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  1. As an M’s fan I love the move. However, I don’t think Detroit will be disappointed. Washburn in that ballpark, with Granderson out there, will probably continue to have some success.

    It’s a rental that adds some experience and a marginal upgrade for this season. Plus adds a pitcher with postseason experience.

    I think both side will be happy, although if Detroit ever offers him arbitration they are going to get royally screwed

    Comment by Roger — July 31, 2009 @ 11:01 am

  2. I like this trade for both teams. Robles has been putting up crazy numbers all year, and French is at the very least an upgrade over Jason Vargas. Tigers folks have been calling French a “one-hit wonder” for weeks now and didn’t consider him “playoff starter” material. Well, Washburn should at least quiet that talk temporarily, until his performances also fall back down to earth.

    Comment by H0RAT!0SANZSERIF — July 31, 2009 @ 11:02 am

  3. Huzzah for Jack!

    Comment by Jason T — July 31, 2009 @ 11:04 am

  4. Luke French is not as good as Jarrod Washburn. He’s an ok pitcher, but you have to wonder if his early success is going to fade once hitters get used to him. There’s nothing that stands out about his stuff, that’s for sure.

    Comment by Nick — July 31, 2009 @ 11:11 am

  5. This makes the Snell+Wilson trade look better, too, because that big hole in the A ball rotation gets at least partially filled by Robles. And the major league rotation gets younger without getting hugely worse (or hugely more expensive, the alternative if Washburn had signed an extensions or had to be replaced via free agency).

    Meanwhile, Detroit gets the rental they need to go into the post season.

    Good trade.

    It’s just a shame Bedard wasn’t healthy enough to trade also.

    Comment by joser — July 31, 2009 @ 11:12 am

  6. Luke French is awful, he’s nowhere near Washburn’s quality and will be at best a mop-up reliever in the majors.

    Comment by Agalloch — July 31, 2009 @ 11:14 am

  7. I think the heat is getting to those Washingtonians. Luke French is only in the majors because half of the Tigers’ starters flamed out and/or are on the DL (Bonderman, Willis, and Robertson) and their actual pitching prospects were traded away before (H. Sanchez and Jurgens). Robles has a huge upside, but he is so low in the system one would be foolish project stardom out of him.

    Meanwhile, Washburn has given up 3 earned runs in his past five games. Maybe he’s been lucky, or maybe he’s actually hot. Not a bad role of the dice for Dombrowski.

    Comment by Dave S. — July 31, 2009 @ 11:18 am

  8. Tiger fans are extremely pleased with this deal. Just because French was in our starting rotation doesn’t mean he’s a big league quality pitcher. We just desparately needed a left handed starter and forced him into that 5th spot. He may turn out to be a very good pitcher, but from what we’ve seen here in Detroit, he was well worth giving up for a proven, veteran lefty that is having a career year. French is by no means a high level prospect, and looks like at best he will turn into a replacement level 4th or 5th starter. I know nothing about Robles, but it will be 3-4 years before he’s ready to make an impact at the major league level if that is in the cards for him. All in all, a very fair deal that I’m glad to see both sides are excited about.

    Comment by TigerFan — July 31, 2009 @ 11:20 am

  9. Considering that Dave Cameron is the same bozo who told us that the Matt Joyce-Edwin Jackson trade was “a ridiculously bad trade” for the Tigers, his disapproval is nothing but great news!

    Tigers will slot Washburn in at #3 for their PLAYOFF ROTATION.

    His last five starts: 4-0, 0.74 era, 20 hits in 36.2 innings, .382 OPS

    Comment by DD in Washington — July 31, 2009 @ 11:20 am

  10. There’s nothing that stands out about Washburn’s stuff, either. Right now, they’re almost the same pitcher.

    Except French is under team control for years and costs nothing, where as Washburn’s a two month rental.

    The M’s stay about the same talent-wise, plus they get French for years, plus they get an interesting young lefthander in A ball.

    Fantastic deal for Seattle.

    Comment by Brian — July 31, 2009 @ 11:24 am

  11. NO WAY they are the same level of talent. I think M’s fans are SERIOUSLY overvaluing Luke French.

    Comment by TigerFan — July 31, 2009 @ 11:30 am

  12. I like the cut of Washburns jib. Kinda reminds me of my season in 2006. Crafty veteran lefty with playoff experience. Exactly what Detroit needs down the stretch.

