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  1. I didn’t like Jeter much to begin with (possibly because of the media). This is confirmation.

    Comment by kbertling353 — November 23, 2010 @ 5:28 pm

  2. As a lifelong Yankee fan, watching Jeter draw this out could be painful. If he wants to remind the media and the fanbase that he really is the great Yankee Captain that he is often portrayed to be, he takes the well above market deal, keeps quiet and continues to play. Anything else would hurt his rep more than the team’s.

    Comment by Matt — November 23, 2010 @ 5:34 pm

  3. Jeter is a 1st ballot HoF and one of the best players of his generation. That said, if this was anyone OTHER than Derek Jeter, he’d be looking at 2 years, $12 million and be happy to get it.

    Aging, below average defensively (that GG is a joke) SS that are declining offensively aren’t in huge demand.

    Honestly, the Yankees should tell Close that their offer declines $5 million every month they hold out.

    Nov: 3 years, $45 million
    Dec: 3 years, $40 million
    Jan: 3 years, $35 million
    Feb: 3 years, $30 million
    etc etc

    Comment by NEPP — November 23, 2010 @ 5:36 pm

  4. I am not that surprised. For all the Jeter love in the media, there have always been signs that he has a pretty sizable ego. He is smarter than Manny and he will probably settle a little quicker, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he tries to pressure the Yankees but courting some other offer for less $/more years or whatever to build leverage. In the end, it will all be for show, he needs the Yankees as much, if not more than they need him

    Comment by Matt S — November 23, 2010 @ 5:36 pm

  5. I think most of us thought that Jeter WOULD get 3/45 not SHOULD. If the assumption was that the Yankees wouldn’t resign, I bet we would have guessed way less.

    Comment by Mike — November 23, 2010 @ 5:39 pm

  6. Soooooo…. let me get this straight: There is a problem with a player – any player – trying to get as much as he can possibly get?

    Doing what every other free agent tries to do when he hits the open market?

    Granted, this is one of the most popular players on one of the most popular teams in media capital of the world, but this is much ado about nothing. Again…

    Comment by Frank — November 23, 2010 @ 5:49 pm

  7. Jeter is the new Brett Favre.

    Comment by Correction — November 23, 2010 @ 5:53 pm

  8. So you people hate the guy who has to actually play, for trying to get as much as possible from the owner who is bleeding you for every possible cent at the expense of hundreds of thousands of fans who would love to see a game, yet can’t afford to.

    The players risk their careers doing other things to make it this far, and fight for a piece of a revenue stream that is many multiples of these contracts. The owners scratch and claw for every single dime they can get from YOU, even threatening to move the team if they don’t get tax breaks, which take money away from public services that are designed to enrich the lives of your friends and family.

    If it was more profitable, the owners would skin your unborn kids alive.

    Comment by puffy — November 23, 2010 @ 5:53 pm

  9. Yeah exactly if you were to take the Yankees out of the equation I bet we would have come up with something like 2 years, $16MM maybe?

    I mean holy crap Jeter, throw that 3/$45 on top of your previous Yankee contract and that’s what, $234 Million Dollars over the last 12 years?! Plus whatever you made before you signed the first deal back in 2001!

    Comment by DonCoburleone — November 23, 2010 @ 5:55 pm

  10. There’s a difference between trying to get as much as you can out of the free agent market and essentially extorting your team into overpaying you even more than they already are just because you know it will be a public relations disaster if they don’t sign you.

    Not that I really care. This is what the Yankees deserve for overpaying players for so many years; sooner or later they’re going to end up with tens of millions tied up in old, useless players and will have nobody but themselves to blame.

    Comment by Doug — November 23, 2010 @ 5:56 pm

  11. I’m not too inclined to be pro-Jeter, but this is a situation where I agree you can’t really place any blame on him for what he’s doing. This is the last professional contract he’ll ever sign. It’s his last chance to make a living doing what he loves to do. When this contract is done, he’ll start cutting red ribbons with giant novelty scissors for appearance fees, or he’ll do nothing at all. There’s nothing wrong with trying to get as much money as you can out of the deal. Even for a guy who’s set for life financially.

    Comment by JH — November 23, 2010 @ 6:04 pm

  12. It’s more of the sense that he is entitled to much more than his production justifies.

    It’s kind of like that kid that gets a cushy job because his parents have connections. You don’t fault the kid for wanting a well-paying job, but that’s not going to stop me from thinking he didn’t deserve it. Jeter wants no part of the open market. He has a smug attitude that says the Yankees should pay him because of who he is, and that paying him based on actual production is an injustice.

    Comment by kbertling353 — November 23, 2010 @ 6:05 pm

  13. jeter isn’t retiring or stated as such.

    i’m trying to figure out how this statement makes sense

    Comment by Slugger27 — November 23, 2010 @ 6:05 pm

  14. Where did I leave my hat…it was made of tinfoil if I recall…

    Comment by Ricky — November 23, 2010 @ 6:06 pm

  15. Owner hate is just ignorant.. Without them there is no league, there are no teams, and there is no Jeter scoffing at a $45MM contract offer for what will be the 3 worst seasons of his career. Besides, how is what you just described any different than most other major corporations in this country? You think movie studios care that it costs a family of four $100+ to go see a movie these days? Or that a SINGLE ticket to Disneyland is now $70?

    NEWSFLASH: Businesses that are under the umbrella of capitalism need to make a profit over everything else, and the bigger the profits the better… DUH

    Comment by DonCoburleone — November 23, 2010 @ 6:07 pm

  16. whoa…

    Comment by Slugger27 — November 23, 2010 @ 6:07 pm

  17. Commenter “Correction” might be referring to the me me me mentality and almost prima-donna esque attitude.

    Comment by Ricky — November 23, 2010 @ 6:09 pm

  18. This is no big deal – Jeter & agent are just posturing to see if the Yankees blink first. His agent has to talk him up, that’s what agents do.

    Plus, what’s the real harm in drawing it out? It’s November… not like Jeter is going to miss Spring Training or something here…

    Comment by bill — November 23, 2010 @ 6:10 pm

  19. i heard a couple o’ clowns on MLB radio claiming that the Yankees had better watch out or Sabean would offer Jeter 1 year at $20 mil…lol…if Sabean did that he’d be run out on a rail..Giants fans don’t want Jeter at $15 mil/ 1 year and probably not at $10 mil/ 1 year either…myself i’d rather have Uribe at the same price and tell Jeter to shove it…where do they get these (East Coast????) idiots who think Jeter is GOD FREAKIN’ ALMIGHTY???

    Comment by Fonzie scheme — November 23, 2010 @ 6:10 pm

  20. Jeter sent me some texts, let’s just leave it at that.

    Comment by Correction — November 23, 2010 @ 6:12 pm

  21. This will be confirmed once we yearn for his decision on whether to play or retire every single offseason.

    Comment by Bryz — November 23, 2010 @ 6:12 pm

  22. Plus endorsements.

    Comment by John — November 23, 2010 @ 6:16 pm

  23. @ricky:

    then i guess i’m confused as to what quotes from jeter are “prima-donna esque” or could be classified as “me me me”

    Comment by Slugger27 — November 23, 2010 @ 6:18 pm

  24. It was a joke. Jeter wouldn’t accept that anyways. Another season of below average play would be the nail in this guys coffin. Nobody would sign him after that (besides the Yankees, maybe). He has to get as many years as possible out of this because he’s not getting another contract after this one.

    Comment by John — November 23, 2010 @ 6:20 pm

  25. When Jeter allows his agent to make comments like the Yankees are ‘baffling’, that is a direct representation of Jeter. If Jeter doesn’t like his agent making those comments, they would keep coming out.

    Comment by John — November 23, 2010 @ 6:22 pm

  26. What are the chances the Red Sox and Jeter team up to boost the Yankees offer? The Red Sox would allow Jeter to use them for leverage, offering some 3 year 60m dollar deal. They could claim they would shift him over to third base. Would the Yankees really try to call their bluff and risk Jeter going to the Red Sox? All this won’t happen of course, but it would be highly entertaining and possibly add some fuel to the Yankee-Red Sox rivalry that has been lacking the past few years.

    Comment by beasleyrockah — November 23, 2010 @ 6:27 pm

  27. Yankees really should explain it to Jeter this way. If we sign you to a 4 year deal, you’re most likely not going to be a starter for the last year. Do you really want to end your career riding the pine? We’re trying to give you one last well paying contract and let you end your career respectably. If we sign you to 4 years and you’re hitting .250/300/350 by the last one, we can’t trade you, we can’t bench you. Imagine how uncomfortable that would be.

    Comment by Gary — November 23, 2010 @ 6:32 pm

  28. Either I haven’t been in a movie theater for quite some time (unlikely, it’s only been 2 months) or I live in Minnesota, because I could get 3 friends and our tickets would only be $40-50.

