FanGraphs Baseball


RSS feed for comments on this post.

  1. The Verducci effect is a farce. The only reason an increased inning workload can add to the likeliness of injury is a result of flawed mechanics increasing the stress on the body. Ubaldo Jiminez and Lincecum have great mechanics, while players like Hamel’s don’t, so it’s no surprise how their seasons have gone so far.

    Comment by joe — September 3, 2009 @ 5:41 pm

  2. Is a playoff “birth” more meaningful than a playoff “berth”?

    I had never really realized just how shallow the Tiger’s rotation truly is. More surprising there’s nobody on their 40-man who could even be considered remotely appealing as a spot starter (a la Chad Gaudin).

    Also, agree 100% that the Verducci effect is magnified by players having bad mechanics *and* increased workload. This is the same Verducci who wrote a glowing piece about Lincecum’s mechanics…

    Comment by 310ToJoba — September 3, 2009 @ 5:56 pm

  3. Robertson has been lights out since his mid-season surgery, including stops at both Toledo (AAA) and in two starts with Detroit. If he can give the Tigers even just a league average performance in the remaining 5-6 starts over the last month, that relieves a lot of the pressure the Tigers rotation faces. After skipping Washburn’s turn this weekend, the Tigers could then use Robertson and Galaragga and Robertson to similarly skip Porcello and/or Jackson once through.

    Comment by Anonimouse — September 3, 2009 @ 6:03 pm

  4. I seem to remember a post on fangraphs around the start of the season that really tore into the Verducci effect.

    He certainly has not examined his effect in a scientific way.

    Comment by lincolndude — September 3, 2009 @ 6:03 pm

  5. So by your analysis, unless Porcello’s mechanics are flawless, the Tigers would be smart to assume Verducci’s effect is not a farce. How certain are we (and more to the point, how certain are they) that Porcello is flawless enough to evade the effect, farcical or not?

    Comment by joser — September 3, 2009 @ 6:20 pm

  6. “Hopefully the Tigers can wrap up the division soon or get Robertson, Galarraga and Washburn simultaneously healthy, so they can limit Porcello’s innings down the stretch. If not they could, if they go on a deep playoff run, put a dangerous number of innings on Procello’s young arm.”

    I would imagine this is exactly what the Tigers would like to do, particularly as it becomes clear that they will win the Central. Provided they lock up the central, they could essentially “throw out” Bonine to make a couple starts in the last two weeks, or even Zack Miner. The bottom line, provided they maintain a 5 game lead over the next two weeks, all of these workload problems on Galarraga, Porcello, and Washburn will be alleviated.

    “The Verducci effect is a farce.”

    Obviously it’s not exact or scientific, but it seems pretty clear to any statistician that upping the innings of a young pitcher considerably will increase his chances of being injured.

    Comment by The Nicker — September 3, 2009 @ 7:17 pm

  7. Jeremy Bonderman will be part of the Tigers September call ups. They’ll rest Porcello down the stretch if Bondo can make a start or two in his place.

    Comment by Dick Pole — September 3, 2009 @ 7:39 pm

  8. Bonderman is on a 25-30 pitch max and will throw exclusively out of the bullpen.

    Comment by The Nicker — September 3, 2009 @ 8:40 pm

  9. Irrelevent to what i said. And no, i did not say flawless mechanincs, obviously by flawed i meant Kerry Wood and Chris Carpenter flawed. The “effect” has been proven time and time again to only apply to those who learned the wrong way to pitch.

    And if Porcello does have bad mechanics, he will get hurt eventually, probably soon, but how many innings he pitches this year won’t change that.

    Comment by joe — September 3, 2009 @ 8:55 pm

  10. Hamels doesn’t have an apostrophe in his name.

    He’s also exactly the same pitcher he was last year except for BABIP, so he’s really an exception to the Verducci affect, not the rule.

    Comment by don — September 3, 2009 @ 8:58 pm

  11. Umm, injured. nuff said.

    Comment by joe — September 3, 2009 @ 9:21 pm

  12. I believe the “Verducci Effect” is a phenomenon that counts major league innings, not innings from the minor leagues.

