FanGraphs Baseball


RSS feed for comments on this post.

  1. Interesting that Seager was mentioned and not T Plouffe.

    Comment by Joe B — June 27, 2012 @ 2:15 pm

  2. No Frieri? Even as an apology?

    Overall, great list, of course.

    Comment by Kernel — June 27, 2012 @ 2:17 pm

  3. I would have given at least an apology to Curtis Granderson. His defense is being horribly underrated this year (he is not a -20 defender), and the home runs and on base skills are pretty huge.

    Comment by phoenix2042 — June 27, 2012 @ 2:17 pm

  4. Whoops – forgot to list the Apologies To for outfielders. Nice catch.

    Comment by Dave Cameron — June 27, 2012 @ 2:19 pm

  5. I agree with your reliance on how well people have played rather than how famous they are, but I believe one should take into account a whole year of data – since the beginning of last July (or even earlier if one’s at the park voting earlier in the process). Two months of data is just too noisy – and people who have fantastic second halves should be recognized for them.

    Comment by Robert — June 27, 2012 @ 2:20 pm

  6. Saves man! They mean the world!

    Comment by Nik — June 27, 2012 @ 2:21 pm

  7. Seager has almost 150% the PAs that Plouffe does.

    Comment by byron — June 27, 2012 @ 2:24 pm

  8. Adam Dunn may have played some first base this year but he is a DH. Not a first baseman.

    Comment by MikeS — June 27, 2012 @ 2:29 pm

  9. having looked at Granderson’s page again, I can’t believe what a bad defender UZR thinks he is. I mean he isn’t great, but he looks at least average to the eye test. Maybe he takes a couple bad routes, but he has great speed to make up for it. Yet UZR has him at about a -30 UZR/150 pace. He cannot be nearly that bad.

    Comment by phoenix2042 — June 27, 2012 @ 2:30 pm

  10. The All Star game was invented for and still should be 100% for the fans. Forget the Byzantine structure now employed. One IP address–one vote.

    Comment by Baltar — June 27, 2012 @ 2:32 pm

  11. So what was the methodology for choosing? Was it based on an objective metric like WAR (ie, picking the guys with the highest WAR at each position, with some modifications to ensure every team is represented), or were there other factors considered? I have no problem with you doing it either way, but it would be helpful to get some kind of thought process here (if there was one). Considering it’s a “stat nerd” roster, it would be useful to know which stats were used.

    Comment by Real talk — June 27, 2012 @ 2:33 pm

  12. Shouldn’t Sabathia at least warrant an apologies to? He’s outpitched Hammel for one.

    Comment by AL — June 27, 2012 @ 2:33 pm

  13. they do in the all star voting

    Comment by Kyle H — June 27, 2012 @ 2:35 pm

  14. He’s hurt and won’t be playing in the ASG

    Comment by NatsFan73 — June 27, 2012 @ 2:39 pm

  15. wouldnt the yankees benefit immensely from moving Gardner into center, once he is back? I cant understand why they didnt do that as early as last year.

    Comment by Kyle H — June 27, 2012 @ 2:44 pm

  16. Dave, nice article as always. All good picks.
    What about Frieri, though? Seems like a glaring snub.

    Comment by KC — June 27, 2012 @ 2:45 pm

  17. Injured?

    Comment by Sass — June 27, 2012 @ 2:45 pm

  18. De Aza definitely deserves an apology to.

    Comment by U-God — June 27, 2012 @ 2:51 pm

  19. There’s just too many good relievers to name them all. Frieri was hurt in part by starting the year in the NL.

    Comment by Dave Cameron — June 27, 2012 @ 3:04 pm

  20. Fair enough. He’s on the team either way, though.

    Comment by Dave Cameron — June 27, 2012 @ 3:04 pm

  21. There was no strict formula. It was a combination performance (as evaluated as a whole, not just straight WAR sorting), talent, and interest in seeing them, with the first one being weighed the most heavily.

    Comment by Dave Cameron — June 27, 2012 @ 3:06 pm

  22. Outfield in both leagues was really hard.

    Comment by Dave Cameron — June 27, 2012 @ 3:06 pm

  23. Yeah, but Seth Smith?

    Comment by U-God — June 27, 2012 @ 3:09 pm

  24. I was going to say this.

    Comment by Eminor3rd — June 27, 2012 @ 3:10 pm

  25. Kyle, they wouldn’t move Jeter off short for Arod way back when. I don’t think they move Granderson for Gardner, even though it would make so much sense.

