FanGraphs Baseball

Comments

RSS feed for comments on this post.

  1. Given the play of Will Middlebrooks is asking too much of him to give RF or LF a shot with Youk at 3B and Gonzo back at 1B?

    Comment by Chutley — May 22, 2012 @ 7:28 pm

  2. “For Lin to be worth playing, he’d need to save roughly 40 more runs in the outfield than Gonzalez per 150 games, or the difference between Adam Dunn and an average major league outfielder.”

    Honestly, if we weren’t talking about Camden Yard’s tiny right field, that might be entirely plausible.

    In Fenway’s right field, its probably likely. Lin is atleast a plus centerfielder with a cannon of an arm, so I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see him be a +15 or better RF. An Agon a -25 in Fenway’s right? wouldn’t surprise me.

    That being said, IMO, its definitely the right decision for tonight and tommorow afternoon.

    Comment by RC — May 22, 2012 @ 7:30 pm

  3. I hope Gonzo breaks his leg out there. What a horrible roster design if this is what you’re left with after a couple of injuries. I guess $200 million doesn’t buy what it used to.

    Comment by Sandy Kazmir — May 22, 2012 @ 7:49 pm

  4. A couple of injuries? You mean like Crawford, Ellsbury, Ross, Kalish, Darnell Mcdonald, and Sweeney? I’m all for using that 200 million to buy 8 Major League quality outfielders but most guys who are even halfway decent don’t want to rot 6 spots down on the depth chart playing for the Pawtucket Paw Sox. The only guys willing to do that are the Podsedniks of the world.

    Comment by James — May 22, 2012 @ 8:02 pm

  5. Such an ignorant response. One, they DO have other options, this is just the way to also field the best lineup. And secondly, any team would have to get creative after losing SIX, wait SEVEN now with Sweeney’s concussion, outfielders to the DL. Come on, man. There’s no way Boston could have foreseen getting SEVEN injured outfielders.

    SEVEN, man.

    Comment by Sam — May 22, 2012 @ 8:02 pm

  6. If it’s that bad they could always just move A-Gon to the short left field (imagine him playing balls off that wall) and put Nava in right. I doubt Nava would be anything above below-average but he should have better range than A-Gon and /hopefully/ more offensive potential than Lin

    Comment by James — May 22, 2012 @ 8:05 pm

  7. Seems like trading Josh Reddick was a great idea. A thousand monkey’s with a trillion dollars couldn’t have constructed a worse team.

    Comment by Sandy Kazmir — May 22, 2012 @ 8:27 pm

  8. as long as A Gon gets outfield eligibility. He’s got 3 more games to start and he actually starts hitting ill be happy.

    Comment by the nelz — May 22, 2012 @ 8:32 pm

  9. Read the Sox didn’t want to move Middlebrooks around. Can’t say I disagree with them, it’d be tough for a kid to pick that up midseason. (Especially after not having ever played the outfield at any level before.)

    Comment by junker23 — May 22, 2012 @ 8:42 pm

  10. Sandy, sandy, sandy.. I dont know who your team is. But, I challenge you to find 8 eligible OF that your team can use that are currently rostered on the ML team, or in its AAA level. Feel free to use positional flexibility as long as you field a full team. Cant do it, huh. BoSox did well, considering that they had even 8.

    Comment by Cidron — May 22, 2012 @ 8:57 pm

  11. @Cidron, how about I construct an entire team of DL’d players:

    C: Jose Lobaton/Robinson Chirinos
    1B: Brandon Allen
    2B: Jeff Keppinger
    3B: Evan Longoria
    LF: Sam Fuld
    CF: Desmond Jennings
    RF: Brandon Guyer

    SP: Jeff Niemann
    RP: Kyle Farnsworth

    The Red Sox aren’t the only team that is beat up and having to dip into the well of replacement players, doesn’t mean they should up the injury risk by playing Carlos Pena in RF.

    Comment by Sandy Kazmir — May 22, 2012 @ 9:10 pm

  12. Ok Sandy, 8 position players on the DL, but that’s spread out over the whole diamond. That wouldn’t cause you to consider Pena in left. Have some more respect.

    Comment by Pato San — May 22, 2012 @ 9:24 pm

  13. sandy: hey everdouchestick, you wanna troll the most recent red sox thread or should i?

    everdiso: nah man, i got the last one. you go ahead.

    sandy: thanks dude. stupid red sox. i cant believe they dont at least have 10 major league quality outfielders.

    everdiso: yeah they’re sooooo lucky with all those injuries cuz now they get to play daniel nava. they get all the breaks.

    sandy: i know right… hey dude our orgs are as good as the yankees and red sox, right?

    everdiso: omg totally.

