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  1. His swing is a mess. His body is way out front and hips are open and the result is no power at contact. The Jays felt he could get the kinks out quicker in the minors and hopefully bring that good muscle memory back up with him.

    Comment by ayjackson — April 29, 2011 @ 1:38 pm

  2. According to Anthopolous’s press conference this morning, they’re sending him down to make mechanical changes to his swing and think he can make faster progress at that in the minors. I could point you to a summery of the press conference on a blue jays blog but I don’t know if that’s cool to do here.

    Comment by Garold — April 29, 2011 @ 1:38 pm

  3. AAAA player.

    Comment by PJ — April 29, 2011 @ 1:43 pm

  4. As a HUGE Snider fan coming up, I’m beginning to think he, like many others before and after him (see Brandon Wood, Ian Stewart, etc), were simply a product of the video game environment of the PCL. Not to say he can’t be a productive major leaguer but I think a lot of people (me included) overrated him.

    The swing ayjackson is referring to sounds like every swing I’ve seen him take against lefties. Ultimately, he may wind up becoming a platoon player. Probably a very good one, but a platoon player nonetheless.

    Comment by Paul — April 29, 2011 @ 1:48 pm

  5. I heard the podcast and I think it’s a BS reason. If the issue is a mechanical flaw, he should be working with the best hitting coach in the org to get him straightened out. Which would be in the majors, not AAA. Don’t get me wrong – I don’t like Murphy’s “OBP is bad” approach, but logic would suggest that the major league hitting coach would be able to fix the flaw faster then a AAA hitting coach.

    I don’t see how he’ll fix any bad habits in Vegas, a known hitters park and facing inferior pitching. It’s gonna be hard to judge if he’s actually improved, or if he’s just taking advantage of park factors. Chris freakin Woodward posted an 889 OPS in Vegas, so even if Snider posts a 900 OPS, we’ll never know if it’s legit or not.

    My feeling is that Snider deserves 500-600 AB’s regardless of how he’s doing. The Jays need to find out if he’s capable of being a middle of the order hitter or not, and they can’t do that by sending him to AAA.

    Coming into the year the Jays had no clue if he was going to be a productive hitter or not. Because of this decision, the Jays might not know heading into 2012 depending on how long he’s down for.

    Comment by Mark — April 29, 2011 @ 1:56 pm

  6. Great Caeser’s ghost he’s only 23. Can you real hang a “bust” or “AAAA” label on a 23-year-old top-prospect (who raked .400 wOBA at every minor lg level) after 99 MLB PA in 2011? He was hurt last year and never got steady playing time at all. Is it too much to ask to give the kid 500 ABs and see what he can do? Maybe hold off until he is at least, I dunno, 24, before we nail his career coffin shut?

    Comment by Yoyo Dyne — April 29, 2011 @ 2:06 pm

  7. he’s barely even played in the PCL dude.

    Comment by Nick — April 29, 2011 @ 2:10 pm

  8. Paul, I don’t want to take your point out of context too much, but Snider had 274 PAs in AAA before this season. And, yes, his ISO there was .326, but I don’t believe that merits comparison on the same level as players who had great production in the PCL only to fail to have a similar impact at the Major League level.

    Comment by funkblast — April 29, 2011 @ 2:13 pm

  9. So now freaking Juan Rivera is the left fielder? One day before the end of spring training the Jays announce all of a sudden that Bautista is no longer the third baseman even though that was the stated plan and he played every spring game at 3B. Supposedly this seat-of-thepants move was because they saw Rivera in the OF and he looked just so freaking horrible they thought they had no choice but to DH him. Now another panic move and guess what, slow-poke JR with the gleaming .300 wOBA is the new outfielder? And why? So they can protect 32-year-old Patterson of the .290 career OBA who turns to face the wall and then watches the fly ball land on the warning track? The whole thing is retarded.

    Well, at least JoJo Reyes isn’t getting another start. What?

    Comment by Youppi — April 29, 2011 @ 2:20 pm

  10. AA poster.

    Comment by Jason — April 29, 2011 @ 2:21 pm

  11. The Jays are either overreacting to a small sample size slump or they are disciplining him.

    The “swing changes” excuse seems like a load of BS to me, especially since he had the same issues last season at the same point.