    Comment by phoenix2042 — June 27, 2012 @ 3:21 pm

  26. Obviously Granderson’s defensive abilities aren’t measured accurately by UZR (because no one’s are). However, as someone who watches the Yankees, Granderson is not a great defender. He isn’t the worst, but he isn’t good. He breaks late or wrong on most balls hit right at him. He is a classic example of a player reacting to the swing and not the path of the ball. I think that, because his instincts are bad, he’d be better off taking a second to judge the path of the ball rather than reacting immediately when balls are hit right at him. There are lots of instances of him taking two steps in or back before wildly turning around and sprinting back only to have a ball go over his head or land in front of him.

    Comment by Jason H — June 27, 2012 @ 3:23 pm

  27. Being a network admin with access to hundreds of unused IP addresses, I approve your plan..

    Comment by fergie348 — June 27, 2012 @ 3:28 pm

  28. Phoeinix,

    But the Yankees were correct for not moving Jeter to accommodate Arod. They were similar defenders at the time, but now it is not even conceivable that Arod could handle shortstop. Further, this was a pretty predictable trajectory given their differences in body type.

    Because of their correct decision the Yankees have had almost perfect stability on the left side of the infield for 8 years (except for the times when Arod has not been able to play because of the breakdown of his body). At any rate, they are almost certainly the most productive 3B/SS pairing during that time.

    Comment by Jason H — June 27, 2012 @ 3:31 pm

  29. Dude, he’s striking out almost 15 per 9

    Comment by shubox — June 27, 2012 @ 3:37 pm

  30. I agree with U-God on De Aza, although I’ll defend the Seth Smith apology.

    Smith’s got a 132 WRC+ among AL OF; every other AL OF with a higher WRC+ with the exception of Matt Joyce made Dave’s all star team. Coliseum hurts his offensive stats.

    WAR-wise, he’s harmed by Melvin keeping him in a VERY strict platoon with Gomes (who should never ever play the OF) until Cowgill got hurt and Cespedes’ was relegated to the DL and then DHing due to hamstring injuries.

    Until then, he was regularly DHing when his glove isn’t bad enough to DH (thus getting the DH penalty),

    Comment by BX — June 27, 2012 @ 3:41 pm

  31. groin injury.

    Bigger news: Andy Pettitte just broke his ankle on a comebacker through the middle. Out six weeks.

    Comment by Jason H — June 27, 2012 @ 3:41 pm

  32. With vastly inferior stats, including many counting stats.

    Comment by Joe B — June 27, 2012 @ 3:45 pm

  33. Just voted for the game, and then popped back here to see the new articles of the day. Exactly what I voted! (Except I voted Kinsler because of my bias and how much I didn’t want Cano to start…)

    Comment by Daniel — June 27, 2012 @ 4:07 pm

  34. You’re right, Plouffe should have gotten a mention. However, I don’t think he’s been a markedly better player than Seager this year; I think they’ve actually performed at roughly equal levels.

    They’ve both been unlucky on batted balls, though Seager is historically a higher-BABIP hitter than Plouffe. Of course, Plouffe’s ridiculous .234 BABIP deserves a mention, since it’s remarkable that he’s got a wRC+ above 100 with a BABIP like that… but his ISO is .291, literally double what he did last year. Seager’s ISO might be sustainable but Plouffe’s is certainly not. Kyle’s a year and a half younger and has a slightly better infield glove, though he loses points for not playing the outfield. Plouffe won’t sustain his current HR/FB and thus his counting stats, but Seager will.

    I actually see them performing at very similar levels this season and (potentially) going forward. Plouffe probably does merit a mention, but Seager’s stats are in no way “vastly inferior”.

    Comment by ThirteenOfTwo — June 27, 2012 @ 4:14 pm

  35. At 1.2 WAR, I’ll pass. Doesn’t deserve mention.

    Comment by John — June 27, 2012 @ 4:50 pm

  36. Encarnacion has started over 40 games as DH, wouldn’t he be more of a fit in the DH role. either way I applaud you for including him since there’s no chance he gets there as a 1b or DH unless the manager picks him.

    Fan voting always results in egregious oversights.

    Comment by Johnhavok — June 27, 2012 @ 4:53 pm

  37. “But the Yankees were correct for not moving Jeter to accommodate Arod.”

    I believe Arod was considered the better defender when acquired using most any defensive metric and/or the eye test. You are correct in that his body hasn’t held up nearly as well as El Capitan over time.

    “At any rate, they are almost certainly the most productive 3B/SS pairing during that time.”

    At the plate, very likely so, as much because few if any teams have had similar continuity over eight years or so from both positions. However their fielding leaves has and continues to leave much to be desired (which they have generally more than made up for at the dish).

