You have to think that at some point, all the other GMs in the league will just band together and not trade with AA anymore because no matter how the deal seems to be beneficial to them, they’ll have this sneaking suspicion they’re going to get ripped off somehow.
So that’s Bautista, Escobar, and now Rasmus that were either acquired from the scrap heap, or taken off the hands of teams that disliked them for non-performance reasons? Toronto is the Home of Misfit Players, god bless ’em
As a Red Sox fan — and I’ll go out on a limb and say I speak for Yankees and Rays fans as well – could the rest of MLB general managers please PUT THEIR F**I*ING PHONES DOWN when Anthopolous calls? Thanks.
… Or just like what happened with Beane and Kenny Williams, their trade quality will “regress”. Both Beane and Williams ripped off a lot of teams to assemble a very good young starting rotation and potent offense.
The problem with AA and the Blue Jays is the number of trades/acquisitions/prospects like this that it is going to take to make the playoffs out of the East.
IMO, AA isn’t long for Toronto. I think he’ll want to move to an organization where such good trades actually make a difference in the standings.
Comment by CircleChange11 — July 27, 2011 @ 1:27 pm
Comment by KissMyPurpleButt — July 27, 2011 @ 1:28 pm
Ricciardi was the one that acquired Bautista. But, AA did sign that ridiculous contract with Bautista, which might’ve been the smarter move of the two.
Is it time to start thinking of AA’s recent run as an all-time great among GMs? Dumping Wells, signing Bautista, and snagging Escobar and Rasmus on the cheap – how many GMs can claim such a string of unambiguous victories in such a short span?
He’s in his dream job right now. He’s Canadian (and thus a Jays fan growing up), came up through the system with the Jays (started in a mail room at the training complex in Florida), and has basically already gotten where he wants to go.
He’ll get a big raise, and continue to do the work that got him here. He won’t always have these ridiculous results (like Beane), but if you listen to him talk a lot, he’s extremely intelligent, well spoken and humble at the same time, and he likes to talk about how much he loves his job.
I can’t picture him moving someplace else, knowing what I know about him.
Drabek could figure things out. Litsch can be a 5th starter, Cecil is pitching much better of late and can be a good 3/4. I think they’re one more 2/3rd starter away from having a pretty good rotation.
Friedman has topped it by a loooong stretch, although AA is well on his way. Kazmir for Sean Rod & $$$ & non-negative WAR, Aubrey Huff for Ben Zobrist, Delmon Young for Garza/Bartlett, Joey Gathright for JP Howell, signed Carlos Pena, Evan to his great team deal, Shields to his great team deal. Drafted Evan, Price, Desmond Jennings etc. Rarely has he also been given the opportunity to add much payroll in his trades..
Okay, so they’ll continue to “compete” with the Rays. Since the Rays turned it around in 2008, the Blue jays have finished behind them. I was not intentionally trying to insult the Blue jays, but rather illustrate the difficulty of the AL East. In 2009, Toronto won 86 games … and finished in 4th place.
Like the Twins? PLEASE?
F*** the Twins. I was thinking of an organization like Atlanta, or perhaps even LAA or NYM.
He’s in his dream job right now.
That’s cool. I just note the trend for mega-talented, competitive people to want to be in situations where their influence can be appreciated by resulting in ultimate success.
I caution against expecting AA to continue to make these high quality moves (just due to the nature of the job and supply-demand), but he is doing an absolutely great job.
Comment by CircleChange11 — July 27, 2011 @ 1:55 pm
The Jays have no use for Teahen, nor should any major league team trying to do more than fill out 25 roster spots with vaguely recognizable names. I hope/guess they just cut him and eat the money. Teahen is fine except that he can’t hit, isn’t good defensively, and doesn’t run the bases well. So yeah, no need to hold onto the roster spot for him next year at all.
Yay Rasmus! If he ends up just sticking at his level this year, it’s a major upgrade for the Jays. And if he gets back to 2010 performances, watch out!