    Comment by Fullmer Fan — April 29, 2011 @ 2:28 pm

  12. By the beard of Zeus!!

    Comment by Nox — April 29, 2011 @ 2:39 pm

  13. Great Odin’s Raven!!!

    Comment by Bron — April 29, 2011 @ 2:40 pm

  14. Snider’s AAA experience came mostly at Vegas. Granted, he didn’t accumulate a ton of PAs there, but that’s where he really flashed the prodigious power a lot of people point to as his calling card (14 HR in 204 PAs). It’s also this experience that a lot of folks draw from when stating things like, “he’s got nothing left to prove at AAA” (despite the sound argument that he doesn’t even have a lot of experience at that level — 274 PAs in total)

    Like I said, I’m a huge fan. I’m rooting for the kid. I realize he’s only 23 and he doesn’t have a lot of experience at AAA. My point is that the large majority of his experience at AAA (and success in terms of plus-power) comes from an offensive environment that quite frankly, is a joke. It’s not his fault, but that’s what it is. That’s where the comparison to Wood/Stewart (or even Sean Rodriguez who played in three video game leagues — PCL, CALL, and TL) comes into play. Not so much as a comparison of their individual talent levels, but the overrating of their power based on the league(s) they played in.

    Do I think he’ll be a productive major leaguer? Sure. I’m not writing him off as a bust. I just think the initial expectations of him (including my own), at least from a power standpoint, were a little too lofty. He’s talented, for sure, but he can’t hit lefties and I just don’t think he’s got this ridiculous power that a lot of us thought he had.

    I’ll be happy with a guy who can post a .330 OBP with 20 HRs on the right side of a platoon. But there was a time when a lot of people thought he was going to be a superstar and I’m not sure he ever will be. Esp. when you factor in his glove.

    Comment by Paul — April 29, 2011 @ 2:41 pm

  15. Ya he barely played in the PCL and killed Eastern, Florida, and Midwest league pitching.
    If anything he proved he can overcome a bad hitting environment.

    Comment by Jeff — April 29, 2011 @ 2:42 pm

  16. Disciplining him for what? Nobody has said a word about any problems. To the contrary, Anthopoulos goes on and on about how great his work ethic is, his great attitude, how hard it is demote someone like that. So what would the punishment be for (other than maybe that moustache he grew in Florida)?
    The swing changes theory sounds like BS to me too.
    So I vote for overacting and general running around with their heads cut off for pretty much all of April (see also demoting Litsch, signing Nix, starting Reyes, Woodward re-appears like a ghost from MacBeth for two days, etc., etc.)

    Comment by Youppi — April 29, 2011 @ 2:45 pm

  17. I was actually thinking more along the lines of rookie ball poster.

    Comment by Josh Shepardson — April 29, 2011 @ 2:51 pm

  18. Maybe he means he suspects the poster was Alex Anthopoulos.

    Comment by jorge — April 29, 2011 @ 2:55 pm

  19. Hey, AY I’m a big fan of your work with the Group of Seven. Didn’t know you were a sabr guy though…

    Comment by Big Jgke — April 29, 2011 @ 2:56 pm

  20. Owls of Minerva!!!

    Comment by Big Jgke — April 29, 2011 @ 2:58 pm

  21. It’s a lot easier to try something new against subpar competition. Whenever you make a change, you generally get worse before you get better. That’s a problem when you’re already struggling and playing against the Yankees.

    Comment by Scott — April 29, 2011 @ 3:00 pm

  22. His range has actually been better than expected in LF. His glove doesn’t bother me in the least.

    Comment by Bron — April 29, 2011 @ 3:02 pm

  23. I find the mixing together of Greek, Roman and Norse inexplicably repulsive.

    Comment by jorge — April 29, 2011 @ 3:04 pm

  24. Blasted Bhagavad Gita!

    Comment by raj — April 29, 2011 @ 3:07 pm

  25. Hot pot of coffee!

    Comment by Don Dolmes — April 29, 2011 @ 3:11 pm

  26. Rivera has never been a pretty looking fielder, but is actually a decent defensive player. A lot of value from his strong arm, but he gets to and catches balls as well.

    Comment by AA — April 29, 2011 @ 3:11 pm

  27. By the sandy sarcaphogus of great lord Thoth may vipers strike down his enemies!

    Comment by fairoe — April 29, 2011 @ 3:13 pm

  28. I would guess they would move Patterson to left, put Davis in center, and leave Rivera as the DH.

    Comment by Ed — April 29, 2011 @ 3:18 pm

  29. Art, quantitative analysis, athletics – I`m a renaissance man.

    Comment by ayjackson — April 29, 2011 @ 3:24 pm

  30. By the power of Grayskull !

    Comment by He-Man — April 29, 2011 @ 3:38 pm

  31. His IFFB% is 20% this year. That’s why his babip is so low. It isn’t bad luck so much as he’s become a pop-up machine. Fewer line-drives and more pop-ups, and even if the k rate has been below 30% for last 2 eyars, it isn’t low.

    Still a small sample size and perhaps flukey, but it’s not like he’s singing and getting robbed or bloppers and bleeders are finding holes. He’s been bad.

    I worried too that small AAA sample was being overemphasised, although he was good in his small cup of coffee too. As pointed out above, his AA line was good but not great, albeit he was very young, and he K’d a ton. I wasn’t as high as some were on him on minorleagueball and elsewhere, but by this year I was ready to see him raise my expectations. Because he had indeed seeed to improve his approach a tad last year.

