March 22, 2011 at 2:07 pm
Can anyone explain to me why Brantley was ever considered an impact talent? His glove was always marginal for CF and he never had any power.
Mark Shapiro says:
March 22, 2011 at 2:14 pm
While this article is glowing and very optimistic, every hard-core fan in Cleveland doesn’t have the rosy of an outlook.
We’re realists and understand that as long as Dolan owns the team, we’ll never compete. At this point, we’d just settle for more one dollar hot dog days at the stadium.
Everyone in Cleveland
March 22, 2011 at 2:23 pm
Brantley was always a good on-base guy (near .400 OBP) with good contact skills (more walks than K’s) throughout his minor league career, with good speed, and was in the bigs at the age of 22; always projected to be a pretty prototypical leadoff hitter.
He’s still only 23 years old, and has played less than one full season in the majors
March 22, 2011 at 2:24 pm
This is a tired argument. The Indians nearly made the WS just a few years ago.
March 22, 2011 at 2:25 pm
So the Indians “future” talent gets a rating of 80 and the Marlins got a 75. Hilarious.
March 22, 2011 at 2:26 pm
“Heck, they couldn’t even turn a profit during their ingenious Snow Days event.”
Little unfair there Mr. Swydan, the organization never set out to “make a profit” on the first year of the event, and it is typical in most business ventures of this sort to not make a profit the first year or few years as the cost of creating the event will leave them initially in the red.
An easy slap at the organization, but in reality this is a little lazy on the authors part.
March 22, 2011 at 2:35 pm
carlos santana is really awesome
Jason B says:
March 22, 2011 at 2:43 pm
“While this article is glowing and very optimistic”
Is it? Can an article about something rating in the bottom five of anything (be it baseball teams, dog breeds, or flavors of ice cream) be described as glowing and very optimistic?
I guess it can…if there are only six things being ranked. No shame being ranked in the bottom five of Star Wars movies, for instance.
(As long as you don’t get that “Attack of the Clones” stank on you, it’s HARD to get out!)
Jason B says:
March 22, 2011 at 2:44 pm
Yeah those subjective ratings are so far apart that they’re literally “hilarious”. Like they gave the Indians a 94 and the Marlins a 27.
I don’t think that word means what you think it means…
March 22, 2011 at 2:48 pm
Please don’t speak for me. Some Indians fans aren’t so simple-minded. Sabathia was gone regardless. Keeping Lee and Martinez was going to hinder a rebuild, which was much needed. The team maintained a substantial payroll for their market through the mid 2000′s when they were competing, and the crappy fans only show up if the team’s in first place in mid-August.
March 22, 2011 at 3:30 pm
March 22, 2011 at 3:31 pm
My point is the marlins have way more young talent than the Indians. So 1) The marlins should be ranked ahead of them, and 2) the discrepancy shouldn’t be close
March 22, 2011 at 3:39 pm
Future talent = Minor league talent
The Marlins were ranked like 25th by Hulet; the Indians 13th
Present talent = Santana, Stanton, etc.
March 22, 2011 at 3:44 pm
1 4-WAR player > 2 2-WAR players
March 22, 2011 at 3:44 pm
“It’s a strong group overall, and if you need a reminder of that prowess, you need only to recall the Carlos Santana highjacking.”
It might be worth mentioning that the deals aren’t always this good, and that the Tribe got very little return (so far) for two top shelf aces. No one’s ever as good as they look, or as bad as they seem, but it’s telling that the trading prowess of the team is mentioned as an indication that the FO is very talented. The reality justifies a more measured evaluation, doesn’t it?
March 22, 2011 at 3:51 pm
As a Tribe fan, I’m hoping that a few of the guys on the ML roster turn out to be more than average “solid contributors.” Asdrubal Cabrera has suffered some injuries the past few years but he should hit somewhere around .280-.290 with a little pop and play above average defense. LaPorta was recovering from two surgeries between 09 and 10. Hopefully this is the year that the injuries are behind him and the elite power that he showed all through the minors comes out.
Not much hope for Brantley to be a star due to his total lack of power, but he was driving the ball more toward the end of last season, so hopefully he can at least become a leadoff hitter with doubles power and a high OBP.
March 22, 2011 at 3:55 pm
The little “so far” is a big qualifier. Brantly, Donald, LaPorta, and Carrasco are a big part of the future Indians. If they fail then its safe the call the deals bad, but they are far from being failures at this point.
