Blue Jays Take On Salary To Get Rasmus

The talks started last winter, but they didn’t seem serious. Why would the Cardinals consider trading Colby Rasmus? He’s young, he’s cost-controlled, and he’s a center fielder who has some pop. But he clashed with manager Tony LaRussa, and we’ve seen other players depart St. Louis after such spats. Those talks have heated up again in the past month, gaining momentum as the trade deadline approaches. Today it all came to a head. Early this morning word broke that the Blue Jays were set to acquire Edwin Jackson, whom they’d then flip to the Cardinals in a Rasmus deal. A few hours, everything came together as planned.

As a quick reference breakdown, here’s what each team ended up with:

Blue Jays: Colby Rasmus, Mark Teahen, Brian Tallet, Trever Miller, P.J. Walters

Cardinals: Octavio Dotel, Mark Rzepczynski, Edwin Jackson, Cory Patterson

White Sox: Jason Frasor, Zach Stewart

The Blue Jays first benefited from the White Sox desire to shed salary. Dealing Jackson saves the Sox only $2.75 million, but adding in Teahen brings that figure to nearly $10 million in the next two years. Because the Blue Jays were willing to take on salary, they were able to acquire both players for the relatively cheap cost of Frasor and Stewart. Frasor is a useful reliever who should net Type B compensation this winter, but he’s expendable from the Blue Jays point of view. Stewart is also useful, but is pitching in AA at age-25. As Baseball Prospectus’s Kevin Goldstein emphatically says, he’s probably a No. 4 starter or late-inning reliever in the long run. Our own Marc Hulet thinks he can be a bit better in the rotation.

The second trade is the meaty one for the Jays, as they bring back a player who will be part of their long-term plans. Rasmus is the gem of this trade, as he’s under team control through 2014. He’ll get a bit more expensive after this season, since he hits arbitration for the first time, but the Blue Jays are pretty well set in the payroll department. They have just $36 million committed in 2012, and have a few key players — Ricky Romero, Adam Lind, and Yunel Escobar — signed to $5 million deals. They can afford to take payroll high, too, if they feel they can contend; payroll was as high as $97 million in 2008. The low payroll was also instrumental in acquiring Teahen, who almost certainly will play a part-time role in 2012.

Even though they essentially ended the deal with just Rasmus, the price was a worthy one for the Blue Jays. They traded three relief pitchers and a prospect, plus a non-consideration in Patterson, in order to acquire him, a price that many other teams likely would have met. Yet it seems that GM Alex Anthopolous has knack for sniffing out opportunities such as this one. He took advantage of two teams’ issues: the White Sox payroll and the Cardinals’ discontent with Rasmus. If just one team had an issue, this deal doesn’t come close to getting done. But Anthopolous made the connection, and his team is all the better for it.

While the Jays won’t contend this year, they’re set up well for next year. In the outfield they’ll have Travis Snider, Rasmus, and Jose Bautista. The infield will consist of Brett Lawrie at third, Yunel Escobar at short, and Adam Lind at first, with J.P. Arencibia behind the plate. What’s better, there’s a chance that Travis D’Arnaud is ready at some point, potentially giving them an upgrade at catcher. The only real hole is at second base, where Aaron Hill has fallen out of favor in the last two years. But with the other pieces on offense, plus the makings of a good pitching staff, the Jays could be ready to compete with the Yankees, Red Sox, and Rays in 2012.

While each team has its reasons for executing this deal, it’s easiest to see from the Blue Jays perspective. They got a player who will be with them as they try to contend from 2012 through 2014. All they gave up in exchange were three relievers and a questionable prospect. Credit Anthopolous for bringing everyone together here. There were two distinct opportunities, and he took advantage of both. He certainly has had a successful first couple of years at the helm in Toronto.



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Joe also writes about the Yankees at River Ave. Blues.


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Danny
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Danny
5 years 1 day ago

I love AA. We’ll trade some relievers and a decent prospect for a young CF coming off a 4+ WAR season any day.

Tom B
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Tom B
5 years 1 day ago

They seems to constantly make moves like that, forgetting that it also takes a starting pitching staff to win baseball games.