I very doubt that the Reds won’t either pick up Phillips option or bring him back. Fielder would be an intriguing pick up.
That’s a line-up that can give the Yanks and Sox a run for there money as the best offense in baseball. And if Drabek gets it together they could have a pretty good 1-3 in the rotation.
The trade rumors for Rasmus for Edwin Jackson surfaces a little more than a week ago … and both teams (CWS and STL) would have likely been able to work out a deal that both teams could live with.
Credit AA for getting in the middle of it. He could have easily just assumed that both teams had a “deal in place”, since the CWS had what StL was looking for SP/RP. That’s a helluva move for him getting involved.
I think KW did pretty well in this deal too. Traded EJax wwho was likely gone after the 2011 season, and got a solid reliver and young SP back in return. As well, he got rids of one of his mistakes (Teahen) and created an opening for 1 of the 2 decent 3B prospects in the organization.
IMO, if the Cardinals are able to sign EJax to a team friendly extension, and he and moving McLellan back to the bullpen with the addition of Dotel helps them win the division and make the playoffs … they, as an organization, can probably live without Rasmus. I’m not the biggest Jon Jay fan around, but if you look at value metrics, StL isn;t going to experience a huge dropoff in performance. What is being decreased is the “potential”, but that’s only if you view Rasmus as a .280-25-85 type guy, which I do not think he is. If Jay turns out to be a 3 WAR CF, then it’s no big loss.
Comment by CircleChange11 — July 27, 2011 @ 2:08 pm
This trade is fine for the White Sox, dumping the Salary of Jackson/Tehan for a good reliever and solid SP prospect. Until you realize that Jackson was basically traded straight up for Rasmus about an hour later.
Comment by CircleChange11 — July 27, 2011 @ 2:14 pm
If the Jays were in any other division, JP Riccardi would still be running the team due to a couple playoff appearances and all sorts of close-to-playoffs seasons, and we’d all be laughing at them and comparing their yearly existence to that of the Angels, Tigers or White Sox – teams that are never complete in all aspects, never truly rebuilding, but never quite good enough to make people think they can win the WS. A ten year run of, “Oh, yeah, we might catch lightning in a bottle..”.
Circle is correct that the AL East is different than every other division in baseball. You need to do things different. Currently, AA is doing things different, and we all have hope. If you’re a reasonably intelligent person, you’re not going to like being an Angels fan, but right now, despite the worse record, if you’re reasonably intelligent, it’s fun to be a Jays fan.
That’s the only real downside for the CWS … Rasmus would have allowed either Rios or Pierre and their significantly negative WAR to get the Hell out of the lineup. But, Oz and KW probably feel Pierre will regress to his above average WAR in 2012. Yippee.
Comment by CircleChange11 — July 27, 2011 @ 2:15 pm
Well, even though it was a salary dump for the White Sox, to me this whispers that the White Sox are going for it this year. If they really wanted Rasmus, they could have parted with a couple relief pitchers to possibly acquire him, but that would completely incapacitate their bullpen. So, the Sox took an extra SP slot they had and bolstered the bullpen for a playoff run.
Maybe there’s some Don Cooper magic left for Zach Stewart, but I can’t see him being any better than a 5th starter quality arm right now… most likely a future bullpen arm
Kevin Goldstein was tweeting that he figures there must be something more to Rasmus’ issues in St. Louis than what has been said since Toronto got him for, seemingly, so less. Wouldn’t other teams have been able to match that?
But to that I say, how many team would be willing to give St. Louis something that will help them now? I mean, I doubt many teams would be willing to part with a number 3 starter, 2 pretty good relievers, and a 4th outfielder.
Neither Beane or Williams had a 2 year run like this. Not even close. The Wells trade, Bautista extension, Morrow deal, Escobar deal, Escobar extension, Lawrie trade (the one fair deal among these) and building a top 2 farm (from a bottom 5 system) in this time frame is unprecedented. It really is.
Rogers Communications has deep pockets and AA has stated on numerous occasions that he has his dream job. He’s not going anywhere. To think he’ll up and leave to work for a team like the Braves because he’ll be more “appreciated” is ignorant.