March 22, 2011 at 4:09 pm
And Knapp is their highest-upside prospect
March 22, 2011 at 4:53 pm
While the returns aren’t good for the CC and Lee trades, you have to look at what other teams got for premium pitching rentals. It’s better (I think), but it’s certainly not ace quality pitcher translated to prospects.
Teams are aware that they only got part of a season for a pitcher, and pay in talent accordingly. You can’t expect the talent coming back for a partial season of a guy to be anywhere near equal the talent going out. Look at CC, Lee, Halladay, Lee, even hitters like Adrian Gonzalez.
March 22, 2011 at 5:24 pm
Any thoughts on the Indians draft vs simply trading for other teams prospects? The Indians starting 9 (well, 10):
C Santana (Dodgers)
1B LaPorta (Brewers)
SS Cabrera (Mariners)
3B Valbuena/Donald? (Mariners/Phillies)
LF Brantley (Brewers)
CF Sizemore (Indians)
RF Choo (Mariners)
DH Hafner (Rangers)
Those are subject to change, but clearly the Indians are good at trading for other teams prospects and drafting very few of their own.
March 22, 2011 at 5:25 pm
OK, make that 9.
March 22, 2011 at 8:51 pm
JR is right. And present talent counts for more than future so you should be happy not upset it counts in present talent.
Paul Swydan says:
March 22, 2011 at 9:58 pm
hans, I really didn’t mean the comment to come across as a slap at the organization, so apologies if that’s how it sounded. I do really think it was a great idea, and I wish more teams were willing to think outside the box during the months that there is no baseball being played. I am aware that many new ventures are not profitable the first time around, but I was excited for Snow Days when I heard about back in the fall, because it was so unique. I was a little shocked that it wasn’t profitable. The link I inserted later in the story says the Indians are still looking forward to holding it in 2011, and I hope that remains the case.
March 22, 2011 at 11:43 pm
My only contention was using the fact that it was in the red in it’s inception year as evidence that things were bad this past season within the Indians organization is misleading, though I do understand why you did it, it’s the kind of thing that helps the writer (choosing a piece that fits the writer’s argument, but ignoring a piece that does not) but in doing so reduces the legitimacy of what is written.
I too like the idea, I’d say the organization is a little behind on the idea of utilizing the stadium/park they rent out for further money making events during times when the team is not playing there, but this was a very intriguing step toward building another avenue of income apart from the baseball team.
March 23, 2011 at 1:39 am
Should read …
CF Sizemore (Expos).
They acquired him in one of the most lopsided deals in recent history.
Sizemore, B.Phillips, C.Lee B. Colon, T. Drew
March 23, 2011 at 1:40 am
Well formatting did not work …. Indians sent Colon & Drew to Montreal for Sizemore, Lee, and Brandon Phillips.
You could make an All-Star team (literally) with former expos.
March 23, 2011 at 11:40 am
Well, Well, Well It as if Brantley is the stiff I always thought he was as far as LaPorta it is funney how so many players that could hit well prior to being traded for by the Indians forget how to hit under the coaching of hitting coach
Derek Shelton it is just amazing A guy with the raw talent that LaPorta has could become such a stiff.
Well now we have to hope for something positive out of Rob Bryson or we gave CC away for nothing.
And if the Indians Front Office believed their own BS when it comes to Brantley they would not of draft Levon Washington Centerfielder and traded for Carrera.
March 23, 2011 at 11:56 am
The indians Draft is way better the last 2 years than we have seen for a very long time.
IMo you will see evidence of this over the next 18 months when you see that at least 1/3 of the 25 man roster if not more will be home grown product from the drafting over the last 2-3 years.
This will be like a step back time to the early 90′s Thome, Belle, Ramirez, Colon, Shuey +.
In the next 18 months IMo we will see the dawn of a top Central contending team in the Indians will they winn it all then probably not but they will once again be fun to watch and on the right track, where they could go out and spent 20 to 25 mill to get the 2 or 3 fill guys to put them over the top.
Jon Nunnally says:
March 23, 2011 at 2:19 pm
(rubbing hand together deviously)
Yes, yes, blame Derek Shelton……
Jay Levin says:
March 29, 2011 at 1:33 pm
Without disagreeing with any of your specifics, the point stands: He was never considered a potential impact player.
Jay Levin says:
March 29, 2011 at 1:36 pm
This is either parody or idiotic. Dolan’s ownership has not held and is not holding the club back. The market is revenue limited, and only one or two owners spend their way into big losses in order to help their club win. One such man owns the Tigers, but profligate spending and a market twice the size of Cleveland nonetheless have yielded about the same results on the field, going back to the Pudge signing.
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