Preston
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Preston
5 years 1 day ago

I don’t think they forget that fact. Ricky Romero and Brandon Morrow are a pretty good start. Hopefully Kyle Drabek will regroup and come back strong.

jim
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jim
5 years 1 day ago

why do i have click on the comment to see it? did they add this feature to things that get a ton of minus votes?

dave
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dave
5 years 1 day ago

thank god the cardinals got rid of the cancer. now theyre going to compete!

Tom B
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Tom B
5 years 1 day ago

Next year?

ezb230
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ezb230
5 years 1 day ago

sans albert?

NEPP
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NEPP
5 years 1 day ago

Stupider like a fox!!!

Burrellfan1
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Burrellfan1
5 years 1 day ago

They didn’t get rid of the cancer. Tony LaRussa is still in St. Louis.

gobstopper
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gobstopper
5 years 1 day ago

Pure ninja!

spaldingballs
Member
5 years 1 day ago

Per Buster Olney, the White Sox are getting Trever Miller.

Someanalyst
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Someanalyst
5 years 1 day ago

Apparently not…

Allan
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Allan
5 years 1 day ago

As a Jays fan, I love it. Absolutely love it. Can’t get much better!

V
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V
5 years 1 day ago

Tony La Russa can’t retire soon enough (and really, that’s the best deal Mozeliak could get??). The Cardinals’ are dead to me until there’s a change of management. Sad.

glenstein
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glenstein
5 years 15 hours ago

This happened with Scott Rolen, too. Anyone else?

Seth
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Seth
5 years 1 day ago

but where does Thames play? I’d move Lawrie to 2nd and keep Bautista at 3rd with Thames as a starter

SC2GG
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5 years 1 day ago

Lawrie can’t play 2nd in the majors.

Thames and others can turn into a legitimate 2B that’s currently playing for some other team. Or perhaps Escobar can turn into a 2B, when Reyes signs…. haha.

Sean O'Neill
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Sean O'Neill
5 years 1 day ago

DH? Or Snider DHs and Thames takes LF? It can be made to work.

mikee15
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mikee15
5 years 1 day ago

If anything Thames will be the DH. Snider quite a bit better in the field than he is.

J.Ro
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J.Ro
5 years 1 day ago

Prince Fielder next year?

SC2GG
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5 years 1 day ago

You have to think that at some point, all the other GMs in the league will just band together and not trade with AA anymore because no matter how the deal seems to be beneficial to them, they’ll have this sneaking suspicion they’re going to get ripped off somehow.

CircleChange11
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CircleChange11
5 years 1 day ago

… Or just like what happened with Beane and Kenny Williams, their trade quality will “regress”. Both Beane and Williams ripped off a lot of teams to assemble a very good young starting rotation and potent offense.

The problem with AA and the Blue Jays is the number of trades/acquisitions/prospects like this that it is going to take to make the playoffs out of the East.

IMO, AA isn’t long for Toronto. I think he’ll want to move to an organization where such good trades actually make a difference in the standings.

SC2GG
Guest
5 years 1 day ago

He’s in his dream job right now. He’s Canadian (and thus a Jays fan growing up), came up through the system with the Jays (started in a mail room at the training complex in Florida), and has basically already gotten where he wants to go.

He’ll get a big raise, and continue to do the work that got him here. He won’t always have these ridiculous results (like Beane), but if you listen to him talk a lot, he’s extremely intelligent, well spoken and humble at the same time, and he likes to talk about how much he loves his job.

I can’t picture him moving someplace else, knowing what I know about him.

Section 216
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Section 216
5 years 1 day ago

Like the Twins? PLEASE?

ddrezner
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5 years 1 day ago

Also, don’t the Jays have more money to play with than the A’s?

CircleChange11
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CircleChange11
5 years 1 day ago

Okay, so they’ll continue to “compete” with the Rays. Since the Rays turned it around in 2008, the Blue jays have finished behind them. I was not intentionally trying to insult the Blue jays, but rather illustrate the difficulty of the AL East. In 2009, Toronto won 86 games … and finished in 4th place.

Like the Twins? PLEASE?

F*** the Twins. I was thinking of an organization like Atlanta, or perhaps even LAA or NYM.

He’s in his dream job right now.

