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  1. “acquiring Ty Wigginton from the Phillies” & “the prospect of more than $40 million committed to Hunter Pence, Ryan Howard and Michael Cuddyer”

    sorry for partying

    Comment by tyke — November 21, 2011 @ 10:58 am

  2. Agreed, Wiggington is bad but it’s better than a long term deal for Cuddyer

    Comment by agam22 — November 21, 2011 @ 11:02 am

  3. I would never say Wigginton won’t produce like Cuddyer. Sure, Ty has been slightly worse than Cuddyer the past few seasons, but neither player is consistent enough to actually predict what their season stats will look like. You could look at Wigginton’s BABIP the past two seasons as being a consistent .270-.271, but even that’s too small a sample size for me when it comes to both these players’ consistency. With the Phillies having enough depth to use Ty primarily against lefties, I think he’ll have a bounce back, and will be a much better risk than Cuddyer, at least monetarily. Really, the only reason Cuddyer is almost guaranteed to outproduce Wigginton is because some team will overpay him to be a fulltime player.

    Comment by jkafka — November 21, 2011 @ 11:06 am

  4. Not sure why you mention Ben Francisco as a 1B option- he’s never played there. I assume you mean Mayberry plays 1B and Francisco plays OF. I’d say it’s unlikely he plays much at 2B, even if Utley is out, he’s a corner player through and through.

    Comment by DD — November 21, 2011 @ 11:13 am

  5. Does the addition of Wiggington to RAJ’s Tilt-A-Whirl effectively extinguish all hopes of Brown’s potential fantasy value in 2012?

    Comment by Blake — November 21, 2011 @ 11:18 am

  6. Doesn’t affect Brown, because Ty is not a primary OF option, especially if they still have Francisco. Also, Amaro said they will try to keep Brown in AAA all year, which although unlikely, that alone will kill his fantasy value.

    Comment by DD — November 21, 2011 @ 11:20 am

  7. Brown will play if he’s ready, which he’ll need to show in AAA (where he’ll likely start the season). This makes it slightly less likely that he’s called up quickly, as Mayberry is now less likely to log significant time at 1B.

    Overall, I’d say it has minimum effect.

    Comment by abreutime — November 21, 2011 @ 11:32 am

  8. No offense to the author of this piece, but this is the most boring time of the baseball year. On fangraphs in the past week, we’ve seen articles on earth-shattering acquisitions like Ty Wigginton, Jason Bartlett, Matt Treanor, and Mark Kotsay. I can’t wait till the real (off)season starts.

    Comment by Yirmiyahu — November 21, 2011 @ 11:32 am

  9. Yeah, RAJ believes players are only valuable if they are approximately 30 or above. At 24 Brown is still too young for the MLB roster.

    Comment by LTG — November 21, 2011 @ 11:35 am

  10. Ty is slow and doesn’t beat out grounders. He pops up a good deal as well. If his babip is higher than the .270s, I’ll be shocked. He’ll likely hit .240s yet again. Throw in some putrid defense and you essentially have a win-neutral player. Does the benefit of his playing multiple positions poorly, overcome his inability to hit the ball with any reasonable prowess? Removing his games at Coors and the numbers get even more ugly, so .270s babip and .240s avg is essentially his ceiling.

    Comment by bballer319 — November 21, 2011 @ 11:38 am

  11. I can’t wait for the real (off)season comments!

    Comment by Slacker George — November 21, 2011 @ 12:03 pm

  12. In reference to the second paragraph:

    I wasn’t aware the Phillies could acquire a player from themselves.

    Comment by Drew — November 21, 2011 @ 12:05 pm

  13. According to Baseball Reference’s WAR, Wigginton cost the Rockies a full win last year. Michael Martinez ended up at an even 0 for much less money, plus he can play SS and CF, where Wigginton has 13 innings at SS and 0 at CF for his career. This seems like wasted money to me

    Comment by Person — November 21, 2011 @ 12:21 pm

  14. They’re just that good.

    Although, it could almost come true–if the PTBNL turns out to be Wiggington, the Rockies could acquire Wiggington from themselves.