    Comment by Bryz — November 23, 2010 @ 6:34 pm

  29. I think Don might have been including the cost of food and drink…
    It can get pricey..

    Comment by Ricky — November 23, 2010 @ 6:58 pm

  30. An AL East team should offer like 1/18 or 1/20 just to f with the Yankees.

    Comment by zenbitz — November 23, 2010 @ 7:14 pm

  31. they sounded serious to me…anyone else hear it on MLB Radio on Sirius/XM earlier today? i think it was in the 11 AM – NOON Pacific time slot…

    Comment by Fonzie scheme — November 23, 2010 @ 7:16 pm

  32. If he’s still the Yankee SS by the ASB 2013, I will be stunned. He’ll be Visquel sans-defense.

    Comment by Joe R — November 23, 2010 @ 7:21 pm

  33. i think you’re missing the connection between Jeter getting $15-$20/mil a year and the fan paying exorbitant prices for everything from tickets to beer…the players and owners are now in it together in trying to get every last nickel from the fans…

    Comment by Fonzie scheme — November 23, 2010 @ 7:22 pm

  34. keep drinking that union koolaid though, if it makes you feel better.

    Comment by Fonzie scheme — November 23, 2010 @ 7:24 pm

  35. wow Doug…your ignorance is painful. how is he extorting his team? because he’s trying to get as much money as possible? The guy has one bad year and is a year removed from being a top 6 position player in baseball and all of a sudden he’s not worth anything.

    Ya, this is what the Yankees get…what? what are they “getting”? And you’re right. they’re the only team that has ever overpayed anybody. Boo hoo…i hate the Yankees! They spend money! waaah waaah!! get over it.

    Comment by Jonathan — November 23, 2010 @ 7:44 pm

  36. you’re letting your personal anti yankee/jeter feelings cloud your rationality. name one thing jeter has ever said that makes him an entitled smug guy. he’s trying to get as much money as possible. end of know…kind of like every other guy in every other profession out there. why do you care what he gets paid? it doesn’t affect you. It won’t stop the yankees from getting other players. If you don’t like a squeaky clean player that plays hard, plays hurt and represents the game extremely well while being entirely about winning the obviously you have an irrational bias against him. That’s fine. Not everyone likes every player. But to concoct this bull story about him that isn’t based on any fact is just flat out stupid and pathetic. Once again. He’s trying to get as much money as possible and his agents are negotiating and using everything they can to make more. If you’re the type of person that doesn’t want millions of dollars then good for you. I hope you win the lottery so you can give me all the money.

    Comment by Jonathan — November 23, 2010 @ 7:50 pm

  37. 3/45 is a better offer than 1/20.

    Comment by Tony — November 23, 2010 @ 7:54 pm

  38. The point here, as far as I see it, isn’t that Jeter is trying to get as much money as he can, it’s more that he’s arguing it’s what he’s worth. It would be one thing if he was saying “hey, I’ve given you all of these good years now it’s time to cash me out and put me on my five year farewell tour.” Instead, he’s arguing that he should be paid $20+ million because that’s the value he brings to the team, which is a difficult argument to make unless he can present evidence that a large majority of the people that attend Yankee games do so entirely to watch him play or that he’s such an inspiration to his teammates that his presence alone elevates their play.

    Comment by Ray — November 23, 2010 @ 8:18 pm

  39. I’m sure at your job, you always take less money than you are worth (IYO), even though you’ve ben a big reason why the company you have worked for has thrived.

    People are irrational when emotions get involved. They feel something and THEN look for reasons to justify.

    If you hate Jeter for looking to get max money, then you will basically hate everyone who gets the chance to do the same … I mean except for all those athletes that take less money even when they have other options. All zero of them.

    Comment by CircleChange11 — November 23, 2010 @ 8:36 pm

  40. Oh yeah, Boston should definitely start the (untrue) rumors that they are interested in a 4y/60M deal … sorta payback for Teixeira.

    Comment by CircleChange11 — November 23, 2010 @ 8:39 pm

  41. Why would he have to prove that a large majority come to watch him play?

    Is he asking for 200M or 20M?

    The NYY have played a part in this monster. They’ve made money of Jeter being a fan favorite, and have won 5 titles with him as SS, and have marketed him as being The Captain … now the contract is up, and the NYY want to pay him for on-field value only.


    Comment by CircleChange11 — November 23, 2010 @ 8:44 pm

  42. Cool false dichotomy bro.

    Being a smug asshole that won’t settle for anything less than double what you’re worth vs. taking less than you’re worth. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of this, but there is such thing as being paid on merit.

    I’m as much as a capitalist as you’ll find (Randian, even), but there’s a difference between demanding every last penny of what your production merits and what Jeter is doing. Again, I repeat, Jeter wants absolutely no part of the open market.

    If I were the Yankees, I’d tell him 3/45MM is my max offer and give him a deadline. Let’s see him play for the Reds for 2/18MM.

    Comment by kbertling353 — November 23, 2010 @ 9:00 pm

  43. The Orioles should offer him 1 year @ $50.

    Not $50 million, but $50.

    Comment by O's Fan — November 23, 2010 @ 9:01 pm

  44. Strawmen everywhere

    Comment by kbertling353 — November 23, 2010 @ 9:01 pm

  45. So right. The thing is, none of his negotiating points count for jack outside of the Bronx. He has no leverage with any other team and the Yankees are probably smart enough to know that. Take away his sentimental value to the Yankees and he’s just a fading, aging star who may end up being a utility infielder by the end of any deal of three years or longer. The only reason to sign him is to needle the Yankees and at $50M or more that’s a really expensive needle.

    Comment by MikeS — November 23, 2010 @ 9:10 pm

  46. Can you at least make an attempt not to write terribly? Maybe a paragraph or two? I can’t read this.

    Comment by Baron Samedi — November 23, 2010 @ 9:16 pm

  47. What’s wrong with him thinking that? For all we know this can all be the work of his agent. Whatever the case, he has the right to demand whatever he wants.

    If you do believe in capitalism then you know he won’t get what he wants. The demand just won’t be there and therefore he will lower his asking price.

    It’ll come down to the Yankees and how much they want to give. After he signs, this whole fiasco will just wash away.

    Comment by Jeff W. — November 23, 2010 @ 9:27 pm

  48. The funny thing is that by “talking him up” they’re not doing him any favors. The narrative at this point is that he’s a declining 36 yr old. His agents pretty much have been focusing on the “intangibles” we love to make fun of. They’re pretty much conceding the production aspect, which is pretty stupid IMO.

    Comment by kbertling353 — November 23, 2010 @ 9:28 pm

  49. “That said, if this was anyone OTHER than Derek Jeter, he’d be looking at 2 years, $12 million and be happy to get it…Aging, below average defensively SS that are declining offensively aren’t in huge demand.”

    2008 Edgar Renteria disagrees.

    Comment by matt — November 23, 2010 @ 9:32 pm

  50. I don’t see how the Yankees are responsible for the media’s lovefest with Jeter

    Comment by kbertling353 — November 23, 2010 @ 9:33 pm

  51. BB Reference says he’s already made $205 million from salary alone and who knows what his off the field endorsements add up to. silly to see a guy like this trying to get every last penny from the Yankees, and i hate the Yankees. The Yankees Suck, The Yankees Suck, THHHHHEEEE YANNNNKKKEEESS SUUCCCKKK!!

    Comment by Wow — November 23, 2010 @ 10:06 pm

  52. hit the free mkt and see what he gets offered, $10 million? what an overrated joke.

    Comment by Wow — November 23, 2010 @ 10:09 pm

  53. I think kbertling put it well. If all of this posturing is just a matter of the politics of negotiation, well, I guess that’s somewhat understandable (if undignified). But you get the impression that this isn’t just a show–i.e. that Jeter really believes that he deserves more money, and is indignant at the Yankees’ offer. In that case, I don’t see why we can’t be legitimately critical of him the same as with any spoiled child.

    Comment by Andy — November 23, 2010 @ 10:23 pm

  54. Totally agreed. The yankees should have been dragging Jeter through the mud for the last 10 years, and hitting him in the knees with crowbars so he could not contribute to the titles, and then marketing him as “the crappiest craphead ever”.

    wait, what?

    Didn’t the Yankees pay Jeter $200M while all of that stuff was happening?

    Comment by Steve — November 23, 2010 @ 10:24 pm

  55. A usual, the irrationals use something like contract negotiations to act like Jeter is overrated trash invented by the New York media.

    Not to say that that’s the attitude espoused here from the majority of posters, though. All I can add is that even Yankee fans from what I gather are turning against Jeter.

    Still not an excuse to ignore that he WAS a great player

    Comment by Mike R. — November 23, 2010 @ 10:29 pm

  56. Dave Cameron opts out of the scanner EVERY time he flies.

    Comment by Jackie Treehorn — November 23, 2010 @ 10:32 pm

  57. If this was anyone OTHER than a world-series hero, he’d be looking at 2 years, 12 mil.

    rephrased for accuracy.

    Comment by Vinny — November 23, 2010 @ 10:55 pm

  58. We haven’t heard a word from Jeter yet. If he was smart, he simply told his agent, “Get me signed by the Yankees for the most years you can get at the highest AAV. Do what you got to do. I ain’t talkin’.”

    This is his agent’s job. Even Pettitte’s agent tried this a couple years ago. And then in the end he said he had a tough job because Pettitte told him he was signing with the Yankees no matter what.

    Close has to do his best to get the Yankees to blink. Cashman knows it’s business.

    Unless and until Jeter starts talking, this is nothing.

    Comment by noseeum — November 23, 2010 @ 11:00 pm

  59. I love how everybody is acting like Jeter isn’t an elite player anymore. I’m aware that he’s breaking the aging curve but it’s not like he can’t hold his own in the league at this point. Last year, after the worst season in his career, he still managed to be worth 2.5 wins despite terrible defense and just had a 7 win season the year before.

