Hillman was a butcher as a first hand witness (Twins fan). It’s helped me appreciate what we do have in Gardy.
That being said, the company I work for is doing some re-org and many leaders were essentially re-interviewing for their job as a result, and some I think generally respected people seem to have lost out and others who were less respected lost out. It’s hard to find comfort in that result given you see people on both end of the spectrum’s end up without work.
It’s just not fun to watch others encounter that adversity, for me anyway.
Best of luck to Mr. Hillman and those Seniored people at work who are now trying to find that next thing.
Not really very. Hillman was a poor manager, but he was just a symptom of the larger problem. It’s just a sign of how terrible the team is. Yes, it means the organization is probably a step closer to cleaning house, but in the mean time, there’s much losing ahead, which sucks.
I, on the other hand will dance in the streets when and if Tweedledumb (Bruce Bochy) and Tweedledumber (Brian Sabean) ever get the firings that they truly deserve.
Baseball management is such an inefficient market though that it may be possible for these two hacks to remain employed for much longer than anyone with a brain can believe possible.
Comment by Sabean's Folly — May 14, 2010 @ 12:27 am
Odds on Kila starting tomorrow night (and batting down in the order a bit instead of cleanup like last week – “Oh, 0 fer 3, I gave the kid a chance, back to Hosey.”).
I think the point about the situation is a good one. Seems to me that going into a situation like KC’s is always going to lead a manger to over-manage. This really just another way of saying they lose the ability to think rationally. In a way I think this situation is harder to handle than being Yankees manager. I get that there is a ton of pressure in New York, but I think the pressure in a situation like the Royals’ is a type of negative pressure that leads otherwise normal people to turn into Planet Hillman.
Get a clue boys — it wasn’t the managing. Look at the roster. Your big acquisitions are Podsednik (34 yr old .270 outfielder), a 37 year old catcher who’s basically a .240 hitter now, and a pitcher turned outfielder, Ankiel who’s a backup… oh, wait, I forgot, your “stud” returning outfielder has played for about 18 different teams! Anyway — it was a matter of time, any baseball person could see that they handed him what amounts to a ginned up AAA club. Whoever “built” this club is who should be fired, not Trey.
I don’t think anyone claimed that the team’s performance was Hillman’s fault, so I’m not sure who you’re arguing with, Skitch. The team IS a bunch of scrubs, has-been’s, and never-were’s. Additionally, Trey Hillman was overwhelmed and incompetent. The two are not mutually exclusive.
Comment by 3rd Period Points — May 14, 2010 @ 3:54 am
“You’ve read the sabermetric ‘managers don’t matter all that much’ thing before”
I tend to agree with this, but not in Hillman’s case. If you were to track all managers bonehead decisions, most would be even out over time, but Hillman made so many mind boggling mistakes he could never get that much luck to overcome them. He has easily cost this team 4 wins this year.
They have a better wOBA than the Rays and are scoring 1.5 fewer runs a game. Part is poor execution, but part is constantly giving away outs. And giving away outs from a better hitter so a lesser hitter gets the opportunity.
His bullpen management was ridiculous. Anytime someone got on base, he’d panic. They have 88 inherited runners, 25 more than the next team. And he was always bringing in a lesser pitcher to relieve a better pitcher and it was hardly ever because of a platoon advantage.
4 more wins has them at 16-19, 74 win pace. If Yost is halfway competent, that is probably the pace they’ll continue at. They’re not good, but 70 wins is what I’d guess they end the season instead of their current 55 win pace.
This argument kinda sucks. You cherry-pick the Rays who have been awesome in the clutch and bad in the non-clutch, so of course the Rays have a better runs:wOBA ratio. Not to mention, bad managerial decisions should factor into a lower wOBA (giving away outs), so that shouldn’t factor into such an argument. “Poor execution” sounds like bad luck to me. Also, I highly doubt he cost them 4 wins. Maybe it seems that way, but certainly not in expectation, ie. bringing in reliever A vs. reliever B in a high leverage situation and reliever A loses. Even if a dumb decision, this did not “cost” the team a win in expectation.
I have nothing to say about the bullpen management. I’ll take your word that he wasn’t very good at it.