Also, if he’s as competitive as you allude to, why would he not want to win in the best division in baseball?
We cannot forget about Eric Thames! He has shown he can get a lot done for us. I really don’t see a trade for phillips or fielder happening in this dimension either. I wish we had a time machine so we could have shipped Hill after his all star appearance. I have always been a Hill fan, but I think we need more consistency from 2b. These young guys look very promising though.
Look I like the deal for the Jays, but Teahen is a horrible baseball player that will be taking up a roster spot next year in Toronto. Yes Rasmus has potential, but having to pay Teahen PLUS have him taking up a roster spot isn’t the best use of resources in 2012. If having to pay Mark Teahen next year is the difference between giving Prince or Pujols that extra 3 or 4 million to sign with the Jays or going else where, then this trade suddenly looks horrible.
Also, Rasmus has nearly 1,500 plate appearances and may or may not have a strike out problem to go along with what may or may not be a very bad glove and a father that may or may not be a problem for the coaching staff. He’s *probably* the best player in the trade, but I don’t think it’s a slam dunk that he is.
That’s not true since the Cardinals seem to have wanted some bullpen arms and a veteran outfielder. Unless the Sox could have trade Rios and Jackson for Rasmus, I don’t think you can say the Sox could have gotten Colby.
Yes, Beane and Kenny haven’t had a burst quite like Blue Jays, but CC is right in that this hot streak of swapping is similar to what the A’s and White Sox have done in the past by being a dramatic beneficiary of oddly perceived trade values.
In respect to Kenny, his 2000 to 2007 trading strength (up until the Gio Gonzalez deal and recent moves) was different because it mostly included a pretty nasty “failure” rate for teams acquiring his prospect and MLB roster talent (in addition to some significant low key wins like Quentin, John Danks, Gavin Floyd, Matt Thornton, Jim Thome, Freddy Garcia throughout a 3 year stretch).
See, even though other GMs had said they Won’t Get Fooled Again by AA, he used his Pure and Easy skills to pull off yet another Bargain. So while the Jays ride the Magic Bus back to contention, it’s just Another Tricky Day for everyone else. Proof that there’s no Substitute for a smart GM.
What exactly do you expect the lovely people of Toronto to celebrate? If we concerned ourselves with whether Alex’s trades or Jose’s bombs would help the team compete immediately, we’d be pretty sad people.
We’re not idiots, we can look at the Red Sox, Yankees, and Rays rosters. But if you don’t celebrate Alex and Jose doing their job well, you’re basically going to have to sit back and bitch about Corey Patterson and that gets old after about 3 weeks.
Toronto’s getting excited and you can see the hope in the eyes of the peeps up in this joint. It’s not because we expect to win the WS, it’s because we see that everyone with the organization is actually trying their bestest.
Shhh Kris! Stick with the “Howdy amigos, we’re you’re friendly, village idiot neighbours to the north” theme. It’s easier to sneak up on them that way. Kidding guys. Kidding.
This team has an outside chance next year, but is set up really nicely for a sustained run starting in 2013. After back to back bumbling GM regimes on the heels of back to back World Championships, it feels awesome to have someone in charge who appears to really know what they’re doing. If that makes some people feel nauseated so be it. Feel free to grab a bucket: nobody’s stopping you. But your nausea will not stifle this fan’s joy that things appear to be FINALLY heading in the right direction. That’s all I need as a fan. Show me that you’re doing everything you can to make the team better, and I’ll be even more on board than my normal fanatic status. For some people that means huge free agent ticket signings. If you can sign really good players to three or four years with a higher AAV, I’m good with it. Seven to ten year deals? Not a fan at all. Rather spend a whack of dough on amateur talent and young big league talent, than talent that’s on the wrong side of the aging curve.