    Comment by Kenny Rogers — July 31, 2009 @ 11:48 am

  13. Yeah, those Washingtonians don’t know what they’re seeing. They only have seen every one of Washburn’s startst this year and for the last 3 years too. Wow, what are they smoking.

    Comment by CMC_Stags — July 31, 2009 @ 11:51 am

  14. Comerica Field is a cavern. I think Washburn won’t have any trouble with his flyballs going out of that park.

    Comment by daniel — July 31, 2009 @ 11:56 am

  15. Jarrod Washburn is a below-average pitcher. It’s not hard to find someone with his talent level.

    Comment by Teej — July 31, 2009 @ 12:02 pm

  16. Let’s do the famous Pitcher A and Pitcher B comparison (2009 stats):

    Pitcher A: 5.35 K/9, 2.23 BB/9, .249 BABIP, 3.75 FIP,
    21.4/36.1/42.5% LD/GB/FB, 6.4% HR/FB

    Pitcher B: 5.83 K/9, 3.38 BB/9, .327 BABIP, 3.87 FIP,
    21.6/28.4/50.0% LD/GB/FB, 3.9% HR/FB

    So pitcher A has a better FIP, fewer walks, and has a better defense behind him. He’s also 35 and owed $3.5M over the rest of the season. Pitcher B is 23 and won’t make $3.5M over the next 3-4 seasons combined.

    So thank you Tigers!

    Comment by CMC_Stags — July 31, 2009 @ 12:03 pm

  17. I’m not convinced that this was a fleecing in either direction. The M’s certainly got what they want (young cheap pitching with upside) and the Tigers got what they need a lefty, that (at least right now) is pitching better than he ever has *and* a getting lucky to boot.

    It seems to be the definition of a win-win trade in the short/medium term.

    In the long run the pieces that the Ms got certainly have more upside potential than a 35 year old fly baller who has talked about retirement a number of times this year.

    Comment by Robin — July 31, 2009 @ 12:11 pm

  18. Pitcher B has a whopping sample size of 29 innings. Just saying.

    Comment by Andre — July 31, 2009 @ 12:13 pm

  19. Until the Tigers called him up in desperation, nobody in Detroit or anywhere else was talking about French as a prospect. He’s done relatively well for a few games, but there is no real reason to take him seriosuly as a major league starter. He’ll be down at Tacoma before the end of the year.

    Comment by rea — July 31, 2009 @ 12:13 pm

  20. Well it’s good to know that hope springs eternal.

    Having watched Jarrod Washburn for a number of years as an A’s fan, I can only say…Tigers fans better hope they’re catching lightning in a bottle.

    He’sthe one pitcher in Seattle that I would consistently look forward to facing on the mound because he just wasn’t so good.

    He’s had an ERA below 4.30 exactly once over the past six years, back in 2004 back when the Angels were still from Anaheim.

    From 2006-2008, opposing batters had .274/.330/.443 against him which included tours of some very pitcher friendly stadiums and, if I remember correctly, an offensively pathetic AL West.

    I don’t know about the minor leaguers that he was traded for, so I can’t evaluate whether this was a good deal and for who.

    But ultimately, the Tigers front office is betting that he’s dramatically better at age 35 than he has been from ages 29-34. It’s not a bet I would take if I were in the hunt for the playoffs.

    Comment by Avarice — July 31, 2009 @ 12:13 pm

  21. Maybe the Tigers can trade Washburn for Smoltz and get a good pitcher…

    Comment by Pat — July 31, 2009 @ 12:15 pm

  22. I see this sort of flawed logic so often, it’s just annoying:

    “His value is entirely tied to an ERA that is, quite simply, a fluke. His 2.64 ERA is more than a run lower than his 3.75 FIP…”

    Now, Washburn has 1820 innings of proof that he has the ability to have an ERA lower than his FIP. At some point, it’s clear that the empirical evidence is overwhelmingly supportive of the idea that the model has a flaw with regard to a specific member of the study group. Presuming that the group-level assumptions which went into the FIP formula in the first place apply equally to Washburn is just nonsense.

