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  1. Re: Jeltz play. They threw it to first then Thompson got in a run down.

    Comment by James — July 21, 2011 @ 5:11 pm

  2. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Mentioning Steve Jeltz is a guaranteed way to get me to comment. Which I know is your primary concern.

    Kind of funny because he’s been “in the news” recently as another Philly (shortstop) to have homered from both sides of the plate, as Jimmy Rollins did recently. We need to bring back Steve Jeltz’s hair.

    Comment by BDF — July 21, 2011 @ 5:13 pm

  3. I felt sure that at least one of these plays would be as follows: top of the ninth/tenth/eleventh/etc., runners on first and third, one out, infielder throws to first, baserunner originally on first avoids tag in rundown for long enough for runner on third to score. #2 was sort of close to that, but not quite what I imagined.

    It’s a shame that there’s never been such thing as a walk-off double play.I suppose it’s theoretically possible, but it’s hard to imagine circumstances in which a team would be stupid or confused enough to let it happen.

    Comment by AustinRHL — July 21, 2011 @ 5:56 pm

  4. For the defense, the double play is always good. I suspect this is just levels of goodness.

    Comment by Hurtlocker — July 21, 2011 @ 6:07 pm

  5. This is hard to read. Needs major editing; there are typos everywhere.

    Comment by FYFs LOBs — July 21, 2011 @ 6:22 pm

  6. Sure, runners on first and second, no out, ground ball to 1B, who steps on first for the first out. 2nd base runner advances to third, first base runner is now in a run down. Runner at 3rd takes off for home, but with plenty of time for fielder in run down to make the tag, then fire home.

    Either the fielder misfires, or catcher drops the ball, etc., and the runner scores the walk-off run. There you go, walk-off double play.

    Comment by Temo — July 21, 2011 @ 7:17 pm

  7. i like the concept of the article, but seems weird to throw out double plays the runner couldn’t control (ie. line drives leading to double plays) but counting kooky plays involving botched fielding.

    that said, #1 was pretty funny.

    Comment by J Rich — July 21, 2011 @ 7:26 pm

  8. I was hoping there might have been a time when someone lost track of the outs, allowing the winning run to score on a forced GDP. The closest to this that I can remember was Jimmy Rollins (I think it was him) throwing to first for the 2nd out of the bottom of the 9th inning and allowing the runner at third to score the winning run.

    Comment by Max — July 21, 2011 @ 7:55 pm

  9. “Joe Torre versus Tommy Lasorda in a battle between two of the (eventually) most overrated managers of our time” – Wait, you can’t just throw this out there without backing it up, can you? Well, you can, but should you?

    Comment by Person — July 21, 2011 @ 9:56 pm

  10. Tony Larussa is a genius makes this article. Well done.

    Comment by TK — July 22, 2011 @ 12:09 am

  11. I agree, that was shady. I stuck around through the typos and poorly detailed stories to see if he was going to justify that.

    Comment by Sitting Curveball — July 22, 2011 @ 1:18 am

  12. with one out wouldn’t he just throw to 3rd for the lead runner though.

    Comment by Jacob — July 22, 2011 @ 8:33 am

  13. none out *

    Comment by Jacob — July 22, 2011 @ 8:33 am

  14. Jeltzie,we hardly knew ye…he did hit two (of his five career) home runs in this game:http://bit.ly/qMAsJP , one of the most entertaining games I’ve ever seen. Phillies spotted the Pirates 10 runs in the top of the first, then came back to win 15-11. Jeltz didn’t even start the game — perhaps his Jheri-Kurl hadn’t set up in time for the first pitch?

    Comment by Chris R — July 22, 2011 @ 8:35 am

  15. bigger question about #1, #2 – is there any chance the play by play logs are inaccurate. Is there any chance there was a rundown or something else the batter couldn’t control.

    #3 highlights a flaw in the methodology. it would be more accurate for the weather to be the reason for the big upshift

    Comment by Jacob — July 22, 2011 @ 8:38 am

  16. Hey, did you know that Steve Jeltz “holds the records for most games played, at bats, runs, hits, doubles, triples, runs batted in, walks and strikeouts among players born in France” according to Wikipedia?

