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  1. Great, thanks. On a related note – are there plans for K/PA and BB/PA to be added for pitchers, in addition to the per 9 rates?

    Comment by Telo — July 11, 2011 @ 1:12 pm

  2. Yep, that’s next.

    Comment by David Appelman — July 11, 2011 @ 1:13 pm

  3. Excellent! It may not have been a big change numerically, but the logical consistency is important.

    Comment by RMR — July 11, 2011 @ 1:13 pm

  4. All hail the Dark Overlord!

    Comment by Telo — July 11, 2011 @ 1:15 pm

  5. You’re the man, David Appelman.

    Comment by PWH — July 11, 2011 @ 1:15 pm

  6. Yesssssssssssssssssss

    Comment by PWH — July 11, 2011 @ 1:16 pm

  7. Huzzah!

    Comment by Kirkwood — July 11, 2011 @ 1:19 pm

  8. dumb question… what’s the difference between At bats and plate appearances?

    Comment by Kyle — July 11, 2011 @ 1:25 pm

  9. PA = AB + BB + HBP + sacrifices

    Comment by anon — July 11, 2011 @ 1:29 pm

  10. BB’s, HBP etc don’t count as an AB but they do count as a PA.

    Comment by balagast — July 11, 2011 @ 1:29 pm

  11. You have come to the right place to learn about baseball, but for the basics, these links will help:

    Comment by Telo — July 11, 2011 @ 1:29 pm

  12. Awesome

    Comment by Polyrhythm07 — July 11, 2011 @ 1:31 pm

  13. I based all of my fantasy lineups on the previous values.

    Comment by Drew — July 11, 2011 @ 1:35 pm

  14. It really won’t make much of a difference.

    Comment by David Appelman — July 11, 2011 @ 1:38 pm

  15. Great, thanks!

    Comment by Jack — July 11, 2011 @ 1:38 pm

  16. Great!

    Completely unrelated, but could you add something like a League Average ‘player page’? Meaning that it would have the same layout as a player page, but all the entries would be for league average in the applicable stat columns. That’s the easiest way I can think of to add a tool to help provide context for stats that are not adjusted for league average and to evaluate player splits and against league average splits.

    Comment by Phils Goodman — July 11, 2011 @ 1:48 pm

  17. Adapt.

    Comment by The Typical Idiot Fan — July 11, 2011 @ 1:50 pm

  18. Thanks for making Adam Dunn slightly less bad.

    Comment by MikeS — July 11, 2011 @ 1:52 pm

  19. Wow, that article on plate appearances is a cluster-you-know-what. A plate appearance is exactly what it sounds like. Perhaps they could call it a CPA (completed plate appearance); takes care of what should be the only source of confusion. It’s at bats that is needlessly complex a stat… but I’ll let Joe Posnanski finish the thought:

    “Subtract the walks. No, seriously, just subtract those. We don’t care about those.

    “Now, subtract the hit-by-pitches. Get rid of them.

    “Now, subtract the times that the player hit a fly ball that allowed a runner to tag up and score from third base.

    “Now, subtract the times the batter bunted a runner from first to second base, or second to third, or third to home but still made an out. Do not subtract the plate appearance if the batter successfully made it to first base. Do not subtract it if he hit a hard smash that accomplished PRECISELY THE SAME THING as a bunt. Do not subtract it if he hit a check-swing dribbler that was KIND OF like a bunt but did not seem from the press box to be a purposeful bunt.

    “Remember to include the times he reached base but only because of a defensive blunder.

    “OK, you have that number? We call those ‘at-bats.'”

    Comment by Person — July 11, 2011 @ 1:58 pm


    Comment by Mike — July 11, 2011 @ 1:59 pm

  21. Interesting, though it’d probably more useful to expand the current league average buttons to all other tabs, not just plate discipline etc.

    Comment by Telo — July 11, 2011 @ 2:00 pm

  22. I’m pretty sure Drew was making a joke, but considering the overall history of comments on Fangraphs, I can understand why it might be a policy to never assume humor / sarcasm in anything.

    Comment by joser — July 11, 2011 @ 2:47 pm

  23. I meant to hit thumbs up but hit thumbs down by mistake. I’d like the record to show that I liked MikeS’ comment.

    Comment by Trotter76 — July 11, 2011 @ 2:49 pm

  24. I guess this would make a great example of creeping complexity. It totally made sense to leave BBs out (don’t want to punish a player’s batting average because he’s good at taking walks), and then they just kept piling on “refinements” until we got to the current definition.