    Washburn has a 110 career ERA+. He’s a good major-league pitcher. The Tigers have firmed up their D this year (a lot), and he should be fine.

    That all being said, I do agree with the conclusions, though the magnitude of excitement, and the disrespect of Washburn both seem unwarranted. Yet another sharp move by a sharp GM.

    Comment by BobbyMac — July 31, 2009 @ 12:18 pm

  23. Do you even look at the numbers on this website? Jackson had a huge change in his career line, specifically his walk rate, that has made him a much better pitcher this year. But expecting that to happen is crazy.

    Was the trade, in hindsight, as success for Detroit? Yes. Was it a good trade at the time (unless you had ESP and know Jackson would get his K/BB rate from ~1.42 to ~2.4)? No.

    Comment by CMC_Stags — July 31, 2009 @ 12:20 pm

  24. Given the M’s current rotation French is NOT going to be the one down in Tacoma.

    The point is not that French is a #2 starter. I think most informed Ms fans realize that he is just a much a flyballer as Wash and his H/FB rate is totally unsustainable. But right now he is a back end starter at age 23, and all Washburn really is is an expensive #4-5 start at age 35. This is why Ms fans are thrilled… and that is before you thrown in Robles who instantly becomes one of the Ms best pitching prospects.

    No, you can never get too hyped up about pitchers when they are as far away a A-ball, but adding arms with such upside is what you have to do in order to try and eventually get some to the big club.

    Comment by Robin — July 31, 2009 @ 12:21 pm

  25. A “mop up reliever” making the league minimum is more value for the M’s than Washburn would’ve been next year (or the years after that).

    Comment by joser — July 31, 2009 @ 12:24 pm

  26. And Pitcher A has 1820.2 IP with a FIP of 4.53 and ERA of 4.02. In 2006-2008 he pitched ~450 innings and had a FIP in the 4.7s every season.

    Comment by CMC_Stags — July 31, 2009 @ 12:25 pm

  27. It was never a ridiculously bad trade. Never. If Jackson performed to his career averages, it would have been a good trade for the Tigers, who needed pitching. They traded a surplus for a need to improve their team. That’s how its done. That’s how its always been done. The day the Tigers added Jackson for Joyce they were a better team. How much better, no one really knew.

    Comment by DD in Washington — July 31, 2009 @ 12:27 pm

  28. French is an OK prospect but nothing for the Mariners to get excited about. Washburn is not not a 2.62 pitcher but I trust Washburn in the rotaton a lot more than French. Washburn needs good defense and the Tigers have that. The Tigers have significantly upgraded their staff with this move.

    Robles is the one who potentially has pretty good upside. He is a better prospect than French but has a long way to go.

    Comment by Lee Panas — July 31, 2009 @ 12:33 pm

  29. “Actually hot” is a synonym for “lucky.” He’s been improved this year (fewer walks), but not that much. He’s had the benefit of Franklin Gutierrez (for which Granderson is a fine substitute) catching balls that would’ve been XBHs in past years. But he has been giving up home runs at a career low (and unsustainable) rate, which is part of why his strand rate is at a career high. Detroit is indeed gambling that this will continue, and it just might, but it is just that: a gamble

    Comment by joser — July 31, 2009 @ 12:33 pm

  30. Washburn’s career FIP is ~.5 above his ERA. Most of his seasons mirror this pretty closely. The exceptions being his 84 innings in 2000 and his previous best season in 2005. Throwing out 2000, in 2005 his ERA was 1.15 lower than his FIP. This year his ERA 1.10 lower. So he HAS sustained this level of sub FIP performance in the past – but it is more likely that he will regress towards that career average of -.5.

    That means he is still probably of value to the Tigers, but they really should expect him to be closer to the 4.2-4.4 ERA/4.6-4.9 FIP pitcher that he has been for the last several years.

    Comment by Robin — July 31, 2009 @ 12:33 pm

  31. I see this sort of flawed logic so often, it’s just annoying.

    We also have 1820 innings of proof that his 3.75 FIP is a fluke. The last 3 seasons his FIP was in the 4.7s. Yes he’s improved some this season, but dropping a whole point off his FIP compared to his last 3 seasons is not sustainable.

    Also, looking at career numbers for players in their mid to late 30s is a mistake. For example:

    Ken Griffey Jr has a career wOBA of .387. He’s a good major-league hitter.

