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  1. That headline is two words too long, and I think you misspelled the third…

    Comment by Haterade — June 20, 2012 @ 1:08 pm

  2. In parsing your joke, I think I came up with the wrong new spelling for “bucks”.

    Comment by Well-Beered Englishman — June 20, 2012 @ 1:14 pm

  3. So the fact that Guthrie has a 9.53 ERA at home and a 4.70 ERA away is just a coincidence? I can believe there’s more to it than just the home run factor of Coors Field. Does the high altitude maybe influence how pitches move? Maybe different combinations of ‘stuff’ work better at altitude than at sea level?

    Comment by Andrew — June 20, 2012 @ 1:40 pm

  4. Breaking balls generally depend on airflow to create movement. With the thinner air in Denver, it stands to reason that a pitcher will get less movement on his pitches.

    Comment by Big Daddy V — June 20, 2012 @ 1:51 pm

  5. yeah, my first response to the comment was “well, that doesn’t seem relevant”

    Comment by juan pierres mustache — June 20, 2012 @ 2:34 pm

  6. I’ve always seen him as a bullpen pitcher

    Comment by Matty Brown — June 20, 2012 @ 3:29 pm

  7. You can’t compare Guthrie to Hudson or Lidle or anyone else moving from AL to NL. Not only was the game different back then, with different competition, but Coors Field is a very unique park. It’s really quite obvious why he sucks so much: Coors Field. It’s essentially a graveyard for pitchers – not because there are so many home runs hit, but because pitches get significantly less movement. Not only does that affect home starts, but road starts, though not as much, because they have to pitch so differently.

    Also, for some reason, it seems like the home runs have really picjed up this year at Coors – to the point some people have questioned whether the humidor is broken.

    Comment by Andrew — June 20, 2012 @ 3:47 pm

  8. Not gonna’ lie, it took me like 10 minutes to figure out you didn’t mean the dirtier word.

    Comment by Eric Seidman — June 20, 2012 @ 4:31 pm

  9. There was an article written last year or the year before on why Carlos Gonzalez is horrible on the road and the conclusions was fastball movement. Breaking balls behave similar in CO vs. other parks, it’s fastballs that are most affected.

    Comment by Jake — June 20, 2012 @ 5:50 pm

  10. Found the synopsis, looks like the original article was deleted somehow – http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/newsstand/discussion/carlos_gonzalez_god_on_the_mountain

    Comment by Jake — June 20, 2012 @ 5:52 pm

  11. Completely agree. Guthrie is NOT a Coors pitcher (throws way too many breaking balls). And his pitching adjustments this year (throwing 6% MORE breaking balls in a year when he is now pitching at Coors half the time) IMO explain much of his troubles. He’s trying to adjust to the new environment – but no one on the Rockies pitching staff themselves actually understands the pitching environment at Coors.

    I do agree with moving him to the bullpen. More appearances at home and on the road will lead to more information faster for the Rockies about how best to use him going forward. Personally, I think they will figure out that he is a road pitcher for us – and he will then rejoin the starting rotation – only on the road – and get his mojo back because he will no longer have to force a mental adjustment.

    Comment by jfree — June 20, 2012 @ 6:41 pm

  12. reply to jake — that article is false. Breaking balls are the most effected by Coors. It doesn’t show up on pitching f/x maps because pitch f/x algorithms use “standard” physics assumptions (ie air density) to map their data. The fact is that Rockies pitchers have (for years now) thrown breaking balls at a different target at home v on the road in order to compensate for the lack of break. What the Rox haven’t done is pull together many pitchers who actually have a good pitching repertoire for Coors.

    The pitches that work at Coors are pitches that mess with the timing of a batters swing – not pitches that mess with the trajectory of the batters swing.

    Comment by jfree — June 20, 2012 @ 6:49 pm

  13. Guthrie always gets in trouble when he leaves the fastball up, because it’s pretty straight and he doesn’t have a big margin of error. So I think it’s a combination – his fastball command isn’t good (for one reason or another), resulting in more breaking balls, resulting in horrible results in Coors.

    Comment by David — June 20, 2012 @ 7:11 pm

  14. Okay, so Coors isnt the Coors of old, but pitchers still … dont usually find pitching there fun. Got it. Pitches dont move the way pitchers are used to them moving, fine. But, there is one more thing not mentioned. The psychological part. Pitchers know the reputation of Coors, thin air, and the “early years” like the Blake Street Bombers. As such, they become nibblers, increasingly less confident in their stuff at home, and the lack of movement on their pitches only fuels this doubt. “I know I threw a curve ball, but it just didnt break as much as it used to”… seeds of doubt.

    Guthrie may have some of this, and its understandable. Almost all pitchers that pitch regularly will get that creeping doubt. Its the pitchers version of “hitters at Petco or Safeco”. They let the park play mind-games with them without even knowing its going on.

    Comment by Cidron — June 21, 2012 @ 12:18 am

  15. the sad thing is that there were two pitchers available for no real prospect cost who likely would have fit Colorado much better in Derek Lowe and Jake Westbrook. Those two would have fit the high altitude much better, but there is no way the Management felt like adding 13 million to the payroll

    Comment by Psst — June 21, 2012 @ 9:11 am

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