    I’m not saying he’s worth more than 3/45 but they might actually get surplus value out of that if he can just gracefully age. I could see his value being something like 4.3, 3.6, 2.9 WAR over the next three years. I’m not saying that he should get significantly more than that, but I think he’s probably worth that contract on the field.

    Comment by Chip — November 23, 2010 @ 11:00 pm

  60. A smooth aging curve along the one that you described could well happen…but at career ends players seem to nosedive off cliffs, so you end up seeing something like 3.8, 1.1, 0.4 type progressions oftentimes. (The “Brian Westbrook” progression, as it were.)

    Comment by Jason B — November 23, 2010 @ 11:44 pm

  61. If capitalism really worked Barry Zito wouldn’t have over $100 million dollars.

    Comment by David B. — November 24, 2010 @ 1:52 am

  62. Actually, if a player wants his team to win, it kind of is a problem for him to try to get as much as he can get, past the amount deserved. Every extra million makes zero difference whatsoever to Jeter’s lifestyle but it may mean the Yankees spend less on other complimentary players.

    Comment by David B. — November 24, 2010 @ 1:55 am

  63. I keep reading comments like this and don’t get it. He’s unfrickingbelievably rich so I don’t understand why he needs to max out this contract because it’s his last one. He ain’t gonna be doin no part time job at Lowe’s after he retires.

    Comment by ATrain — November 24, 2010 @ 1:56 am

  64. How much would it be worth to the Mets to sign Jeter to 3 years 45 million and move Reyes to 2B and shop Castillo. Both Castillo and Reyes are FA after 2011.

    How many Jeter fans do you think would watch Mets games (at park or TV) as Jeter goes for 3000 hits next year.

    Jeter would keep most of 8.5 million in endorsements staying in NY. Mets rating and attendance go up. If the Yankees have a tough year folks will talk about a Jeter curse, as ratings dwindle and attendance drops off. The Yankees have a significant amount of debt (team and subsidiaries) and would not want Moody’s dropping the ratings on the 1.2 billion in bonds they are responsible for. Miss a payment and Goldman Sachs will be all over them as the Steinbrenners get the Hicks treatment.

    Jeter can say he will be leaving out of principal and that it is not the money, to avoid fans calling him a no good greedy SOB..

    I think the Yankees might sweat that one a bit, if only the Mets play along.

    Comment by pft — November 24, 2010 @ 2:21 am

  65. LOL

    Comment by exxrox — November 24, 2010 @ 2:27 am

  66. Lets say Jeter is a 2.5 WAR SS each season the next 3 years. The revenue he would be expected to generate in a league average market and team is 10 million. That’s the upper limit on what he could make each year. But he plays for the Yankees with a much larger market, 2 times the average team/market. Therefore, his revenue generation would be 20 million with the Yankees if he was just a regular 2.5 WAR player. Add to this his popularity, which means his 2.5 WAR generates even more revenue than a regular player, and you can see where Jeter is coming from.

    Comment by pft — November 24, 2010 @ 2:30 am

  67. because the Yankees can get an average shortstop and pay him $10 mil and tell jeter to suck it. overpaid ingrate can hit the road if he doesn’t like their already inflated offer. let the real mkt open jeter’s eyes.

    Comment by Wow — November 24, 2010 @ 2:40 am

  68. i saw something online that said Jeter wants 5-6 years at $20 mil per, lol.

    Comment by Wow — November 24, 2010 @ 2:42 am

  69. first you say everyone is acting like Jeter isn’t an elite player any more(which is true) but all you can say in his defense is that “he can hold his own”, lol…elite players do better than “hold their own”…Juan Uribe was better than jeter last year…

    Comment by Wow — November 24, 2010 @ 2:47 am

  70. the Yankees would be best served by letting Jeter take that offer. it would hurt the Red Sox, and Jeter comes out looking like the bad guy.

    Comment by JCP — November 24, 2010 @ 3:10 am

  71. Bug Jonathan, does he play hard?

    Comment by dnc — November 24, 2010 @ 3:31 am

  72. reply fail

    *but Jonathan

    Comment by dnc — November 24, 2010 @ 3:32 am

  73. 3 years $45 million isn’t going to get Jeter out of Pinstripes. Hell, right now it’s not going to get Jeter IN Pinstripes. The Mets would have to go much higher than that.

    Comment by dnc — November 24, 2010 @ 3:41 am

  74. Numerous conflicting factors here.

    Jeter may actually think he is worth ARod money, and may well believe that he has been underpaid during his last contract. Whether its buying into his own hype, or the self-confidence it takes to think you are the top dog in a kennel full of supermutts. And he probably doesn’t care much for defensive metrics and believes he is a GG SS. His hitting, although a down year was still productive, so maybe he justifies that to himself that way.

    It would be a bit difficult to square this for him come March when he sees Arod getting paid nearly 2x as much as the Captain for twice as long. He would lose a lot of face in the clubhouse wouldn’t he? Not liking the office banter of ARod picking up the dinner check now that ‘Jetes’ has fallen on hard times… Think it would be difficult for him to accept the new pecking order

    He is also going to face C.Lee coming in on a large contract – his position is if the Yanks can afford this, why can’t they afford to give a fair deal to the Cap?

    Shame for Derek that the economy has declined since 2007 and the Arod Opt-out (its a shame the Yanks ponied up for him), and it’s a shame that ARod opted out after a MVP year, and Jetes ended his contract on a bit of a down year.

    Usually for a FA contract, you historically paid going forward for the past performance, but he doesn’t get that this is changing with brighter guys advising the front offices. They understand now about ageing, defence and the like.

    I think its 3/45 is a fair offer, leaves the Yanks a bit of room to up it at the end to save Jeter some face, though I could see how that on planet Jeter it would appear a bit of a slap in the face.

    Comment by Paul — November 24, 2010 @ 3:53 am

  75. I think people are assuming the offensive production last year is his new baseline and he will be heading down from there.

    He was 50 points off his career BABIP (and with an increased GB rate this is even more striking)… I can see the GB rate impacting his ISO, wOBA, etc… but his BABIP decline seems a bit out of the ordinary (especially when coupled with the GB increase).

    While his defense isn’t going to get any better his offense may bounce back (regress) a bit for a year or two before starting to decline again… if his offense goes up even a little I don’t think it’s out of the question he averages a bit over 3 WAR the next 2 years (which would put him in the 15mil range). Of course the 3rd year is especially tricky because as soon as he moves off SS, his WAR drops like a rock. The people saying his value is 2years at 6mil per need to do the WAR conversion on that and ask if that comment is being colored by their perception of Jeter and/or the Yankees

    I think in the SABR defense arbitrage world we live in people are not realizing that Derek Jeter’s worst year of his career was still better overall (WAR) than all but 2 AL SS’s

    Comment by Hank — November 24, 2010 @ 6:08 am

  76. I don’t see the big hubbub here either. I think what he’s doing is fine. So he wants more money than he deserves. Simple solution: Don’t give it to him. Nobody will offer him more. Nobody will offer him within 5m of it even. So, you just leave the offer on the table. Is Jeter going to take less money to play elsewhere? Retire?

    All in all, I don’t think Jeter is doing anything bad. Mainly, I find it really funny. It’s kind of like if you go looking for a job, and you deserve something like 60k. And the guy looks you straight in the eye and says: “100k.” And you look at him and say… “That’s not a real offer.”

    I mean… if anything, it’s dumb for Jeter. If I was that boss, I would then say “Oh, I meant 95k. Sorry.”

    But anyways they both need each other, but Jeter is the one with the risk. What if the Yankees wait a while then say: “Naw… 40 million actually.” Or if he breaks his wrist stuffing a turkey this Thanksgiving. Jeter has stuff to lose. The worst the Yankees get is a media debacle (of which they always have many) and a cheaper shortstop.

    Comment by B N — November 24, 2010 @ 6:21 am

  77. I think skinning unborn kids is really tough. That’s like… some sort of special C-section if I ever heard of one.

    Plus, a good number of owners aren’t in baseball specifically for the business aspect. Clearly, a good number of these guys are actually just big baseball fans who want the big power trip of owning a team. Unfortunately, they don’t usually make very good owners… haha.

    Comment by B N — November 24, 2010 @ 6:27 am

  78. @Steve

    I think you’re confused. That’s what the Red Sox did to Nomar when they showed him the door.

    Comment by B N — November 24, 2010 @ 6:32 am

  79. I hear that. I will TOTALLY not settle for less than $20m and 5. You don’t know how important my intangibles are for my research lab, yo.

    Comment by B N — November 24, 2010 @ 6:33 am

  80. The problem with that being that A-Rod is not going to be worth A-Rod money. I have no idea how that contract ever got signed, but as a Red Sox fan I have to imagine I’ll be happier and happier with it as the years go by. :)

    Comment by B N — November 24, 2010 @ 6:36 am

  81. I have no problem with Jeter trying to get as much as he can or the Yankees trying to save as much as they can. But I don’t like that the two sides are making this fight so public. It makes both sides look bad. As the comments to this point have shown, Jeter and the Yankees arguing over a few million dollars makes the rest of us a little nauseous. Why can’t both sides just shut up and get the deal done?

    Comment by Munson — November 24, 2010 @ 6:59 am

  82. As I said before, Jeter hasn’t said a word. His agent is purposely trying to bring this out into the public. He’s got no leverage other than the heart strings of New York reporters and Yankee fans.