    Comment by CMC_Stags — July 31, 2009 @ 12:36 pm

  32. You’re forgetting that the Rays still get 6 years of Matt Joyce out of the deal. Just because he isn’t in the majors now doesn’t mean he’s gone away, and he’s currently posting a .378 wOBA in Triple-A, still plays great defense, and has experienced success at the major league level.

    2 years of Edwin Jackson for 6 years of Matt Joyce? Even with the trade working out better than anyone could have anticipated (anyone with a strong grounding in reality over suspicion, that is) that may end up a wash.

    Comment by JH — July 31, 2009 @ 12:37 pm

  33. I’m not saying Washburn has ace-stuff, just that there’s plenty of room for French to regress.

    Comment by Andre — July 31, 2009 @ 12:38 pm

  34. I think this is a very good trade for the Mariners, but that doesn’t mean it is a bad trade for the Tigers.

    I’d say good trade for Mariners, OK trade for Tigers. No matter how little you think of Washburn, I still think he is highly likely to be an upgrade over French for the rest of this year and the playoffs, which was the Tigers’ big concern. And neither French nor Robles is a top prospect, so while they can be useful pieces to the Mariners and are certainly worth more to them than the last 2 months on Washburn’s contract, I don’t think the Tigers will spend the next 20 years kicking themselves (neither French or Robles is going to turn into Smoltz).

    Comment by mymrbig — July 31, 2009 @ 12:39 pm

  35. I never do this, but…

    Owned.

    Comment by JH — July 31, 2009 @ 12:39 pm

  36. “Washburn has a 110 career ERA+. He’s a good major-league pitcher. The Tigers have firmed up their D this year (a lot), and he should be fine. ”

    Yea, I love using Career ERA+. Forget about his Mariner ERA+ average of 95 for the last three years which, even using that archaic method of evaluating pitching, means that Washburn has been below average. His recent FIP has floated around the 4.70 mark.

    Washburn is having a career year fueled by good defense and an unsustainable homerun rate. The last time he looked this good Bill Bavasi was seduced enough by the results to sign him to a 4-year deal in which M’s fans had to put up with three below average years.

    For a two month rental, this trade might be worth the risk for the Tigers. The downsize REALLY sucks though.

    As for Luke French? Hell, the Mariners have had to keep running out Garret Olson to make starts. They’ll take there chances here.

    Comment by ThundaPC — July 31, 2009 @ 12:43 pm

  37. * (Yea, make that downSIDE)

    Comment by ThundaPC — July 31, 2009 @ 12:45 pm

  38. How are Washburn’s stats changed by having a worse defenisve outfield behind him? I know Granderson is similar to Gutierrez, but I also know for a time the Tigers were running out Carlos Guillen in LF…

    Basically…won’t his stats increase due to more of those flyballs finding gaps in Detroit?

    Comment by Myk — July 31, 2009 @ 12:46 pm

  39. Yes, that probably true – but Detroit is probably one of the places where Washburn is most likely to continue his success so far this season thanks to Granderson and the spacious “confines” of Comerica.

    Comment by Robin — July 31, 2009 @ 12:49 pm

  40. Rumors said that the M’s would be demanding much more than this for Washburn. Ultimately, they got what he was worth. Luke French has been serviceable for his few starts, but the Tigers desperately needed a 3rd veteran starter (we can’t rely on Porcello to be our #3 starter because of the number of innings required). This is exactly the type of trade Tiger fans wanted and the type of trade our team needed to make. There isn’t much organizational depth and the Tigers could not afford to give up what few quality prospects we have. A+ for the Tigers. I can’t wait to dig some ground balls from this guy on Tuesday.

    Comment by Brandon Inge — July 31, 2009 @ 12:53 pm

  41. Hey Kenny, does Washburn scuff the ball and use pine tar to alter the rotation of his pitches? If so, you’re right. He is you!

    Comment by kenn92 — July 31, 2009 @ 1:00 pm

  42. Guillen hasn’t played the field since coming off the DL. Having said that, neither Rayburn or Ordonez are defensive studs.

    Comment by Andre — July 31, 2009 @ 1:01 pm

  43. In a very telling sample size of 37 MLB PA’s in 2009, Matt Joyce sucks.

    I have learned something today.

