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  1. First of all, the Twins led all of baseball in double plays with 159. The Yankees didn’t even come in the top 10.

    Mchael Cuddyer was 2nd in the AL with 26, and the former MVP Joe Mauer had 20. Keep that in mind too. Although I do not know the percentage rates, maybe Jeter is higher but not sure.

    Also Carl Pavano is amongst one of the top AL pitchers who allows stolen bases. If Gardner gets on base, expect him to be on 2nd base easily whenever Jeter comes to bat and Pavano on the mound, unless there is a runner on 2nd to to begin with.

    Comment by Mike — October 5, 2010 @ 8:36 am

  2. That’s nice and all, but that wasn’t the point of the post. Those four pitchers pitch for the Twins, not the Yankees.

    Comment by bro — October 5, 2010 @ 8:42 am

  3. I understand “bro”, but it’s like saying only the Yankees are threatened to ground into a lot of double plays. The Twins led the majors in hitting into the most double plays.

    Also it should be noted, Jeter is 5-13 (3 for 8 this year and no DP) off Liriano and 4-10 off Pavano (Not faced this year)

    Cano is 2-5 off BAker this year and both hits were doubles, although he does have 1 DP. And he was 3-6 off Liriano.

    Meanwhile, Mauer has grounded into 3 double plays this year alone vs. the Yankees while Jeter has grounded into 3 Lifetime against Minnesota’s active pitchers for his entire Career

    Are the Yankees a threat to ground into a double play? Yes. Are the they less of a threat to do it than the Twins. Yes.

    Comment by Mike — October 5, 2010 @ 8:55 am

  4. I have a question though, I should know the answer to this but unfortunately I don’t. When it shows the percentage rates, is that percentage of all outs made or all outs put in play, or all groundout/flyouts percentage like 58% groundout 42% flyout

    Like example, let’s say a pitcher in 1 inning gets 2 strikeouts and 1 groundout. Is his groundout percentage 33% (As in 1 out of every 3 outs is a groundout) or 100% (As in percentage of ground outs made as opposed to fly outs)

    Comment by Mike — October 5, 2010 @ 9:19 am

  5. I do hope that you’re not using ridiculously small sample sizes to try and support an argument, unrelated to the initial post, on FanGraphs.

    Comment by bro — October 5, 2010 @ 9:42 am

  6. Usually it’s the percentage of all balls in play rather than outs made, so in that case it’d be 100% ground balls. The strikeouts were not in play. Sometimes sites do list groundouts and airouts and I think in those cases those still add to 100% and the strikeouts still aren’t counted, but I’m not sure.

    If he gave up a line drive single in the inning too for the inning it would be 50% GB, 50% LD for that inning even though the single was not an out.

    Comment by don — October 5, 2010 @ 9:46 am

  7. “Twenty-two times in 120 opportunities results in 18%. That is a double play opportunity every six plate appearances. An absurd rate from a leadoff hitter and a tribute to how often Brett Gardner and Curtis Granderson reach in front of The Captain.”

    The rate at which you bounce into double plays has nothing to do with the people hitting in front of you. The raw # of times you do it does.

    Comment by Temo — October 5, 2010 @ 9:47 am

  8. Impressive numbers, but hardly Wilson Valdezian.

    Comment by neuter_your_dogma — October 5, 2010 @ 9:52 am

  9. What is your so called “small sample size” stat I am going by. Numbers this year? Considering this article is about Jeter’s DP’s this year and career GB ratios of those 4 pitchers, then why am I not allowed to show Double Plays as a team this year and both career and season AB’s for these pitchers?

    Not sure why you’re getting mad because I have a counter-argument. I got nothing against the article written. But I just wanted to add other points, wasn’t aware that “wasn’t allowed”.

    However, I’m saying it is worth noting that the Twins THIS YEAR have grounded into the most double plays in the league.

    What would you like me to post then? Team numbers this year or player vs. player numbers career and/or this year?