    Comment by joser — July 11, 2011 @ 2:49 pm

  25. David honey I am very proud of you today.

    Comment by Mom — July 11, 2011 @ 2:55 pm

  26. It’s an interesting idea (I’d enjoy looking at that page) but it has a problem: the average changes every year, and you want to be able to look at all (or any one) of them. So we’d end up with a huge family of players named “Player” all sharing the middle name “Average” but each with a different year as a first name.

    Not to mention the next step would be to add average teams to the team pages (probably three: NL, AL, and MLB… again, for each year).

    Comment by joser — July 11, 2011 @ 2:56 pm

  27. Ah, fantastic. I’ve been waiting for this for a while, and I’m really happy to finally see its implementation. Looking forward to seeing K/PA and BB/PA numbers for pitchers, too. Awesome stuff.

    Comment by Satchel Price — July 11, 2011 @ 3:06 pm

  28. How about K/(AB+BB+SF-IBB) ?

    I’m joking, but it’s hard to strike out on a HBP or an IBB.

    Comment by Yirmiyahu — July 11, 2011 @ 3:12 pm

  29. and catcher interference disappears into the ether, never to be included anywhere.

    Comment by Yirmiyahu — July 11, 2011 @ 3:14 pm

  30. I saw Howard swing at a pitch that bounced and then hit him in the leg, but I don’t remember if it was strike 3.

    Comment by don — July 11, 2011 @ 3:40 pm

  31. You can get BB/PA and K/PA for this year and the last couple years at

    Comment by theeiffeltower — July 11, 2011 @ 4:16 pm

  32. Now, if only we could get the same thing done to FIP.

    Comment by RC — July 11, 2011 @ 4:39 pm

  33. The next order of business should be taking out the intentional walks from stats like BB%, or BB/K. Call them NBB, for non-intentional walks. I can’t think of any sort of evaluation or analysis that wouldn’t be made easier for the user. Just because baseball made a mistake in not having NBB as an official stat doesn’t mean that Fangraphs has to keep perpetuating that.

    Comment by dcs — July 11, 2011 @ 4:57 pm

  34. Bah, humbug.

    K/AB is a more useful indicator of trouble ahead for minor league hitters than K/PA.

    Comment by Vlad — July 11, 2011 @ 5:22 pm

  35. Any thoughts on using K% or BB% instead of K/9 or BB/9 for pitchers?

    I know per 9 is familiar to folks but BABIP fluctuations can make comparisons at times tricky when looking at year to year increases or decreases (or comparing players to each other)

    Comment by hank — July 11, 2011 @ 5:51 pm

  36. Crap – how did I miss the first comment! Nevermind….

    Comment by hank — July 11, 2011 @ 5:52 pm

  37. You’re fired.

    Comment by Telo — July 11, 2011 @ 6:02 pm

  38. How is K/AB more indicative of future success for a minor leaguer than K/PA? Theoretically I get why you might want to exclude BBs but practically you want to know how many times player X K’s per time he walks up to the plate. Also, if a player increases his BB’s from one year to the next (w/K’s constant) doesn’t his K/AB automatically increase as well(where as his K/PA doesn’t)?

    Comment by John — July 11, 2011 @ 8:13 pm

  39. Sweet, now Barry Bonds’ 2004 season has gone from simply obscene to absolutely retarded. 37.6% BB, 6.6% K, as opposed to a mark previously around 11% K.

    Comment by Feeding the Abscess — July 11, 2011 @ 9:20 pm

  40. nope. you just have average player and update with each year like a real player page. it would track year to year changes just like any players stats year to year… treat it like a real player.

    Comment by phoenix2042 — July 11, 2011 @ 10:41 pm

  41. Many players play for more then one year, so the page can take that into account. To keep it from getting huge, you could do it by decade.

    Comment by Barkey Walker — July 11, 2011 @ 10:48 pm

  42. How about a statistic for 3-pitch walks allowed? (although that may only apply to the Mariners)

    Comment by Matty Brown — July 12, 2011 @ 4:05 am

  43. Thanks, David! I needed all the help I could get this year

    Comment by Adam Dunn — July 13, 2011 @ 9:05 pm

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