That’s cool. I just note the trend for mega-talented, competitive people to want to be in situations where their influence can be appreciated by resulting in ultimate success.

I caution against expecting AA to continue to make these high quality moves (just due to the nature of the job and supply-demand), but he is doing an absolutely great job.

CircleChange11
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CircleChange11
5 years 1 day ago

Also, don’t the Jays have more money to play with than the A’s?

Yes. But the A’s didn’t have to outsmart and/or outspend the Rays, Red Sox, and Yankees. That’s the difference.

If the current Blue jays were in either Central division, they’d likely be leading.

SC2GG
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5 years 1 day ago

If the Jays were in any other division, JP Riccardi would still be running the team due to a couple playoff appearances and all sorts of close-to-playoffs seasons, and we’d all be laughing at them and comparing their yearly existence to that of the Angels, Tigers or White Sox – teams that are never complete in all aspects, never truly rebuilding, but never quite good enough to make people think they can win the WS. A ten year run of, “Oh, yeah, we might catch lightning in a bottle..”.

Circle is correct that the AL East is different than every other division in baseball. You need to do things different. Currently, AA is doing things different, and we all have hope. If you’re a reasonably intelligent person, you’re not going to like being an Angels fan, but right now, despite the worse record, if you’re reasonably intelligent, it’s fun to be a Jays fan.

Geoff
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Geoff
5 years 1 day ago

All three teams you mention, the Sox, Angels, and Tigers, have been to the WS in the past 10 years, with two of them winning it. ???

Noxage
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Noxage
5 years 1 day ago

@ CircleChange

Neither Beane or Williams had a 2 year run like this. Not even close. The Wells trade, Bautista extension, Morrow deal, Escobar deal, Escobar extension, Lawrie trade (the one fair deal among these) and building a top 2 farm (from a bottom 5 system) in this time frame is unprecedented. It really is.

Rogers Communications has deep pockets and AA has stated on numerous occasions that he has his dream job. He’s not going anywhere. To think he’ll up and leave to work for a team like the Braves because he’ll be more “appreciated” is ignorant.

Also, if he’s as competitive as you allude to, why would he not want to win in the best division in baseball?

baty
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baty
5 years 1 day ago

Yes, Beane and Kenny haven’t had a burst quite like Blue Jays, but CC is right in that this hot streak of swapping is similar to what the A’s and White Sox have done in the past by being a dramatic beneficiary of oddly perceived trade values.

In respect to Kenny, his 2000 to 2007 trading strength (up until the Gio Gonzalez deal and recent moves) was different because it mostly included a pretty nasty “failure” rate for teams acquiring his prospect and MLB roster talent (in addition to some significant low key wins like Quentin, John Danks, Gavin Floyd, Matt Thornton, Jim Thome, Freddy Garcia throughout a 3 year stretch).

Statement
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Statement
5 years 1 day ago

If AA takes the Jays, to the playoffs, there will be much appreciation. The market is there, certainly (see the mid eighties until the strike of 1994).

It’s not a Tampa Bay situation.

CircleChange11
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CircleChange11
5 years 1 day ago

[1] Beane had quite a run with 2 CYA and 2 MVPs, including 4 straight playoff appearances. Williams, in terms of WAR, absolutely pillaged teams … and won a title.

[2] In the ealry 90s (92-94) the AL East was very different. The Rays were terrible, BOS was not what they are now, and the difference between top spending teams and the median was much, much, much smaller.

Since then, BOS has thrived with application of sabermetric principles and BIG spending. NYY outspends everyone with good success, and the Rays have become a force. So, even if TOR spends a bunch more, they still won’t spend anywhere near what BOS and NYY do. It’s possible that they find themselves passing TBR and either NYY or BOS to make the playoffs, but it’s not going to be an easy deal … especially with their pitching needs. It’s just a tremendously difficult situation.

I think the A’s and CWS are good examples of how difficult it is to maintain the Midas touch. While acknowledging that TOR can spend more than OAK, it also has to be considered how much BOS and NYY spend. At some point TOR is going to have to add through FA, and that’s an “overpaying” endeavor with mixed results. That is not to take anything away from AA. His moves, thus far, have been very good … but not necessarily unprecedented.