    If he kept this private, here’s how it would be:
    Article 1: “Yankees offer Jeter 3/$45

    Article 2: “Jeter accepts 3/$45″

    You think Close just randomly said he was “baffled?” These guys know what they’re doing. Even if that number doesn’t change, Close needs to prove to Jeter that he’s earning his cut.

    Comment by noseeum — November 24, 2010 @ 7:48 am

  83. If any Yankee fan got a whiff of Jeter talking with the Red Sox, Jeter would be dead to the Yankees pure and simple. Jeter would have to be insane to be courting the nemesis up I-95.

    Comment by YiYang — November 24, 2010 @ 8:10 am

  84. After this entire process, it’s a bit too late for Jeter to come out and say he moved on principle and not for the money.

    And yes, I say he should go that route, even though I’m a Yankee fan. Jeter has been a great part of the Yankees over the last decade plus. But the Yankees have kicked better players to the curb before. I think it’s Jeter’s turn now.

    Comment by YiYang — November 24, 2010 @ 8:16 am

  85. Yep, no Yankee fan ever cheered Bernie Williams again after he almost signed with the Red Sox, and instead used them as leverage to get a richer offer from the Yankees…

    Comment by Mike K — November 24, 2010 @ 8:54 am

  86. I miss ‘this guy’.

    This thread of one sided opinions, no real baseball stats, the Yankees, Manny, etc would have been right up his alley. I think he could have carried this to 200+ comments by himself. Oh well.

    Comment by Ty — November 24, 2010 @ 8:55 am

  87. I like the phrase “businesses that are under the umbrella of capitalism”. Look ma, it’s raining workers. Don’t worry son, we are under the umbrella of capitalism.

    The Jeter spectacle has, of course, everything to do with Broadway theatre/celebrity and nothing to do with age old negotiations/struggles between workers and employers. Jeter’s post-baseball career will be very rewarding if he has been paying attention. “Derek” cologne, “Jetes” on Broadway…

    Comment by Mike Green — November 24, 2010 @ 9:04 am

  88. Problem for Jeter is the “brand” Close is selling so hard is in large part based on his image as the epitome of class, team-first mentality. If he comes out of these negotiations looking like an arrogant, greedy, me-first guy, he may end up costing himself $ in the endorsement market pre- and post-retirement.

    Comment by Bindivin — November 24, 2010 @ 9:44 am

  89. online store———–

    U G G($48)

    N F L ($28)

    Comment by yujrfgh — November 24, 2010 @ 9:50 am

  90. There are PLENTY of elite players that just “hold their own” defensively. Some of them struggle to do that.

    Since defense is still so under-valued, any time someone is talking about an “elite player” in MLB, they are almost always talking about the bat.

    At the other extreme, Ozzie Smith was an elite player that “held his own” at the plate (if that), but was very good on defense and running the bases.

    Comment by CircleChange11 — November 24, 2010 @ 9:59 am

  91. Do franchise players have no additional value?

    Ozzie Smith, Cal Ripken, Tony Gwynn … these guys that basically define a franchise … become the singluar face of the franchise.

    Isn’t Jeter pretty much that guy for the past 2 decades of the NYY.

    IMO, you don’t pay these guys like everyone else, and you don’t just “show them the door” as you would any other player.

    There are some people making some tremendously stupid and unrealistic statements in this thread.

    My personal opinion is that he’s been over-paid his entire career. So if someone wanted to say that the NYY have already paid for his “value” plus some, i would agree with that. But, what I don;t get is how NYY wants to get vlaue-spending NOW, when they already thrown over-paid money at everyone EXCEPT the face of their franchise. ARod is over-paid until he’s 42. Burnett is over-paid for the remainder of his contract, and so on and so on, and so is life as a Yankee, where they deal with “Monopoly Money”. Always have, always will.

    I just find it strange, perhaps, hypocritical, that with Jeter, the NYY wnat to pay someone for their on-field value only. Then, they’ll over the next 4 FA’s they sign (perhaps all THIS off-season), if for no other reason than “they can”.

    If the NYY were consistently smart with money, then I would be on their side. But they aren’yt. They’re the musclebound teenager who’s too big for their parents to do anything about it, so they do whatever they want, whenever they want, however they want, and no one can do anything about it. Now, THAT team wants to be fiscally responsible with the face of their franchise. He’s supposed to take less while the player to his right will be overpaid for the next 4 years?

    I have NEVER been a fan of Jeter, and basically feel he’s go unnoticed if he were a Brewer. But, in this case, I’m actually on his side, because this isn’t fantasy baseball where those involved are just names and numbers, with no emotional attachment to anything.

    I’m actually on Jeter’s side on this one. Again, I just find it very strange that they START being fiscally-responsible with him, after they’ve overpaid everyone else, and will likely overpay Lee, and Crawford, and whoever they decide to sign.

    Comment by CircleChange11 — November 24, 2010 @ 10:12 am

  92. I think that’s exactly what the Yankees are doing. They are overpaying him. And they view the offer they’ve made as being inclusive of what he means to the team. At his age, he should be looking at a $10 million annual contract if he’s lucky, and not many teams would give him 3 years.

    They’re offering 3/$15. That doesn’t mean they won’t give him $17, but their first offer is fair. What they won’t do is give him 6 years.

    Comment by noseeum — November 24, 2010 @ 10:23 am

  93. Read that again. No one said he could “hold his own defensively”. They said he can “hold his own”. period. meaning he is still a decent player. which, by definition, probably does not mean “elite”.

    You misread.

    Comment by Steve — November 24, 2010 @ 10:33 am

  94. Agree with this,

    though its perhaps surprising that the Yanks are playing hardball with their heroes (Bernie, later Mariano, now Jeter) while willingly overpaying for anything new and shiny.

    Maybe it is an effect of the nasty ARod contract – ‘won’t get fooled again…’

    I don’t think he has been particularly overpaid – Jeter looks like he has been paid just about fairly over his last contract – 10/189 for 46.2 WAR, hope he can come back a bit better next year and make a good move up the hit leaderboard

    Comment by Paul — November 24, 2010 @ 10:36 am

  95. Just as the Red Sox have been able to compete with tens of millions of dead money on their payroll over the last 3-4 seasons, so will the Yankees in the last few years of A-Rod’s contract. After another year or two, his salary starts dropping and he will “only” make $20M/year at the end of his deal.

    Not much more than the Sox paying Lugo, Penny, Smoltz, Lowell, Renteria, Manny, Dice-K, etc. to play elsewhere/not play/sit on the DL, etc.

    Comment by Steve — November 24, 2010 @ 10:39 am

  96. The 2 year $18.5M deal Renteria signed is a lot closer to the hypothetical 2/$12M deal than Jeter’s 3/$45M offer.

    Comment by gorillagogo — November 24, 2010 @ 10:39 am

  97. The problem is that there’s a reason you don’t pay for franchise player off the field value. It’s because no other team will pay that amount. The Yankees pay free agents giant contracts because that’s what it takes to sign them – free agents from other teams get overpriced. It’s not like the Yankees massively overshoot the market for guys like Teixeira/Burnett, they just have the ability to sign more of them without worrying about a restrictive budget.

    But this all comes down to available options. Why should the Yankees overpay Jeter if in the end, he’ll have to take their offer? With all the praise he gets for his attitude, it seems unlikely he’d pull a Manny and sulk with a new deal that he doesn’t like.

    Comment by todmod — November 24, 2010 @ 10:43 am

  98. This long screed only makes sense if you believe his “on field only value” is $45M/3.

    It’s not. It surely a bit lower than that. Maybe at the top of the range, $24M/2? $39M/3 if someone got drunk and decided to go absolutely crazy.

    So, the yankees have already built in everything you are talking about.

    But carry on reflexively bashing the Yankees for something they aren’t doing.

    Comment by Steve — November 24, 2010 @ 10:43 am

  99. @kbertling353:

    Isn’t ‘Randian’ a perjorative term for ‘Objectivist’? ;)

    Good points though

    Comment by wihargo — November 24, 2010 @ 11:09 am

  100. I think that Derek Jeter deserves every opportunity to leverage his past and his importance to the history of the Yankees towards a richer, longer contract. He’s not gonna get it, of course, but if anyone deserves to have one chance to extol his own abilities and extort the richest team in history, it’s derek jeter. the man never, ever talks about himself; in fact, it deserves mention that hes not doing any of the talking now.

    The yankees made a very fair offer to Jeter, but it’s still a paycut and Jeter (and his people) probably did not envision this past season’s debacle happening. I understand why jeter would be upset, and he will need to get over it. Derek Jeter will not see a contract offer close to this on the open market, not in years or in money.

    But to compare him to manny ramirez??? Really Dave? I know you don’t care much for Jeter, but this is a pretty big stretch. Manny Ramirez is one of the more reviled players in baseball right now, and commands little respect. Can each player be accused of overplaying their hand? Yes. But Jeter has every right to, at least once in his life.

    Besides, if jeter has a even a modest comeback year next year and hits .300/.370/.800, this is an even sillier discussion.

    Comment by David — November 24, 2010 @ 11:15 am

  101. If a brewer were less than 100 hits shy of 3,000 during a career where he won 5 WS he’d be noticed. I think I understand the point you are trying to make, but they guy has accomplished quite a bit in his career. I don’t think any guy with 3,000 hits gets unnoticed. Before last year, in his 16 years he has been a very good to great player, in a giant market, playing a difficult position and he has stayed heathly over that span.

