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  1. There is no key piece in this trade. It’s just the same old Loria song. Slash payroll, pocket the dollars and stay mediocre. This guy has been awful for the game for years and that will never change.

    Comment by Dave Cokin — July 25, 2012 @ 1:50 pm

  2. Dave Cokin can predict the future!

    Comment by Austin Brancheau — July 25, 2012 @ 1:53 pm

  3. Simply a salary dump. Marlins probably can’t make payroll.

    Comment by John — July 25, 2012 @ 1:56 pm

  4. No doubt. Talk about a team begging for a new stadium, a better fanbase, and then they pack the season in by the trade deadline.

    Comment by Alex — July 25, 2012 @ 1:58 pm

  5. I like Evoldi, but it’s hard to imagine the Marlins couldn’t have gotten more. It seems that the biggest motivating factor behind this trade was that the Dodgers would eat the entire salary. Which is a little disheartening since this was supposed to be the new Marlins. Maybe if they were willing to eat a little money they could have brought back Zach Lee instead of Evoldi.

    Comment by Preston — July 25, 2012 @ 1:59 pm

  6. I’ve already ranted about this on Twitter, but my expertise is prospects and Eovaldi is a very good one.

    After taking some time to think about this deal, my attention turns to the gaping hole which is now the Marlins 3B position. Chris Coghlan? is now the best 3B in the organization and he has been playing the outfield. They already traded Matt Dominguez earlier in the season. No free agent help is likely to be available on the open market unless one considers an old guy like Rolen to be help.

    This makes me wonder whether or not the Marlins are done dealing…

    Comment by Mike Newman — July 25, 2012 @ 2:04 pm

  7. I lived in Miami through the first two salary dumps so I get the sentiment completely. Great minds like Dave Cameron have talked me into a wait-and-see approach until things shake out.

    Comment by Mike Newman — July 25, 2012 @ 2:06 pm

  8. I like Eovaldi too. Reminds me a bit of the Jays’ young Henderson Alvarez. Lots of heat on the fastball, one good off speed pitch, and working on a 3rd. Eovaldi’s good slider is a better K pitch than Alvarez’ good change, but Alvarez has better control than Eovaldi and his moving 2 seamer is a little more dangerous. I like Alvarez better and think Eovaldi likely ends up a reliever, but it’s not too far off I don’t think.

    and IMO, I’d never have wanted the Jays to give up Alvarez for Hanley at this point. Not without them eating a ton of money. I’m not sure picking Hanley up on waivers at this point would be a good move.

    I think that’s a great return for Miami in this trade.

    Comment by everdiso — July 25, 2012 @ 2:24 pm

  9. STL seems to have a few extra 3B and could use Josh Johnson…

    Comment by jj — July 25, 2012 @ 2:30 pm

  10. All of this has happened before… and all of this will happen again.

    Comment by Bigmouth — July 25, 2012 @ 2:31 pm

  11. Maybe Texas trades Olt for Johnson

    Comment by Justin — July 25, 2012 @ 2:49 pm

  12. The wise Dave Cameron. Many forget that Hanley Ramirez himself was the product of a salary dump to the Red Sox of Josh Beckett (and Mike Lowell). That move also landed the Marlins Anibal Sanchez (somewhat ironically considering yesterday’s trade).

    The practice itself is frustrating to fans but the Marlins have managed to get some pieces out of such moves in the past.

    Comment by Dav — July 25, 2012 @ 3:52 pm

  13. The wise Dave Cameron. Many forget that Hanley Ramirez himself was the product of a salary dump to the Red Sox of Josh Beckett (and Mike Lowell). That move also landed the Marlins Anibal Sanchez (somewhat ironically considering yesterday’s trade). The practice itself is frustrating to fans but the Marlins have managed to get some pieces out of such moves in the past.

    Comment by Dav — July 25, 2012 @ 3:53 pm

  14. They traded Dominguez not too long before Ramirez which makes me question Beinfest. He was so sure of Ramirez as the current and future 3B of the Marlins that he gave away the only decent 3B in the system for a redundant player defensively and position wise(Lomo, Lee). Then he realized in the past week Marlins couldn’t live with Ramirez. Now there’s no 3B so JJ might go for Olt. What a mess.