Someanalyst
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Someanalyst
5 years 1 day ago

Don’t forget that if another team is added to the playoffs in the near future, the impact on AL East teams will be greater than on any other group.

I imagine AA daydreams regularly about that rule change, particularly if the Rays wind up needing a few down years to rebuild (not at all certain, but plausible).

Hone
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Hone
5 years 23 hours ago

Saying the Rays were terrible from 92-94 seems like an understatement. In those years, they won a combined 0 games. That’s an average of 0 wins per year, or a winning percentage of .000. Wow!

CircleChange11
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CircleChange11
5 years 16 hours ago

Heh Heh.

mikee15
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mikee15
5 years 1 day ago

Not to nit pick, but AA is from Montreal and started out with the Expos.

Noxage
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Noxage
5 years 1 day ago

@ CircleChange

[1] Using Miguel Tejada’s 4.7 “MVP” season as a part of an argument is not wise. Neither is Zito’s Cy Young. This is FanGraphs after all.

[2] I wasn’t aware the Rays existed in the early 90s. I could have sworn 1998 was their inaugural year…

The Jays are not a small market team. Beeston has stated payroll can be increased to around $120M when needs be. To think AA can’t win with that is delusional. Look what he’s doing with a 3rd of that.

CircleChange11
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CircleChange11
5 years 1 day ago

I was just mentioning some of Beane’s accomplishments as part of the discussion about what GM has had the best short run.

If it helps, I’ll rephrase “He signed an amatuer shortstop for peanuts that put up a 4.7 WAR season.”

He drafted a 3-headed monster starting rotation, as well as, drafting an MVP (Giambi).

Regardless of all the other points and counterpoints, the MAIN point is that Billy Beane as a GM assembled a comparatively talented (or moreso) team than AA has. That was the discussion, whether AA has the most impressive short stint as a GM. Kenny Williams, through trades, Rule 5 acquisitions, etc did too.

————————————

TOR can increase their payroll to 120M, and that’ll be 80% of what NYY and BOS will be spending. TOR needs to make up 10 wins to get to where BOS and NYY are. That’s all assuming that BOS and NYY don’t make good moves to improve their teams as well.

That’s also assuming that TOR and BOS don’t nab the FA’s that AA has his eye on. It’s not like the rest of MLB will stand pat, while TOR uses its increased budget to intelligently nab the desired FA’s without any other teams getting some of them.

It’s easy to say “with XX money to spend, AA will make improvements that will put TOR on par with NYY and BOS”, it’s much more difficult to identify the players he’ll sign and for how much money, and whether that will eclipse the gap.

It’s possible that TOR does become one of the big 3 (or 4) in the AL East. But, it’s far from a foregone conclusion. I’d be interested to see who TOR targets as free agents.

They’re also going to need some pitching. That 60M (or whatever it is) increase in their budget is going to go quickly if/when they start adding serious impact free agents that can make up 10 wins in the standings.

It would be absolutely awesome if AA can pull this off. Given his division, it would be the most impressive starting tenure of a GM.

SC2GG
Guest
5 years 15 hours ago

The Yankees always shoot themselves in the foot, forcing themselves to sign “true Yankees” or whatever it is that makes Derek Jeter & The Superfriends special, at the expense of having good players that aren’t true Yankees, as well as three times the expense of Yunel Escobar.

I think it’s funny that the Yankees get ragged on for being these stone cold “buy our championship” killers, when really they’re just big wusses that get bossed around by Derek Jeter.

The Red Sox, on the other hand, are much more annoying in their stone coldedness.

Also please, Self-Yankers, don’t get offended when someone tells you Derek Jeter sucks. It doesn’t matter if this is The Derek Jeter Summer of Love, next year is the Derek Jeter Comeback Tour, and it doesn’t matter that he had to personally refuse to be in the Derek Jeter All Star Game Featuring Derek Jeter, he still sucks and the Yankees are still being stupid about it.

CircleChange11
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CircleChange11
5 years 1 day ago

The Cardinals other problem was losing Wainwright for the season, forcing McClellan into a starting role, and the bullpen depleted as a result.

While TLR’s frustration with Rasmus is a big factor, so is being in a pennant race and being short-handed with pitching.