    Comment by sooted72 — May 22, 2012 @ 9:29 pm

  14. Why would I respect a terrible idea? You don’t want to expose a rookie to embarrassment by playing RF so you run out a less capable player? I hope that A-Gon gets hurt and the decision to play guys out of position is seen as the latest scapegoat for an under-achieving team stocked with over-paid ball players that have zero positional flexibility.

    Comment by Sandy Kazmir — May 22, 2012 @ 9:34 pm

  15. Sandy,

    The issue is not that the Rays don’t have as many injured players as the Red Sox, it is that the Red Sox have so many at the same position. Crawford, Ellsbury, Ross, Sweeney, Kalish, McDonald, and Repko are seven of their best 8 outfielders. Therefore, their starting outfield includes their 9th and 10th best options. Byrd, Nava, and Podsednik/Lin is the OF if you don’t use Gonzalez out their.

    What would the Rays’ outfield look like if in addition to Fuld, Jennings, Guyer, and Allen that Zobrist, Upton, and Rich Thompson were also hurt at the same time? You would have Joyce, Stephen Vogt, and Hideki Matsui. I’d say that is pretty similar to what the Red Sox have out there right now.

    Comment by Pete — May 22, 2012 @ 9:36 pm

  16. You’re an embarrassment to your family. They knew Crawford and Kalish were hurt coming in to the year and they knew that Ellsbury was made of glass. So in their infinite wisdom they traded an up and coming solid outfielder for nothing, signed an old guy, and rolled with minor leaguers McDonald, Nava, and Repko. That’s poor roster construction and they have no one to blame but themselves.

    The Rays have yet to see their on paper outfield of Jennings/Upton/Joyce for a full week due to injuries and have seen replacements Brandons Allen and Guyer succumb to injury, yet they don’t miss a beat because Joyce can play both corners, Upton and Jennings were able to cover for each other without missing a beat in center, and Zobrist can play a very good outfield instead of a great 2B. Having a play, the Rays have situated themselves so that they don’t have to cry about how injuries are crushing their team and they don’t have to risk further injury by playing a 1B in the outfield.

    I hope that dump of a stadium collapses so we can also hear about how nobody saw a rat-infested structure on it’s last legs possibly crumbling much like the shit product that gets put on the field.

    Comment by Sandy Kazmir — May 22, 2012 @ 9:43 pm

  17. I agree with Sandy. The fact that the Red Sox have only scored 50 more runs than the Rays with their top 8 outfielders on the DL is a clear sign of what a terrible team they are.

    Comment by Hoof — May 22, 2012 @ 9:54 pm

  18. “they knew that Ellsbury was made of glass”

    I mean I guess it’s obvious enough on its own, but this is where you really give away the fact that you’re just another hack making things up as he goes to suit his purpose. The kid broke his ribs in a full-speed collision with Adrian Beltre’s knee. You know – you absolutely, definitely know – that that isn’t a sign of frailty of or injury risk. You’re just lying to suit your purpose here.

    There’s nothing wrong with informed criticism of the Red Sox. There’s nothing wrong with blindly hating them either, really. What’s tedious is the way you dress up your blind hatred as informed criticism. You aren’t fooling anyone, just wasting everyone’s time.

    Comment by NS — May 22, 2012 @ 10:41 pm

  19. Considering how slow Adrian Gonzalez is and RF isn’t that easy to play, I don’t see how much worse can it be to move Middlebrooks to LF as somebody mentioned above.

    Comment by MadMonk — May 22, 2012 @ 10:45 pm

  20. Well, to be fair to Sandy, as much as he is trolling, Joyce is much, much better than anyone the Sox are running out there

    Comment by YanksFanInBeantown — May 22, 2012 @ 11:08 pm

  21. Any comments about reddick are crap, the sox got sweeny in that trade so we’d still have trouble finding our 10th outfielder. Middlebrooks should stay out of outfield so his development doesnt get screwed up (he should concentrate on King less not learning to play a new position), our future is more important than this season.

    Comment by strike23 — May 22, 2012 @ 11:45 pm

  22. How many MLB-caliber outfielders is Boston supposed to have around? That’s a serious question. You seem very sure that this is all some fault of the Red Sox’s front office, but.. yeah, seven outfields on the DL. Are they supposed to have ten of them, in case numbers 1 through 7 on the depth chart all go down at one?