    Comment by Joe R — July 31, 2009 @ 1:01 pm

  44. A Dave Cameron endorsement is the surest thing to fool’s gold. Cameron unapologetically continues to make predictions that blow up in his face. The guy is a joke. His “I would never trade Jeremy Reed for Papelbon and Lester since Reed is clearly the better player” is par for the course for him.

    Comment by Jeff Nye — July 31, 2009 @ 1:02 pm

  45. Yes. In fact, Washburn’s numbers would have increased if he’s stayed in Seattle. He’s simply not as good as he looked on the surface this season: some of that surface impression was good defense for which he got credit, but some of it was just luck. He’s a back of the rotation starter who’s good enough not to make you cringe when you think about it.

    Comment by Fresh Hops — July 31, 2009 @ 1:06 pm

  46. If you aint cheatin, you aint tryin.

    Comment by Kenny Rogers — July 31, 2009 @ 1:10 pm

  47. If you’re expecting ground balls, Brandon, I think you’re going to be disappointed.

    Comment by Teej — July 31, 2009 @ 1:10 pm

  48. The point here is that the Tigers traded a guy who projects as a #4 starter (#3 in a good year) for a guy who’s been essentially a #3-4 starter during his time with the M’s. Only the M’s keep him under club control for the next few years at a cost substantially less than the remaining 2 months of Washburn’s contract. And they get Robles as a nice throw in. And they don’t have to send a dime to Detroit.

    Washburn has been helped considerably by the M’s picking up Guti, Endy, and Langerhans (plus calling up Saunders). They’ve essentially been playing three CFs in the OF for most of Washburn’s starts. Only having one CF is going to diminish his numbers.

    That said, I’m willing to bet they’ll be close to what French has put up in his 23 IP, so it’s not like the Tigers got fleeced. On the whole, a pretty fair trade, good short term for the Tigers, good medium term for the Mariners.

    Comment by dw — July 31, 2009 @ 1:11 pm

  49. Yeah…. I can only assume that was a typo. Washburn is your quintessential flyballer.

    Comment by Robin — July 31, 2009 @ 1:11 pm

  50. Cool, trolling AND impersonating someone else.

    Comment by Teej — July 31, 2009 @ 1:16 pm

  51. Was wondering what the hell was going on. Haven’t visited the comments section on USSM in some time. Thought there must have been some sort of fallout.

    Comment by Sammy — July 31, 2009 @ 1:20 pm

  52. I couldn’t be sure if this was trolling or the driest sarcasm of all time… but you’re probably right.

    Comment by Robin — July 31, 2009 @ 1:23 pm

  53. Hi! This is very definitely not me, I just woke up.

    Comment by Jeff Nye — July 31, 2009 @ 1:36 pm

  54. I’m sorry, I just love people who put so much stock in these advanced statistics, and then in the same breath treat 200 Matt Joyce ABs and 35 Luke French IPs as quality input data. And then ignore 1800 IPs worth of data on Jarrod Washburn that say maybe FIP doesn’t correlate as well to his mildly unique way of pitching (lots of high fastballs, iirc).

    Good fit for Detroit, you wouldn’t want a flyball pitcher for the new Yankee Stadium but Comerica park is good for that. And French is just waiting to get creamed. He is showcasing excellent command right now, but once he gets 2 strikes he has no out pitch whatsoever. And I wouldn’t be surprised if the command thing was a one-year wonder type deal. Still, a useful piece. Robles is a lefty with a good fastball and a good low-level prospect. A lot of Tiger fans would probably value him more than French.

    So the trade is definitely a positive for the Ms, as Washburn is useless to them for the rest of the season, but I was expecting a better haul.

    Comment by The Fume — July 31, 2009 @ 1:36 pm

  55. Luke French > Boof Bonser. Case closed.

    Comment by Shush — July 31, 2009 @ 1:45 pm

  56. I’d just assumed this was a more Lookout Landing type sarcasm and moved on.

    Comment by Fresh Hops — July 31, 2009 @ 2:01 pm

  57. Yeah, I think a lot of those rumors were total BS, or at least amounted to working up the market a little. That Joba + Huges talk was nuts. So was that talk that the M’s might decide to resign Washburn. If you hear that smart GMs are demanding way too much for a player that has little to no real value to them, you can assume that this is just talk for the media.