Bill, that “They won’t make the playoffs in the next five years” refrain is exactly what was being said before 1985. It didn’t turn out to be true then, and I have a hunch/inkling that it’s not going to turn out to be true in the next five years either. You’re 1,000% entitled to your opinion though, and I’m 1,000% entitled to disagree with you. ;)
 Beane had quite a run with 2 CYA and 2 MVPs, including 4 straight playoff appearances. Williams, in terms of WAR, absolutely pillaged teams … and won a title.
 In the ealry 90s (92-94) the AL East was very different. The Rays were terrible, BOS was not what they are now, and the difference between top spending teams and the median was much, much, much smaller.
Since then, BOS has thrived with application of sabermetric principles and BIG spending. NYY outspends everyone with good success, and the Rays have become a force. So, even if TOR spends a bunch more, they still won’t spend anywhere near what BOS and NYY do. It’s possible that they find themselves passing TBR and either NYY or BOS to make the playoffs, but it’s not going to be an easy deal … especially with their pitching needs. It’s just a tremendously difficult situation.
I think the A’s and CWS are good examples of how difficult it is to maintain the Midas touch. While acknowledging that TOR can spend more than OAK, it also has to be considered how much BOS and NYY spend. At some point TOR is going to have to add through FA, and that’s an “overpaying” endeavor with mixed results. That is not to take anything away from AA. His moves, thus far, have been very good … but not necessarily unprecedented.
Comment by CircleChange11 — July 27, 2011 @ 9:38 pm
Imagine Rasmus and Dad trying to coexist with Ozzie and Kenny.
It’s almost a shame it didn’t happen.
Comment by CircleChange11 — July 27, 2011 @ 9:42 pm
Cheers to the Blue Jays on being the best damn fourth-place team they can be over the next several seasons.
Comment by Skeptical Bob — July 27, 2011 @ 9:46 pm
This could be one of those trades, like the ARZ-NYY-DET trade of last year, where the “loser” of the trade looks a little better a year or so down the line.
As a Rasmus fan, I’ve continually undervalued Jay and Craig. Jackson is still a very good pitcher, even though FG doesn’t like him. This’ll be the 3rd straight year he puts up 3.5+ WAR.
It also must be somewhat apparent, that Rasmus probably isn’t going to be the .280-25 HR type budding star with good CF defense … but is probably more along the lines of .260-20 with average to below defense.
I haven’t been the biggest Jon Jay fan, but it’s hard to argue with his performance. Everyone keeps waiting for his BABIP to collapse, and expose him as a “4th outfielder”. But, that might not happen to a large degree. He may turn out to be a 3 WAR everyday OF for next few seasons.
It really all comes down to how one views Rasmus’s “potential”. I don;t think any/many of us really know where that is. With his normal BABIP, he’s a solid 3 WAR CF. If Jay turns out to be of similar value, it won’t be a big loss. If the Cards make the playoffs this year, they’ll need Jackson in the playoffs, and the strengthened bullpen … which might be preferable to playing for a future that’s as uncertain as it gets in StL. Pujols, Berkman, Wainwright, Carpenter, LaRussa, etc … there’s a lot of questions and the only certain thing to really play for is 2011.
As a side note, it’s unfortunate that the off-field Rasmus stuff has played out like this. But, it might also mark a “new breed” of young player. As we saw with Chris (?) and Tim Lincecum, there are young and talented players that are coming with provisions. “Don;t touch his mechanics/swing”. With more and more young players having batting/pitching coaches that are separate (i.e., private) from their team coaches, this might be more prevalent. Consider the cases of Torres and Zobrist who went outside of the organization for instruction, and this might be a scenario that becomes more commonplace in MLB. That’ll be interesting to watch.
Comment by CircleChange11 — July 27, 2011 @ 9:55 pm
JD Drew was deemed to be the same thing, only to a larger degree. Drew never really turned out to be the team cancer, refuse to play hurt, type of guy that StL made him out to be (same with Scott Rolen). Drew put up a ~9 WAR season with ATL in his first year.
It’s hard to know exact situations when you only really hear from manager and media.
