Currently this is looking like Huntington’s worst trade so far, especially since both Kevin Hart and Jose Ascanio, the two players he received back from the Cubs, are both out for the year after having labrum surgery.
Oh, and they’re both out of options after this year, I believe.
I never really thought of Gorzelanny as having the same kind of upside as Perez. His good year was good, not great, as you point out. And in close to 400 IP in the majors, his K/9 was below 6. In the minors it was better (8.6), but not incredible. Which is not to say it made sense to trade him, but it would seem to be hard to predict such a drastic rise in strikeouts.
who said he had to fulfill the promise of being a #2 starter? considering he is technically a #5 starter at this point and just came back to the rotation out of the pen.
I could be remembering it wrong but I think Gorzelanny had some issues with the Pirates coaches/management so that may have also played into the decision to trade him rather than give him more time to get it together.
I’ve been confused by Gorzelanny quite a bit the last two years. It seemed like he had a really nice season in AAA, but the Pirates wanted no part of him in the majors last year. After the trade the Cubs plugged him right into the rotation. Now he’s having a pretty decent season with the Cubs and they’ve already pulled him from the rotation twice. It just seems like they don’t like him for some reason.
oh please, the first time they pulled him he was only in there because of injuries. this second time, they left him in the rotation and pulled Zambrano and everyone said the cubs were crazy not to pull him.
I thought he was only pulled from the rotation once, and that was to give Big Z his starting job back. He was put back into the rotation when Z was put on the restricted list. He will keep his starting job from here on out barring any ridiculous negative stats. I assume he will take over lilly’s spot in the rotation when available. Cubs should trade Marmol and put Z in the closer spot for the remainder of the year and pray someone wants him after we eat half his salary.
“Strangely, it was only the 159th time since 1920 that a pitcher went five innings, walked six, and still got the win.”
This has my early vote for obscure stat citation of the year. Any other contenders?
Now I am curious how many times a pitcher has gone six innings, had at least one hit-by-pitch and exactly seven hits, but had a no decision. This is going to be bug me ALL evening!
Actually, I think Tom G has been there for several weeks now. Naturally the stats geeks are late to the party, waiting for their sample size to roll in. Just watch him and note the difference.
A part of me wants StL to get Big Z (with CHC eating a bulk of his contract) and see what Duncan can do with having Z pound the zone with sinkers and cutters.
StL has had a “Zambrano type” before, his name was J. Andujar. Youneverknow.
I do think a new voice would help Z no matter who it is. He has totally got away from throwing his sinker but part of that is that it’s nowhere near the pitch it once was. Instead of a 94 MPH sinker, he’s throwing 90. He’s basically Derek Lowe.
Tom G was real good in the rotation the first two months.
Gorzellany had his inning count jump up to 200 innings for the first time in 2007. Before he had never been above 150. Since he hasn’t been back to 200. Obviously these guys have to make a jump in their workload at some point, but I thought there was some kind of guideline about how many innings to increase year to year.
It may be safe to say that Gorz had a negative reaction to a higher workload. Pittsburgh was apparently exhausted with him as a prospect. He has since rebounded with a fresher arm. I remember most fans were happy with Grabow/Gorz trade because of Gorz’s inclusion. Nice move by the FO to get him as a throw in.
I don’t think it’s very fair to take Gorz to task for his last start against the D-backs – he’s been in the pen for awhile and it still being stretched back out
The Pirates got Kevin Hart and (prospect) Josh Harrison in return.
On paper, it didn’t look like too bad a trade. Hart had a 5.44 ERA last year compared to Gorzelanny’s 5.55 (after his rehab in the minor leagues).
Hart also had 4-2 winning record with the Cubs at the time he was traded. So on that basis, trading one for the other, and getting a prospect to boot, seemed like a good deal.
But that was misleading, because last year, Gorzelanny also had a FIP of 3.97, hinting at better things to come. Meanwhile, Hart’s FIP of 5.36 fully supported his weak ERA. (These numbers were similar to the metrics in place at the time of the trade.)
Gorzo has since improved to a 3.31 ERA, and Hart’s future is in doubt. So the Pirates traded a potential first starter for a fifth starter (maybe) and the prospect.
Unless the prospects turns out to be “lights out.”
Keenan says:
July 6, 2010 at 1:40 pm
Currently this is looking like Huntington’s worst trade so far, especially since both Kevin Hart and Jose Ascanio, the two players he received back from the Cubs, are both out for the year after having labrum surgery.
Oh, and they’re both out of options after this year, I believe.
BS says:
July 6, 2010 at 1:45 pm
Is Gorzelanny really considered a hard throwing lefty? I’d always considered him to be more of the crafty sort.
Joe Pawlikowski says:
July 6, 2010 at 1:53 pm
He’s not at this point, I guess. Baseball America always had him at 91-93 and hitting 95 or so. It appears he’s a bit below that, though.
Ben Hall says:
July 6, 2010 at 2:09 pm
I never really thought of Gorzelanny as having the same kind of upside as Perez. His good year was good, not great, as you point out. And in close to 400 IP in the majors, his K/9 was below 6. In the minors it was better (8.6), but not incredible. Which is not to say it made sense to trade him, but it would seem to be hard to predict such a drastic rise in strikeouts.
oompaloopma says:
July 6, 2010 at 2:14 pm
who said he had to fulfill the promise of being a #2 starter? considering he is technically a #5 starter at this point and just came back to the rotation out of the pen.