Edwin Jackson is on pace for 4-4.5 WAR season, and Jay and Craig are producing well.

I’m not a big fan of trading Rasmus. But under TLR, I don’t think he’s going to play up.

I think StL is going for it this year, since next year has so much uncertainty.

This is ANOTHER good deal for AA and the Blue Jays.

But with the other pieces on offense, plus the makings of a good pitching staff, the Jays could be ready to compete with the Yankees, Red Sox, and Rays in 2012.

Well, they may be ready to compete with the Rays at least. Unfortunately for the Blue Jays, they’re in the AL East.

everdiso
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everdiso
5 years 1 day ago

being only 2.5gms back, I’d say they were already competing with the Rays.

cpebbles
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cpebbles
5 years 1 day ago

I guess we get to hear again about how amazing Toronto’s GM is, but the simple fact is that Mozeliak is fucking terrible at his job.

everdiso
Member
everdiso
5 years 1 day ago

Hey pebbles, have you head about how amazing Toronto’s GM is? let me tell ya…..

Mark
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Mark
5 years 1 day ago

So that’s Bautista, Escobar, and now Rasmus that were either acquired from the scrap heap, or taken off the hands of teams that disliked them for non-performance reasons? Toronto is the Home of Misfit Players, god bless ’em

everdiso
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everdiso
5 years 1 day ago

..and Morrow.

…and Villanueva, for that matter.

Mike L
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Mike L
5 years 1 day ago

Ricciardi was the one that acquired Bautista. But, AA did sign that ridiculous contract with Bautista, which might’ve been the smarter move of the two.

Temo
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Temo
5 years 1 day ago

Well Morrow hasn’t exactly been great, lets wait on that one.

jirish
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jirish
5 years 1 day ago

Hmm..for a young guy just starting his ML career as a starter he’s actually been pretty good. He sure has the look of a solid rotation member to me.

Someanalyst
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Someanalyst
5 years 1 day ago

It is weird that he has so consistently performed below his peripherals since the Jays acquired him… please, please, please regress Brandon…

ddrezner
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5 years 1 day ago

As a Red Sox fan — and I’ll go out on a limb and say I speak for Yankees and Rays fans as well – could the rest of MLB general managers please PUT THEIR F**I*ING PHONES DOWN when Anthopolous calls? Thanks.

Preston
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Preston
5 years 1 day ago

Seriously. I’m a Yanks fan. And the way AA is mindF***ing other GM’s scares me. Especially since Toronto is not a small market and they will spend money when they have the ability to compete.

josh
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josh
5 years 1 day ago

This often gets overlooked. Others assume Toronto is a small market, but it’s far from it. The city can support the team, the team just has to show it can win on a consistent basis.

Ed Truck
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Ed Truck
5 years 1 day ago

Haha, I love how the implication here is that it doesn’t really matter for the Orioles.

SC2GG
Guest
5 years 1 day ago

The who?

Grebe
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Grebe
5 years 1 day ago

Of course, the Who! It all makes sense now!

See, even though other GMs had said they Won’t Get Fooled Again by AA, he used his Pure and Easy skills to pull off yet another Bargain. So while the Jays ride the Magic Bus back to contention, it’s just Another Tricky Day for everyone else. Proof that there’s no Substitute for a smart GM.

Umm….. Pinball Wizard.

jim
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jim
5 years 1 day ago

a commenter with an office character name that isn’t about how ryan howard’s RBIs make him the best player in baseball? i’m shocked!

Otter
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Otter
5 years 1 day ago

Look I like the deal for the Jays, but Teahen is a horrible baseball player that will be taking up a roster spot next year in Toronto. Yes Rasmus has potential, but having to pay Teahen PLUS have him taking up a roster spot isn’t the best use of resources in 2012. If having to pay Mark Teahen next year is the difference between giving Prince or Pujols that extra 3 or 4 million to sign with the Jays or going else where, then this trade suddenly looks horrible.

Also, Rasmus has nearly 1,500 plate appearances and may or may not have a strike out problem to go along with what may or may not be a very bad glove and a father that may or may not be a problem for the coaching staff. He’s *probably* the best player in the trade, but I don’t think it’s a slam dunk that he is.

