

    I’m a Cleveland fan but always liked Buehrle as he seems to always quietly put up solid season after solid season.

    Comment by Chris — April 26, 2010 @ 5:08 pm

  60. So….anybody still pushing tha HOF ballot for him? Or is this season’s sample atypical?

    Comment by chongo — June 9, 2010 @ 10:37 am

  61. I love Buehrle, but, seriously, the HOF? Does being merely one of the top 20 pitchers in the league for a decade or so make you even in that DISCUSSION? Even with another 5 reasonably solid years, I still don’t think Buehrle is in. I’m not even sure he’s ever really been an “ace”, however you define that.

    Comment by Felonius_Monk — June 9, 2010 @ 1:16 pm

  62. If Buehrle is even being discussed, what does this say about Andy Pettitte? He must be a lock! He’s got the same career era, 100 more wins with only 30 more losses, 5 WS rings, the most playoff wins in history, 2000+ K, spent most of his career pitching in the toughest division in baseball, etc.

    ….I don’t think either are HOFers though. ….and I say that as a Yankees and Pettitte fan. …they are both very good pitchers. What is a HOF pitcher? Pedro Martinez, Greg Maddux, Randy Johnson, Mariano Rivera. They are obvious. No obscure arguments needed.

    Comment by Jason — June 9, 2010 @ 6:02 pm

  63. “So….anybody still pushing tha HOF ballot for him? Or is this season’s sample atypical?”

    Not at all unusual for a control pitcher in his early 30’s to see his K rate drop significantly below the league average. See Frank Viola, Mike Hampton, and Dennis Leonard, 3 guys on Buehrle’s comp list.

    Comment by John DiFool — June 9, 2010 @ 8:17 pm

  64. Mark Buehrle – the most surprising 300-win candidate of baseball history.

    Before you laugh, toss it around your mind a little. With the stuff Buehrle works with, it’s not altogether unreasonable that he could keep pitching another ten to twelve seasons after this one. Move him to somewhere like Petco Park via Free Agency once the Sox start to rebuild, and that will cut down his HR’s allowed, allowing him to maintain effectiveness. The guy just consistently wins 12-15 games per year. He’s already going to be around 150 wins after this year. 12 more years * 12 wins per year = 144 wins. Scarily close if he can have that longevity. Obviously, he has to see this as a huge/significant personal milestone for him to keep pitching that long, but it’s definitely possible.

    Comment by Dan — August 12, 2010 @ 7:06 pm

  65. Mark Buehrle is certainly a hall of fame candidate in my book. For one, not many pitchers have thrown a no hitter let alone a not hitter and perfect game. He has hit a home run. Something many pitchers have never done. He has two gold gloves to his name. He is consistently one of the top if not top pitchers in pick-offs. He is one of those pitchers that can dictate the outcome of a game on any night he hits the mound. Isn’t the hall of fame for guys that have changed the game or have impacted it greatly. Some of Mark Buehrle’s greatness have certainly changed the way pitchers are seen much in the way greg maddux did when he was on the mount. Maddux was a guy who did not strike a lot of guys out he hit his spots and thats how he won. I would vote for buehrle but that’s just me!…

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  74. the case for buehrle’s dominance: he holds the ALL-TIME mlb record for consecutive batters retired at 45; he and cc are the ONLY active pitchers w 10+ consecutive seasons w 10+ wins. for another example re: where he stands all-time: ALL pitchers w a perfecto and another no-no are HOFers and he may be the only pitcher EVER w multiple no-nos and multiple gold gloves. he CONTROLS games (his no-no was a BB away from being another perfecto – and then he promptly picked the dude off)…he just doesn’t do it w a “dominating” fastball.

    Comment by nate — June 19, 2013 @ 7:40 am

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