    I actually read this on FranceGraphs the other day.

    Comment by The Only Nolan — July 22, 2011 @ 9:26 am

  17. I’m totally comfortable having J-Roll and Jeltz in the same paragraph…

    Comment by futurecfo — July 22, 2011 @ 9:50 am

  18. As an Astros fan, the best double play I have seen was in the 9th inning of a NLCS game vs. the Cardinals. I think this is the WPA:
    http://www.fangraphs.com/wins.aspx?date=2005-10-16&team=Astros&dh=0&season=2005

    The tying run would have scored if the GIDP hadn’t ended the game. Bruntlett fielded the ball between 2d and 1st, and it barely touched his glove as has he threw to Everett covering 2d base who then made a lightning fast throw to 1st.

    Comment by CJ — July 22, 2011 @ 10:00 am

  19. My god you people need an editor.

    Comment by RC — July 22, 2011 @ 10:29 am

  20. Here’s a way to get a true walk-off GIDP.

    Tie game, bottom 9, runners on 1st and 2nd, none out. Defense turns a normal grounder into a 6-4-3 double play, but the speedy runner on 2nd manages to score during the play.

    Comment by Anon — July 22, 2011 @ 11:50 am

  21. maybe if the catcher and pitcher both go to 1B (incorrectly, someone should cover home). sort of like how you occasional steal 2 bases on the same play due to a shift for a power hitter.

    Comment by jacob — July 22, 2011 @ 1:26 pm

  22. No, that’s wrong. You can’t give Johnson credit for the game getting called. The game was getting called then regardless of what happened.

    You need to recalibrate the WPA for the whole game assuming the game was going to end after 5 innings.

    Comment by Llewdor — July 22, 2011 @ 1:35 pm

  23. As a Twins fan, the best DP is a 3-2-3 but should be credited to 1 because it undoubtedly resulted from the pitcher pitching to the scoreboard.

    Comment by Barkey Walker — July 22, 2011 @ 4:27 pm

  24. If you want to do it right, you can’t use the lookup table WPA numbers because they assume a 9 inning game.

    Well, you can use the table’s numbers, but you have to subtract 5 from the inning and add on something to deal with the unneeded 1/2 inning.

    Comment by Barkey Walker — July 22, 2011 @ 4:29 pm

  25. I think they should do it how they would for the first 5 innings of the normal game, then give the weather the extra WPA.

    Comment by sd — July 22, 2011 @ 4:51 pm

  26. I think this is the most likely and straightforward way to have a walk-off double-play:

    Bottom 9, runners on first and third, none out. Hard ground shot to the third baseman, who checks the runner, then throws to second. Second baseman picks up that the runner hasn’t gone yet, and goes to first to complete the double-play. The runner on third sees this and makes a late break for home. The first baseman’s throw is just a little bit off-line, and… it’s a walk-off!

    So simple I can’t believe it’s never happened.

    Comment by Jon — July 22, 2011 @ 5:31 pm

  27. uh nope

    Comment by Alan — July 22, 2011 @ 5:45 pm

  28. But if he strikes out and they don’t score any runs that inning they don’t win the game. There was definitely a lot of value in grounding into a double play, given that the game was about to be called.

    Comment by Alan — July 22, 2011 @ 5:49 pm

  29. Best double play? 9u. 5-man infield, men on 1st and 2nd, liner to the right fielder who’s in the infield near second, who tags the bag.

    Comment by jorgath — July 23, 2011 @ 9:47 am

  30. Wait, I think not — they were already up when he grounded into the DP.

    For a moment I thought that the DP made it an offical game by finishing the fifth inning, which would’ve been a very valuable DP indeed. But it looks like that’s not how the rules worked; the fifth inning didn’t finish (only two outs after the DP), but the game was official anyway because the home team was winning. Oh well.

    Comment by matt w — July 26, 2011 @ 8:10 am

  31. Aargh, that was the game where Jim Rooker had to walk home afterwards. From Philly to Pittsburgh.

    Comment by matt w — July 26, 2011 @ 8:13 am

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