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  1. Saw this quote on Jeff Passan’s latest article, is there questions about Rubby’s makeup?

    Rubby De La Rosa has a million-dollar arm and nickel attitude, and the Dodgers didn’t lament losing him.

    Comment by laser show relax — August 27, 2012 @ 4:42 pm

  2. Another article about the Red Sox rehashing the same things we heard in the first dozen or so…I could have sworn I was on Fangraphs, not ESPN.

    Comment by wont let me post without a name — August 27, 2012 @ 4:52 pm

  3. Right, because every article is ignoring the MLB ready players and examining the MiLB guys. Plus every article features a writer who has scouted these arms in person. This is a fangraphs article, you’re just leaving ESPN comments.

    Comment by James — August 27, 2012 @ 4:59 pm

  4. Yeah, really. The media has loved most of the moves the Red Sox have been making for the past five years, yet they continue to sink further and further into the abyss. Their greatest run was built when Dan Duquette took over, rebuilt the system, and then was fired when the new ownership group came in, yet 80% of the work had been done by 2002, leading to their 2004 championship. The supposed Money Ball guys came in (you know, the ones who spent all that money on Gonzalez, Crawford, Beckett, etc.) and the more moves they made, the worse the team became. Yet the experts love them. Sign a bunch of free agents? Great! Trade away those same free agents? Great!

    This organizaation ran a Yankee payroll without the results. Fans want the results, not the headlines.

    Comment by Robert — August 27, 2012 @ 5:08 pm

  5. What do you think the Angels want for Vernon Wells? he would make an awesome platoon partner for Crawford. And only $22 million/ year! THink how much the TV deal would go up if they did that!

    Comment by eric — August 27, 2012 @ 5:11 pm

  6. If you routinely frequent Fangraphs then you’ll know that when something this big happens there are going to be a lot of articles written about it. If you’re not interested then don’t open the link. Nobody’s forcing you to read free some of the best baseball content on the web, so please stop posting comments in every article you don’t have an interest in.

    Comment by Caveman Jones — August 27, 2012 @ 5:12 pm

  7. Another pointless, antagonistic comment like we’ve all seen a dozen times before…..I could have sworn I was on Fangraphs, not ESPN.

    Comment by Fletch — August 27, 2012 @ 5:14 pm

  8. Won’t let me post,

    My interest is prospects and none went to L.A. Had the Dodgers received a plethora of kids in the deal, I would have covered that as well.

    Comment by Mike Newman — August 27, 2012 @ 5:30 pm

  9. To counter, I have a contact who has told me Rubby was all the Dodgers could talk about in late 2010-2011 when he began shooting through the system. From watching De La Rosa, I never noticed anything out of the ordinary from a makeup standpoint.

    Comment by Mike Newman — August 27, 2012 @ 5:31 pm

  10. This has nothing to do with an affinity for the Red Sox. They got prospects. I cover prospects. I’ve seen the two best prospects they got. End of story. If the Red Sox go 162-0 or 0-162, I have absolutely no dog in the fight.

    Comment by Mike Newman — August 27, 2012 @ 5:32 pm

  11. Of course, they never really ran a Yankee payroll. The last time the Sox matched the Yanks, one player was getting more than half (name him!). The Royals have had the highest payroll in baseball more recently than the Red Sox.

    Comment by Mr Punch — August 27, 2012 @ 5:35 pm

  12. “their greatest run was built when Dan Duquette took over, rebuilt the system, and then was fired when the new ownership group came in, yet 80% of the work had been done by 2002, leading to their 2004 championship.”

    This is so ignorant. Outside of Youk and Hanley, Duquette left the system in pure despair, check the BA org rankings. His top pitching prospects were of the Casey Fossum and Jorge De La Rosa quality, it was a bare system.

    If you call 80% of the team Duquette’s, then 20% is Schilling, Foulke, Timlin, Arroyo Ortiz, Mueller, Cabrera, Millar, etc. Literally the only key pieces from Duquette’s near decade term during that 2004 run were Pedro, Lowe, Damon, Varitek and Ramirez. You literally can’t turn over a roster more than Theo did in two seasons and compete for a WS. Duquette’s Red Sox were a joke, and couldn’t win in the playoffs despite having the best pitcher ever and an MVP caliber SS. Stop this awful revisionist history.

    Comment by Danananahh — August 27, 2012 @ 5:44 pm

  13. Mike, I have a quick question about your process scouting a player. If you were to see a player at a lower level one year and get a good idea on the type of player they are, are you more or less likely to see them again at a more advanced level? Assuming you can see them of course. On one hand, you already have an idea of the type of player they are, while on the other you can check how their development is coming along.

    Comment by RudolfSchmidt — August 27, 2012 @ 6:52 pm

  14. I like this article from Newmie because it highlights that RDLR is more than just a hard thrower.

    Tremendous armside run on the gasser to go along with a plus (if not plus-plus) change up and a solid-average to plus slidepiece.

    Comment by Marc — August 27, 2012 @ 6:56 pm

  15. They both have surprisingly compact, repeatable mechanics for high mph guys. I wonder if that has been a focus since Rubby’s surgery. A side by side would be interesting.

    Comment by Cus — August 27, 2012 @ 7:10 pm

  16. Rudolf,

    For me, the best learning experiences come from seeing players young and monitoring their development as they advance. I was fortunate enough to see Julio Teheran during three different seasons. He’s the best example I can think of in terms of seeing a guy multiple times and learning something each time.

    At times, I can gain everything I need off of a single look. More often then not, I try to see at least two games and a BP session if at all possible. Professional scouts will attempt to see 5 games for a great look at the entire team including the full bullpen. I don’t need to, or have the budget to dig that deep.