    Comment by NBarnes — May 23, 2012 @ 12:22 am

  23. Well they came into the year with three “MLB calibre” players if you want to consider Sweeney and Ross as one player since they’re both best used in a platoon situation. Also, it was no secret that Crawford was going to miss a month at a minimum and that Jacoby Ellsbury was going to get hurt at some point. I don’t consider Repko, Nava, McDonald, or Kalish to be “MLB calibre” players. Do you? What’s the difference between Lin/Pods and that pile of trash? They’re all essentially replacement level so it doesn’t matter if you consider them your 6th best or 10th best.

    Look, I get that you guys are frustrated that you’ve been in last place all year and you just got two-hit by Matusz, but at some point you’ve got to stop crying about your injuries and start to look at the fact that your team was fatally flawed from the get go. A real GM wouldn’t rely on firing people or pointing fingers. A firesale should have happened in the offseason to at least get some value back in the system instead of trading Lowrie and Reddick for two relievers that have made a grand total of two relief appearances this year. Go ahead and fire Valentine, I’m sure that will solve all of your problems.

    Comment by Sandy Kazmir — May 23, 2012 @ 1:03 am

  24. Congratulations Sandy, you may very well be the dumbest person ever to post on this website. I really liked your earlier list of the all the players on the DL for the rays. Losing Longoria does suck, but the other players you listed ( I’m not counting Jennings as it looks like he will miss a total of 2 weeks) were projected by ZIPS to post around 7 WAR combined. So yeah, that rash of injuries to your replacement level players is definitely the same as the Red Sox losing Ellsburry, Crawford, and Ross. Three guys who in a full season would have about a 40% chance of producing twice as much value as the 7 players on the shelf for Tampa.

    Comment by SDiaz — May 23, 2012 @ 1:31 am

  25. Sandy, you might be just about the dumbest person on the planet. For starters, it is a totally horrible thing to wish harm on a player. What has Adrian Gonzalez done to deserve your ire? He deserves to get hurt for what? That you would say this tells me you are not a true baseball fan. I’d also guess you’re a bnadwagon Rays fan, since your knowledge and attitude towards baseball is this bad.

    So to compund the stupididty of wishing harm on an opposing player for playing out of position, how do you back it up? You ignore the Red Sox’ plight, and pick a completely different injury issue. Yeah, the Rays have had those guys all hurt, but Allen, Keppinger, Fuld, and Guyer aren’t even starters. On top of THAT, you picked injuries at 8 different positions. No team in baseball lacks a backup for a position. If you have 8 players get hurt at different positions, you have replacements.

    What we have with the Red Sox is something MUCH different. They have seven OUTFIELDERS hurt. That ignores any injuries at any other position, such as the loss of Youkilis for a time. That also means they had all 3 starters hurt, thier backups, and a third-string OF. They had two lineups of OFs go down..

    Do you want a fair comparison? It would be if the Rays lost Jennings, Upton, Joyce, Fuld, Guyer, Zobrist, and Rich Thompson go down with injuries. Yeah, a no-name guy like Rich Thompson would have to go down with an injury to put the Rays in a situation similar to Boston’s.

    However, guess what? Tampa Bay has only had FOUR guys play the OF for more than 10 games, yet they were dumb enough to put Brandon Allen (a player MUCH worse than Adrian Gonzalez) out there for 7 games. By your logic of wanting Gonzalez hurt, you’re happy that Brandon Allen got hurt playing in the outfield, right?

    I’d guess no, because you’re some moronic bandwagon Rays fan who likes to see players get hurt.

    Comment by Keith — May 23, 2012 @ 1:55 am

  26. PLEASE DON’T FEED THE TROLLS.

    Comment by Brandon T — May 23, 2012 @ 2:30 am

  27. Without looking at data, I believe the injury risk is much higher for an outfielder than a first baseman. Compounded with a player playing out of position, how much has the injury risk increased for Gonzalez? I would imagine it is %300 – %500 more likely.

    When Valentine was doing ESPN, he complimented Gonzalez on being a smart player for not risking injury on any given play. Assuming Valentine was correct in his assessment, do we have any information to suggest that the injury risk is low enough to make the concerns only about defensive value?

    I love watching players playing out of position – few things are more entertaining than watching an infielder pitch in the 17th inning. I just wonder if management is prepared for the backlash that would come in the event of incident.