The difference with the Drew trade is that Wainwright came back in return. StL had Reggie Sanders replace Drew, then hit it with Larry Walker, followed by Juan Encarnacion, before hit the luck truck with Ryan Ludwick (coinciding with Edmonds end). Jim Edmonds in CF, both in the field and at the plate, made RF less important.
It’s hard for me to take TLR’s assessment of Rasmus …. when he’s had similar feelings about Drew and Rolen, both of whom continued to be really productive players after leaving StL, and you rarely hear of either guy being a “cancer”. TLR isn’t exactly the easiest guy to get along with.
Comment by CircleChange11 — July 27, 2011 @ 10:03 pm
They didn’t get rid of the cancer. Tony LaRussa is still in St. Louis.
listen guys, it’s a bad trade for the cardinals no matter how u look at it. yes, they may have gotten some solid pitchers that can help them but the main thing to point out is that they could have gotten more for rasmus. i havent seen one person claim that what the jays offered was the most the cardinals could have gotten from rasmus cuz it’s simply not true. so with that in mind, it is definitely a bad trade because they didnt maximize their return. center fielders with average to above average defense and solid power dont grow on trees. look at how many teams are interested in bj upton and that guy flirts with the mendoza line every year.
as for people hating on the fact that the jays might not make the playoffs…who cares? i seem to recall when the rays beat the yankees to clinch a playoff spot a few years ago with a non existant (relatively speaking) budget. further to this, just because they’re not in contention now doesnt mean they shouldnt try to make moves. Every trade that AA has made has resulted in the other team getting ripped off except for the lawrie trade as the jury is still out on that. but marcum is having a solid year so i dont think anyhting lawrie does will top it. but AA has proven that he knows what he’s doing better than a lot of other gms. so while the jays might not be in contention right now and might not be in contention next year, AA will definitely get them there at some point. it’d be real hard for him to accumulate so much talent and not win ball games with it. that being said, he needs to get a solid starting pitcher…but i am reading that the jays have an outside chance on ubaldo.
teahen dont matter. they can cut him to free up the roster spot or they can keep him. the spot he takes up is inconsequential as they can always just remove him from the 25 man roster.
and having to pay teahen next year wont make a difference as to whether or not they sign prince or albert. u see to think that the jays are up against the salary cap or something. right now they only have 35 mil or so committed for next year. ownership has said that rogers can support a 110-120mil team easily. the money that we saved on wells and rios alone can pay for albert or prince’s salary. that extra 3 or 4 mil we’ll be paying teahen wont matter.
plus, teahen’s contract runs out by 2012. jays can just as easily tack on those 3 or 4 mil in the subsequent years and pay prince or albert a little bit less in the first year. and even if they dont, they can defer part of the salary till after the season. guys do it all the time. dodgers still owe manny millions of dollars, agon has some of it deferred etc.
the main point im trying to make is that no team going after prince or albert is going to be short 3 or 4 mil. AA is not an idiot, if he is going to go after those 2, he would have made sure he has the money to get them before making this deal. so the thought of him not being able to sign albert or prince because he’s short a couple million is ridiculous..no team looking to sign those guys will be short money. if the jays cant sign them it’ll be because they dont want to play in canada, not because the jays are short on payroll. the jays are a lot richer than most people realize, they’re just not spending yet cuz they’re waiting for their prospects to break into the majors before splurging.
but the main thing to point out is that they could have gotten more for rasmus.
What were the other offers/scenarios?
I ask because we haven;t seen, in recent years, teams get a ton in trades like this.
The Cardinals got both starting and relief pitching help, and replaced Rasmus with a roster player that is producing at a similar rate.
This trade hurts the cardinals if  Rasmus turns out to be what he was once thought to be,  the Cards don’t make the playoffs.
It’s doubtful that Rasmus’s production is the difference between playoffs and not, but it is entirely realistic that increased performance in pitching (starting and relieving via chaining) is.
The other players that made some sense for StL, such as Heath Bell, had reportedly very high asking prices.