    He wants to get paid based on his prior performance and intanigibles and the Yankees seem to have already agreed with a $45mm offer. I’m not sure what the damage would be for the Yankees to throw an extra year on there…it’s only money, they don’t need to play him.

    Comment by Ty — November 24, 2010 @ 11:31 am

  102. This isn’t river ave blues jonathan. It doesn’t fly here.

    Comment by hey — November 24, 2010 @ 11:32 am

  103. Pretty sure he won’t slug .800 next year…

    Comment by Jason B — November 24, 2010 @ 11:45 am

  104. The Yankees pay free agents giant contracts because that’s what it takes to sign them – free agents from other teams get overpriced.

    In part. They also overbid just to eliminate any competition.

    There was a time than the NYY had double the number of 20M/y players as anyone else (perhaps everyone else combined), and it wasn’t because they outbid everyone. It was because they were throwing money around as if it were confetti. No other team would have paid these players 20M/y, but they NYY did.

    I’m sure Jeter can recall Giambi and others, who were paid extraordinary contracts, only to perform below expectations at positions less important than Jeter.

    If the NYY have learned their lesson, and are trying to become more fiscally responsible (yeah right), then they should/could let him walk.

    Let him crawl back to the NYY original offer and take your stand and set your precedent.

    My hesitation is that NYY could/would do that in this situation, but then give the next 3 FA’s ridiculous contracts and completely negate the positive step forward made previously.

    We’ve all seen this from the NYY. Try to be reasonable financially, and then have Boston gain ground, and then they just get absolutely stupid with money in panic mode. The bad part is that they are so large (probably 15M for the one team) that normal consequences don’t apply.

    Comment by CircleChange11 — November 24, 2010 @ 11:45 am

  105. He wouldn’t have won 5 titles with the Brewers (probably no GG’s either).

    I exaggerate intentionally. As a brewer, he would have likely been their All-Star rep every other year.

    Derek Jeter has basically atained a “Chuck Norris” or “Jack Bauer” type of perception, where “Yes, Derek Jeter can divide by zero” type of thing.

    Comment by CircleChange11 — November 24, 2010 @ 11:48 am

  106. @ Circle — I disagree entirely with the notion that there are PLENTY of elite players, period. The fact that they are “elite” contradicts the notion that there are plenty of them. There may be a couple of elite players who simply “hold their own” defensively but there certainly are not plenty of them, since there aren’t plenty of elite players at all.

    Comment by chuckb — November 24, 2010 @ 11:53 am

  107. Derek Jeter is not just “some other guy” who happened to be on the right team all these years. From 1997-2006, he had just 1 season where he was worth fewer than 4 wins and from 1997-2009, 13 seasons, he was never worth fewer than 3.5 wins in a season. He has 70 WAR for his career and is a sure-fire Hall of Famer — Gold Gloves, World Championships or not. I will allow that Jeter has been overrated for much of his career but he has still been a very good player for a very long time.

    The idea that he would go unnoticed as a Brewer or be their All-Star rep “every other year” is difficult for me to fathom. He’d have been the best SS in the NL most years between 1997 and 2009 whether he was playing for the Brewers or anyone else in the league. I’d say that 3/45 is about right for him going forward, considering what he’s done for the Yankees franchise but he has not been “just some other guy” for the last 14 years.

    Comment by chuckb — November 24, 2010 @ 12:02 pm

  108. Bahahah. Had to chuckle at this. I agree…

    Comment by Locke — November 24, 2010 @ 12:06 pm

  109. This post sums up the situation completely. Steve is right on the money.

    They are already paying him his legacy fee, as it were. 3@45 is very generous.

    Comment by Locke — November 24, 2010 @ 12:09 pm


    Jeter needs a new contract.

    The market value for his body is probably around 3@12, but he has tons of off field value to the NYY. Cashman recognizes this, and thus has offered 3@15. Jeter is holding out for more money, because he feels his legacy is worth more and they Yankees have the money, certainly not because he thinks his baseball value is worth more than 15per.

    The game of chicken will end, as Dave has alluded to, with the players giving in, because ultimately, her has no leverage when the offer on the table is so much greater than his market value.

    Cashman knows this, and therefore knows he has nothing to lose except some temporary bad PR, because in the end he will be justified in his actions when no other teams come within a sniff of offering him 3/45.

    Jeter is being an idiot.

    To all the people who say “The Yankees are bad with money and overpay all the time, therefore they should overpay Jeter now”, the answer is: Two wrongs don’t make a right… and besides, 3@15 is already overpaying. They can’t seriously pay him 18 or 20 million a year to play awful defense and hit like crap. He could honestly be sitting on the bench in 3 years making 15 million as it is.

    Comment by Locke — November 24, 2010 @ 12:19 pm

  111. Is there a way to quantify a player’s marketing value to an organization? Because signing Jeter also guarantees the sale of a whole bunch of Jeter Jerseys, which ought to count for something. Are past jersey sales a good off-hand indicator? How do you account for Jeter’s ability to better push gear that isn’t strictly Jeter-related – say, NY hats? (On that note, should the Yankees be paying Jay-Z?)

    There are probably tangible, and not just sentimental, reasons why the yankees need jeter

    Comment by Andy — November 24, 2010 @ 12:24 pm

  112. This is a good post, intended for people who lack perspective. Jeter has been THE guy in New York for over a decade, he’s simply not comprehending the fact that he is not New York’s best player anymore,
    like he was when he signed that contract in after 2000. HE signed the ten year contract. If he signed a seven year contract he wouldn’t have to worry about these hardball negotiations.

    Kind of hard to believe Jeter was the best player in baseball over that two year span (98-99). Of course, he did sign the contract a year of substantial drop in his play. The only difference that he is 36, and isn’t hitting .339 anymore.

    Comment by Mike R. — November 24, 2010 @ 12:40 pm

  113. I am in complete agreement. Jeter has been a great player and there’s no argument. 70 WAR, you can add about another five with his posseason numbers, was arguably the best player in baseball at one point in his career. However, great player + five rings + New York = instant overratedness. The jump throw, that dive into the stands are nothing special (I can’t take anything away from “the flip” in 2001. That turned around an entire series and it’s been largely forgotten over the last decade). Then when A-Rod came to NY, there was the whole Jeter > A-Rod and JETER IZ TE CLUTCH movement.

    While he is no A-Rod or Bonds on the scale of hate, there is no doubt that before these contract negotiations, Jeter has been a target of many folks who have even a semblance of knowledge of sabermetrics. So began the whole “Jeter is overrated and he’s the worst defender in the league” movement.” True, besides the occasional year in which he sported an above average UZR, Jeter has been a downright awful defender. However, to state that Jeter is the worst defender in the league over his entire career is hyperbolic. While Jeter has been as ineffective as say, Marcus Thames, at his position, he did that at SS, so at least he provided the opportunity for better defenders at other positions. Of course the masses took these criticisms as gospel, ignoring the bigger picture: that despite his total defensive ineptitude, he is a great player. Look at the 128 wRC+, which is almost unheard of for is position.

    As for him not being as famous if he was a Brewer, look at Robin Yount, who is a pretty good comparison with Jeter. Sure, in his time he was not nearly as popular as Jeter, but do people deny that he was a great player like so many do concerning Jeter? Same thing for Tony Gwynn? Popularity comes with criticism as well.

    Comment by Mike R. — November 24, 2010 @ 1:12 pm

  114. Does anyone have a sense of what the Yankee’s alternatives for 2011 SS would be if Jeter signed with SF or someone else?

    Comment by Aloysius — November 24, 2010 @ 1:15 pm

  115. I agree two wrongs don’t make a right. But you don’t start new policy/practices with your most visible and noteworthy employee.

    I just find it strange that Jeter has to be the ONE guy on the NYY with a reasonable contract. *grin*

    I imagine Jeter’s looking around at his teammates and their contracts, and thinking “Oh, I’m going to be the ONLY guy paid at market value (by choice). I don’t think so.”

    Jeter’s value is basically as a 3-4WAR player. So, his on-field value is around what? 12-18 M/y? Where exactly is the “off-field stuff” being factored in.

    The discussion is treating Jeter as if he is a 3 WAR player and 15 M is an over-pay. That may be the case, but try proving he’s a 3 WAR player without using any one season as if it were the “true talent” level.

    Comment by CircleChange11 — November 24, 2010 @ 1:23 pm

  116. Sure, but (almost) every Jeter jersey sold is split 30 ways.

    Comment by Steve — November 24, 2010 @ 1:43 pm

  117. “I mean except for all those athletes that take less money even when they have other options. All zero of them.”

    Baron Davis (NBA) signed for about 4 mil less per year to play in his hometown, and many other star players in every sport have willingly taken hometown discounts to stay with their respective teams in order to help their clubs–some even willingly take pay cuts in order to open up more money to either resign current teammates or sign new FAs…

    Comment by Eric — November 24, 2010 @ 2:00 pm

  118. “I just find it strange that Jeter has to be the ONE guy on the NYY with a reasonable contract.”

    But that’s the point you keep missing. 3/45 is NOT very reasonable based on his production and likely production going forward in his age 38-40 seasons. They are ALREADY overpaying with that offer. Which makes him one in a long line of many, not the first to bear the brunt of a radical sea change to their approach.