    Comment by Røark — May 23, 2012 @ 3:46 am

  28. Can I address the “Ellsbury is made of glass” comment? Dude, you’re, quite simply put, wrong.

    Jacoby Ellsbury Games Played Totals
    2006 – 136 (Between A+, AA, and AFL)
    2007- 138 (AA, AAA, and MLB)
    2008 – 145
    2009 – 153
    2010 – 27
    2011 – 158

    The missed time in 2010 is an outlier, and it’s not like he’s doing things to himself. The injury this season was a freak incident. It’s not Andrew Bailey hurting himself with a shampoo bottle.

    Sandy, I’ll consider your continued trolling and idiotic comments as an apology.

    Comment by Jim — May 23, 2012 @ 3:52 am

  29. The only thing stupid here is your utter inability to grasp any of the points that I’ve made whether I’m choosing to be eloquent or not. Your front office deserves to be punished for choosing to use the wrong process. As Paul DePodesta would say and injury to Adrian Gonazalez would be poetic justice for choosing bad process and then getting bad results.

    The second point, and this is really where you show just how stupid you are by refusing to acknowledge replacement value, here of all places, is that there is not much difference between the majority of these guys. They’re all replacement value with different names. It doesn’t matter if the guy was penciled in as the 6th outfielder or the 10th outfielder because you would expect similar production from all of them. The only difference is the value that you attribute to name through emotion or memory or whichever guy you wish was banging your wife.
    For instance, we can use Sky’s WAR calculator and Dan’s Zips projections to get reasonable estimate for season WAR for each of these guys. Let’s assume that all will get 600 PA’s. We’ll look at the CF guys first because their positional value is different than the rest:

    wOBA/BR/Fld/WAR/Name
    .357/.10/-.07/3.8/Ellsbury
    .279/.15/.50/0.3/Repko
    .323/.10/.04/2.1/Byrd (I notice he has conveniently been absent from all discussion. Considering the sordid and ugly history involving your city and men of his color I guess I shouldn’t be surprised)
    .291/.20/.57/1.0/Lin

    So Mr. Glass profiles as an All-Star and Byrd proves to be a very capable fill in while Lin and Repko profile as somewhere between Replacement and Niche, though this is over 600 PAs so this gets extrapolated a bit more than they would be expected to provide. Let’s move on to the corners:
    .340/.30/1.0/3.1/Crawford
    .320/.15/.22/1.3/Sweeney
    .325/.00/.07/1.3/Ross
    .320/.00/.00/1.0/Kalish
    .304/.00/.05/0.2/Nava
    .300/-.10/.35/0.1/McDonald
    .296/.3/-.57/-0.5/Podsednik

    As stated, coming into the season you knew that Crawford was going to miss a month AT A MINIMUM and that Kalish would likely miss the entire first half. Ellsbury is a starter and a good one when he can stay away from the firewater and keep himself on the field. That leaves Sweeney and Ross and the the rest range from Pods’s cover-your-eyes bad -.5 WAR to the 1.0 WAR expected from Lin. Good on the them for admitting that trading Reddick was a huge mistake and going out and getting Byrd, but the difference between expected 4th OF Ross at 1.3 and most of the other options is around a win at most.

    You have no understanding of replacement value if you think there is a huge drop from 5th OF to 10th OF on this team and that has more to do with the low expectations at the top due to poor roster construction and what can only be described as arrogance. Jason Repko and Cody Ross getting hurt isn’t the reason your precious team is, and has been all season, in last place. Poor roster construction from a green GM and arrogance are the reason this team is in last place and putting your prize pig in RF when he can barely run to first defies logic in it’s stupidity. Throw Middlebrooks out there in LF, whatever corner OF that hasn’t stubbed their toe in RF, and let Youk/Gonzo slide in in the corner infield where they belong. Your best hitter is being asked to do something he has never done before that could lead to a higher incidence of injury. If Middlebrooks gets hurt or under-performs then it gives the ammo to send him back to AAA that they’re looking for, but if Gonzo gets hurt out there your season is surely over with your team never climbing higher than 3rd. Congrats and enjoy your high draft pick.

    Comment by Sandy Kazmir — May 23, 2012 @ 4:05 am

  30. Seven games this year and getting hurt on a late and dirty slide tells me everything I need to know. On the bright side, at least Reid Brignac made a contribution at the ML level this year. Most likely his last. Gonna be telling his grand kids the story about how a hothead ball player tried to saw him off so he did the natural thing and buried him.