    Comment by Fresh Hops — July 31, 2009 @ 2:05 pm

  58. i like this deal for both sides. i do think washburn is in for a slight statistical decline, but this can be prevented if the tigers support him with some strong outfield defense the same way the mariners did. granderson is great in center, but they would need to improve the corners.

    Comment by Raf — July 31, 2009 @ 2:20 pm

  59. My goodness the comment system here needs work.

    Comment by ThundaPC — July 31, 2009 @ 2:54 pm

  60. It’s back to Leonard Koppett’s quote in “The Thinking Fan’s Guide to Baseball”: “Current form is everything.” Jarrod Washburn, right now, leads the AL in WHIP – ahead of Grienke, Halladay, Beckett, Hernandez, and his new Tigers teammates Verlander and Jackson.

    Sure, we have ample evidence that Washburn’s not THAT good. But he’s clearly, for whatever reason, on a roll NOW, and that’s exactly what Detroit needs.

    As for Luke French, he’s a very large man who soft-tosses and throws sinkers, sliders, and cutters. He had four good starts before the Rangers’ offense exposed him. There’s potential there, but it’s low-ceiling potential.

    Good trade for Seattle (on the financial end of it), good trade for Detroit.

    Comment by Jason — July 31, 2009 @ 2:59 pm

  61. The hard part is, maybe you never know. If I get 100 people to flip 100 coins, I’m confident that a few people will tally 60+ heads and a few will tally 60+ tails. Are they better at getting the result they like, or have they been lucky for a sustained period of time?

    Comment by Wrightous — July 31, 2009 @ 3:11 pm

  62. The Tigers need a #3/#4 guy right now so the deal works for them. French doesn’t project to be a #3 or #4 starter. That’s his upside. It’s not a bad trade for the Mariners though. They got a couple of decent prospects for someone that’s not going to help beyond this year.

    Comment by Lee Panas — July 31, 2009 @ 4:02 pm

  63. Don’t be dissing Clete Thomas out in right. He’s pretty good. Admittedly the Tigers’ LF defense would probably have been improved if they went out and got Adam Dunn, but CF and RF are above average to great.

    Comment by JG — July 31, 2009 @ 4:07 pm

  64. Don’t you think it’s a tad early to declare French “just as good as Jarrod Washburn,” considering we’re working on like a 5 start sample size?

    I get that Washburn is an average pitcher, but French has 5 starts, and was effective in 3 of them. He’s got a long way to go to prove that he’s at a league-average level. I wonder if any of the people proclaiming “French = Washburn” have actually watched French pitch.

    Now, I’m not saying it’s a bad deal for Seattle. It’s a good deal for Seattle; Robles has good upside and French will probably hang around a big league rotation for a couple years. However, this is definitely a short-term, 2009 upgrade for the Tigers rotation.

    Comment by Nick — July 31, 2009 @ 5:15 pm

  65. No doubt. The Ms may have the best defensive outfield in baseball, but they can shag flies in Detroit too. I just hope Leyland’s smart enough to keep Thomas in the outfield when Jarrod is pitching.

    Comment by Nick — July 31, 2009 @ 5:22 pm

  66. The M’s were trying to get rid of Washburn for nothing last year in a pure salary dump. That they can get anything for him at this point is gravy. Thank goodness for another career walk year from Washburn (curious, that) and good bargaining skills by Zduriencik.

    Comment by joser — July 31, 2009 @ 6:04 pm

  67. Granderson is not the same as Guti, how can people keep saying that while post on Fangraphs. Go read their UZR stats, specially granderson’s terrible defense last year and replacement level defense this year.

    Comment by Jeff K — July 31, 2009 @ 6:35 pm

  68. Nice straw man. Yeah, the writers on Fangraphs probably don’t understand the concept of small sample size at all.

    “And French is just waiting to get creamed. He is showcasing excellent command right now, but once he gets 2 strikes he has no out pitch whatsoever. And I wouldn’t be surprised if the command thing was a one-year wonder type deal.”

    I love how you don’t seem to notice that you are describing Jarrod Washburn here as well.