    They are already going to be overpaying somewhat, based on what he’s done before and what he represents to the franchise – namely the face for the most storied franchise in the game. They know that, he knows that, his agent knows that, the fans know that. They are just attempting to keep some semblance of sanity with the EXTENT to which they are overpaying him.

    Comment by Jason B — November 24, 2010 @ 2:22 pm

  119. Jeter is keeping his mouth shut and letting his agent do his job. Maybe he isn’t baffled by the offer at all. Naturally, Close is going to think Jeter has the most value of anyone, and has reason to suspect that the Yankees might improve their offer despite it being “fair” to one side or even to most objective observers. There’s no deadline, no take it or leave it stuff going on, so it stands to reason this is a step in negotiations and early in the process. For a guy who is aging, and plays a demanding position, Jeter sure plays a lot of games per year. That has value too, even if you don’t think he’s all-star quality anymore, he saves you money with his durability and the often mentioned marketability. It’s not just endorsements for him, it’s money that can be made for the Yankees from him. I think the push will be for more years, even as an indefinite option, so he can “retire” as a Yankee without being forced to before he’s ready. A guy who reveres DiMaggio so much, could be someone who actually walks away when he should.

    Comment by mockcarr — November 24, 2010 @ 2:26 pm

  120. I’m sure the yankees would be happy to give Jeter a perpetual mutual option at $5M/year so he can play until he feels like hanging them up. At $20M/year, the Yankees would be insane to bank on a player walking away from that type of money so he can go out “with dignity”.

    Comment by Steve — November 24, 2010 @ 2:41 pm

  121. Jason B. = Captain Obvious

    Comment by Bronx — November 24, 2010 @ 2:47 pm

  122. i know, he’s gotta max out that last 3-year contract because what, he’s already gone thru the $200 million in salary and $100 mil(?) in endorsements he’s made over the last 15 years? leave a little money on the table for once. its like an 800 lb morbidly obese woman going for her 5th plate at the all you can eat buffet.

    Comment by Wow — November 24, 2010 @ 2:47 pm

  123. See article at the top of the list…Bartlett

    Comment by Bronx — November 24, 2010 @ 2:47 pm

  124. your first two paragraphs are priceless and get to the truth of the problem – Jeter probably has such inflated ego that he really believes he was Gold Glove SS and can still hit at his old level etc etc, so he sees no reason why he shouldn’t get another 5 yr x $20 mil contract…in short, he’s delusional…

    Comment by Wow — November 24, 2010 @ 3:09 pm

  125. No, I get it. I don’t AGREE with it. There’s a difference. A lot of people don’t recognize the difference because to not agree with them means that the person must not understand what they’re saying.

    For it to be an overpay Jeter would have to be considered a 3 WAR SS, at best.

    His historical numbers show he is most likely, true talent, a 3.5-4.5 WAR SS, with the potential for both 3.5 WAR or 6.5 WAR seasons.

    I conceded that the current contract includes a “Jeter Overpay” component IF, and it’s a BIG if, we demonstrate that Jeter is a 3 WAR SS worth 12M/y. His historical stats show he’s much more likely to produce in the 15M range (indicating about 3.5-4.0 WAR season).

    Factor in the 3K hit milestone and that the NYY are still a WS candidate, and there is so value his way.

    At this site, given common practice, I don;t think you can state or insinuate that Jeter is only worth 10M a year, without quantifying it in WAR/$

    To say he’s worth 10M/y is to say that he is basically worth far less value than he has been in ANY season of his career. A person could make that statement. But, I don;t think it’s accurate at all.

    Again, I get it. I just don’t agree with it.

    Comment by CircleChange11 — November 24, 2010 @ 3:20 pm

  126. last 3 seasons WAR for Jeter:
    BB Ref:_____ 2.7__6.5__1.3
    FanGraphs : 3.7__7.1__2.5

    might be stretching it to think he would average even 3.5 over the next 3 years given his age…

    Comment by Wow — November 24, 2010 @ 3:37 pm

  127. so Jeter is an “innings eater”? (even if he’s not that good anymore)”For a guy who is aging, and plays a demanding position, Jeter sure plays a lot of games per year. That has value too, even if you don’t think he’s all-star quality anymore, he saves you money with his durability……”

    damn, you’ve sold me now…he deserves $20 mil/year AT LEAST….he can be the Barry Zito of the Yankees…

    Comment by Wow — November 24, 2010 @ 3:44 pm

  128. I told him he should start up his own blog but he said he was too lazy. Maybe he got some motivation.

    Comment by odbsol — November 24, 2010 @ 4:10 pm

  129. I have been a Yankee fan since 63 so I guess I have seen a lot of good teams and players and lot of bad teams and players. Derek Jeter ranks right up there with the best of them. He is a leader, he performs on the field, and yes perhaps at his age his is not as good as he was when he was 27, but then who is. I do hope this gets worked out properly for both sides. This has the same foundation as the Brett Favre situation a few years ago when the Packers finally said enough is enough. They would have taken Brett back but he kept changing his mind and then wanted a ton of money. Packer management made a fair offer and finally decided to go with Aaron Rodgers. Today they are a better team for it. I hope this situation does not go down that road. Derek if you read any of these comments, please understand your whole career has been as a Yankee and your future in baseball if you want one should be with the Yankees. It would be sad to see the first Captain since Thurman Munson walk away from a team that has brought him and his family so much. Saying that he has also brought the Yankees a lot. So its a perfect fit. 3 years for 45 million is not a bad deal. Think back when you came into the league…..could you ever envision yourself saying NO to 15 million a year. Good luck to you Derek Jeter I hope you stay and help lead the Yankees to another championship. I am a Canadian fan living far away from New York, but I follow the team as if it was playing in my back yard. Good luck to ya

    Comment by Harry — November 24, 2010 @ 4:12 pm

  130. Harry, what a charming post, I hope that both Derek and Brian both read these comments and reconcile their differences.

    Comment by Eric — November 24, 2010 @ 4:22 pm

  131. Yes, it might be a stretch. I get that.

    But, it also might be possible.

    To me it would be a stretch to attribute him as league average or 2.0 – 2.5 WAR, which would put him at around 9 – 12 M/y depending on how the market values wins, whether it’s 4 or 5M/WAR.

    If he is actually a 2.0 to 2.5 WAR SS … then the 15M/y would be “fair” compensation considering the off-field contribution$.

    But, given past performance, he’s probably closer to the 3.0 to 3.5 WAR type, even given his decline (which will probably be slow and gradual). Given that figure, 15M/y is probably “equal to on-field value”, which would eliminate any “bonus” due to him being who he is.

    So, I think the NYY offer of 45/3, probably pays him pretty close to what he will perform on the field. I don’t think he’s a 2 WAR guy from last year, nor the 6 WAR guy he was from two years ago. I think 3.0 to 3.5 is probably accurate, and I think he’ll maintain basically that for 3 years.

    I think the best move for NYY would have been to move him to CF when Bernie retired and they got ARod. That would have been to maxmize his value, if emotions were not attached. Having him in CF, ARod at SS, and Broscious or some other 3B would have probably been best for the team, while still retaining the services of all involved.

    I do agree that no other tam will match NYY’s offer, but from Jeter’s perspective that is likely secondary, because very few, if any teams, would have matched the offers NYY gave to other guys they have signed.

    If NYY is making a point, and establishing a new “operating strategy”, then that’s fine. But, I’m doubtful they will be consistent withthat approach, especially when they are going to likely break the bank for Lee, and perhaps Crawford. Had they re-signed ARod and payed him as 3-4 WAR player through age 42, then that would have been consistent. But they paid him as a 5-6 WAR guy even though the odds that he is still performing that way through his 40s are long against.

    I find arguing FOR Jeter as being as strange as defending Ryan Howard, but in both cases the knee-jerk reaction against seem to be a little drastic. Moreso in Howard’s case because the contract is so much more overpay than this one, but I usually defend Howard as still being a MVP candidate type (even though WAR and MVP voting aren’t always congruent). Any time Howard hits 40 HRs and 100 RBIs and the Phils win the division, he’ll finish top 5 (whether he deserves it or not).

    Comment by CircleChange11 — November 24, 2010 @ 4:30 pm

  132. The difference is, obviously, that the Packers felt (perhaps knew) that they had an All-Pro QB waiting in the wings.

    Favre has, for the most part, been forgotten (at least as a current player) in GB, because Aaron Rodgers has been outstanding and Favre has showed some undesirable behavior by holding 2 other organizations hostage with his continual flip-flopping … and poor on field play.

    I hope that this does establish a new Yankee strategy, because IMO, when they were throwing 20M/y at EVERYONE, it was killing interest over the winter, and establishing a bad precedent. Plus, it was just bad management, even for the team that has excess beyond imagination.

    Comment by CircleChange11 — November 24, 2010 @ 4:34 pm

  133. I’m going got out on a limb and say that NYY spending is better described as “Tons of money to make large and consistent FA acquisitions” as opposed to “Tons of money to overpay players as a general rule”. It’s not like they overpay everyone. They just overpay to get what they want, and that leverage is best used on the open market. In reality (and despite some horrible signings (Burnett, Pavano etc)) they are somewhat shrewd about it. They are not working with an infinite budget, and they’re not about to throw 15 million away on a guy if they don’t have to. (I assume Jeter wants about 20 per for 3, or 17 for 4.)