    I will do Team stats this year

    Groundball/Flyball ratio

    Twins 2nd in the American League at 0.91. Yankees are 8th at 0.85

    Grounded into double plays, Twins- 159, Yankees – 124.

    Derek Jeter LIFETIME (since you’re basically saying this season numbers don’t mean anything) average vs. the pitchers above and number of double plays hit into against them

    Liriano- .385 in 13 AB, 1 DP
    Duensing, .333 in 3 AB, 0 DP
    Pavano- .400, in 10 AB, 1 DP
    Blackburn, .400 in 15 AB, 1 DP

    Might as well do Michael Cuddyer than since he was 2nd in the league in DP

    Sabathia- .212 avg in 52 AB, 1 DP
    Hughes- .250 in 4 AB, 0 DP
    Burnett- .111 in 18 AB, 2 DP’s
    Pettitte- .389 in 17 AB, 1 DP

    Comment by Mike — October 5, 2010 @ 10:05 am

  10. You’re right. Jeter might hit into a DP…. in the middle of the Yankees steamrolling the Twinkies. It might be the only two outs the Twins can get!

    (‘Tis the season)

    Comment by BobLoblaw — October 5, 2010 @ 10:06 am

  11. Oh okay, thanks Don

    Comment by Mike — October 5, 2010 @ 10:06 am

  12. Bro, I’m just saying pointing out that the Twins have hit into the most double plays this seasin is worth nothing

    This article is about Jeter’s double plays this season, so does it seem irrelevant of me to you, to post that the Twins lead the league in double plays?

    Comment by Mike — October 5, 2010 @ 10:08 am

  13. The point of the article (as I see it), was that Jeter hits into a disproportionate amount of DPs for a leadoff hitter/2 hitter… Cuddyer/Mauer hit more, but their percentages might be relatively normal (or less than Jeter’s), and the raw number may be attributable to having more opportunities due to where they hit in the order. I don’t really know/care to look any of that up, because it’s so tangential, but if you have the time/interest, be my guest. To truly compare with the article, you would have to break out your Jeter stats you’re citing to filter out the ABs with first base empty to see what his DP rate is against the respective Twins pitchers in DP opportunity ABs… you’d probably be left with only a handful of DP opportunity ABs, aka, a small sample size.

    Comment by James — October 5, 2010 @ 10:22 am

  14. Mike I dont think you get it…. Take a stats class

    Comment by adohaj — October 5, 2010 @ 10:26 am

  15. Read the sentence again. A double play opportunity every 6 PA’s is an absurd rate for a leadoff hitter, and it’s directly impacted by the OBP’s of hitters at the end of the Yankees lineup.

    Comment by Mark — October 5, 2010 @ 10:31 am

  16. Dont forget im not here to open the door wide for the yanks tio win in the 9th

    Comment by Joe Nathan — October 5, 2010 @ 10:37 am

  17. This is Mike again by the way, had to create a user name now, but it’s all good

    I can’t find a reply link to adohaj, but to let you know, I work with statistics, so thank you very much. I’ve taken plenty of stats classes.

    I will admit I’m not a saber stat guy (yet) but I’m willing to get into it.

    However I guess it’s fair to point out Jeter’s GIDP as a leadoff hitter, however I don’t think it’s irrelevant of me to post Cuddyer’s GIDP numbers as a cleanup hitter (with Morneau out) either

    Again, I have nothing against the article, well written and interesting numbers posted. I’m just saying the numbers I posted about team DP’s is at least worth nothing, that is all.