I’m curious as to what Atlanta might have offered for Rasmus. I haven’t seen/heard other possible offers for Rasmus.
Comment by CircleChange11 — July 27, 2011 @ 10:41 pm
also forgot to mention, trading frasor, dotel, patterson, rzepczynski pretty much adds up to 7 mil anyways as frasor and dotel were both being paid somewhere in the 3-3.7 mil range. so there’s teahen’s salary right there and it’s nothing to worry about.
i realize frasor and dotel are potential FA (team options) at the end of the season but it’s still money coming off the books so it dont matter if they took on teahen’s contract, they freed up that cash by trading those relievers away.
it also doesnt matter because the jays are way under what they can afford. if they wanted to, they could sign both prince and albert, they actually have that much money. Paul Beeston said as much when he was talking about the jay’s payroll. Rogers can and will bump up payroll in the very near future. AA is just putting the pieces together before they do. Remember, back in 2008 or 2009, the jays had a payroll of 97 mil. Next year they only have 35 or so commited.
But, they have to replace those guys on their roster, don’t they?
Frasor has been a valuable reliever (~1 WAR/Ssn)
Dotel has been replacement level.
Marc Rzep has been above replacement level
Patterson was above replacement level.
So, if getting rid of those guys freed up $7M, it would probably cost them the same amount to get the same performance level for promotions/acquisitions. That doesn’t count any value Stewart might have in the next season.
TOR has to replace those guys, and it won;t be free, and it might not be at the same performance level.
That’s not to say they won’t be overall better in the near future, but it’s going to cost. Even if they use that 7M for a FA acquisition, they are going to need to replace the pitchers lost. Who are they going to replace them with?
Comment by CircleChange11 — July 27, 2011 @ 10:58 pm
Very interesting point about outside coaching… could change a bunch of dynamics within teams. Would be very bad news for certain management styles. I guess the management reaction would be, when a player like that hits a slump: if we can’t coach him, let’s demote him and let his “people” figure it out between bus rides.
…And I’m sure everyone said “Cheers to the (at the time) Devil Rays for being the best damn cellar dwellers they can be” every year before 2008 happened…And then oh look, 2010 happened too. Baseball is like life: nothing stays the same forever. While the Jays’ progress is not visible at the big league level yet, the overhaul that has happened to the organization as a whole over the 22 months that AA has been in charge is pretty freakin’ remarkable. Just because some folks can’t see it, doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened.
I was just mentioning some of Beane’s accomplishments as part of the discussion about what GM has had the best short run.
If it helps, I’ll rephrase “He signed an amatuer shortstop for peanuts that put up a 4.7 WAR season.”
He drafted a 3-headed monster starting rotation, as well as, drafting an MVP (Giambi).
Regardless of all the other points and counterpoints, the MAIN point is that Billy Beane as a GM assembled a comparatively talented (or moreso) team than AA has. That was the discussion, whether AA has the most impressive short stint as a GM. Kenny Williams, through trades, Rule 5 acquisitions, etc did too.
TOR can increase their payroll to 120M, and that’ll be 80% of what NYY and BOS will be spending. TOR needs to make up 10 wins to get to where BOS and NYY are. That’s all assuming that BOS and NYY don’t make good moves to improve their teams as well.
That’s also assuming that TOR and BOS don’t nab the FA’s that AA has his eye on. It’s not like the rest of MLB will stand pat, while TOR uses its increased budget to intelligently nab the desired FA’s without any other teams getting some of them.
It’s easy to say “with XX money to spend, AA will make improvements that will put TOR on par with NYY and BOS”, it’s much more difficult to identify the players he’ll sign and for how much money, and whether that will eclipse the gap.
It’s possible that TOR does become one of the big 3 (or 4) in the AL East. But, it’s far from a foregone conclusion. I’d be interested to see who TOR targets as free agents.
They’re also going to need some pitching. That 60M (or whatever it is) increase in their budget is going to go quickly if/when they start adding serious impact free agents that can make up 10 wins in the standings.