    As your argument implies, what makes this so tricky is: What the hell is Jeter’s true talent level right now? This question is impossible because of how crazy good his 09 season was, and how crappy by comparison his ’10 was.

    Personally, I think his true talent is 3.5/3/2.5 WAR over the next three years. It could easily be better, and it could easily be equally worse. In this light, they are giving him a 3mil legacy raise, which I think is pretty appropriate. It’s in line with other players who were in the same situation (Chipper) and it’s line with the marketplace (no one else in the league will come close to offering him 3/15).

    I still think the Yanks are in the right.

    Comment by Locke — November 24, 2010 @ 4:47 pm

  134. When I look at the Yankees payroll, I really don’t see people being overpaid by as much as you make it seem in your posts. Sure, they throw money around like crazy, I admit that of course. But mostly these are at guys entering their prime, or big money FAs who they need to pay to actually get them to sign. Jeter is neither, and I’m not sure they’ve had to make an offer to anyone quite like Jeter in recent years. They aren’t in the business of just burning money.

    Comment by Locke — November 24, 2010 @ 4:57 pm

  135. They currently are not paying a bunch of guys 20M/y, previously they were.

    The Jeter deal, viewed in light of the ARod deal, seems very strange … particularly given the relationship between ARod, Jeter, and the organization.

    In 2007, NYY gave ARod a 10y/275M contract, that pays him ridiculously through the age of 42. I’m guessing, based on human nature, that this is in the front of Jeter’s mind when he’s viewing the 45/3 contract he is currently being offered.

    My guess is when it is time for Chase Utley to get a new deal, he uses Howard’s contract as a point of reference as well. IMO, that does not make Utley a selfish prick.

    Comment by CircleChange11 — November 24, 2010 @ 5:09 pm

  136. I think we’re all in agreement that we don’t want to read about this for another three or four months, right?
    No other team is going to compensate Jeter for his feeling underpaid for the past few years.
    No other team is going to offer 3/$45m. Well, we should think of the stupidest GM we know of, and see if he has that kind of money to throw around. Or, who has a worse shortstop and that Jeter would be an improvement? This really narrows down the list.
    So, instead of giving the media the gift that lasts for four months, Jeter should simply sign the contract.

    Comment by SOB in TO — November 24, 2010 @ 5:25 pm

  137. To add to Eric, see also Dawson, Andre and Wakefield, Tim

    Comment by Orangeman94 — November 24, 2010 @ 5:41 pm

  138. How can you argue that 3/45 is only equal to on field value and then say you don’t think any team would match it? If 3/45 is fair, the surely some other team that needs a shortstop would make the offer.

    If Beltre leaves, the Red Sox could definitely do it. If he accepts, then it’s “equal to his on field value” and as a bonus annoys the Yankees. If he doesn’t, it makes the Yankees spend more to keep him. If you think that won’t happen, then you are acknowledging that 3/45 is an overpay.

    Comment by Tony — November 24, 2010 @ 6:55 pm

  139. @ Circle Change – i disagree with most of your take on Jeter but i gotta say that you are at least fair in re his potential WAR for the next 3 years…and i agree that 3.5-4.0 avg could happen…

    Comment by Wow — November 24, 2010 @ 8:58 pm

  140. How can you argue that 3/45 is only equal to on field value and then say you don’t think any team would match it?

    Very good question.

    Because I don’t think any other team is willing to risk spending 45 M over 3 years for a SS that will be in his late 30s.

    It doesn;t have so much to do with whether Jeter will perform to the value of the contract, as it is no other team may be willing to risk it. The NYY can, and will, because of their situation and their relationship with Jeter. I could be very wrong about other teams and the risk. There may be some teams, particularly contenders looking to add a good bat and experience/leadership, not to mention a mega-star (in terms of attention) to their roster.

    I’m also not sure Jeter is willing to accept more money to play for Washington, Atlanta, San Fran, Detroit, St. Louis, or whoever.

    I guess I just kind of assumed that it was locked in the NYY would not let Jeter go to another franchise.

    Comment by CircleChange11 — November 24, 2010 @ 9:00 pm

  141. @ Circle Change – i disagree with most of your take on Jeter but i gotta say that you are at least fair in re his potential WAR for the next 3 years…and i agree that 3.5-4.0 avg could happen…

    All I am doing is taking that number (say 3.5 WAR avg) and multiplying it by the market value for WAR, whether it’s 4.5M or 5.0 per WAR, and saying that 15M/y is paying him for on-field performance and none of the “Jeter Magic”.

    That was in response to the idea that 15M includes a “Jeter Bonus”, and for that be a significant reality, Jeter would need to be valued at 2 WAR, and I don’t really see the historical evidence for that to be the valid assumption.

    So, there’s a few issues at hand. But, my main discussion point is that Jeter will earn the 45 M on the field, and he’s not getting any extra $$$ for the “magic” or the revenue he brings in or will bring in with his 3K hit and so on.

    My other point was that the “fiscally responsible” NYY will be paying ARod and average of 27.5 M/y for the seasons in his late 30s and early 40s.

    The two situations viewed together, don;t make sense to me.

    Comment by CircleChange11 — November 24, 2010 @ 9:09 pm

  142. A temporary feeling of ‘entitlement’.

    Comment by Berdell Hardy — November 24, 2010 @ 11:12 pm

  143. If Jeter wants more money, he should:

    1) Fire his agent = saves $4.5MM in commission to Casey Close

    2) Make a copy of his last contract, change the numbers to $45MM/3 years, but keep the wording the same (since it worked the first time), so he doesn’t need an agent

    3) Throw Casey Close under the bus by blaming him for misrepresenting how Jeter felt about the original offer and say that he was thrilled with such a fair offer and would have signed it much sooner had Close even shown him the contract offer when it was originally received. If he’s smart he’ll do it before all the major corporations blacklist his ass from future endorsements.

    Jeter gets endorsements from being a polite guy with an exotic look. If he let’s these negotiations go south, he’s going to just be an overaged athlete with a lot of negative attention surrounding him. People don’t want you slangin’ burgers and gatorade when you OPS .700, especially when everyone thinks you are a self-righteous jerk.

    All you Yankee fans should pretend that the Yankees can’t get Cliff Lee or re-sign Rivera if Jeter gets $1 more than $15MM a season, and then tell me how much you support his contract stance. It’s easy to support a player asking for the world when you are crazy and think that the Yankees really have unlimited dollars to spend on free agents.

    Really what’s stupid is that Jeter gives 10% away to his agent and 40% away to taxes, so even if he got $20MM per season, he’d really only put $2.5MM extra in his bank account. that means if he just fired Casey Close and did his contract without an agent, he’d net $6MM-$7MM less than if he signed a $63MM/3 year deal with Casey Close getting his commission from the contract.

    Comment by Kurt — November 25, 2010 @ 3:17 am

  144. Jeter needs the Yankees, the Yankees don’t need Jeter.

    1) Jeter isn’t changing his jersey number

    2) The Yankees aren’t changing their uniforms

    3) The Yankees already sellout every game

    4) The Yankees won’t get more advertising dollars because Jeter is playing SS.

    There is absolutely nothing that benefits the Yankees in terms of memorabilia or ticket sales from Jeter coming back.

    Jeter needs the Yankees.

    1) Endorsements will be worth less money if he’s in a smaller market than NY.

    2) Moving costs money and nobody wants to start over in a new city when their career will end in less than 5 years.

    3) His best chance at winning another title would be with the Yankees.

    4) He loves NYC and would suffer being in another city that doesn’t have the night life that he has grown to expect.

    5) No other team can offer him equally money, which means that he is dependent on the Yankees’ revenue stream.

    All in all, he’s screwed if he plays hardball with the Yankees.

    Comment by Kurt — November 25, 2010 @ 3:25 am

  145. Last post is right. If he leaves Yankee fans won’t blink….they love the stripes not the men in them. They pay to see wins, not Jeter. He’d be as forgotten as Wade Boggs was when he went to Tampa

    Comment by Rico Petrocelli — November 25, 2010 @ 4:17 am

  146. I don’t think you understand Yankee fans. They understand the business aspects of baseball more than any other fanbase. You can be more objective and less emotional about these things when 9 times out of 10 your team pays whatever it needs to to get the player it wants.

    Just look at Jonny Damon from last year. He turned down the Yankees offer. Felt insulted. Probably was a little upset that there wasn’t some major backlash from the local press or the fanbase that he wasn’t able to stay.

    But then he steps up to plate in Yankee Stadium in August of 2010, and he gets a standing ovation. This helps push him towards turning down a trade to the Sox whose fans, in contrast, held up signs for Damon, member of the 2004 championship team, saying, “”Looks like Jesus, acts like Judas, throws like Mary.”

    Read more:

    Yankee fans understand this is a business, but they don’t forget their heroes. It’s quite easy to hold the same two thoughts:
    -”Don’t overpay for Jeter. If he wants $20 million for 6 years, then send him packing,”
    -”If Jeter goes to another team, I will give him a standing ovation every time he comes to town, and as soon as he retires, he better be back in the fold.”

    Comment by noseeum — November 25, 2010 @ 9:56 am

  147. I agree with you that his value is higher as an endorser and nice guy than as a BB player, and he should keep that in mind. But he pays the agent with pre-tax dollars.