    Comment by MB923 — October 5, 2010 @ 10:44 am

  18. LOL, Nah but Fuentes is there in the 7th to blow a lead :)

    Comment by MB923 — October 5, 2010 @ 10:45 am

  19. it is not tangential. fangraphs and similar sites love to beat on jeter. he isnt great anymore (yes he did used to be one of the best shortstops of his generation regardless of what you would like to believe), and his defense has always been terrible. he is a groundball hitter, and hitting into more of them this year than normally. so yea his DP numbers will be up. and it may be a factor in this series. but the twins leading the league in DP and maur and cuddyer’s DP trouble is not tangential. It is, in fact, very relevant to the discussion of hitting into DP, as that is the point of the article. in order for it to be tangential, the point of the article would have to be to beat on jeter, not to analyze the coming ALDS series. i love fangraphs, the amount of “beat on jeter” rhetoric is disgraceful. therefore i will assume that the article is about the propensity of the yankees, jeter being the main candidate, to hit into DP. the logical next step is how often the twins are likely to hit into DP, in order to analyze both sides of the issue and the series. so in conclusion: it is very telling that Jeter hits into so many double plays, and yet the yankees hit into far fewer DP than the twins. I would think that the twins should be the ones concerned about groundball pitchers the most, not the yankees.

    Comment by phoenix — October 5, 2010 @ 11:01 am

  20. Oh then clearly you know how all important analysis work is done by extrapolating from a single data point

    Comment by Chops — October 5, 2010 @ 11:04 am

  21. worth noting*

    and i agree with you on every point. i just think that the lifetime AB and season AB which were around 5 or 10 or somehting small like that, don’t show anything relevant because maybe they had 0 DP because there was no runner on first in the 3 AB or something. thats the small sample size issue. but career stats and percentages and this year’s GIDP stats for players or teams are relevant because the entire article is on jeter’s GIDP this year.

    Comment by phoenix — October 5, 2010 @ 11:05 am

  22. Primarily, the most important stat I look at for leadoffer hitters is not their ability to drive in runs but mostly their OBP’s since that’s probably the most important stat for them at least to me. While it isn’t bad to look at their average or OBP with RISP, their main job is to get on base. Yankees leadoff hitters have an OBP of .358, 2nd to the Mariners (primarily I can say 2nd to Ichiro) at .360. Although Jeters OBP this year was at .340 but it was at .348 batting leadoff.

    I do feel though the Yankees have the wrong guy leading off. Their leadoff hitter should be Brett Gardner.

    I think looking at a DP rate would be a better stat for a #3 and #4 hitter.

    I looked up Michael Cuddyer’s numbers, since he’s pretty much the cleanup hitter with Morneau out. With runner on 1st and less than 2 out, his DP rate is above 17% A-Rod’s is only at 6%.

    Comment by MB923 — October 5, 2010 @ 11:05 am

  23. Very very well put phoenix. That was my main exact point. I watch the Yankees every game, I know how terrible he’s been this year with men on. Heck everytime he’s up with runners on I always say good chance there’s a GIDP, Grounded Into Derek’s Play

    If you think the Twins leading the league in DP’s doesn’t mean anything and isn’t a cause for concern, well I have to completely disagree with that

    Comment by MB923 — October 5, 2010 @ 11:15 am

  24. Exactly

    You guys can’t say that Jeter’s GIDP rates matter but Mauer’s and Cuddyer’s do not.

    Comment by MB923 — October 5, 2010 @ 11:22 am

  25. I teach a stats class, adohaj, and I don’t see where Mike has gone wrong. I loathe the Yankees but the man is making a bona fide point. Do you have anything substantive to respond, or are you just going to be rude?

    Comment by James III — October 5, 2010 @ 11:26 am

  26. “A double play opportunity every 6 PA’s is an absurd rate for a leadoff hitter, and it’s directly impacted by the OBP’s of hitters at the end of the Yankees lineup.”

    No, it’s not. The rate of DPs grounded into does not depend on how often the chance comes up. The large number of chances give us a more reliable rate estimate, but the rate itself would be the same if he was 1 for 6 on the year, instead of 20/120. If anything, having fast guys on base should lower the rate, not increase it.

    Comment by aweb — October 5, 2010 @ 11:35 am

  27. Don’t worry. I have never been surprised when Jeter has hit into inning-ending, rally-killing double plays. I’d love to know how much negative WPA all those DP’s are worth.