    Comment by Sandy Kazmir — May 23, 2012 @ 4:13 am

  31. Sandy, you moron, I’m a Cubs fan. Before you make a crack on that, I know they suck and I’m fine with it.

    And of COURSE we’re talking about replacement-level players. We’re at the NUMBER EIGHT outfielders here. These guys are supposed to be fringe bench/AAA guys, not regular MLB starters. If you’re expecting every team to have five ABOVE-AVERAGE outfielders, then you don’t understand the term above-average. You can’t have every position start and back up with an above-average player; it’s not possible. You call the process wrong, but an outfield of Crawford, Ellsbury, and Sweeney would have been an above-average one on offense and a stellar one on defense.

    Even without Crawford, it would have been above-average defensively and average offensively because Ellsbury can be THAT good. Without Ellsbury, you’re talking about losing all 3 starters. You point me to a team with 3 above-average OFs on the bench. Cody Ross was doing well, but he got hurt. Byrd came in and did well at the start, but you can only expect so much from what amounts to their #5 OF at age 34.

    You’re using the dumbest logic ever in this, that a team should be 5-deep, if not 10-deep in backups at one aspect of the game (outfield). Teams roster 4, maybe 5 outfielders. All other options are minor league players, not above-average major leaguers.

    If you think any single team in the league would be able to field an above-average outfield after 7 DL stints, you’re just stupid. We all know McDonald, Repko, Nava, Ross, Podsednik, and so on are below-average, average at best. That’s because they’re supposed to be #5 OFs and down, after Crawford, Ellsbury, Sweeney, and Byrd. You don’t plan for this because planning for this is NOT a smart idea. To plan for 7 OF injuries would be to gut talent from the starting lineup to better the minor league system while you’re trying to contend for a ring.

    Stop being stupid and shut up, PLEASE.

    Comment by Keith — May 23, 2012 @ 5:14 am

  32. Oh, and another thing:

    While you’re ripping on the Red Sox for this patchwork outfield and saying they prepared poorly for 7 simultaneous DL stints and saying players deserve to break their legs, know this:

    Boston’s OF WAR isn’t even that bad. Their OF ranks 16th in baseball, 0.1 WAR behind the Yankees’ OF of Granderson, Ibanez, Gardner, Swisher, and Jones. Boston’s offense has an overall WAR higher than that of Tampta’s meaning the pitching is more of the problem than the offense. So what you’re stupidly spewing nonsensical garbage about isn’t even right.

    You jump on Boston for not having 10 above-average OFs on-hand, yet they have been playing 10 OFs and are average. What more would you like from them, flaming carthwheels while skydiving? They’re using scrubs and surviving, relative to the league’s OF WAR.

    Comment by Keith — May 23, 2012 @ 5:27 am

  33. “I challenge you to find 8 eligible OF that your team can use that are currently rostered on the ML team, or in its AAA level.”

    I’m not Sandy, and he doesn’t seem very pleasant, but the Twins can do this without even resorting to AAA:

    Josh Willingham, Denard Span, Ben Revere, Ryan Doumit, Trevor Plouffe, Darin Mastroianni, Erik Komatsu, and Joe Mauer.

    Of course, the Twins are terrible.

    Comment by Tim — May 23, 2012 @ 6:20 am

  34. Not sure why you’re still not IP banned.

    Comment by my jays are red — May 23, 2012 @ 7:23 am

  35. An adorably weak evasion. Your original claim was that the Red Sox should have known Ellsbury was an injury risk at the start of the season. In the face of the data proving that claim ridiculous, you now try to use this year’s incident to suggest that they should have known – before it happened – that it would have happened.

    Comment by NS — May 23, 2012 @ 7:53 am

  36. I knew it would happen.

    Comment by Swami — May 23, 2012 @ 8:13 am

  37. Some people are so filled with hatred and vitriol that they can’t see anything objectively. And then, as a result, they cheer for someone to get hurt.

    Comment by chuckb — May 23, 2012 @ 8:15 am

  38. I suppose I should be glad that you’re taking out all this venom on the internet rather than on your family or children or the other drivers on the road.

    I hope you’re able to find something in your life that gives you some joy. No one deserves to be this angry and this full of hatred. Go read a book or watch a movie or play a game with some friends or family. Do something to bring yourself some pleasure. It’ll do you tons of good.

    Comment by chuckb — May 23, 2012 @ 8:21 am

  39. and so is Zobrist, but the Rays don’t have 8 of them.

    Comment by chuckb — May 23, 2012 @ 8:22 am

  40. “Any comments about reddick are crap, the sox got sweeny in that trade so we’d still have trouble finding our 10th outfielder.”

    Truth. But facts only ruin a good screed.