Costa
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Costa
5 years 1 day ago

Considering Teahen would be replacing Edwin Encarnacion, they still might be getting a mild upgrade at his roster spot.

j1kim
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j1kim
5 years 1 day ago

AA got rid of Vernon’s deadweight salary and got back Napoli and Rivera.

If he really wanted to, I’m sure he could get some random team to take on Teahen if having his salary puts Toronto in a bind for singing Prince or Pujols.

Cedric
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Cedric
5 years 1 day ago

teahen dont matter. they can cut him to free up the roster spot or they can keep him. the spot he takes up is inconsequential as they can always just remove him from the 25 man roster.

and having to pay teahen next year wont make a difference as to whether or not they sign prince or albert. u see to think that the jays are up against the salary cap or something. right now they only have 35 mil or so committed for next year. ownership has said that rogers can support a 110-120mil team easily. the money that we saved on wells and rios alone can pay for albert or prince’s salary. that extra 3 or 4 mil we’ll be paying teahen wont matter.

plus, teahen’s contract runs out by 2012. jays can just as easily tack on those 3 or 4 mil in the subsequent years and pay prince or albert a little bit less in the first year. and even if they dont, they can defer part of the salary till after the season. guys do it all the time. dodgers still owe manny millions of dollars, agon has some of it deferred etc.

the main point im trying to make is that no team going after prince or albert is going to be short 3 or 4 mil. AA is not an idiot, if he is going to go after those 2, he would have made sure he has the money to get them before making this deal. so the thought of him not being able to sign albert or prince because he’s short a couple million is ridiculous..no team looking to sign those guys will be short money. if the jays cant sign them it’ll be because they dont want to play in canada, not because the jays are short on payroll. the jays are a lot richer than most people realize, they’re just not spending yet cuz they’re waiting for their prospects to break into the majors before splurging.

Cedric
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Cedric
5 years 1 day ago

also forgot to mention, trading frasor, dotel, patterson, rzepczynski pretty much adds up to 7 mil anyways as frasor and dotel were both being paid somewhere in the 3-3.7 mil range. so there’s teahen’s salary right there and it’s nothing to worry about.

i realize frasor and dotel are potential FA (team options) at the end of the season but it’s still money coming off the books so it dont matter if they took on teahen’s contract, they freed up that cash by trading those relievers away.

it also doesnt matter because the jays are way under what they can afford. if they wanted to, they could sign both prince and albert, they actually have that much money. Paul Beeston said as much when he was talking about the jay’s payroll. Rogers can and will bump up payroll in the very near future. AA is just putting the pieces together before they do. Remember, back in 2008 or 2009, the jays had a payroll of 97 mil. Next year they only have 35 or so commited.

CircleChange11
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CircleChange11
5 years 1 day ago

But, they have to replace those guys on their roster, don’t they?

Frasor has been a valuable reliever (~1 WAR/Ssn)
Dotel has been replacement level.
Marc Rzep has been above replacement level
Patterson was above replacement level.

So, if getting rid of those guys freed up $7M, it would probably cost them the same amount to get the same performance level for promotions/acquisitions. That doesn’t count any value Stewart might have in the next season.

TOR has to replace those guys, and it won;t be free, and it might not be at the same performance level.

That’s not to say they won’t be overall better in the near future, but it’s going to cost. Even if they use that 7M for a FA acquisition, they are going to need to replace the pitchers lost. Who are they going to replace them with?

Otter
Guest
Otter
5 years 1 day ago

Teahan clearly does matter since he is going to get paid in 2012. Right now that’s by the Blue Jays. Sure there isn’t a salary cap, but every team has a budget, and Teahen is going to make $5.5 million bucks next year. That’s $5.5 million less to play with for actual baseball players and goes to a guy that in a best case scenario isn’t even playing on the Blue Jays. Worst case for the Jays is that Teahen is on the roster and getting paid $5.5 million to deliver a fifth straight season of negative WAR.

Look I still think the Jays won this deal, but this deal is better for them if Mark Teahen isn’t take up a roster spot since he hasn’t been a major league player in a number of years now, yet gets paid like someone who should be above replacement level. AA had to take on a really really bad contract to get Rasmus, who has issues of his own (though I’m guessing the Cardinals management was the major cause to those issues).