    Comment by Barkey Walker — November 25, 2010 @ 1:38 pm

  148. I’d know the Mets have said that Jeter is not an option, but I’d love to see them offer him 3/$51M, maybe with an option for a fourth year, and move him to second base. If it works, they have a solution to their 2B problem; if it doesn’t, they can play the role the Red Sox can’t play of sticking it to the Yankees and making them pony up for 4-5 years of a crap shortstop/left fielder.

    Comment by Carl — November 25, 2010 @ 4:57 pm

  149. Jeter will sign with the Yankees. Why? For all the talk etc etc, Yankees are also about tradition. They will treat the “yankee players” right. By Yankee players, I mean those that you cant really see in any other uniform. Now, its basically the core4.

    Imagine, if you could timetravel a great yankee player from yesteryear to today, into Jeters scenario. Would the Yankees resign Mantle, Munson, Gehrig, Ruth, etc etc to their last contract? Of course they would. Jeter (to the Yankees organization) is up there with the HOF from bygone ages. He will sign, for his 3y/$45m and then ride off into the sunset with Rivera, Posada, and Pettitte

    Comment by Cidron — November 26, 2010 @ 1:49 am

  150. This just in, Jeter wants $150MM over 6 years because he has penis envy over A-Rod’s contract. He is said to be unwilling to budge off his demands. If I were the Yankees, I’d tell them that the contract is $45MM/3yrs. and he loses $500K from the total value for every day he waits to sign. If it gets to the point where other teams will offer more for him, than let him go. $25MM a year for 6 years is ridiculous and stupid. I hope all you Yankee fans remember that your “captain” is extorting your team and it’s probably the reason Cliff Lee hasn’t had a contract offer to date. If they do pay Jeter, there’s no more left to throw at Lee. No closer is worth $12MM, not even Rivera and he wants $36MM/2yrs. Cashman is an idiot and their $200MM payroll has the value of a $150MM payroll. They just overpay for everything, so what if you can pay, it doesn’t mean you should.

    How about we go to the car dealership and when they show you the sticker price of $25,000, you get offended that they didn’t ask for more because you clearly have the money to pay more. When they tell you the price will be $28,000 including tax and licensing, you demand to pay $40,000 or you’ll go to another dealership. You are Brian Cashman, the car is whatever free agent that you want to sign, and that’s literally what is transpiring. The problem with the Yankees isn’t that they pay for good players, it’s that they pay twice what anyone else would for their players. That’s not loyalty, it’s stupidity.

    If the Yankees want to pay $150MM/6yrs. to Jeter, than good for them, and if you don’t get annoyed with the team for paying and angry at Jeter for extorting your team, than good for you, that makes you a bigger person than me.

    Comment by Kurt — November 26, 2010 @ 11:23 am

  151. I’d rather pay the Marlins $10 million a year and take Hanley. LOL.

    “Not only will we take Hanley’s contract off your books, we’ll buy you a second baseman and a pitcher for the next four years!”

    Comment by noseeum — November 26, 2010 @ 2:14 pm

  152. Yeah, you’re right, if you are going to waste money like that, you’d be better sending prospects plus covering a large portion of the Marlins budget, so they can field more talent and you can get a good SS for that kind of money.

    I’ve never been a fan of the Yankees and like I said, I never had a problem with them spending the money to get good players, but they don’t need to overpay to get guys because of their famed history. So when they pay a guy like Alex $32MM a season for 10 years, when nobody in baseball would’ve given him 1/2 that amount is just stupid.

    They should have told Alex, $150MM/10yrs. take it or leave it. Just like what they’re doing with Jeter now. Their stance with Jeter has earned more respect with me than I would’ve ever thought possible. Even though think they should’ve drawn the line at $30MM/3yrs. or $40MM/4yrs.

    The unwillingness to put up with Jeter’s arrogance and childish demands is refreshing. I still won’t be cheering for them, but probably I won’t be hating them the way I always have either.

    I don’t care that the Yankees out spend my Mariners or that they have more “stars” because you also get more dead weight and bad contracts when you operate the way the Yankees do. I care that they give more than what a guy is worth, acting like a 100 loss team having to buy their way out of purgatory. They don’t have to be the biggest spender and it would be refreshing if they’d continue to operate the way they are with Jeter, when other in-house candidates are up for new contracts.

    Comment by Kurt — November 26, 2010 @ 6:38 pm

  153. yeah, i couldn’t believe it when i saw at MLB Trade Rumors –

    Bill Madden of NY Daily News says they want 6 years for $150 Million and won’t budge from $25 mil per year and that A-Rod’s contract is at the crux of Jeter’s stance, lol.

    then Newsday and Tim Brown(Yahoo) say those figures are off base.

    then NY Times reports that Jeter is seeking 4-5 year deal at $23-$24 mil per year.

    so Jeter is high and is indeed suffering penis envy of A-Rod.

    Comment by Sasha Grey — November 26, 2010 @ 10:17 pm

  154. Some Jeter satire:

    Comment by Bob Wickman — November 26, 2010 @ 10:32 pm

  155. LOL…Touché

    Good point on Renteria.

    I like Jeter as a player and face of the game but he’s delusional on his current value.

    Comment by NEPP — November 26, 2010 @ 11:30 pm

  156. …and Brady, Tom

    Comment by Eric F — November 28, 2010 @ 3:06 am

  157. “extort the richest team in history”
    He’s trying to sign with Manchester United?

    Comment by Eric F — November 28, 2010 @ 3:27 am

  158. Puffy’s comment is way over the top – but you’re mistaken, Don. Owner hate is not ignorant.

    Without *us*, the paying customer, there is no baseball. Or movies. Or Disneyland. There isn’t any reason to thank the owners – or corporations – we thank them with our money.

    Your relationship with them shouldn’t go beyond that; they are certainly not in the business of thanking us.

    Comment by sleepingcobra — November 28, 2010 @ 11:45 am

  159. Jeter’s emotions and actions are probably not unlike anything we would feel or do, had the same thing happened at our work.

    Imagine at your work, the company signed a big shot associate for ridiculous money through retirement. The big shot later admits to cheating, has often failed in the big moments, and is generally an arrogant prick that few like.

    Now, you on the other hand, are againg, but have been the cornerstone of the company, and have performed outstanding in the company’s best moments. You’ve been a model employee, and the face of the company for a decade plus.

    When it’s time for you to sound your last contract, the company decides to pay you for “what you’re worth”, which is far below what the big shot jerk (go with me) got.

    I’m sure all of us would just take the contract, and be thankful that we have the opportunity to work. We claim that it was a fair deal, and what Big Shot Jerk makes has nothing to do with what we should make. Certainly employees in other fields never compare their salary to co-workers, and we never, I mean never, look at salary as a reflection of the respect and appreciation the company feels toward us.

    Ceratinly Jeter is not statistically worth 25M/y … but neither is ARod. NYY made this mess, by giving the “fake Yankee” a ridiculous contract through age 42, with no chance of him being able to perform at a level that makes the contract “fair”. Now, the “true Yankee” is getting a far lesser deal … AND he’s supposed to be thankful for it.

    Essentially, we are asking Jeter to act and feel in a manner that none of us would, or probably do.

    The NYY are a special case. Because they can pay Jeter similarly to ARod and STILL sign everyone else they want. They can, and have, done this in the past. No one, perhaps, is more aware of this than Jeter. He is, literally, asking them to show him the same “love” they showed ARod.

    Granted, without emotion, one mistake does not obligate them to make a second mistake. But, this is not an emotionless, rational, situation. This is very much, emotion-filled, personal, issue between two guys that probably don’t care for each other very much, and the organization they work for.

    Comment by CircleChange11 — November 28, 2010 @ 2:44 pm

  160. FWIW, I am much more a fan of ARod than I am Jeter. IMO, some of the media backlash that ARod receives is self-created (such as his comments that they don’t like a biracial player that makes a lot of money … Rod look to your left), and much of it is unrealistic expectations that ARod would single-handedly carry them to a title (He has performed very well and very poorly in “Yankee time”).

    But, any person is capable of looking at the situation a mriad of ways. But, to ignore the ARod deal in light of this event is a mistake.

    Imagine what Joe DiMaggio would have done if he were in Jeter’s situation and instead of ARod, the name was Mickey Mantle. Even Joe, full of grace, was rumored to be petty in regards to Mantle. Same thing with Ruth and Gehrig. These guys are tremendous athletes, but still very human.

    Comment by CircleChange11 — November 28, 2010 @ 2:49 pm

  161. The situation would have been a bit more interesting if Jeter had already made it to 3000 hits, because then he would probably walk away at this point for the ‘injustice’ of the situation he is in.

    He has to play somewhere to make his 3000, and it isn’t going to be in anything else other than in pinstripes as the pictures of 3000 live with him and at the HoF forever.

    Its really interesting as Jeter is too professional to play bad on purpose (so Manny is possibly the worst comp available for Jeter), and wants to prove that he is brilliant so even if he is disgruntled with an ‘unfait’ contract, he will still play his heart out for the Yanks. He is almost a victim of himself

    Comment by Paul — November 29, 2010 @ 4:04 am

  162. Hello People! Just wanted to tell you that I got tickets to the A Perfect Circle concert on May 20th. In this place you can find tickets for other dates too. It’s wonderful their performance on stage, this is my third time and I’m still so excited about listening them live! On this page you can see the section where you’re buying the ticket, so it’s very recommended!

    Comment by Candida Allford — April 28, 2011 @ 2:39 pm

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