    Comment by Spunky — October 5, 2010 @ 11:35 am

  28. The Yankees in double play situations (Runners on at least 1st less than 2 out) ground into a double play 9.5% of the time

    The Twins have done this 13.1% of the time. More than the Yankees total and percentage wise.

    So is this main point of the article to bash Jeter or to say he isn’t what he used to be? Because we already know that as well as everybody knows that.

    This is where I’m lost at. if you want to post numbers of Twins pitchers ground ball ratio and Jeter’s DP ratios then fine I have no problem. But if the Twins have worse numbers in the same situations, then why can’t that be brought up as well?

    You act as if I’m defeinding the Yankees and bashing the Twins by posting that, in no way whatsoever am I. I just simply asked don’t tell me it’s useless to post when the whole article was about groundball percentages and double play percentages.

    Comment by MB923 — October 5, 2010 @ 11:51 am

  29. The point of the article is to point out that the Twins pitchers all pitch to ground balls. Jeter hits into a disproportionately large number of double plays. This is all.

    Comment by TFINY — October 5, 2010 @ 12:00 pm

  30. Pitcher vs batter splits are the small sample size. Very rarely are indicative of anything.

    Comment by tpain — October 5, 2010 @ 12:04 pm

  31. Just to clarify: Individual pitcher vs. individual batter.

    Comment by tpain — October 5, 2010 @ 12:05 pm

  32. I couldn’t get past the part where Nick Blackburn is starting a playoff game. Makes me sick. At least the Yankees have sense enough to skip Burnett.

    Comment by tpain — October 5, 2010 @ 12:08 pm

  33. He did pitch well against the Yankees in Game 2 and would have got a W if Joe Nathan didn’t make a boo boo. And he’s put up decent numbers outside of his 2nd to last start of the season

    Comment by MB923 — October 5, 2010 @ 12:15 pm

  34. Well, *he* wouldn’t have gotten a W. The Twins would have, but Blackburn was long gone by that point. Sorry for the nitpick.

    Comment by Steve — October 5, 2010 @ 12:27 pm

  35. Yes Steve you are correct, sorry about that. Some reason I thought he pitched more than what he pitched (5.2 innings, thought he pitched into the 7th or something.) My mistake, thank you for the correction

    Comment by MB923 — October 5, 2010 @ 12:33 pm

  36. As I mentioned, so does Michael Cuddyer

    Sabathia had above 50% this season, Pettitte has 48.5% careeer wise which tops all players excluding Duensing who hasn’t pitched long enough I don’t think to compare careers just yet. Pettitte and Sabathia if the game goes the distance will pitch 4 out of the 5 games.

    The Twins grounded into the most double plays and led the Yankees by over 3% this year in DP situations. If Jeter’s DP’s are a big issue, Cudduyer’s can be also, and he more than likely will be batting with runners on more often than Jeter.

    Again if you want to talk about Jeter’s double plays, I understand. But the Twins DP’s should be worth mentioning. That’s my main point.

    Comment by MB923 — October 5, 2010 @ 12:52 pm

  37. IFFF it’s worth nothing, not sure but I’ll post it anyway.

    Head to head, the Twins grounded into 10 DP’s this season vs. the Yankees (Joe Mauer led with 3). The Yankees grounded into 4 DP’s this season vs. the Twins (Nobody had 2). If interested, the 4 were Texieria, A-Rod, Cano and Randy Winn.

    Comment by MB923 — October 5, 2010 @ 12:59 pm

  38. James, nice that you teach a stat class and all, but bring up as little as 5, and a max of 13 ABs is completely pointless. Individual match up stats are pretty much 100% of the time completely worthless in predicting future preformances.

    If Mike wants to make a case that the Twins are more of DB risk than the Yankees, ok, great. But it isn’t really the point of this article.

    Comment by Wally — October 5, 2010 @ 1:02 pm

  39. Jeter hits into a lot of double plays. Tell us something we Yankees fans don’t already know.

    Comment by Seideberg — October 5, 2010 @ 1:24 pm

  40. Read the headline Wally- Derek Jeter’s 4-6-3 Nightmare

    I’m sure you know what a 4-6-3 is.