My grades, (which I realize don’t mean anything to anyone…) Jays: B+, White Sox: B, Cardinals: D+
I think the Sox are better in 2012 because of this trade, the Cardinals clearly worse, the Jays probably better assuming that they can still sign one of the big bats. The Cardinals *might* be better in 2011 because of this deal, and I don’t think the White Sox are that much worse off (maybe a win?) in a division that is, sadly, going to take up the playoff spot the Rays should be given.

Cedric
Guest
Cedric
5 years 15 hours ago

circlechange -> if u look at it, most of the jays pen consists of players that were not there last year. as i recall only frasor, camp and janssen remain from last year and janssen doesnt really count cuz he was in the minors for at least a bit of the season last year iirc. either way it wont be hard for them to get some relievers. they have a bunch of players in the minors that can fill that role. it might be hard to replace frasor but dotel is not hard to replace. jury is out on rzepczynski, that guy can strike out the side or give up 3 hits in 5 pitches but even he can be replaced. furthermore, out of the 3 guys that they lost in the pen, 2 of them were potential FA anyways so there was no guarantee that they would have kept them. and im not sure how close walters is to the majors but if he’s near ready then the jays can use him too.

patterson is inconsequential as we dont need 5 outfielders, davis will take over his spot. davis is better defensively from what i’ve seen and is a much better base stealer. patterson getting caught time and again trying to steal 3rd with 1 out had really started to irritate me.

otter -> like i said teahen doesnt matter. he can be cut at any time to free up the roster spot. his remaining salary for this season is irrelevant as he’s going to be getting less than frasor and dotel combined so it’s not like we took on additional salary for this season. as for next season the 5.5mil salary also doesnt matter. like i just said (and a point u seem to have ignored) the jays are way under their budget. right now, bautista/snider/lind/escobar/davis/lawrie/arencibia/all 5 pitchers are all under contract and that only constitutes 35 mil or so. rasmus’ raise will increase that a bit but i dont think rasmus will get more than 2-3 mil which still puts it at under 40. with teahen’s contract, that puts the team at 43-45 mil with most positions filled. they need maybe 2 or 3 relievers depending on if their current prospects are major league ready. but 2 or 3 relievers wont cost more than 9 mil, putting them at 54 mil or so. their payroll this year is 61 mil. so they still have 7 mil to spend with not many spots on the roster to fill. 7 mil will not get u prince or albert but ownership has already said they’ll approve significant signings and increase budget if it’s a move that makes sense. 2 years ago they had a 97 million dollar budget. their payroll did not shrink because ownership demanded budget cuts, it shrank because they got rid of 2 crappy contracts. rios and wells would have cost over 25mil to keep. as it stands they got rid of both of them and replaced them with better players at a fraction of the cost. that’s why their current payroll is so low. like i’ve said before, paul beeston has already said that ownership is more than willing to increase payroll in order to field a competitive team. but AA doesnt feel like it’s the time to spend yet. but once he does make that decision, it will happen. maybe during the next FA period for prince or albert. i doubt those guys would want to come but that doesnt mean the jays cant afford them.

i agree with u that teahen’s contract is garbage. but we really only have to put up with it for a year. and the 5.5 mil he’ll be making next year is not significant enough to restrict what AA can do as the team is way under what their budget can be. and having saved 88 mil over the next 4 season from wells’ contract, the 5.5 mil from teahen next year wont matter. AA still has at least 25-35 mil to play with if he needs it provided that he’s going to use that money wisely so i dont see it as a problem. with the lack of FA starting pitchers in the next FA period, AA can go for prince or albert if he wants. and please stop bringing up how teahen takes up a roster spot as if he’s locked into the roster. the jays dont HAVE to keep him on the roster. they will designate him if they need the spot that he’s taking up.

also, AA knows his budget way better than any of us would, if he’s going after any significant free agents in the next off season, he would not handcuff himself 2 months before it begins. clearly for him, teahen’s contract does not represent an obstacle that would prevent him from signing anyone. 1. 5.5 mil is not that much to the jays when they’re way under what they can afford and will pay for. 2. AA would not have taken teahen if it prevents him from signing players. cuz right now ur only concern is that it will prevent him from signing albert or prince cuz i dont think there are going to be any other players in free agency that will command as high of a salary as they will. but i can guarantee u that any team looking to get either of those players wont be short a couple mil.