    Comment by Phrozen — November 21, 2011 @ 12:25 pm

  15. Michael Martinez hit .196/.258/.282 last year. Wiggington hit .242/.315/.416.

    Comment by Phrozen — November 21, 2011 @ 12:27 pm

  16. I’m just wondering, why would you use bWAR when commenting on an article on Frangraphs? Is it becausse bWAR made your point, but his +0.3 fWAR did not or is there another reason?

    Comment by hk — November 21, 2011 @ 1:17 pm

  17. * Fangraphs, not Frangraphs.

    Comment by hk — November 21, 2011 @ 1:18 pm

  18. I know that he did, but he runs the bases better and fields better. As I said, he was a neutral player, where Wigginton cost the Rockies 1.1 wins last year. By fangraphs Wigginton was worth .3 and Martinez -.4, but it’s hard to think that Martinez could hit that bad again, and even if he does the difference between the two players isn’t that large.
    Wigginton Career
    Fielding- -77.3
    Baserunning- -11.5

    Comment by Person — November 21, 2011 @ 1:22 pm

  19. I just used fangraphs in my last post. Yes, there is a difference between the two, but even last year it was only a .7 difference. And it’s hard to believe martinez won’t hit better than .196, and Wigginton isn’t getting any younger. His WAR over the last 3 years, using fangraphs, has been -.7.

    Plus, you’re arguing for him because he put up .3 WAR, and costs a good bit more than Martinez? Why trade and take on 2 million for .3 WAR, when he is already 33. Fangraphs WAR or not this trade isn’t a good one.

    Comment by Person — November 21, 2011 @ 1:30 pm

  20. As a Phillies fan, I don’t really like the move in and of itself. I would have preferred that they sign Wilson Betemit if the cost was going to be similar. However, I do like Wigginton more than Michael Martinez, who may or may not hit better than .196. After all, he was a 28 year old rookie who only compiled a .310 wOBA in 2,200 minor league plate appearances.

    Comment by hk — November 21, 2011 @ 1:38 pm


    Comment by every thinking rockies fan — November 21, 2011 @ 1:44 pm

  22. No doubt Martinez isn’t good, it’s strange that the Phillies picked him in the rule 5, and then kept him on the roster hitting under .200 all year. The Phillies definitely could use an upgrade, I was just saying Wigginton wasn’t the right guy.

    This shows how slow the baseball news is, we were actually debating the merits of Michael Martinez and Ty WIgginton

    Comment by Person — November 21, 2011 @ 2:14 pm

  23. WAR aside (and fWAR actually gives Wiggles a .7 WAR advantage), Wiggles is an outstandingly better hitter than Mini-Mart. Yes, he doesn’t field well at all, but MM spent nearly as much time as a PH as he did a defensive player.

    As far as speed, they’re actually rather comparable. MM is not very fast.

    Comment by Phrozen — November 21, 2011 @ 2:19 pm

  24. Also, I like calling him Wiggles. Not sure if I’m the first to do that or not, but that’s what I’m calling him now.

    Comment by Phrozen — November 21, 2011 @ 2:20 pm

  25. Just because we’re on fangraphs doesn’t mean that fangraphs’ version of WAR is supreme and any other version is meaningless. Especially for batters, BR’s version of WAR is just as legitimate. Neither version should be ignored.

    Comment by Yirmiyahu — November 21, 2011 @ 3:11 pm

  26. your team is paying as much as we are for this guy. And we may actually get some production as you know.. he’s like on our team.

    Comment by Nik — November 21, 2011 @ 3:22 pm

  27. philly fans have become so arrogant they think that they’ll succeed even through having on of the worst players in baseball over the last 10 years become part of their starting crew. i hope you’re happy with your new player’s .262 career high-leverage wOBA and .295 mark with RISP. suckers

    Comment by jim — November 21, 2011 @ 3:45 pm

  28. yeah career high-leverage and RISP data! Oh boy, that really rocks my boat for a guy who’s upgrading Michael Martinez.

    Comment by Nik — November 21, 2011 @ 3:55 pm

  29. My thoughts:

    1) Ty Wigginton, John Mayberry, and Ben Francisco are all right-handed hitters.

    2) I believe that Francisco is a free agent. I expect the Phillies to let him walk.