    Comment by Jason B — June 27, 2012 @ 5:45 pm

  38. How does Mike Aviles get no love at SS? I’ll grant the fact his OBP is very ugly and definitely has his deficiencies in the field. However, among AL shortstops check some of his rankings:
    1st in RBIs (41)
    T-1st in Doubles (18)
    2nd in Slugging% (.419)
    T-2nd in HRs (9)
    3rd in WAR (1.8)

    Comment by Austin — June 27, 2012 @ 5:49 pm

  39. Jason B,

    For the most part, I agree with everything you said. My real point was that it is unfair to criticize either the Yankees or Jeter for switching Arod to third. In hindsight, we can be pretty sure the Yankees made the correct decision (unless you believe Arod would have somehow broken down less playing the more demanding position). For some reason, the idea that the Yankees are stupid for keeping Jeter at short and moving Arod to third is a persistent meme. Its not fair, because no matter what their reasoning, the Yankees got it right, and they won a lot of games with their chosen configuration.

    Comment by Jason H — June 27, 2012 @ 6:06 pm

  40. Curtis’ UZR issues may be due to being now positioned differently because of Gardner’s absence. His left fielder right now is terrible.

    Comment by delv — June 27, 2012 @ 6:16 pm

  41. Anyone who strikes out that much deserves to be on the all star roster.

    Comment by Oliver — June 27, 2012 @ 6:32 pm

  42. The last two sound subjective. In what sense is it a “Stat Nerd” list?

    Comment by Ivan Grushenko — June 27, 2012 @ 7:31 pm

  43. I suppose no apologies to Brendan Ryan means that not even near-otherworldly defense can save sub-Mendoza-line work at bat, not even for a shortstop.

    “A run saved is a run earned”, as the saying goes, but it still doesn’t help those who aren’t earning runs at the plate.

    Comment by Guest — June 27, 2012 @ 9:17 pm

  44. Kind of what I figured, which is why the format of the article surprised me.

    I thought there would have been some sorting of stats, or some compound stat work a la the NERD watchability rating, and then a simple table at the end showing who should be all-stars by position. With weighting for 1st-half-2012 vs. career as you like.

    Comment by Beantown — June 27, 2012 @ 9:20 pm

  45. Something needs to be said, and this seems as appropriate a place for it. What are we to make of the fairly large discrepancy between Lawrie’s bWAR value and his fWAR value?

    I would agree that he’s not a worthy all-star representative for the AL (apologies really should be to Canada), but bWAR has him pegged as the most valuable player in all of baseball – stemming largely from his defensive value. Using DRS, he’s on pace to have what they peg as the most valuable defensive season (by no small margin) since the specific metric was introduced by Baseball Info Solutions in 2003.

    I’m not sure what to even make of the stat when in one metric he’s the most valuable player in baseball, while in the other he’s not an all-star.

    Comment by Adam — June 27, 2012 @ 10:33 pm

  46. No Jose Bautista? It’s obvious most of these picks are biased. What’s happened to fangraphs?

    Comment by Anders — June 27, 2012 @ 10:42 pm

  47. Uh, ever heard of NAT? You don’t have hundreds of public IP addresses lying around, sorry. But, nice try.

    Comment by a — June 27, 2012 @ 11:14 pm

  48. He’s in the OF list…what’s happened to your reading comprehension?

    Comment by a — June 27, 2012 @ 11:15 pm

  49. This isn’t fangraphs. Fangraphs is over there. Maybe we should get you some glasses.

    Comment by Jo-Jo Reyes — June 27, 2012 @ 11:17 pm

  50. Pedroia? It’s clear The author doesn’t like the sox.
    Jealous of success?

    Comment by Kevin — June 27, 2012 @ 11:36 pm

  51. sarcasm?

    Comment by radicalhenri — June 28, 2012 @ 12:02 am

  52. The thing is, the average CF is a great defender. Granderson isn’t a bad defender, but hes just nowhere near what his position calls for.

    He’d probably be a decent RF/LF. He’s just a bad CF.

    Comment by RC — June 28, 2012 @ 12:03 am

  53. Dave,

    I agree that Wilhelmsen has been terrific and certainly is a deserving choice for the All-Star game if you need/want relief pitching. But he is not the “most deserving member of the Mariners roster”. That still belongs to Felix.

    Comment by Justin — June 28, 2012 @ 1:04 am

  54. 1. Trout
    2. Cano
    3. Konerko
    4. Hamilton
    5. Beltre
    6. Ortiz
    7. Jones
    8. Mauer
    9. Andrus


    Comment by Matty Brown — June 28, 2012 @ 1:04 am

  55. What kind of bizarre technicality is that?

    Comment by Turks Teeth — June 28, 2012 @ 1:30 am

  56. Not to mention the LOB%, which destroys Perez and Wilhelmsen. I frankly have no clue why Wilhelmsen is on this list over Frieri, apart from the former being a Mariner and the latter being an Angel. Ernesto was terrific in San Diego, and hasn’t given up a single run since joining the Angels.