    Comment by chuckb — May 23, 2012 @ 8:23 am

  41. Wow Scott Kazmir’s wife is PISSED!

    Comment by Tyler — May 23, 2012 @ 8:54 am

  42. It’s not the offensive difference between Lin and Youkilis that matters – it’s the offensive difference between Lin and Middlebrooks. Youk is going to play every day; the only question is where. The Red Sox could go with Middlebrooks at third, Youkilis at first and Gonzalez in right (as they are) or Youkilis at third, Gonzalez at first and Lin in right.

    There’s defense to consider at all three positions. Middlebrooks isn’t a great defensive third baseman, but he’s almost certainly better than Youkilis at this stage in his career. Gonzalez is an elite defender at first, but given Youk’s history at the position he probably isn’t a huge downgrade. The big gap, of course, is between Gonzalez and Lin in right.

    Essentially, the Red Sox have decided that the offensive upgrade of having Middlebrooks instead of Lin in the lineup plus the defensive upgrade of having Middlebrooks instead of Youkilis at third outweighs the defensive downgrades at first and in right field. I think they’re right, but the margin isn’t as big as this article indicates.

    Comment by Ian R. — May 23, 2012 @ 9:04 am

  43. Sandy does have a point in replacement level. Once you get enough injuries at one position that you’re playing replacement level players, another injury doesn’t hurt so much, as you can always find another similar guy.

    Lets be real. AGon isn’t going to the outfield only because of the last in the string of outfield injuries. He’s going because the Sox want Middlebrooks, Youk, Gonzalez, and Pedroia all in the lineup.

    Comment by Whelk — May 23, 2012 @ 9:08 am

  44. So is Sandy a Rays fan? Didn’t know that the Rays had fans!

    Comment by GonzoFlyBall — May 23, 2012 @ 9:09 am

  45. The trash from D Rays Bay is spreading. This jackass has been acting like a turd for years.

    Comment by Sean O — May 23, 2012 @ 9:15 am

  46. I aplaud Adrian Gonzalez for beeing a good team player and going to the outfield in this emergency situation. He may be a defensive liability but at least he is doing what the team wants him to do.

    Comment by Hurtlockertwo — May 23, 2012 @ 9:59 am

  47. I don’t buy it. Adrian hasn’t really ever played the position at any level, either.

    Middlebrooks is younger, faster, and A LOT cheaper than AGon. He’s got a plus arm and great instincts at third. Middlebrooks has a much higher upside in the outfield, and there’s a lot less on the line if he gets hurt due to playing out of position.

    Unless they think Youk is an injury risk at third, there’s no sense in putting Adrian in the OF instead of Middlebrooks.

    Comment by J — May 23, 2012 @ 10:23 am

  48. Wow, sandy managed to make me look like less of a dick. impressive.

    hidden in all this mess, though, are actually a couple of legit points IMO.

    1) the only OF injuries that matter are the 4 to ellsbury, crawford, ross and sweeney.

    the rest are all replacememt players. there’s no real difference between an OF of kalish/mcdonald/repko or one of nava/byrd/lin/pods.

    And really, all the current guys could get injured and it wouldn’t be hard to find similar players to replace them for peanuts.

    so really, the “7 injured OF” thing is a bit of a red herring – the issue is the 4 injuries to the projected roster OF.

    (Whether a roster with crawford and ellsbury should have planned better for injuries, and whether those injuries are covering a likely less than expected healthy contribution from those two, and whether ross’s injury is allowing sox fans to ignore that his performance has been a huge bit of positive luck for the team so far, are all arguably legit but secondary points).

    2) the real issue here is trying to get all of WMB, youk, and gonzo into the lineup.

    if all four regular OF were healthy, then one of WMB or youk would sit, but the question of whether one of the three should play the OF would be there even if the sox only had 2 OF injuries – even with only 2 injuries, the question would whether to play a replacement level OF or.whether to put one of the 3 corner guys out there instead.

    so again, all those injuries are kind of besides the point.

    the only real question here IMO is whether WMB and youk can hit well enough to make it worth having both their bats in the lineup.

    oh and IMO WMB is the only one of the three that has any business playing in the OF, though i guess the fenway LF might let them hide gonzo out there.

    Comment by everdiso — May 23, 2012 @ 11:08 am

  49. That’s not the point though. They don’t want to move Middlebrooks around BECAUSE he is young and developing. Moving a guy around at this stage could stunt his development at the plate if all of a sudden he gets yanked out of his comfort zone and has to learn a new position on the fly. Of course he is faster and more agile than Adrian Gonzalez, but Gonzalez is a vet who has had years to master his plate approach and learn the major league game so he’ll hit wherever you put him.

