i agree that theres probably no one who could replicate bonds #s in SF, probably one of the best 10 year stretches (not counting his last 3 years) of any player ever.
but i have time believing that it was manny acting alone “throwing temper tantrums” and that is wasnt the “evil doings” of boras. Im not sure manny is capable of comprehending the financial decisions that the red sox and he faced this past offseason. I do believe that boras strongly urged him that it was in his (meaning Boras’) best interest if manny’s options werent picked up by the sox so he could sign for more money as a FA.
its been a well known and often reported fact that manny did not like living in boston primarily bc of the constant attention and bombardment by fans he received when out in public. I dont see how anyone can hold his yearly trade demands against him if he and his family were not happy.
on a side note i think the main problem between youk and manny was youk’s perception that manny wasnt trying. youk has to work very hard to squeeze every bit of talent out of his body to be a good player, while manny can coast through and still be a very good player, this is what probably irked youk. Mannys incident with the attendent is completely inexcusable.
oh and didnt bonds get into a fight with kent in the dugout before??
I know you didnt talk about it, but many people, even in the media, claim manny was “tanking” while in boston. I dont watch the red sox, but look at his monthly splits http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?playerId=2974
and you can see his june and july numbers were in fact very very good.
I know steals are overrated, but the thought of Manny trying to swipe 30 a year makes me chuckle.
Also, I think that Manny would have brought more good cheer than Bonds, at least as far as the writers were concerned. Bonds is notoriously reticent and paranoid – anyone recognize the name “Jon Dowd”?
Certainly, though, the gap in productivity between Bonds’s peak years and your garden variety first ballot hall of famer is as big as the gap between that group and ordinary starters.
1. Yea the dugout scene happened with Kent, but a) it ways Jeff Kent, not exactly the kindest man in the world (grabbing the umpire, lying about his motorcycle antics), and b) Bonds didn’t get into anything close an altercation since that incident in 2001. No, Bonds wasn’t a great clubhouse presence, but he for the mostpart stayed out of his teammates’ way. The other players’ complaints were completely based on the media that surrounded him, which couldn’t be prevented.
2. Do you really believe Manny when he said he never liked living in Boston? He thrives on attention. Having lived in both Boston and San Francisco in these players’ prime, Bonds got much more attention, but decided to shy away from it rather than fight it and create a clubhouse distraction.
You can spend time excusing Manny’s individual incidents for however long you want, but you have to look at the endless string of events that just continue to add for him. Bonds’ antics were as bad at worst. Bonds and Manny do have similar track record in many ways, but in the end Bonds has the superior numbers.
“Manny”, I have very little doubt that the real Manny Ramirez is a more intelligent man than you are. That he’s a drooling idiot led this way and that based on Boras’ whims is an indefensible position.
Players hire Scott Boras to get them what they want. He does exactly that better than any agent in the game, which is why players consistently seek him out.
Manny’s defense has been severely underrated since the introduction of the more advanced defensive metrics specifically because of Fenway. I believe his numbers in L.A., which were around league average, are more indicative of his true defensive play.
Still I’m nearly positive that Manny’s “true defensive play” whatever that may be, is still nowhere near the level of the Great Barry Bonds. I mean players can we a couple fluke gold gloves (Derek Jeter) here and there, but 8? Bonds and godfather Mays are the two most complete five tool players in the history of the game. I don’t see how Bonds and Ramirez are ultimately comparable when Ramirez is really only a two tool player.