    The article is about Derek Jeter’s Double Plays. The article is how about how current Twin’s pitchers have been good this season and good for the most part of their career about getting ground balls.

    Not once does it mention that the Twins have hit into more double plays, and arguably the 1st or 2nd most important spot in the lineup, the clean-up hitter, on the Twins, has hit into more DP’s than anyone in baseball not named Billy Butler, or I can simply say, anyone in baseball who’s going into the playoffs.

    If Derek Jeter’s double plays are a “danger” to the Yankees, then Michael Cuddyer’s double plays should absolutely be brought into that they are a “danger” to the Twins.

    And as I posted before, 4 of the 5 Yankee games (if it goes 5 games) will be started by 2 pitchers. 1 has a Ground ball rate of above 50% this season, the other has a career groundball percentage higher than anyone listed on that list except for Duensing

    If Jeter’s double plays have an increase of going up against them, then Cuddyer’s DP’s have an increase of going up as well against Pettitte and Sabathia

    Do you understnad my point?

    Also, there’s no way you or anyone else can prove me to that a batter vs. pitcher’s stats individually do not matter. Maybe I stated a small sample size but those stats are not something that should be ignored. These stats are shown all the time and it’s actually something managers look at a lot before going to middle relief pitchers.

    Maybe I posted small numbers but the topic was about This Season. And I just wanted to say this season in the 6 games vs. the Twins, Jeter has done well against the starting pitchers. Not once did I say he will do well in this series.

    Maybe I should also note the Twins had turned 113 DP’s, the Yankees had turned 123. However I can’t seem to find some kind of rate of that

    Whatever man, I just hope for a good series and that Phil Cuzzi isn’t umpiring

    Comment by MB923 — October 5, 2010 @ 2:02 pm

  41. I think you two are taking things a bit further than the author ever intended. He saw two things: The Twins are 3rd in the AL in GB% among starters; and Jeter is one of the worst in the league interms of GIDP.

    If you want to compare both teams’ over all GIDP tendencies considering the match ups, great, but that wasn’t the point of this article.

    Most enlightening article ever? No, but it did bring to my attention something I was aware of, and as we can see, the discussion following it has brought up even more. Generally, that’s all I ask from a blog.

    Comment by Wally — October 5, 2010 @ 2:04 pm

  42. Good lord mike, do you have fetish for strawmen? Who ever said that?

    Comment by Wally — October 5, 2010 @ 2:06 pm

  43. Mike, the horse is dead.

    Comment by Wally — October 5, 2010 @ 2:08 pm

  44. “No, but it did bring to my attention something I was aware of, and as we can see, the discussion following it has brought up even more. Generally, that’s all I ask from a blog.”

    So why are you acting as if I’m wrong about bringing it up. I said it’s worth nothing about. I seriously doubt Derek Jeter, whether it be his bat or glove, is going to be the decision factor in the series. Bearing some walk off HR in Game 3 or 4, or bearing a series ending double play lol

    Comment by MB923 — October 5, 2010 @ 2:17 pm

  45. Yes, Mike I get your point however:

    A) You supported it with irrelevent information. This season or not, those numbers tell us nothing regarding future preformance.

    B) Its outside the scope of this article. This article is about Jeter matching up against GB pitchers on the Twins’ staff. Nothing more. If you want to talk about GIDPs for the entire series, write your own damn blog. Don’t act like the author left something out that was require for his argument. He didn’t.

    C) (And slightly unrelated) You’re now acting like a douchbag.

    Comment by Wally — October 5, 2010 @ 2:27 pm

  46. I should start at shortstop instead then.

    Comment by Ramiro Pena — October 5, 2010 @ 2:29 pm

  47. At this point Mike, I’m most critical of your inability to recognize your faulty uses of match up stats, desire to beat this dead horse, and generally douchbag-like attitude in criticizing an article for not bringing up something outside the article’s central thesis. Is it worth talking about the Twins and Yankees GIDP tendencies? Sure. Is it worth acting like the author missed something because he didn’t do that? No. Get off it.

