It looks like the Giants fan base is pumped up about this move. Joseph probably wasn’t going to stick behind the plate, he’s a below average defensive catcher but his bat will get him to the show. Nate will put up decent numbers in CBP, hitting at AT&T really hurt his power numbers. He’ll like that right field porch..
Would it make any sense to play Cabrera in RF and Pence in LF? Pence has never played LF in the majors and (probably) has a better arm than Cabrera (who hasn’t played extensively in RF), but AT&T is unusual in that range is relatively more critical than arm for RFers. Given that we’re 2/3rds through the season, Bochy will probably just play the players where they are most familiar. But I suspect that their physical tools would be better utilized if they swapped corner outfield positions.
I would like to see someone put together a comparison of the prospects package that Philly gave up for Hunter Pence and the prospects package that Philly just received from San Francisco.
I never understood the Pence hype leading up to the trade to Philly last season. Pence has been pretty consistently unspectacular yet has been presented to fans as a star player for quite a while now.
It will be interesting to see if Ruben Amaro, Jr. is able to auction off any other expendable veterans for anything of value. I’m not sure why the Phillies are not listening to offers for Carlos Ruiz. What are the chances that Ruiz maintains this level of play beyond this season? My god, what does Amaro not get about the need to buy low and sell high?
Yeah I would feel a lot better about this trade if Belt were looking more like a long-term solution at first than a prospect who might not pan out. While Joseph doesn’t have a future as a catcher in the majors, he might be a decent low-cost option at 1B in 2013 and beyond. And I’m not convinced that Pence represents that much of a net upgrade over Blanco/Schierholtz given what they lose defensively.
From Baseball America: Joseph has worked hard to clean up his receiving and blocking, and scouts no longer wonder whether he can stay behind the plate. He also has plus arm strength and has erased 48 percent of basestealers this season.
Just curious, but when you say “far cry,” do you mean that the new outfield will be an improvement or a downgrade? Because Werth and Ibanez were both way negative in UZR in 2010 and Victorino wasn’t great. I hope no one’s hoping to get that Phillies outfield back!
Singleton + Cosart + Zeid + Santanan >> Joseph + Schierholtz + Rosin. However, the Phils got Pence with 2 years + 2 monhts of control whereas the Giants are ony getting him with 1 year + 2 months of control, so getting back less is expected. That being said, the real question is why did they trade for Pence one year ago when they were a virtual lock to make the playoffs and Dom Brown was just starting to play well (.398 OBP last July)?
I wouldn’t call Joseph cheap. I liked him a lot, and thought he could become an offensive threat in time. The fact that we have depth at catcher made him expendable though (although Susac hasn’t done well this year). It also seems to show the Giants have faith in Belt in the long term since Joseph (or Posey) were potential 1B options in the future.
As for Pence, I don’t expect him to light the world on fire, but he is a solid pickup for a seemingly very lefthanded lineup. He has decent pop and has shown he can hit in AT&T. We’ll see how well he can handle right field. At the very least, this trade is a good PR move to show the Giants are making an effort to win the division while you have the Dodgers going all pokemon and grabbing all of the available players.
But he does have a future as a catcher. Average defensive backstop with power. He is 21 and has displayed the work ethic and maturity to already go from a fringe catching prospect to a projection as an average or better defender.
Answer: The Phillies believe/believed that pitching depth and defense are drivers of success more in the regular season than the playoffs. They (correctly, IMO) saw that, despite their superficial success (measured in W/L), they had a significant need to fill offensively if they were going to be competitive in the playoffs.
As for Brown…the Phillies have quietly appreciated defensive value under RAJ–even Ibanez rated as average for the first two years of the deal. Anyway, the reasons why Brown hasn’t been a FT MLer can be explained a dozen ways by a dozen people, but the common element in all the theories is that they wanted a more polished OF. I guess we’ll see if or the degree to which this stunted his growth.
“Would it make any sense to play Cabrera in RF and Pence in LF? Pence has never played LF in the majors”
You just answered your own question. It was be silly to trade for a player in the middle of the pennant race, then ask him to play a position he’s never played before. Maybe next year – with an off-season and spring to work on it – but you don’t set someone up for failure in this type of situation.
Go ahead and put it together then. Nobody’s stopping you.
” I’m not sure why the Phillies are not listening to offers for Carlos Ruiz. What are the chances that Ruiz maintains this level of play beyond this season?”
I get a kick out of stuff like that. If it’s clear to you that Ruiz is playing over his head, then why wouldn’t it be clear to GMs and scouts? Do you think teams are lining up to give up top prospects for Ruiz, thinking he’s the next Piazza? Isn’t it more likely that they brought him up in their various discussions over the last week or two, and nobody made a sufficient offer?
nah, reports are Joseph’s defense is getting better.
and re the base: stupid fans are always more than happy to trade away prospects that they never heard of and know nothing about. almost everyone in SF was ecstatic over the Beltran for Wheeler deal at the time.
a portion of the $3.3 million still owed to Pence for the rest of this season, actually
Comment by downbythebay — August 1, 2012 @ 12:28 am
I didn’t mean to suggest that Carlos Ruiz is “playing over his head.” He has been somehow flying under the radar as one of the league’s best catchers for the last several years, despite playing for a high profile team. [Maybe part of the problem is that his bull-headed manager refused to bat him higher than eighth prior to this season.] What I said is that Ruiz is unlikely to sustain this level of play, and that’s because of his age. He is, what, 32, 33? It’s difficult to imagine that he is still going to be playing at a high level by the time Philly is ready to be competitive again. And he’s having a career year. So why not auction him off to the highest bidder? Obviously you just hold on to the guy if nobody is willing to give up anything particularly good, but I get the feeling that he was never really shopped. I get the feeling that the Phillies expect to be back in the thick of things next season, and that is just completely irrational. This team is very old, has a depleted farm system, and has a massive amount of money tied up with some old players who are just going to keep getting older.