    Comment by Turks Teeth — June 28, 2012 @ 1:50 am

  57. WAIT. Jim Johnson doesn’t make the cut? I know he’s due to regress, but really?

    Comment by Eugene Jacket — June 28, 2012 @ 2:25 am

  58. Not a fan of the a-hole but A.J. Pierzynski deserves a spot on the team as recognition of his career season at the age of 35. Even with his recent cold streak he is still the top rated C in the AL. From a fantasy perspective, being that he was likely a late round steal, he’s been even that much more valuable.

    Zobrist over Kinsler? Really? I get that Kinsler has slumped in June – but Zobrist was putrid for April/May and has played 2/3 of his games in the OF. How is he a UT guy. He can’t play SS or 3B. Shouldn’t be on the team.

    Comment by Ryan Carey — June 28, 2012 @ 3:39 am

  59. @a:

    Oh, there’s a few possibilities. Say he works for HP. Do you really think that the company uses the entire (Class A, in old school) allocation it has? 16,777,216 addresses does seem a bit much for the one company’s needs. Same for MIT, Ford, Apple, Computer Sciences Corporation, or a host of others with nice legacy allocations.

    Of course, he may not have access, but nice try commenting while making an assumption.

    Comment by John Thacker — June 28, 2012 @ 8:02 am

  60. Ther ewas an article o this recently, I forget where. It spoke of how he’s getting crazy credit for playing short RF on defensive shifts. Certainly helps with the range factor.

    Comment by DD — June 28, 2012 @ 8:36 am

  61. I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you, I just don’t think you’ve really compared the two’s stats yet. Once you look more into it you’ll see that putting Zobrist ahead of Kinsler is not that ridiculous. Zobrist gets on base more and has a higher wRC+.

    And he definitely is a utility man, and he can play 3B.

    The main reason why I don’t think he should be considered the top two AL second basemen (as of now) is his defense, which has been for some reason sloppy at second this year. Both Kipnis and Cano are obviously better this season, and as for Kinsler, well, that’s debatable.

    Comment by yossifeins — June 28, 2012 @ 9:50 am

  62. For his career, UZR considers Granderson an average to marginally above-average CF. I’d assume that’s a more realistic assessment of his defense than less than half a season worth of a statistic with significant measurement variability, that takes three years or so to properly stabilize…

    Comment by Tom N. — June 28, 2012 @ 9:57 am

  63. Wrong technicality – suspect it might have something to do with the hat he’s wearing

    Comment by Schlist — June 28, 2012 @ 10:34 am

  64. By rule, the Mariners–like every other team in the AL–must have one representative. You could try to slot Saunders in the OF, or Seager at third, but they would be taking the place of much better players.

    Wilhelmsen over Frieri is less of a jump in my opinion than the other two. He still strikes out 11/9, and walks less than Frieri. And WIlhelmsen is not being aided by Frieri’s .133 BABIP since he began pitching in the AL.

    I’m not saying Wilhelmsen’s necessarily better, but if a Mariner has to be there, that’s the spot to put him.

    Comment by Matthias — June 28, 2012 @ 11:11 am

  65. If you smartasses can find a 100% fair way of giving one man/one vote that can’t be gamed, please state what it is.
    Even the federal/state election systems are subject to cheating.
    These network administrators can perform the same cheating now if they want to badly enough.
    Give me an alternative proposal or shut the *()__)( up!

    Comment by Baltar — June 28, 2012 @ 11:17 am

  66. i take it that DRS does include shift plays where UZR does not?

    Comment by juan pierres mustache — June 28, 2012 @ 11:22 am

  67. Just wait until IPv6 is standard…

    Comment by Brandon — June 28, 2012 @ 11:37 am

  68. At least this time you posted this comment on the correct league’s roster & discussion thread. Progress!!

    Comment by Jason B — June 28, 2012 @ 12:06 pm

  69. Jason Hammel out after last night’s 8 run shellacking by Angels. Wilson in.

    Comment by sb — June 28, 2012 @ 12:44 pm

  70. Where was Brandon Morrow on this list before he got hurt? On the team? Apologies? Had to be in consideration right?

    Comment by Zach — June 28, 2012 @ 12:50 pm

  71. Pedroia and cano are awesome to watch… Zobrist can stay home. I was shocked to see that switched.

    Comment by Baldacci — June 28, 2012 @ 1:20 pm

  72. Maybe we should get you some pitching lessons, Jo-Jo lol

    Comment by ChopMaster — June 28, 2012 @ 1:27 pm

  73. Ivan, in the sense that Cameron is a “Stat Nerd?”

    I don’t think he was presenting it as THE Stat Nerd roster, more like A Stat Nerd roster.

    Comment by dnc — June 28, 2012 @ 4:15 pm

Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time.

Close this window.

0.293 Powered by WordPress