    Comment by Wally — October 5, 2010 @ 2:34 pm

  48. A) You supported it with irrelevent information. This season or not, those numbers tell us nothing regarding future preformance.

    B) Its outside the scope of this article. This article is about Jeter matching up against GB pitchers on the Twins’ staff. Nothing more. If you want to talk about GIDPs for the entire series, write your own damn blog. Don’t act like the author left something out that was require for his argument. He didn’t.

    C) (And slightly unrelated) You’re now acting like a douchbag.

    —-

    A- This season or not, those numbers tell us nothing regarding future preformance…………..You lost me on that. Basically you’re telling me a players history tells us nothing about them and how they are likely to perform?

    B- Don’t act like the author left something out that was require for his argument. He didn’t……..He can choose what he wants to write, but as a commenter, me, you, or anybody can have agreements or disagreements to it. I wasn’t aware that wasn’t allowed on here. I’m new to posting on that site and if you can’t disagree with what someone writes, then uhh….ends at that

    C- C) (And slightly unrelated) You’re now acting like a douchbag………I don’t take offense because someone on the itnernet called me a douchebag, however I find it unnecessary to say.

    Again, I’m just giving my views, if you don’t like them or don’t agree with me, you shouldn’t be calling people names and just say that they’re wrong because they have different views than you.

    He gave his point, that’s fine. I gave my comment after, apparently it was “wrong” to provide numbers and give my thoughts

    If you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything.

    Comment by MB923 — October 5, 2010 @ 2:48 pm

  49. BA fluctuates so much between 600 PA seasons, I have a hard time buying anything based off 13-14 ABs. Unless its something extreme like 14 K’s in 20 ABs or so, trying to gleem any info from individual pitcher/hitter splits is mostly useless. You’re way better off looking at the pitcher’s L/R splits.

    Comment by tpain — October 5, 2010 @ 3:06 pm

  50. Regarding Jeters numbers versus twins pitchers…How many times did he come to the plate against these pitchers in a potential DP situation? He may only have grounded into 1 DP versus Liriano, but was it in 2, 5, or 10 opportunities to do so? These numbers don’t really tell us much of anything without knowing that.

    On the surface you look at those numbers and say wow 3 DPs in 41 ABs for a 7% chance that’s great. The truth may be that he grounded into those 3 DPs in the only 3 ABs he potentially could have, which would actually translate to 100%. (I’m sure that’s not true I’m just trying to illustrate the point).

    Liriano- .385 in 13 AB, 1 DP
    Duensing, .333 in 3 AB, 0 DP
    Pavano- .400, in 10 AB, 1 DP
    Blackburn, .400 in 15 AB, 1 DP

    Comment by Big D — October 5, 2010 @ 3:28 pm

  51. Mike,

    “Basically you’re telling me a players history tells us nothing about them and how they are likely to perform? ”

    Player’s history over maybe 10 or 20 ABs against a specific pitcher tell us nothing, yes. Same goes for 10 or 20 ABs against a specific team this year. If you want to further understand this concept, you can probably find a “The Book” on amazon for 15 bucks.

    “I wasn’t aware that wasn’t allowed on here. I’m new to posting on that site and if you can’t disagree with what someone writes, then uhh….ends at that”

    Disagree all you like, but if you bring up something that the post doesn’t deal with as some sort of criticism, the people here will probably point out the flaw in that.

    “I don’t take offense because someone on the itnernet called me a douchebag, however I find it unnecessary to say.”

    Yes, it’s probably also unnecessary to say things like “Read the headline Wally- Derek Jeter’s 4-6-3 Nightmare

    I’m sure you know what a 4-6-3 is. ”

    That’s douchebaggery. Apperently you have probably with people calling a spade a spade. Like when people tell you your criticism is off topic, your “evidence” to support your point is meaningless and you’re acting like a douche.