    Comment by Grant — May 23, 2012 @ 11:18 am

  50. Now this is the second time in 3 days someone on here has used to word vitriol in response to a trolling comment. Are you the same guy or is this word making a comeback? (from like 1700′s England)

    Comment by Grant — May 23, 2012 @ 11:21 am

  51. Rays fans should not call any stadium a dump.

    Comment by taite — May 23, 2012 @ 11:35 am

  52. Wait, did a TB fan just call Fenway a “dump of a stadium”? (note: Fenway Park isn’t a stadium).

    You just joined Luke Scott on the “maybe we should realize that we play in the consensus worse park in MLB and so are in no position to make fun of anyone else’s park” team. Good job!

    Comment by redsoxu571 — May 23, 2012 @ 12:08 pm

  53. Of course, any organization can only stock so many “replacement level” OFers before it starts to run out of roster spots, and eventually you have to do what Boston is doing…play players out of position, or play BELOW “replacement level” players.

    So these injuries are certainly adding up.

    Comment by redsoxu571 — May 23, 2012 @ 12:10 pm

  54. “Seven games this year and getting hurt on a late and dirty slide tells me everything I need to know.” That you’re biased and/or stupid? Indeed…

    At this point, you’re doing nothing more than spewing nonsense. Forget some made-up claim that Ellsbury was being hotheaded or dirty…you’re a complete lowlife piece of internet trash. And that’s a fact! Luckily, you won’t be worth noting to anyone’s grandkids…

    Comment by redsoxu571 — May 23, 2012 @ 12:13 pm

  55. There are a couple of things that are screaming at me here:

    1) You really went into the season expecting Ellsbury to not only get hurt, but be placed on the 60 day DL at some point this season? The guy has only been hurt once in his career, and it was a cracked rib 2 years ago. There is no reason to expect him to go on the DL, and if you did, conversely there is no one you shouldn’t expect to hit the DL.

    2) Kalish was always considered far and away better than those OF you listed, including Reddick, which is why they traded him away. He’s consistently posted solid BB/K rates in the minors since being drafted, and in ’09 and ’10 at AA and AAA, at ages 21 and 22 and covering 780 PA, he posted a combined wOBA of .386. Since 2010 he has been the Red Sox plan for RF, over any other OF in the system, and it doesn’t look like that has changed yet.

    Comment by George — May 23, 2012 @ 12:26 pm

  56. @Hoof- “I agree with Sandy. The fact that the Red Sox have only scored 50 more runs than the Rays with their top 8 outfielders on the DL is a clear sign of what a terrible team they are.”

    Firstly, loosing multiple players at multiple positions is worse than losing 8 (basically 2 positions currently) outfielders. In addition, the Rays wRC+ is 111, compared to the Red Sox’s 110. Thank Gawd for Fenway and all the runs it produces.

    Comment by makeitRayn — May 23, 2012 @ 12:35 pm

  57. “Oh, the ironing is delicious…”

    Comment by Bartholomew J. Simpson — May 23, 2012 @ 1:11 pm

  58. LOUD NOISES!!!!!!

    Comment by Randy — May 23, 2012 @ 1:20 pm

  59. I would have hoped Scott Kazmir could have come up with a better pseudonym, but I understand why he’s mad at the world.

    Comment by ODawg — May 23, 2012 @ 1:28 pm

  60. You’re calling the racist card because we didn’t include Bryd in the OF depth chart? You’re argument was how much depth the Front Office had at the beginning of the season, Byrd was acquired mid-season as a result of the injuries, so he need not be included since, as your argument would go, he wouldn’t need to be traded for had they had more depth. I can’t believe you just dropped the racist card because of that.

    Comment by James — May 23, 2012 @ 1:34 pm

  61. As a Rays fan myself, I am embarrassed.

    Comment by cobradc23 — May 23, 2012 @ 1:54 pm

  62. There is no way Boston would play AGon in right field at Fenway. Maybe on the road in some smaller right fields, but they would never put him out there at Fenway. If he plays in the OF at Fenway there is no chance it is anywhere but LF.

    Comment by Joe — May 23, 2012 @ 3:52 pm

  63. “and whether ross’s injury is allowing sox fans to ignore that his performance has been a huge bit of positive luck for the team so far”

    Once again, your insatiable desire to tear down the Red Sox makes you look foolish in your attempt to appear objective. You admit that all of the Red Sox current healthy OF are replacement level players. Is Cody Ross a .370 wOBA hitter? Probably not, although we know what Fenway can do for RHH. Is he a replacement level player? No question he is not. Therefore, his injury hurts the team.

