FanGraphs Baseball

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  1. Yes, Correlation does not imply causation BUT… Koskie, Bay and Morneau are all Canadian and I assume all played hockey (Morneau did for sure). I wonder if there is anything to that.

    Of course, the counter point would be that most MLBers were probably pretty good high school football players.

    Comment by Otter — February 18, 2011 @ 3:10 pm

  2. I’d be curious to see how all players fare after returning from the DL. An overall drop in performance as players readjust seems logical (especially if there’s no rehab assignment). It would be easier to parse out how concussions/brain injuries differ from other types of injuries – if they do at all.

    Having said that, I think it is a pretty cool article and the more attention concussions get, the better for everyone.

    Comment by Resolution — February 18, 2011 @ 3:13 pm

  3. I’d also figure there would be a lull in stats when you come back from taking a 15+ day vacation.

    I know I can’t remember everything about my job when I’m out of office for a week, I wouldn’t be surprised if they suffered a similiar adjustment period.

    Comment by Jim Lahey — February 18, 2011 @ 3:19 pm

  4. Research in concussions show that once someone suffers a concussion it is more likely for that person to suffer a similar brain injury. However, the brain does often heal if given enough time (up to two years in some cases), the affects have been found to disappear.

    The more studies on concussions show that we know very little. Sometimes the worst graded concussions leave little sign of an injury (at least right away, they don’t know if it shows up 20 years from now). And sometimes the lowest grade concussion turns up the worst symptoms.

    Also a study in 2007 found that football leads concussions in high school sports, followed in a distance by soccer and cheerleading (don’t drop the girl!), then in a distance, basketball, baseball , hockey. This I’m recalling from memory, but I do remember cheerleading being surprisingly high.

    Concussions are scary. They should be taken seriously, and while you can go back out and play, they shouldn’t. This is much easier for Morneau to accept than other players who haven’t earned their money yet.

    Comment by JWay — February 18, 2011 @ 3:23 pm

  5. I’m not sure that you can include Greenberg on this list.

    Comment by Der-K — February 18, 2011 @ 3:52 pm

  6. Why not? The only thing he is included for is the list of players whose career was ended by a concussion. I think he fits that profile. He is not affecting any of the other numbers in any way.

    Comment by Matthew G — February 18, 2011 @ 4:48 pm

  7. That’s a reason why the 60 game sample was taken. You would be surprised though. I think a few players (Morneau if I remember correct) actually did very well the first few games back, then did not do well the rest of the season as a whole.

    Comment by Matthew G — February 18, 2011 @ 4:52 pm

  8. I wondered about that too and it does seem logical. However, there is some reason to believe that less is known about how to treat concussions and their effect on players than, say, a twisted ankle. The trainers may not keep out a player with a concussion long enough, but they know how to treat the player with an ankle sprain.

    I would be interested to see an overall effect from a trip to DL study.

    Comment by Matthew G — February 18, 2011 @ 4:55 pm

  9. Interesting to see the difference in handling concussions between the NFL and MLB. In the NFL, most players, even quarterbacks, rarely miss more than a week or two after suffering a concussion, while in MLB, 50-100 days missed seems pretty common.

    Comment by Flharfh — February 18, 2011 @ 4:59 pm

  10. If I am reading that correctly, it seems that players are significantly worse in the 15 days before they have a concussion, as compared to the 60 games before a concussion. Is there something that can explain that – or am I just not reading that table correctly?

    Comment by Ken — February 18, 2011 @ 5:51 pm

  11. Some players dropped out of the sample because there was not 60 days afterwards.

    Also, the way harmonic mean works, some layers may be weighted higher in one sample and not in the other.

    Comment by Jeff Zimmerman — February 18, 2011 @ 6:08 pm

  12. MLB contracts pay for years, NFL contracts pay for days on the field. This is why a “top paid” line player might not clear that (even relative to a working stiff who gets 30+ years on the job) in their 3 year career in the NFL.

    Comment by Barkey Walker — February 18, 2011 @ 8:45 pm

  13. IIRC, Greenberg is still playing indy ball.

    Comment by gnomez — February 18, 2011 @ 9:31 pm

  14. FWIW, I recall several reports that Jim Edmonds stopped taking his post-concussion meds after he was released by the Padres (39 wRC+ over 100 PAs). He was picked up by the Cubs, and lit it up (platoon-powered 134 wRC+ over 300 PAs).

    Comment by astrostl — February 18, 2011 @ 10:30 pm

  15. Which is to say – meds could be a factor.

    Comment by astrostl — February 18, 2011 @ 10:30 pm

  16. Jeff,

    Glad to see you are putting your knowledge to good use! I followed your career closely of course and was sorry to see all the injuries. Your dad would have been very proud of your tenaciousness.

    As for concussions, all i have to say is that baseball is a lot better than hockey. That said, its scary to see what seemed like a little tap from Johnny Mac could put Morneau out for the season.

    Cheers.
    James

    Comment by James Hodgins — February 18, 2011 @ 11:28 pm

  17. Morneau has had multiple other concussions from his hockey days its scary to think he wont come back as strong but even worse to think 1 more and his career is most likely over. Hopefully he is not like Koskie, though it was really nice to hear Koskie was finally over symptoms years after the injury after getting a new kind of treatment. Hopefully he can come back and not be effected but that might be asking to much.

    Comment by zak — February 19, 2011 @ 2:44 pm

  18. Sorry, James but I am a completely different Jeff Zimmerman

    Comment by Jeff Zimmerman — February 19, 2011 @ 2:59 pm

  19. Out of curiosity, what about pitchers who were hit by batted balls during this period? Assuming that at least a couple pitchers were concussed during that period, were they overlooked or excluded as poor comps for Bay and Morneau. Could they tell us anything.

    Comment by Tim — February 19, 2011 @ 8:46 pm

  20. This is a few days old now, and I dont know if you will see it, but there was only one pitcher that we found that had a concussion during this time.

    Comment by Matthew G — February 22, 2011 @ 12:40 pm

  21. Morneau still hasn’t played since his concussion.

    Comment by Steven Ellingson — February 22, 2011 @ 2:43 pm

  22. This is Justin’s second consussion

    Comment by Jeff Zimmerman — February 22, 2011 @ 2:52 pm

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