    If you don’t want someone to point out you’re acting like a douche, don’t act like a douche. And I’m sorry if you’re a little too worked up to tell when you are acting like douche; next time I suppose I’ll explain it the first time.

    Comment by Wally — October 5, 2010 @ 3:37 pm

  52. “Do not be surprised if the end-result is a decrease in the Yankees’ run expectancy and an increase in Jeter-related snark.”

    Jeter won another World Series last year, and that didn’t stop snarky BS on the part of people like the author. When it’s all said and done, Derek Jeter is going to be the worst player in baseball history with 3000+ hits, 1800+ runs scored, 350+ SB, and 5+ WS rings.

    Man, he S*CKS!

    Comment by waynetolleson — October 5, 2010 @ 4:03 pm

  53. @aweb

    read it again: a double play OPPORTUNITY every 6 at bats.

    means: Jeter is up with <2 outs, runner on first base 120 times in 739 PAs. The reason this number (120) is so high is ENTIRELY due to the OBPs of the guys hitting in front of him.

    The DP opp in 1/6 PAs is not referring to his GIDP/Opportunity, its referring to how often he gets an opportunity.

    Comment by NWS — October 5, 2010 @ 4:07 pm

  54. Not once did I say it was the best stat. I said it’s a stat that I think should not be ignored. But if you choose to ignore it, then that’s your opinion.

    Nor not once did I say the author was wrong about anything. Everything he posted was accurate and I respect it. However I just thought I’d like to add on more to it for those who are interested. If you don’t like stats I like, then don’t bother replying.

    Just like how I’m sure most people never use W-L to judge starting pitchers, but apparently tehre are those few writers who do look at that and sometimes can cost a deserving pitcher a Cy Young award.

    Personally, I don’t like FIP at all, however Wally I don’t call people douchebags because they like it.

    If you don’t like stats that I like, I have absolutely no problem with it. But apparently you have a problem with the stats that I do like, but that doesn’t make me a douchebag for following it

    Whatever stats you like, feel free to use. I’m not going to sit back and call you names if you use stats I don’t.

    Again, not once did I criticize what he wrote. Everything is perfectly fine and I completely agree. I just decided to add on more stats to that.

    It’s like if someone here wrote a blog on why so and so should win the MVP and Cy Young, people can free to pick otherwise, but they or I wouldn’t call people douchebags for saying

    I’m just here to talk baseball and give my views, don’t like them, then you can reply back if you wish or just not respond at all.

    Comment by MB923 — October 5, 2010 @ 4:28 pm

  55. i would not be too sure of that… he may pitch 4th, if they don’t want to push short rest in the DS… unfortunate as it is that he is on the post season roster… burnett im referring to btw

    Comment by phoenix — October 5, 2010 @ 4:56 pm

  56. HAHAHAHAHA

    Comment by phoenix — October 5, 2010 @ 4:57 pm

  57. thank you! everyone here constantly rags on jeter. no he is not what he used to be. he is about or a little above average short stop now. he is being paid a crazy amount because of what he did earlier in his career. he is the captain as well. sure he is still overrated because of his name value, but he earned that reputation. no one says that hank aaron sucks just because he is old and can’t do what he did early on in his career. even at the pace he is hitting this year (which i believe he can do better than for the next 3 years) he is still about the average SS, even if he is being paid for more. the yankees choosing to pay jeter for his past performance and his captaincy is their decision and does not make him better or worse on the field. if someone has a problem with a SS swinging a wiffle bat, why not rag of Cesar Izturis or something? no one is saying he is the MVP or gold glover this year, so why rag on him for being average? with all the above average hitters on that team, having an average SS is not terrible…

    Comment by phoenix — October 5, 2010 @ 5:03 pm

  58. If I can end this argument…. you guys are both right because of the oddity of the #’s

    120DP opportunities out of 700+ PA’s is ~1/6…. this is a tribute to the OBP of the guys in front of him (at the bottom of the lineup)… It’s even more startling when you consider ~140 or so of those PA’s are leading of the game with no chance at hitting with a man on.