    Perhaps the intercostal starin was still bothering him a bit coming out of spring training and it threw him out of whack.

    Comment by wobatus — April 29, 2011 @ 3:52 pm

  32. Stinging. Not singing. Bloopers, not bloppers. Ugh.

    Comment by wobatus — April 29, 2011 @ 3:53 pm

  33. By the Hammer of Grabthar!

    Comment by SC2GG — April 29, 2011 @ 4:02 pm

  34. By the Hammer of Grabthar, if you’re going to correct some typos, at least correct them all!

    Technically, the first guy is correct, mind you – Travis Snider is not singing.

    Comment by SC2GG — April 29, 2011 @ 4:06 pm

  35. Should I just get this out of the way? #8org

    p.s. Huge UFC card this weekend, big fight for GSP in front of 55K+ at Rogers Centre in TO!

    Comment by tdotsports1 — April 29, 2011 @ 4:36 pm

  36. For sucking.

    Comment by Ty Webb — April 29, 2011 @ 5:43 pm

  37. I LOVE LAMP!

    Comment by OTerry — April 29, 2011 @ 5:45 pm

  38. This strangely reminded me of an episode of the Trailer Park Boys.

    Comment by Sonny — April 29, 2011 @ 7:33 pm

  39. AA’s stated offseason goals, his perception of where the team stands and the reality of the Blue Jays situation are three totally different things. As the author stated, this is SUPPOSED to a rebuilding year. Here the question: Does AA think the Jays can win now? This is where the perception vs. reality dynamic comes into play. With a month complete the Jays are 3.5 games out of first place. They have a good offense, led by a guy who is arguably the premier offensive player in the AL, that has the firepower to hang with NYY and Boston. They have emerging ace and a few decent arms in the bullpen. The yanks have serious pitching issues with Hughes’ dead arm, a bunch of retreads at the bottom of the rotation, Soriano morphing into Mel Rojas 2.0 and heck even Mariano is gonna get old one of these days. Same for Boston. Buchholz has been a disaster. Lackey has become a flyball machine. Dice-K is….well Dice-K. The ballyhooed bullpen has been spotty. Did I mention Carl Crawford?…. So maybe, just maybe, AA is thinking this could be the year that the AL East big dogs are more vulnerable than usual and he decided to change his rebuilding plans on the fly and take a shot. If that’s the case, then sending down a struggling Snider might make a little sense because if rebuilding was still Plan A then he would still be up here.

    Comment by jpg — April 29, 2011 @ 8:51 pm

  40. I don’t know if I buy that the MLB hitting coach is really the best. Seems like you’d put the best teachers down were they can get to guys while they still learn things. I know for a fact that some clubs do this. Not necessarily that the best guy is in AAA, just that the best teacher’s are likely to be lower.

    Comment by Deadpool — April 29, 2011 @ 9:37 pm

  41. In situations like this, I think those viewing his swing mechanics deserve the benefit of the doubt rather than assuming that they’re over-reacting about a small sample issue.

    At 23, they probably think it’s something he can fix and return to MLB.

    At AAA, he can work on it in a lower pressure situation. At the MLB level, currently, he’s just trying to survive at the plate. That’s not a good environment to try and work on something, just like a young pitcher doesn’t work on a new pitch while trying to get ML hitters out.

    Comment by CircleChange11 — April 29, 2011 @ 10:31 pm

  42. I was surprised by how little time Snider actually spent at AAA when I was looking at his stats earlier today. After AA’s pressed today, I’m even coming around to the idea that the move was defensible, even if I don’t agree with it entirely.

    I definitely, however, don’t agree with the Brandon Wood comparison. Wood’s MILB numbers were pretty dramatically skewed by the one MASSIVE A+ season, and he didn’t hit AAA until his, what, age 23 season?

    There just seems to be a lot of overreacting to 100 PAs all around.

    Comment by Justin — April 29, 2011 @ 11:20 pm

  43. Stomp on frogs and shove a crowbar up my nose!

    Comment by Greg W — April 29, 2011 @ 11:26 pm

  44. Travis has a hole that the opposition is exploiting. He has lost his ability to hit the curve ball with power, even from righties after being over matched by lefties so often. Murph can’t help him with that with all the demands at the major league level. A one on one hitting coach in AAA can help him regain his stroke against righties then see if he will ever hit the curve ball from lefties. The PCL may be the wrong place for this with so few good curve ball pitchers in the opposition but at least there is less pressure to try different things down there.

    Comment by Johnniec — April 30, 2011 @ 1:12 am

  45. If it is a mechanical issue, and not a blind hope to win now, then he will be brought back when he is consistently swinging the bat the way management and coaches like. Then he can work on issues with the breaking ball. I like that the Jays emphasize winning at the major league level. I like that they are not giving away assets just because they are over thirty years old. I like that they are rewarding Cooper with a major league job for being a good soldier and keeping Snider and Lawrie down until they fix their problems. Seems like the proper way to run an organization.