It would be absolutely awesome if AA can pull this off. Given his division, it would be the most impressive starting tenure of a GM.
Comment by CircleChange11 — July 28, 2011 @ 12:36 am
why do i have click on the comment to see it? did they add this feature to things that get a ton of minus votes?
Teahan clearly does matter since he is going to get paid in 2012. Right now that’s by the Blue Jays. Sure there isn’t a salary cap, but every team has a budget, and Teahen is going to make $5.5 million bucks next year. That’s $5.5 million less to play with for actual baseball players and goes to a guy that in a best case scenario isn’t even playing on the Blue Jays. Worst case for the Jays is that Teahen is on the roster and getting paid $5.5 million to deliver a fifth straight season of negative WAR.
Look I still think the Jays won this deal, but this deal is better for them if Mark Teahen isn’t take up a roster spot since he hasn’t been a major league player in a number of years now, yet gets paid like someone who should be above replacement level. AA had to take on a really really bad contract to get Rasmus, who has issues of his own (though I’m guessing the Cardinals management was the major cause to those issues).
My grades, (which I realize don’t mean anything to anyone…) Jays: B+, White Sox: B, Cardinals: D+
I think the Sox are better in 2012 because of this trade, the Cardinals clearly worse, the Jays probably better assuming that they can still sign one of the big bats. The Cardinals *might* be better in 2011 because of this deal, and I don’t think the White Sox are that much worse off (maybe a win?) in a division that is, sadly, going to take up the playoff spot the Rays should be given.
I’m not seeing that dramatic a difference between his H/R splits, but maybe I’m missing something… I’m most interested in seeing his progression against LHPs. He seems to be really figuring that part of his game out.
Honestly his run with the Cards was so streaky and off the wall, I can’t help but glaze over his numbers.
Comment by CircleChange11 — July 28, 2011 @ 9:46 am
The Yankees always shoot themselves in the foot, forcing themselves to sign “true Yankees” or whatever it is that makes Derek Jeter & The Superfriends special, at the expense of having good players that aren’t true Yankees, as well as three times the expense of Yunel Escobar.
I think it’s funny that the Yankees get ragged on for being these stone cold “buy our championship” killers, when really they’re just big wusses that get bossed around by Derek Jeter.
The Red Sox, on the other hand, are much more annoying in their stone coldedness.
Also please, Self-Yankers, don’t get offended when someone tells you Derek Jeter sucks. It doesn’t matter if this is The Derek Jeter Summer of Love, next year is the Derek Jeter Comeback Tour, and it doesn’t matter that he had to personally refuse to be in the Derek Jeter All Star Game Featuring Derek Jeter, he still sucks and the Yankees are still being stupid about it.
circlechange -> if u look at it, most of the jays pen consists of players that were not there last year. as i recall only frasor, camp and janssen remain from last year and janssen doesnt really count cuz he was in the minors for at least a bit of the season last year iirc. either way it wont be hard for them to get some relievers. they have a bunch of players in the minors that can fill that role. it might be hard to replace frasor but dotel is not hard to replace. jury is out on rzepczynski, that guy can strike out the side or give up 3 hits in 5 pitches but even he can be replaced. furthermore, out of the 3 guys that they lost in the pen, 2 of them were potential FA anyways so there was no guarantee that they would have kept them. and im not sure how close walters is to the majors but if he’s near ready then the jays can use him too.
patterson is inconsequential as we dont need 5 outfielders, davis will take over his spot. davis is better defensively from what i’ve seen and is a much better base stealer. patterson getting caught time and again trying to steal 3rd with 1 out had really started to irritate me.