    22/120 is a DP rate of ~1/6… this is a tribute to Jeter’s ability to beat the ball into the ground (and not a function of OBP)

    The #’s just happen to both be ~1/6 and you guys are quoting 2 different things.

    Comment by tom — October 5, 2010 @ 5:16 pm

  59. So jeter is probably going to get 3 AB’s vs every starter (maybe 4, maybe 2 if the pitcher gets lit up). Assuming he’s leading off, that’s 1 AB where there will be no DP opportunity.

    So this is an article about the ~2 AB’s per game Jeter might get with a man on against a Twins starter in a 5 game series (or ~10AB).

    For those railing on about small sample size of other commentors… the ALDS is also a small sample size and you can throw out the GB and DP #’s in terms of predictive value. He might hit into 5, he might hit into 0, but if his DP rate was 10% vs 16% would it really change the outcome of a 10AB or smaller sample size?

    There’s also a chance that Girardi remembers what that gosh darn hit and run sign is when Jeter comes up (oh, who am I kidding, I don’t even think he has a hit and run sign).

    Comment by tom — October 5, 2010 @ 5:29 pm

  60. Mike,

    “Not once did I say it was the best stat. I said it’s a stat that I think should not be ignored. But if you choose to ignore it, then that’s your opinion.”

    This is not an opinion, its a statistical fact, 10-20 ABs mean nothing, exept in the rarest of situations like the 0-20 with 14Ks, or something like that. This is like me saying my favorite color is orange, or that I don’t like olives on my pizza. This is like saying humans and lizards share a common ansestor. All known evidence supports what I’m saying.

    “Personally, I don’t like FIP at all, however Wally I don’t call people douchebags because they like it.”

    I said you’re acting like a douche. Its a subtile, but important difference.

    Look if you can’t maintain a respectful dialog, even when faced with criticism, I’m going to call you on it. In this case you started acting like douche with these stupid appeal to ridicules like the one I quoted above.

    Gee, Mike didn’t YOU read the title and notice the words DEREK JETER in there? I assume you know who DEREK JETER is.

    That’s a ridicule Mike. The kind of thing a douche would say. So I will tell you you’re acting like a douche. Maybe that much is piontless, as for all I know you might actually be a douche and pointing out that you are acting like a douche and why won’t help get you back to not acting like a douche. Either way tough shit for you Mike.

    “If you don’t like stats that I like, I have absolutely no problem with it. But apparently you have a problem with the stats that I do like, but that doesn’t make me a douchebag for following it.”

    To make clear, since you want to spend so much time on this topic now and fail to understand where it came from: I did not call you a douche because you used specific batter/pitcher match up stats. Lets recap shall we. I was commenting to James III that pitcher/batter match up stats don’t mean squat, and that you going off on the Twins DP tendencies is all well and good, but off topic. To which you gave me you nice long ditribe starting with telling me to read the head line. For THAT, I will say you are acting like a douchebag.

    “Again, not once did I criticize what he wrote. Everything is perfectly fine and I completely agree. I just decided to add on more stats to that. ”

    Really, you didn’t criticize the post? WTF does this mean: “it’s like saying only the Yankees are threatened to ground into a lot of double plays.” You’re creating a strawman out of R.J.’s post Mike. He did not intend to compare the NYY to the Twins DP tendencies at all.

    “I’m just here to talk baseball and give my views, don’t like them, then you can reply back if you wish or just not respond at all.”

    Wait, I didn’t realize I wasn’t allowed to respond if I disagreed….

    Comment by Wally — October 5, 2010 @ 6:26 pm

  61. mike and wally. get a room next time.

    Comment by M — October 5, 2010 @ 8:14 pm

  62. All in all, how many players can say they hit +.300 BA,+3,000hits, +500 doubles, +1000 RBI, +1000 Runs, got 5 WS rings? in the HISTORY of the game…with those stats who’s gonna care batting for 40 dp a year.

    Comment by Charlie — October 5, 2010 @ 8:37 pm

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