    Comment by KWK — July 31, 2009 @ 7:05 pm

  69. Unfortunately you’re probably correct. Granderson hasn’t been great in the field in a couple years, I think it’s safe to call him something like 0<x<5 UZR/150 right now. It would be one thing if UZR never really cared for him that much and PMR and +/- always did and still do (I have no idea if they do or not, just making a point), but UZR LOVED him for 2 years then he fell off a cliff to averageness. I think we can safely say that currently Granderson is significantly worse than anyone from the Endy/Gutz/Ichiro! trio. Will be interesting to see how Wash does…

    Comment by Terminator X — July 31, 2009 @ 9:21 pm

  70. Interesting comments from Mariner fans…. I suspect if the M’s were ahead in the AL West some opinions would change. This trade addresses needs for both teams. Doesn’t anyone understand giving up excess players to a team in need for a rental player that can help maintain a playoff push?

    Comment by Tigers fan in WA — July 31, 2009 @ 11:52 pm

  71. Most Tigers fans are not expecting Washburn to be a top of the rotation guy. He is what he is: a dependable arm at the back of a rotation who will eat innings and give you a reasonable chance to win. There is a lot of value in that for a team that has a struggling Porcello and inconsistent Galaragga behind Jackson and Verlander. An ERA between 4 and 4.5 is and should be expected. And, that is fine. This was a good deal for Seattle and a good deal for Detroit.

    Comment by Scottwood — August 1, 2009 @ 12:47 am

  72. Washburn has outperformed his FIP in eight of the last nine years. He’s also someone who regularly beats the league average in HR/FB. I see the clear signs that he’s pitching far over his head this year (BABIP the most obvious), and his OF defense in Detroit is a major step down from what he enjoyed in Seattle, but as a middle-rotation guy, he’s a good add for the Tigers. The price was reasonable. So long as the Tigers don’t offer Washburn the arbitration cash cow, this is a decent move for them.

    Comment by lester bangs — August 1, 2009 @ 5:46 am

  73. The Tigers are strong defensively in center (Granderson) and right (Clete Thomas). They are weak in left (Raburn, Thames). I know Washburn is a fly ball pitcher but every pitcher induces some ground balls. The Tigers infield defense should help any pitcher. Comerica is not a big home run park so that won’t kill him either. Overall, Washburn won’t have the same advantages in Detroit as Seattle but the Tigers still provide a good environment for a pitcher.

    Comment by Lee Panas — August 1, 2009 @ 6:19 pm

  74. It seams to me all this site is concenrned with is how cheap a player is playing for… Maybe Detroit doesnt care about spending 3.5 mil more over the rest of the year if they actually win…

    Comment by Jeff — August 3, 2009 @ 2:27 pm

  75. French projects as nothing higher than a 5th starter TOPS! Having seen him in Toledo for 2 years, he is nothing more than a middle releiver / spot starter….

    The Tigers got someone who can help them make the playoffs… TIGERS WIN hands down…

    Comment by Jeff — August 3, 2009 @ 2:37 pm

  76. “Also, looking at career numbers for players in their mid to late 30s is a mistake. For example:

    Ken Griffey Jr has a career wOBA of .387. He’s a good major-league hitter.”

    Well, that’s not entirely accurate since you are talking about a position player compared to a pitcher. Often, pitchers age much better than hitters and using an extreme example like an over-40 Griffey is a little unfair (even if the peanut gallery loves it!).

    Funny you didn’t mention Raul Ibanez as your “for example…”

    Comment by BJ — August 3, 2009 @ 4:53 pm

  77. Granderson was hurt in 2008. His +/- By season are:
    +12/+12/+20/-11/+9 (partial – 2009)

    No dropoff there.

    UZR doesn’t account for shifts (adequately).

    Comment by BobbyMac — August 3, 2009 @ 5:56 pm

  78. Edwin Jackson is one of the five best pitchers in the AL this year, while the guy he was traded for a 26 year old minor leaguer, and the trade might be a wash? Really?

    Comment by Bill — August 4, 2009 @ 4:38 pm

  79. So do quite a few of the commenters.

    Comment by joser — August 20, 2009 @ 2:50 pm

  80. It’s funny reading all these comments after knowing what actually happened over the course of the rest of the year. Poor Detroit.

    Comment by jcummings — December 17, 2009 @ 2:33 pm

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