    Comment by Mike Newman — August 27, 2012 @ 8:05 pm

  17. Be careful to not go overboard with Plus or Plus-Plus. For me to consider a pitch plus, it has to be commanded well. RDLR’s command is average at best on both pitches from what I saw in person. If you want to say Plus-Plus fastball, slider that flashes plus and the potential for an above average change, then I can go with that.

    Comment by Mike Newman — August 27, 2012 @ 8:26 pm

  18. My Rubby video is from 2011. At 94-97, RDLR’s delivery is relatively smooth. When he hunts for triple digits, effort is noticeable. My hope is that the Red Sox dial him back some because the fastball actually has more sink and arm side run.

    Comment by Mike Newman — August 27, 2012 @ 8:28 pm

  19. Good points, Mike!

    Comment by Dale — August 27, 2012 @ 8:44 pm

  20. Maybe they can give Rubby the Andrew Miller treatment, though hopefully Rubby could stay a starter.

    Comment by Cory — August 27, 2012 @ 8:53 pm

  21. rubby reminds me a lot of pineda. but i’d say his mechanics are better, pineda probably has better command, but considering that pineda was a top 10 prospect, rubby was way underrated.

    Comment by henry — August 27, 2012 @ 9:25 pm

  22. Yankee payroll without the results? You’re right on one part, their results have been different. Red Sox ownership has won twice as many championships as the Yankees since they took over. Are those the results the fans want?

    You’re wrong on the payroll part though, the Red Sox were far closer to the other teams in the top 5 than they were to the Yankees.

    Also Robert, your cutting edge analysis seemed to gloss over the 2007 season entirely. Best record in MLB in the regular season and a championship ring a bell?

    Comment by HenduForKutch — August 27, 2012 @ 9:46 pm

  23. sounds alot similar to fautino de lpos santos stuff wise, who i had hopes for but completely failed this yr

    Comment by mike — August 27, 2012 @ 10:12 pm

  24. You don’t really need to condescend to respond to these kinds of comments.

    Comment by ChrisCEIT — August 27, 2012 @ 10:15 pm

  25. ” The media has loved most of the moves the Red Sox have been making for the past five years”

    That is complete and utter non-sense. The local Boston media lampoons just about every deal made by the club

    Comment by CampBrice — August 27, 2012 @ 10:20 pm

  26. Pretty level-headed talk from one of Fangraph’s borg-like army of Red Sox-oids. Watch it, Drone #5159.

    Comment by NBarnes — August 28, 2012 @ 1:02 am

  27. Does Rubby profile more as a lights out reliever? Anytime I see a gas throwing guy in early-mid 20s already who has never really been stretched that’s the first thing I think of.

    Just assuming needing to develop in the minors another full year, Rubby wouldn’t be in the Majors until his age 25 season. That’s pretty late for a top guy, but not unheard of. However, he’s only thrown over 50 innings in a season once. Sounds like a long shot at ever being a top rotation guy. I’m not a scout though, just doesn’t seem like he’d ever be able to eat the innings. If he does, it’ll probably take a while to build that arm strength up and what we know about how velocity drops as a pitcher ages, it’d likely be that his stuff isn’t as electric by that time.

    If Webster tires easily and has a 4.2 BB/9 in AA as a 22 year old, maybe he’s a reliever too? Best case scenario it seems like Webster will start in AAA next year and maybe work his way up. K numbers and BB/9 don’t scream anything special. His HR supression and worm burner stuff sounds like a good relief guy.

    Honestly from looking at their stats and reading your reports, sounds like Venters/Kimbrel. Guy with electric stuff that is better suited to close and another guy who gets GBs and is also better suited for relief.

    Comment by Antonio Bananas — August 28, 2012 @ 1:26 am

  28. Rubby has pitched 100 innings in a year twice, just at different levels. And he threw 60 in the majors last year.

    Comment by Wobatus — August 28, 2012 @ 5:28 am

  29. Mike – this was a plus-plus article.

    And I don’t have a “nickel” attitude. My attitude is at least 50 Cent.

    Comment by Rubby — August 28, 2012 @ 7:59 am

  30. Rubby has all the potential in the world but that’s all he is right now is just projection and potential. He does have filthy stuff though and if he can transalte that into more strikes and have the mentality to throw 4 pitches per at bat, he can be a dominant starter. Personally see him kind of as a right handed Chapman, throws hard but when he tries to throw hard he loses comand and walks a lot. If he can do what Chapman did this year and lose 3 to 4 MPH on his fastball and worry about location and throwing strikes, he can be a probably the most dominant pitcher in the AL East. BUT thats my biggest concern…. the AL EAST

    Comment by bmcalary23 — August 28, 2012 @ 12:28 pm

  31. That’d be a huge waste. The Sox didn’t really “fix” Miller in any capacity, he’s still mostly only long term viable as a LOOGY.

    Comment by Jonathan — August 28, 2012 @ 12:32 pm

  32. His 2011 threw me off because b-r has minor and ML stats on seperate pages.

    Still though, best case scenario is he’s not called up full time until next year and even that’s a bit of a stretch. In all likelihood, it’s 2014 as a 25 year old. That’s if he’s going to start. That’s if he can ever handle the load of 200 innings, a little less than twice the most he’s ever thrown.

    I say put him in the pen now.

    Comment by Antonio Bananas — August 28, 2012 @ 9:21 pm

  33. Antonio,

    This is a great discussion about their respective floors. You are absolutely correct that this is a possible outcome for both RDLR and Webster.

    Comment by Mike Newman — August 29, 2012 @ 6:17 am

  34. Not sure why you can’t see RDLR in their rotation until 2014? He has already had success at the MLB level and would be a rotation stalwart at this point had he not been hurt.

    Comment by Mike Newman — August 29, 2012 @ 6:18 am

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