Neal says:
July 6, 2010 at 2:18 pm
I could be remembering it wrong but I think Gorzelanny had some issues with the Pirates coaches/management so that may have also played into the decision to trade him rather than give him more time to get it together.
oompaloopma says:
July 6, 2010 at 3:46 pm
I think it was just the fact he was on the pirates!
GrouchoM says:
July 6, 2010 at 4:23 pm
Fire Jim Hendry, right Bryan?
Bill says:
July 6, 2010 at 4:42 pm
I’ve been confused by Gorzelanny quite a bit the last two years. It seemed like he had a really nice season in AAA, but the Pirates wanted no part of him in the majors last year. After the trade the Cubs plugged him right into the rotation. Now he’s having a pretty decent season with the Cubs and they’ve already pulled him from the rotation twice. It just seems like they don’t like him for some reason.
MM says:
July 6, 2010 at 5:06 pm
oh please, the first time they pulled him he was only in there because of injuries. this second time, they left him in the rotation and pulled Zambrano and everyone said the cubs were crazy not to pull him.
oompaloopma says:
July 6, 2010 at 5:34 pm
I thought he was only pulled from the rotation once, and that was to give Big Z his starting job back. He was put back into the rotation when Z was put on the restricted list. He will keep his starting job from here on out barring any ridiculous negative stats. I assume he will take over lilly’s spot in the rotation when available. Cubs should trade Marmol and put Z in the closer spot for the remainder of the year and pray someone wants him after we eat half his salary.
Mark says:
July 6, 2010 at 6:40 pm
“Strangely, it was only the 159th time since 1920 that a pitcher went five innings, walked six, and still got the win.”
This has my early vote for obscure stat citation of the year. Any other contenders?
Now I am curious how many times a pitcher has gone six innings, had at least one hit-by-pitch and exactly seven hits, but had a no decision. This is going to be bug me ALL evening!
TedWilson says:
July 6, 2010 at 6:51 pm
Actually, I think Tom G has been there for several weeks now. Naturally the stats geeks are late to the party, waiting for their sample size to roll in. Just watch him and note the difference.
Hey geeks, watch the game once in awhile
CircleChange11 says:
July 6, 2010 at 9:16 pm
A part of me wants StL to get Big Z (with CHC eating a bulk of his contract) and see what Duncan can do with having Z pound the zone with sinkers and cutters.
StL has had a “Zambrano type” before, his name was J. Andujar. Youneverknow.
jason l says:
July 6, 2010 at 9:19 pm
Ted, go check some game logs…. he’s only been back in the rotation since June 30th, before that he had spent a month in the pen.
Hey grizzled old baseball fans, go check the numbers once in a while.
MM says:
July 7, 2010 at 1:15 am
I do think a new voice would help Z no matter who it is. He has totally got away from throwing his sinker but part of that is that it’s nowhere near the pitch it once was. Instead of a 94 MPH sinker, he’s throwing 90. He’s basically Derek Lowe.
Tom G was real good in the rotation the first two months.
Ron Mexico says:
July 7, 2010 at 3:16 am
I can’t tell if you’re serious but the answer is 277.
jumbo says:
July 7, 2010 at 6:03 am
Gorzellany had his inning count jump up to 200 innings for the first time in 2007. Before he had never been above 150. Since he hasn’t been back to 200. Obviously these guys have to make a jump in their workload at some point, but I thought there was some kind of guideline about how many innings to increase year to year.
It may be safe to say that Gorz had a negative reaction to a higher workload. Pittsburgh was apparently exhausted with him as a prospect. He has since rebounded with a fresher arm. I remember most fans were happy with Grabow/Gorz trade because of Gorz’s inclusion. Nice move by the FO to get him as a throw in.
jumbo says:
July 7, 2010 at 6:05 am
I believe Duncan could have a CY winner if Z ended up on the Cards.
berselius says:
July 7, 2010 at 9:40 am
I don’t think it’s very fair to take Gorz to task for his last start against the D-backs – he’s been in the pen for awhile and it still being stretched back out
Tom Au says:
July 7, 2010 at 2:41 pm
The Pirates got Kevin Hart and (prospect) Josh Harrison in return.
On paper, it didn’t look like too bad a trade. Hart had a 5.44 ERA last year compared to Gorzelanny’s 5.55 (after his rehab in the minor leagues).
Hart also had 4-2 winning record with the Cubs at the time he was traded. So on that basis, trading one for the other, and getting a prospect to boot, seemed like a good deal.
But that was misleading, because last year, Gorzelanny also had a FIP of 3.97, hinting at better things to come. Meanwhile, Hart’s FIP of 5.36 fully supported his weak ERA. (These numbers were similar to the metrics in place at the time of the trade.)
Gorzo has since improved to a 3.31 ERA, and Hart’s future is in doubt. So the Pirates traded a potential first starter for a fifth starter (maybe) and the prospect.
Unless the prospects turns out to be “lights out.”
Tom Au says:
July 7, 2010 at 2:42 pm
Unfortunately, that’s probably true.