otter -> like i said teahen doesnt matter. he can be cut at any time to free up the roster spot. his remaining salary for this season is irrelevant as he’s going to be getting less than frasor and dotel combined so it’s not like we took on additional salary for this season. as for next season the 5.5mil salary also doesnt matter. like i just said (and a point u seem to have ignored) the jays are way under their budget. right now, bautista/snider/lind/escobar/davis/lawrie/arencibia/all 5 pitchers are all under contract and that only constitutes 35 mil or so. rasmus’ raise will increase that a bit but i dont think rasmus will get more than 2-3 mil which still puts it at under 40. with teahen’s contract, that puts the team at 43-45 mil with most positions filled. they need maybe 2 or 3 relievers depending on if their current prospects are major league ready. but 2 or 3 relievers wont cost more than 9 mil, putting them at 54 mil or so. their payroll this year is 61 mil. so they still have 7 mil to spend with not many spots on the roster to fill. 7 mil will not get u prince or albert but ownership has already said they’ll approve significant signings and increase budget if it’s a move that makes sense. 2 years ago they had a 97 million dollar budget. their payroll did not shrink because ownership demanded budget cuts, it shrank because they got rid of 2 crappy contracts. rios and wells would have cost over 25mil to keep. as it stands they got rid of both of them and replaced them with better players at a fraction of the cost. that’s why their current payroll is so low. like i’ve said before, paul beeston has already said that ownership is more than willing to increase payroll in order to field a competitive team. but AA doesnt feel like it’s the time to spend yet. but once he does make that decision, it will happen. maybe during the next FA period for prince or albert. i doubt those guys would want to come but that doesnt mean the jays cant afford them.
i agree with u that teahen’s contract is garbage. but we really only have to put up with it for a year. and the 5.5 mil he’ll be making next year is not significant enough to restrict what AA can do as the team is way under what their budget can be. and having saved 88 mil over the next 4 season from wells’ contract, the 5.5 mil from teahen next year wont matter. AA still has at least 25-35 mil to play with if he needs it provided that he’s going to use that money wisely so i dont see it as a problem. with the lack of FA starting pitchers in the next FA period, AA can go for prince or albert if he wants. and please stop bringing up how teahen takes up a roster spot as if he’s locked into the roster. the jays dont HAVE to keep him on the roster. they will designate him if they need the spot that he’s taking up.
also, AA knows his budget way better than any of us would, if he’s going after any significant free agents in the next off season, he would not handcuff himself 2 months before it begins. clearly for him, teahen’s contract does not represent an obstacle that would prevent him from signing anyone. 1. 5.5 mil is not that much to the jays when they’re way under what they can afford and will pay for. 2. AA would not have taken teahen if it prevents him from signing players. cuz right now ur only concern is that it will prevent him from signing albert or prince cuz i dont think there are going to be any other players in free agency that will command as high of a salary as they will. but i can guarantee u that any team looking to get either of those players wont be short a couple mil.
either way it wont be hard for them to get some relievers.
Every team thinks that, yet each year, relievers are the commodity and bullpens are often the difference between playoffs and not.
Interesting that the teams that have turned it around (SD in 2010, ARZ in 2011) have, in part, done it by solidifying the bullpen.
TOR is lacking in pitching.
My point with that is that they are going to have to fill out the roster with some quality pitching, and it’s not all going to come from the minor leagues. It’s going to eat into the 60M of increased budget. TOR and AA aren’t going to get to “pick and choose” what players they want as if they’re the only team in the shopping center. In some cases they are going to be in the situation of  overpaying for players or  allowing those players to go to NYY, BOS, PHL, etc.
If the only right answer is that AA will sign some big FA’s to good contracts (Fielder/Pujols, SPs, etc) and that the bullpen will be solidified by promoting cheap, cost-controlled pitchers within the organization …. then I’m willing to be on the wrong side. I don’t think any GM is that good (and one would have to consider what Epstein has done in BOS to be about as close to perfect as one could get).
Once you start making “a list” of everything AA has to do in order to get the team to catch up and surpass NYY and BOS, it quckly becomes a “The Cubs could win the WS list” (of years past), where they need a ‘series of unlikely events’ to make it happen.
That is not a knock on AA or TOR. It’s commentary on the size of the gap they have to overcome with the money they have available and the supply of players they need. They need pitching (and so does everyone else).
Comment by CircleChange11 — July 28, 2011 @ 11:33 am