    But I guess his injury allows everdiso to point out his overpeformance and ignore underperformers like, you know, Gonzalez AKA their best hitter.

    Comment by Tim — May 23, 2012 @ 4:08 pm

  64. I also love this “with Crawford and Ellsbury they should have planned better” nonsense. Let’s ignore for a moment that thinking those two are injury prone is obviously absurd.

    How many teams in baseball have 5 or 6 above-replacement level OFs on their 40 man roster? Most teams would be happy with 2. The Red Sox have 4, and they’re all hurt. That’s not bad roster construction. That’s Everdiso’s retarded anti-Red Sox Jihad logic in full force yet again.

    Comment by Tim — May 23, 2012 @ 4:13 pm

  65. There sure are a lot of thumbs downs in these comments..

    Comment by Eric — May 24, 2012 @ 12:19 am

  66. I’m sorry, but that’s a load of crap. Moving him around the field isn’t going to do a damned thing to his approach at the plate. Unless he’s got the fragile mentality you don’t want a professional sports team in the first place, it’s not going to make a lick of difference.

    Valentine has hinted that he feels the same way, but he’s yet to get the go-ahead from Cherington.

    “That being said, I think he’s a pretty –– again small sample –– but my being around him is he’s a pretty mature baseball guy. He’s not going to be flustered by a lot of things. He’s more fleet. He runs a little better than a lot of third baseman, which might give him a little upside. It’s just a little different.”

    Comment by J — May 24, 2012 @ 1:17 am

  67. The Red Sox haven’t decided on anything, it’s day to day.

    Given his one obvious limitation, Gonzales has been slick in RF. If this guy gets injured it is probably going to be getting into a cab or getting out of bed. He’s too slow and too smart to get into much trouble. And no, they are not playing him in Fenway under any circumstances.

    Nava is the nobody’s nobody, but he is a serious student of hitting and has learned a few tricks to keep him in the show, like hitting the first pitch if it is a cookie but otherwise running counts, taking walks, an OBP of two thousand, learning from his past experience that that singles aren’t likely to bring him playing time but doubles will, and bringing the most consistent approach in the lineup up to the plate with the proverbial runner on third etc. Every manager in the game is going to kiss your ass for that. Too bad about the arm. He is not playing right field with that noodle. And btw, Gonzales has a gun.

    The Sox have just as many important decisions yet to be made on the bump as well. Bard is going back in the pen without a doubt, but where? They ought to go with a three man rotation with Bard and Buchholz in the pen, and run the entire bullpen out for the 4th and 5th starters. Which, between Buchholz and Bard they have been doing anyway, except they will not have to spot five runs.

    I question whether Elsbury or Crawford will be back this year. In these peculiar circumstances, if Middlebrooks continues to hit he has to stick, and Aviles will be available for the outfield when the Cuban is called up. Which is probably before the break.

    Calling the shots for this team is not for the faint hearted. Teo Epstein is an idiot. You Cubs fans getting second thoughts yet?

    Comment by james wilson — May 24, 2012 @ 2:21 am

  68. This is really the key point.

    With the shuffling around it’s easy to think it is AGon vs Lin on offense and defense… but there is no scenario AGon is not playing.

    This needs to be viewed like bullpen chaining…. Lin would be supplanting the low man on the totem pole – which I think is Middlebrooks (assuming Youk plays over Middlebrooks)

    While Middlebrooks has been hitting well, he has a 3.6% walk rate and a >30% K rate and a .380 BABIP. While he’s obviously better than Lin offensively, when his #’s regress, I’m not sure it’s clear the delta between Lin and AGon in RF is less than the delta between Lin and Middlebrooks at the plate. (I don’t think Middlebrooks vs Youk at 3rd and AGon vs Youk at 1st are that big of a difference)

    Comment by Tom — May 24, 2012 @ 7:01 am

  69. I think this is the first Fangraphs troll-spree I’ve seen that’s actually funny.

    I DO want to see AGon attempt a RF assist. Just because.

    (Also, because assists are a thing of sheer beauty.)

    Comment by BX — May 24, 2012 @ 2:04 pm

  70. But while the concussion was a fluke and freak injury, Sweeney has an extensive injury history and was coming off knee surgery, and expecting Sweeney to not get hurt over the course of a season would’ve been bad foresight to begin with. Bad process, bad results.

    Comment by BX — May 24, 2012 @ 6:19 pm

Leave a comment

Line and paragraph breaks automatic, e-mail address never displayed, HTML allowed: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>


Close this window.

0.208 Powered by WordPress