    Comment by Matt M — April 30, 2011 @ 9:51 am

  46. I was the first guy. They were my typos. And if I am going to correct all of them I’ll be here all day. Please excuse my laziness. And my ancient laptop. I’m actually scrivening this reply with a hammer and chisel.

    Comment by Wobatus — April 30, 2011 @ 12:21 pm

  47. AA said that although this seasons’s april has better number than last year’s april, his swing has mechanical issues that were not present last year. They feel he could make adjustments to his swing but it would take longer time and he would underachieve compared to his true potential. He’s not a 7th, 8th, or 9th guy, but a middle of the order. Sending him down to fix a mechanical issue in the swing will allow him to do it under less pressure, as no need to win in AAA. He’ll be back up in a month or 2 max I feel….he’s always hit down there. His approach is fine AA said, but the swing is the only problem.

    Comment by Lunchbox — April 30, 2011 @ 12:55 pm

  48. Why does everyone around here dismiss the very possibility of AAAA players? I don’t know that Snider is a good example (and we certainly don’t have enough info yet to know anyway), but there are lots of guys who dominate AAAA and are awful in the majors over large sample sizes: Dan Johnson, Andy Laroche, Steve Pearce.

    I don’t get the guttural reaction against the idea that a guy (again, not Snider) could be too good for AAA and not good enough for the majors.

    Comment by DL80 — April 30, 2011 @ 2:26 pm

  49. Fair points, Klaassen. Here are our thoughts (along with some others to do with the Blue Jays):

    Comment by patmccaw — April 30, 2011 @ 6:13 pm

  50. THIS is Ceti Alpha 5!!!!!

    Comment by MBD — April 30, 2011 @ 9:32 pm

  51. uncle jedidiah’s corn cob pipe!

    Comment by plain_g — April 30, 2011 @ 9:42 pm

  52. I think Travis Snider is at a critical point in his career, just as Roy Halladay was when he was sent down to the minors over a decade ago to alter the mechanics on his delivery. I liked it the one game when he had the bat resting on his shoulder to help quiet things down before he loaded for his swing, but he only used it for two at bats before switching back to his lumberjack style. He has tremendous natural power and does not need to hack away the way he has been, as it is slowing down the trajectory of his swing and inhibiting natural power. In New Hampshire, I saw him hit when he was relaxed, and he drilled a pitch from current Yankee lefty Logan on a line off the bricks at the 385 mark with a flick of his wrists. He will come back ready to hit with this move IMO.

    Comment by jeff — May 1, 2011 @ 8:14 am

  53. LOL, stinking out the joint is now seen as being unlucky. IMO you can’t discount the dropped LD% and increase IFFB% as being irrelevant.

    How long should the Jays wait for this guy to turn it around? He hasn’t earned a higher sample size. I don’t see going to the minors and working on things there as being a bad thing for a young player, even if only as a swift kick in the butt. Turn it around and he’ll be back up.

    Comment by swyck — May 1, 2011 @ 9:08 am

  54. 4/4 + 1BB is a nice start..

    Comment by everdiso — May 1, 2011 @ 12:05 pm

  55. Worked for Scherzer and Porcello last year.

    Comment by The Nicker — May 1, 2011 @ 1:11 pm

  56. Don’t look at the numbers here, it’s purely mechanical. That’s the problem with a lot of baseball people, they don’t really watch the guy play, and when something like this happens to a prospect of Snider’s pedigree, they quickly refer to numbers to see exactly how bad things were going.

    The numbers are meaningless.

    His swing was a mess so far. He brought his legs closer together, stood up more, and as a result is lunging at everything, his head level is dropping and he’s for some reason, swinging at everything with one hand. His follow though looks horrible, and his swing has lengthened up far too much. He was hitting a bit, but the average was going to be consistently mediocre.

    So instead of frustrating him with being consistently terrible at the MLB level, they instead give him more AB’s and less stress in AAA.

    Comment by Lucas K. — May 1, 2011 @ 7:01 pm

  57. Irrelevant post is irrelevant.

    Comment by JJHH — May 1, 2011 @ 7:39 pm

  58. Even if nothing was wrong mechanically, which it sounds like there is, I still think the move could be defended. Allow a young kid to build back up his confidence, before bring him back might not be such a bad idea as most on here seem to think. Its possible he could work through it, but I would hate to see a young kid with promise like he has have his confidence buried early on.

    Comment by Scott — May 1, 2011 @ 7:49 pm

  59. agree opening up way to early cant get legs to work for him, and obviously a bad combination especially for breaking balls

    Comment by scraps — May 2, 2011 @ 12:28 am

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