    Comment by Dave — September 3, 2009 @ 10:36 pm

  13. Ugh, I hate the Verducci effect, because why wouldn’t he actually take the study to the next level? Instead of simply looking at arbitrary and probably meaningless baselines, why not do a statistical analysis to try to figure out how much extra chance of injury comes from each extra inning. It really wouldn’t take all that much work. I can understand initially doing it how he did, but now that he has this huge scientific sounding effect named after him, the least he can do is follow up with some real data to support his theory.

    Comment by B — September 3, 2009 @ 11:54 pm

  14. Did you just praise Lincecum’s mechanics?

    Comment by Gary — September 4, 2009 @ 12:52 am

  15. Umm, give me a reason not to. Effecient, fluid, timing is proper, throws with his entire body…

    Comment by joe — September 4, 2009 @ 2:13 am

  16. Hamels hasn’t missed a start this season and his velocity is essentially the same as last year. I really have no idea what you’re talking about.

    Comment by don — September 4, 2009 @ 5:56 am

  17. The V effect is obviously a general rule, not a precise equation. In the aggregate, though, it seems to have a lot of truth to it.

    I would imagine the Tigers should be looking at:

    a) how many pitches/inning Porcello is throwing.
    b) how many innings of 25+ pitches he’s thrown (or whatever cutoff you want to use to denote a “high stress inning”).
    c) how his mechanics are holding up during said high stress innings and late in games.
    d) his prior injury history

    In Joba’s case, he’s already had a (thankfully minor) shoulder issue. The Yanks are right to be careful (though one can debate exactly how they should do it).

    Comment by Rob in CT — September 4, 2009 @ 7:45 am

  18. I think you have to look beyond just innings. There are innings and there are innings, right? A 6-pitch 1-2-3 inning is not the same as a 30-pitch inning with walks, hits, etc.

    Comment by Rob in CT — September 4, 2009 @ 7:46 am

  19. Hey Joe, when was the V effect been “proven time and again to apply only to those who learned the wrong way to pitch.” Are you referencing a study of some kind? If so, do you have a link handy? It sounds interesting.

    Comment by Rob in CT — September 4, 2009 @ 7:48 am

  20. Don,

    Look at this article here and the list in here.

    Almost everyone, except Dana Eveland, are identical from last year if you measure pitcher performance by FIP, and practically none has hit the DL.

    So, it would seem that the almost whole of 2009 is an exception to the Verducci rule. At which point it doesn’t remain a rule, really.

    Comment by Sam — September 4, 2009 @ 9:23 am

  21. Porcello reminds me a lot of Aaron Cook.

    Comment by Matt B. — September 4, 2009 @ 10:47 am

  22. How are Hamels’ mechanics so much worse than Lincecum’s? By the way, Hamels is not injured. He threw a two hitter in his last start, in case you’re scoring at home.

    Comment by Richie Abernathy — September 4, 2009 @ 11:12 am

  23. therein lies the fallacy…

    Comment by Richie Abernathy — September 4, 2009 @ 11:13 am

  24. We really should all do a better job of watching our apostrophe usage.

    Comment by Vode — September 4, 2009 @ 12:36 pm

  25. “Porcello reminds me a lot of Aaron Cook.”

    Hmmm. You and Keith Law apparently.

    Comment by blackoutyears — September 4, 2009 @ 4:19 pm

  26. And Eric Seidman.

    Comment by Tripon — September 4, 2009 @ 4:43 pm

  27. Sorry I don’t follow his TWEET as religiously as you do!

    Comment by Matt B, — September 4, 2009 @ 5:27 pm

  28. You must have missed the constant nagging injuries and the offseason shoulder woes.

    Comment by joe — September 5, 2009 @ 1:39 am

  29. It doesn’t take a genius to notice how awkward Hamel’s delivery is, or his bad timing.

    Comment by joe — September 5, 2009 @ 1:59 am

Leave a comment

Line and paragraph breaks automatic, e-mail address never displayed, HTML allowed: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>

Close this window.

0.193 Powered by WordPress