FanGraphs Baseball

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  1. lame/unfunny #6org jab

    Comment by D.J.F — August 13, 2010 @ 4:56 pm

  2. package him with danks for jose lopez. get it done kenny.

    Comment by kwmozez — August 13, 2010 @ 5:29 pm

  3. Luis Gonzalez also made a huge jump between his age 29 and 30 seasons, nearly doubling his ISO. Scarily, he nearly doubled it AGAIN for his big age 33 season.

    Comment by Brandon — August 13, 2010 @ 6:03 pm

  4. But he wasn’t on steroids…..

    Comment by West — August 13, 2010 @ 7:39 pm

  5. Can we please have a series on veteran AAA players with Torres like potential?

    As a fan of a Dodger team that is financially strapped and has a big whole at 3rd base, it would be great to know what the best of the minor leagues has to offer. A list of guys like the Dodger’s John Lindsey would be awesome.

    Comment by Chair — August 13, 2010 @ 9:13 pm

  6. Seriously it would be awesome. We all know about prospects, give us more dark horse major leaguers

    Comment by Chair — August 13, 2010 @ 9:17 pm

  7. Thats hardly an accurate account of Gonzalez’s ISO.

    His ISO from age 27-35: .178, .172, .118, .208, .213, .233, .363, .208, .228

    His age 29 season was his lowest career ISO, and his age 33 season wasn’t that out of the trend of his early career. His age 33 was a lot higher than any other year (50%, not 100% as you said, though), but it immediately went back down to the low .200′s.

    Comment by DavidCEisen — August 14, 2010 @ 3:05 pm

  8. Actually there is likely not going to be a next Torres, just like there was no ‘next’ Cliff Lee.

    Comment by DavidCEisen — August 14, 2010 @ 3:06 pm

  9. Here’s what we’re learning …

    If you’re gonna be a “slappy” ground ball speedster type hitter … you better be Vince Coleman or Ichiro to make it work. Most guys aren’t Vince or Ichiro fast.

    The undersized fast guys often are taught to “walk” or “hit a grounder”. Since they don’t have power and are a threat to steal, pitchers refuse to walk them, so they’re forced to do it all with speed, which isn’t likely to be successful.

    As you climb baseball through the higher levels, the defenses get better … and your chances of racking up infield hits and blooper singles go way down.

    These guys usually have good bat control, so the idea of getting them to use hip rotation to drive the ball harder (as oppossed to spap as you’re focused on getting out of the box quickly) and/or further isn’t that far fetched … especially if they have moved into their “mature body” at 27 (and not a 20yo string-bean).

    What Andres Torres did was “learn how to it” by talking to a guy that has exmained tons of hitters and noted what they actually do at the plate. Then he went out and practiced it over and over, until it became his “swing” … and he has had a lot of success.

    Combine some increase power with their speed, and their likely great defense, and there might be a whole host of guys with the potential to make a splash in WAR.

    Calling Torres a “fluke” or treating it as if something that won’t happen again, is to not understand HOW it happened and WHY (IMO).

    Comment by CircleChange11 — August 14, 2010 @ 10:05 pm

  10. “His ISO from age 27-35: .178, .172, .118, .208, .213, .233, .363, .208, .228″

    Thta’s like Seame Street–One of these things is not like the others. Andres “learned how to do it” alright. So did Marlon Byrd and half of the Jays

    Comment by rick11p — August 14, 2010 @ 10:24 pm

  11. There’s no mention of it being a fluke, just that it’s the exception, not the rule. How often it happens, not how it happens. Perhaps it’ll happen more often if more guys get the right swing doctor and have the aptitude.

    Comment by wobatus — August 15, 2010 @ 7:27 am

  12. Was wondering when someone would toss Byrd’s name in there.

    Comment by AB — August 15, 2010 @ 12:43 pm

  13. I said nearly doubled: .118 to .208 is a 76% increase, .208 to .363 is a 75% increase. Perhaps “nearly” was a bit generous, but certainly not out and out erroneous. By bad for not looking further back, though, that I agree with — I just vaguely remembered him as a slap hitter who blew up suddenly.

    Comment by Brandon — August 15, 2010 @ 2:29 pm

  14. Actually there is likely not going to be a next Torres, just like there was no ‘next’ Cliff Lee.

    My comment is in response to this.

    There will be another “Torres”, just like there will be another Ryan Ludwick or Garrett Jones, and there may be another “Cliff Lee” (guy that goes to the minors and returns as a really good pitcher).

    In baseball, there is hardly ever “one of anything”. I wouldn’t even say there’ll never be another Rick Ankiel.

    To me, it is a sad commentary on coaching in professional baseball, when guys like Ben Zobrist and Andres Torres have to go to an individual instructor outside of their organization in order to get hitting instruction.

    Comment by CircleChange11 — August 15, 2010 @ 8:36 pm

  15. Realistically, Cliff Lee was the next Roy Halladay. Both had great campaigns early in their career, but had to return to the minors to make adjustments. In fact, I believe that Halladay went all the way back to Hi-A before returning as a potential/likely HOF’er.

    The ebb and flow of this game dictates that their are very few truly “unique” situations, which is a testament to how cyclical this game can be. Of course there will be another Andres Torres, there was a Travis Hafner, Jack Cust.

    If I were to make a bet, I think I’d go with Daniel Nava as a potentially valuable (3.5+ WAR player) that essentially came from nowhere, but predicting these types of turnarounds is a good practice in futility.

    Comment by nmh — August 16, 2010 @ 11:51 am

  16. Well, for one night at least he sure was a nice player for the Mariners.

    Comment by joser — April 12, 2011 @ 2:42 pm

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