Bunting runners over in the first couple innings of games when the game was even, or they are up or down a run is just plain stupid. I Hillman do that several times this year just against the Twins. There are players on that team that know better. It’s gotta be disheartening when you work for someone who doesn’t know what they’re doing.
The real question is, will Ned Yost have his first player meeting with Billy Butler and tell him he’s not a second baseman? Hillman was just thrilled to have his (should be) DH hitting an empty .330. He is right back where he was in the first half last season, and this is not luck or park effect. Until his manager sits him down and tells him it’s big boy time and to stop popping line drives over the second baseman’s head with nobody on and a 2-0 count, he will never consistently hit for any power. Which makes him useless as a DH. Free Kila! Bring Hosmer with a quickness!
I feel like most fans of most teams complain about their manager (and their 3rd base coach!) a lot – heck, studies have shown that Tony LaRussa is one of the best managers in the game in terms of getting his players to overachieve, but he’s also one of the most criticized managers in terms of in-game decisionmaking. That said, as a non-AL Central fan, I think Hillman is one of the worst managers when it comes to pitcher management.
The latest example – a couple of days ago, Gil Meche had a game where he gave up 6 hits, 7 walks, and struck out 3. Somehow he limited the damage to only 3 earned runs. Guess what? Hillman left him in the game for 8 innings and *128 pitches*. This is a guy who was on the disabled list in April with a shoulder injury. It’s one thing when Roy Halladay throws 133 pitches in a game where he records 14 strikeouts and 1 walk, as he did on June 2, 2009 (amazingly he threw a complete game shutout with only 97 pitches in his next start). But it’s objectively stupid to leave a pitcher – with recent injury concerns – in for 128 pitches in a game where he was pretty much ineffective.
You should take our word on the rest of it, also, because yeah, he probably really did cost the team, over a schedule of 162 games, probably about 3-4 each season with his lineup’s/in-game strategy/bullpen management. It just really was that bad with him. No exaggeration.
The most ridiculously stupid, short-sighted, and useless article ever. Don’t ever compare yourself to Sam Mellinger and Rany again. FanGraphs is a disgrace. Just change your name to Anti Dayton Moore / Anti Royals. As you obviously, once again, as in every Royals article written by the FanGraphs crew, failed to mention the facts about Dayton Moore, and every move he makes. FanGraphs is truly worse than Corporate News, and that’s just sad.
Go with your Posnanaski buddies and plot your Dayton Moore takedown a little further.
FYI: It’s not working. Moore’s leash hasn’t been shortened. His five year extension didn’t come on a misguided thought that David Glass thought the Royals were a competitive team this year.
“Hey, Rick Ankiel! Can you say AL Pennant?……no”
Everyone went into the season knowing more than likely it was going to be a sub 500 team, and Moore’s extension didn’t come from a little fairy tale that we’ll compete much in 2010.
All you’re doing is grabbing the same idiots who listen(ed) to Steve Phillips and Joe Morgan all day. It’s going nowhere.
Funny that you would use fan-favorite stats-analyzing Bannister as your moniker then rant–with a general lack of coherence–against such analysis on a site where statistical analysis is being used as a foundation for discussion. If this were your first meaningless rant, I would just ignore like usual. But this time I’m more annoyed.
1. For someone who’s looking for “facts” this seems like a pretty silly thing to claim.
2. He didn’t compare himself to Rany, Poz, etc. If anything he suggested that the readers consult them for more-detailed insight.
3. I suppose “disgrace” is in the eye of the beholder.
4. Once again, I’ll suggest that, instead, maybe Dayton Moore should change HIS name to “Anti-FanGraphs”.
5. Maybe you could enlighten as to just what “facts” have been omitted?
6. Now THAT is kind of an interesting thing to say. Hard to rebut a claim with no factual basis or evidence presented, but if everyone else thinks one thing, and YOU think the other….
7. I don’t know if I’m a “Posnanski Buddy”, but we already have a plot — it’s called The Process.
I’ll stop there b/c at least you get a little more, well, not “coherent”, but “presentable”. Of course Moore’s leash has been shortened: the team has not improved and Moore had to fire his choice of managers.