    Comment by Ernesto — July 25, 2012 @ 4:33 pm

  15. Nathan “EO” Eovaldi = Edwin Jackson

    Comment by Dodgers88 — July 25, 2012 @ 4:43 pm

  16. Until your prospect rankings bear better fruit than other market solutions and computer-selected prospect rankings, your ‘expertise’ on prospects is conjecture without empirical merit.

    That isn’t to say I don’t think Eovaldi is a fair price for Hanley. I honestly haven’t done that analysis.

    Comment by Marver — July 25, 2012 @ 5:09 pm

  17. Except that Eovaldi was traded for a star player at a position of need.

    Comment by AA — July 25, 2012 @ 5:27 pm

  18. Marver, was that serious or just trolling? Trying to figure out how a guy who doesn’t do prospect rankings (me) is told that my rankings should bear better fruit. (completely perplexed)

    Comment by Mike Newman — July 25, 2012 @ 5:38 pm

  19. Hanley hasn’t been a star for 2 years

    Comment by mwash1983 — July 25, 2012 @ 6:38 pm

  20. Mike Newman clued me in on Eovaldi and he’s been one of my favorite prospects since. Nate is also a freak athlete who excels at everything, sort of like Greinke. If the Fish are competent at all as an organization, I think the mid-rotation tag is extremely mild. I thought it was a brilliant move, actually, because it happened so quickly after they made Hanley available. I’m not so sure the Dodgers would have made the deal if given more time to think about it. Malcontents just kill their value, I think the Marlins did a great job to get such a valuable pitching prospect for him before he killed his value any more (a reasonable fear).

    Comment by Paul — July 25, 2012 @ 10:32 pm

  21. I freely admit that I have never seen Nathan Eovaldi pitch, but I cannot remember any pitcher being that statistically underwhelming in the minor leagues suddenly turning it on and being above average as a major leaguer, much less satisfactory return for a former MVP candidate still in his prime. This strikes me as the ultimate sell-low. Hanley is at the nadir of his value and the Marlins received a player Baseball America says may profile best as a late inning reliever. I can’t believe anyone wouldn’t think this was an incredibly foolish move for the Marlins.

    Comment by jdbolick — July 26, 2012 @ 12:05 am

  22. Randy Johnson says hello.

    Comment by The Ancient Mariner — July 26, 2012 @ 12:34 am

  23. Forgive me if I’ve been baited by a troll here. This is an asinine comment. Eovaldi had a very nice year last year in the minors. And underwhelming in the minors and being an above average major leaguer? Try Halladay, Cliff Lee, Sabathia, Matt Cain, John Lackey, etc etc etc. Look at their stats – some are frightenly similar to those that Eovaldi posted. I really can go on forever.

    Comment by Matt — July 26, 2012 @ 12:53 am

  24. They’re paying his salary…

    Comment by Ben — July 26, 2012 @ 2:21 am

  25. I think it’s pretty obvious the Marlins didn’t believe Dominguez had the bat to play 3rd in the big leagues. Who they run out there for the rest of the season is pretty irrelevant, and they should be able to pick up someone semi-competent for a lot less than the $15 million they were paying Hanley to provide barely acceptable defence and not great offence.

    Comment by Simon — July 26, 2012 @ 5:38 am

  26. As I re-read the article, it doesn’t look like Nate’s age is stated. So for any other readers who think he is some 25 year old college pitcher: He had Tommy John surgery in high school, was selected after round 10 and signed anyway; made his major league debut last year at age 21. Granted, they were really short pitchers last year, but you’re right, he put together an excellent season at AA and firmly shook off the “future reliever” tag.

    I don’t have a problem with Marlins fans being disappointed, because they were straight-up scammed to get that stadium built. However, I completely agree with the baseball moves they have made in recent days, and for me Eovaldi has more upside than Turner.

    Comment by Paul — July 26, 2012 @ 7:29 am

  27. i buy that a pitcher holding his own at age 21/22 generally portends good things but…for a guy with a FBv of 95 (which has touched 99)…why hasn’t he missed more bats in the minors?

    Comment by jcxy — July 26, 2012 @ 9:00 am

  28. He had two seasons under 100 innings as a teenager and did not miss a ton of bats. His lowest SO% was in the Cal League at 20, but isn’t it appropriate to give him credit for a HR/FB rate in that launching pad of 2%? Remember that he was both young and getting his feet wet and also likely rebuilding his command after the TJ in high school.

    Then last season at age 21 he had a 23% SO rate and another 2% HR/FB in the Southern League.

