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  1. I remember when the Rockies were trying to chose between Barmes and a rookie named Tulo-something

    Comment by Hurtlocker — November 22, 2011 @ 9:53 am

  2. And none of these stats measure baseball IQ, which Ronny scores about negative 100. Its a pretty sizeable upgrade as long as his glove holds up to career norms.

    Comment by PiratesHurdles — November 22, 2011 @ 9:57 am

  3. In a vacuum I think the deal is alright. However, when they had a decent enough stop gap to their big prospect in Cedeno at 3M, giving Barmes more money and 2 years seems too much. D’Arnaud should be given a real shot at the latest to start in 2013 and that makes Barmes a utility guy. 5M isn’t bad for that role, but for a team like the Pirates it seems like an over payment if he ends up in that role half way thru the contract.

    Comment by Gricomet — November 22, 2011 @ 10:04 am

  4. “$5.25M per year is a bit much for a glove man with average (at best) offense at shortstop — especially for two years”

    I come to Fangraphs to avoid stupid generalizations based on skewed perceptions of what’s valuable in Baseball. This stands out especially because you refute yourself with the actual numbers just one sentence later:

    “After all, Barmes posted 3.1 WAR in 2011, which correlates to $14.1M on the open market.”

    Comment by Alfredo — November 22, 2011 @ 10:25 am

  5. FYI, Brandon Wood is now a member of the Rockies, not the Pirates. Signed a minor league deal a few days ago.

    Comment by Perceptron — November 22, 2011 @ 10:30 am

  6. I thought the same thing. They are paying him for just over 1 win per year, and he’s averaged 2 wins for the last four years. It may end up being a very good deal, assuming he plays at career norms.

    Comment by Semi Pro — November 22, 2011 @ 10:32 am

  7. FYI: Brandon Wood is with Colorado. Pirates DFA’d him.

    Comment by Jake — November 22, 2011 @ 10:46 am

  8. Noted. Thanks for the catch.

    Comment by Jim Breen — November 22, 2011 @ 10:59 am

  9. I’m worried about his power numbers.

    Pat from WHYGAVS tweeted this. Without the Crawford Boxes, PNC Park won’t be kind to Barmes. I see some major offensive struggles this year. If his defense blows up as well, we could be seeing another Matt Diaz/Lyle Overbay.

    Comment by Steve — November 22, 2011 @ 11:00 am

  10. As a Brewers fan this signing is frustrating… the Pirates will in all likelihood not contend for a couple more years as the article says. Overpaying for a league-average shortstop over 2 years where the team will not be a serious contender isn’t a terrible move. However, it does mean that a ‘right now’ contender like the Brewers or Giants were not able to get him at a more true value. This pushes the Giants and Brewers to either downgrade to a Yuni B or similar, or overspend on a player like Furcal or Reyes. Both the Giants and Brewers can’t afford to overpay a SS with so many other holes to fill.

    Comment by JSprech — November 22, 2011 @ 11:01 am

  11. If the Bucs can add a 2+ WAR 1B they’re at least a .500 team in my opinion. streak is over baby

    Comment by Mingy — November 22, 2011 @ 11:16 am

  12. As an Astros fan, I’ve been screaming that we needed to resign this guy in August for 2years/12M. If he plays 250 games over the next two seasons, this isn’t overpaying, it’s a steal. I don’t know how San Fancisco or Milwaukee couldn’t pony up a better deal.

    Comment by Terence — November 22, 2011 @ 11:20 am

  13. If the Giants and Brewers have so many holes that they can’t afford to fill, maybe you’re being too generous calling them “right now” contenders? Your argument just sounds like you think the mediocre or bad teams shouldn’t attempt to make incremental improvements, but rather just stay out of the free agent pool to keep costs reasonable for the big boy teams.

    Comment by steex — November 22, 2011 @ 11:30 am

  14. You’re right. It’s the second coming of Tulo. Get your playoff tickets in now, Bucs fans!

    Seriously, the stats belie an OK bat/good glove SS. And that’s a stupid generalization? Half of his WAR is due to his defense. His glove, and the fact that he doesn’t suck on defense…that’s his value. Did we really need to see 4 different advance metrics pointing this out to appease you?

    Comment by kidsmoke96 — November 22, 2011 @ 11:31 am

  15. And by ‘he doesn’t suck on defense’, I meant ‘he doesn’t suck on offense.’ The Onion regrets the error.

    Comment by kidsmoke96 — November 22, 2011 @ 11:33 am

  16. I’m not sure if I’m worried by this chart. He hit 5 at MMP. 5 at other NL Central parks (including 2 at PNC in 8 games played), 1 in Coors, and 1 in Petco. That looks like it should be fairly repeatable. Considering that charts like this don’t show doubles and triples that would have been HR’s in other parks, I wouldn’t expect too much of a power drop off.

    Comment by Terence — November 22, 2011 @ 11:39 am

  17. Of course it is an over pay. Bad teams nearly always overpay for free agents.

    Comment by Anon — November 22, 2011 @ 11:43 am

  18. Good luck with that.

    Very likely sub .500 next year, probably the year after next as well. 2014 looks like a good shot to break the streak (Brewers and Reds not as good then, Cubs better, Cards could go either way). Really depends on spending and aggressiveness of management.

    Comment by Anon — November 22, 2011 @ 11:53 am

  19. Barnes will make more than Yunel Escobar will in any year of the contract he signed, and some of those years are club options. Amazing signing by AA.

    Comment by Grant — November 22, 2011 @ 11:57 am

  20. I’m not sure that you’re considering market value, which is what the author, Jim Breen (who?), was referring to.

    Comment by filihok — November 22, 2011 @ 12:33 pm

  21. As a Giants follower (not a fan until they get rid of Baer-Sabean-Bochy), I couldn’t agree more. The Giants will either break the bank for Reyes or Rollins (adding another $15M to their already wasted $41M for Rowand-Zito-Huff) or break the value of the team by signing someone like Betancourt.
    If the Pirates could sign Barmes for $10.5, I can’t believe the Giants couldn’t have signed him for something similar, but apparently they never even considered him.

    Comment by Husker — November 22, 2011 @ 1:45 pm

  22. “…sound like you think the mediocre or bad teams shouldn’t attempt to make incremental improvements, but rather just stay out of the free agent pool to keep costs reasonable for the big boy teams.”

    Exactly. This is what the MLB’s problem is when you compare it to the NFL… the free agent market in baseball is controlled by the big boy teams. Making incremental improvements on a bad or mediocre team in MLB will get you nowhere. I call teams like the Giants or Brewers ‘right now’ teams because they are built to compete this year with only a few tweaks. These small tweaks become more expensive than they should be, is my argument.

    Comment by JSprech — November 22, 2011 @ 2:48 pm

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