    3) I can see Philly signing a fourth OF who bats left-handed to either platoon with Mayberry or play in LF if/when Shane Victorino is injured (wherein Mayberry will play in CF). This fourth OF is not a guy who is going to make a ton of money but would presumably be a veteran.

    4) I fully expect the Phillies to keep Domonic Brown in AAA for the entire season. The plan, presumably, is to allow Shane Victorino to walk at the end of the 2012 season, for Mayberry to become the full-time CF starting in 2013, and for Brown to become the full-time LF starting in 2013.

    5) Mayberry seems good enough at this point to play every single day. I see no reason why he would play at 1B at any point this season.

    6) Thus, Ty Wigginton would be the full-time 1B while Ryan Howard is out, if Jim Thome is unable to play in the field. Thome hasn’t played in the field for years and it is my understanding that he is a non-option as a fielder. However, maybe Thome can still play some in the field, which means that a Wigginton/Thome platoon at 1B while Howard is out would make sense.

    7) I can also see the Phillies playing Chase Utley at 1B occasionally and their utility IF to play 2B on these days. This makes sense if Thome is unable to play in the field.

    Anyway, handing Michael Cuddyer, who would be mostly useless upon Howard’s return, a large multiyear contract was going to be a mistake, so I am on board with this move.

    Comment by Robbie G. — November 21, 2011 @ 4:13 pm

  30. Wigginton’s full season numbers over past couple of years also look worse because he hasn’t put in the best position to succeed. He’s not an everyday player and should not be facing 495 more RHP than LHP over the past two seasons. If Charlie can keep a nice platoon going with him with Thome, they shouldn’t miss Howard much at all for the time being. Could also spot start him for Utley against a lefty when need be. Of course theory and having Charlie actually doing that are two completely different things.

    Comment by byosti — November 21, 2011 @ 4:53 pm

  31. Wigginton is actually slightly below replacement value the last 3 years.

    Why is this being couched as Wigginton vs Cuddyer as if these were the only 2 potential options… how about Wigginton vs ANYONE else possibly posting 0 WAR? (which would be a slight improvement)

    Comment by Joe — November 21, 2011 @ 5:06 pm

  32. Francisco is eligible for arbitration, which he will probably get.

    Comment by Phrozen — November 21, 2011 @ 6:05 pm

  33. say what you will, but when june rolls around and all there is to talk about is how great halladay is and how shitty wiggy is, we’ll see who’s got the last laugh

    Comment by jim — November 21, 2011 @ 8:05 pm

  34. why would you not start utley against a lefty? he’s got virtually no platoon splits

    Comment by jim — November 21, 2011 @ 8:06 pm

  35. Sunday night the Phillies opted for the latter, acquiring Ty Wigginton from the Phillies in exchange for cash or a player to be named later.


    Comment by My echo and bunnymen — November 21, 2011 @ 8:33 pm

  36. Really, the only reason Cuddyer is almost guaranteed to outproduce Wigginton is because some team will overpay him to be a fulltime player.

    Cuddyer is worth 2.1 WAR/600 PA over the last 3 years.
    Wigginton is worth -0.3 WAR/600 PA over the last 3 years.

    Making Wigginton a full-time player probably isn’t going to make him better than Cuddyer.

    Comment by Zach — November 21, 2011 @ 9:50 pm

  37. We had the worst starting player in baseball this year, I don’t think Wigginton is going to make that much of a difference.

    Comment by Spoilt Victorian Child — November 21, 2011 @ 9:54 pm

  38. If Wigginton is replacing Michael Martinez, I’m fine with that move. I’d still like them to go after Wilson Betemit to platoon with Polanco, but that is looking unlikely now.

    I’d like to see Mayberry, Utley and Thome get the time at 1B before Howard returns. I only mention Utley at 1B because it could increase his playing time with less strain on his body.

    Comment by Phils_Goodman — November 21, 2011 @ 11:01 pm

  39. No, I mean when Charlie does decide to want to give Utley a rest, to use Wigginton against a lefty rather than for some reason resting Utley for Wigginton against a righty. If it was up to me, I’d start Utley as much as I can.

    Comment by byosti — November 22, 2011 @ 5:49 pm

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