    I get that people want guys to miss bats, but if a highly rated HS arm moves that quickly, very astute evaluators like Mike Newman and Keith Law like him, and he performed very well at both AA before he could buy a beer, then held his own in MLB, I just don’t know what there is to argue about stats-wise.

    Other than the BB%. Actually, that for me is the thing that jumps out as problematic. As Ben Duronino’s excellent Wade Miley analysis showed, if a guy with good stuff can really execute with the FB and also really execute with a good breaking ball, he does not need those additional two pitches to be more than marginally average, and he doesn’t need to throw them very often. It is very encouraging to me that Eovaldi has been throwing what PitchF/X has classified as 2-seamers this year.

    This is a guy that can legitimately dominate with weak groundball contact and the ability to put guys away. If you’re on him for fantasy for strikeouts he’s probably not going to be your guy. I’d guess at least for a few years he’ll be a 50% GB guy with a SO% around 6.5.

    Comment by Paul — July 26, 2012 @ 9:27 am

  29. Randy Johnson has huge command issues, but also had dominant strikeout rates in the minors. Eovaldi has command issues with a fairly average strikeout rate.

    Comment by jdbolick — July 26, 2012 @ 9:38 am

  30. I think you’re confusing “very nice ERA,” which he did have, with “very nice year.” A 21 year old striking out 8.65 per 9 in AA is not impressive, and a guy with that rate also walking 4.02 per 9 definitely isn’t. We’re talking about a guy who over the course of his minor league career struck out well under eight per 9 and walked almost four per 9. So from a statistical standpoint, Eovaldi is nothing special. Now go to the scouting reports and you have a guy who has only two reliable pitches, one of which is a high 90s fastball but that happens to lack any significant movement.

    Also, you might want to look up some data before making additional posts. Lee, Sabathia, and Cain all had VASTLY superior strikeout rates in the minor leagues than Eovaldi. Halladay and Lackey did not, but they did have significantly better command than Eovaldi has yet shown. None of those have any similarity whatsoever, so why you chose to bring them up is beyond my understanding.

    Comment by jdbolick — July 26, 2012 @ 9:49 am

  31. Because a straight fastball is easy to hit.

    Comment by jdbolick — July 26, 2012 @ 9:51 am

  32. So you’re trying to cut off debate by telling somebody to stop cherry-picking, and the method you use to do so is to cherry-pick? You really think a SO% just under 9 SO/IP in AA as a 21 year old is not good?

    His SO% in the Cal League was below league average, but there are a lot of advanced college arms who go through that league. And he was there for under 100 innings.

    Do you honestly think it makes sense to pluck out a single year of a young HS arm in the toughest pitching environment in professional baseball, and shout from the rooftops that that should trump everything else?

    Comment by Paul — July 26, 2012 @ 10:04 am

  33. Johnson’s SO/IP in AAA was under 9. http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=johnso002ran

    This is a really boring and stupid game, isn’t it?

    Comment by Paul — July 26, 2012 @ 10:07 am

  34. @ Paul – I don’t understand what point you think you were trying to make. Randy Johnson had 128 strikeouts in 131.1 AAA innings, and had well over nine strikeouts per 9 during his overall minor league career. In comparison, Eovaldi’s strikeout rate has been 7.42 per 9 in the minors. That’s a pretty dramatic difference, and as noted, Eovaldi has walked 3.67 per 9. If he had glowing scouting reports then maybe there would be a reason to overlook the lack of statistical success, but he doesn’t. Instead scouts say that he only has two pitches and one of them is a high 90s fastball without much movement, and therefore he probably profiles better as a reliever. Given the lack of strikeouts and the command issues, he’s probably also not even a late-inning reliever but rather a 6th/7th inning guy.

    Comment by jdbolick — July 26, 2012 @ 11:39 am

  35. @ Paul – I think you need to put more consideration into your responses. I have looked at the totality of Eovaldi’s minor league career, and my comments about his AA performance were specifically in response to Matt’s focus on that particular season. Regardless of how you try to spin it, Eovaldi’s minor league track record is not impressive.

    Comment by jdbolick — July 26, 2012 @ 11:44 am

  36. even for AA players?

    Comment by jcxy — July 26, 2012 @ 2:44 pm

  37. Even for high school players.

    Comment by jdbolick — July 28, 2012 @ 11:37 am

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