SC2GG
Guest
5 years 14 hours ago

No hitter could get one over that wall of text.

CircleChange11
Guest
CircleChange11
5 years 14 hours ago

either way it wont be hard for them to get some relievers.

Every team thinks that, yet each year, relievers are the commodity and bullpens are often the difference between playoffs and not.

Interesting that the teams that have turned it around (SD in 2010, ARZ in 2011) have, in part, done it by solidifying the bullpen.

TOR is lacking in pitching.

My point with that is that they are going to have to fill out the roster with some quality pitching, and it’s not all going to come from the minor leagues. It’s going to eat into the 60M of increased budget. TOR and AA aren’t going to get to “pick and choose” what players they want as if they’re the only team in the shopping center. In some cases they are going to be in the situation of [1] overpaying for players or [2] allowing those players to go to NYY, BOS, PHL, etc.

If the only right answer is that AA will sign some big FA’s to good contracts (Fielder/Pujols, SPs, etc) and that the bullpen will be solidified by promoting cheap, cost-controlled pitchers within the organization …. then I’m willing to be on the wrong side. I don’t think any GM is that good (and one would have to consider what Epstein has done in BOS to be about as close to perfect as one could get).

Once you start making “a list” of everything AA has to do in order to get the team to catch up and surpass NYY and BOS, it quckly becomes a “The Cubs could win the WS list” (of years past), where they need a ‘series of unlikely events’ to make it happen.

That is not a knock on AA or TOR. It’s commentary on the size of the gap they have to overcome with the money they have available and the supply of players they need. They need pitching (and so does everyone else).

everdiso
Member
everdiso
5 years 1 day ago

Now watch the Greek God of Baseball trade Drabek & McGuire for Ubaldo.

Allan
Guest
Allan
5 years 1 day ago

sold.

KissMyPurpleButt
Guest
KissMyPurpleButt
5 years 1 day ago

Sweeet!!!!!

GVeers
Guest
5 years 1 day ago

Is it time to start thinking of AA’s recent run as an all-time great among GMs? Dumping Wells, signing Bautista, and snagging Escobar and Rasmus on the cheap – how many GMs can claim such a string of unambiguous victories in such a short span?

Brandon
Guest
Brandon
5 years 1 day ago

Friedman has topped it by a loooong stretch, although AA is well on his way. Kazmir for Sean Rod & $$$ & non-negative WAR, Aubrey Huff for Ben Zobrist, Delmon Young for Garza/Bartlett, Joey Gathright for JP Howell, signed Carlos Pena, Evan to his great team deal, Shields to his great team deal. Drafted Evan, Price, Desmond Jennings etc. Rarely has he also been given the opportunity to add much payroll in his trades..

someanalyst
Guest
someanalyst
5 years 1 day ago

Agreed. AA is looking great but Friedman actually is what Beane was supposed to be.

JRoss
Guest
JRoss
5 years 1 day ago

Every time lately the Rays are linked to a player, the Jays swoop in for the steal. Its starting to get annoying.

Otter
Guest
Otter
5 years 1 day ago

He had to take back maybe the most useless major league player who gets paid a decent salary to get Rasmus (depending on how you feel about Alex Rios)! Let’s calm down here people.

Sox2727
Guest
Sox2727
5 years 1 day ago

If you had to choose between one useless player getting paid a little of $7mil from now until the end of 2012, and a useless player getting paid $40+mil through 2014 which would you choose?

SOMEONE PLEASE TAKE ALEX RIOS!

Greg W
Guest
Greg W
5 years 1 day ago

Funny, YOU took Alex Rios, and didn’t give anything to get him, either. Turns out their was a reason for that.

sc2gg
Guest
5 years 1 day ago

It was indeed a trade, the Blue Jays traded Rios to the Sox in exchange for their respectability.

fredbird
Guest
fredbird
5 years 1 day ago

I guess Colby is taking Daddy along to coach him?

Josh
Guest
Josh
5 years 1 day ago

What does this mean for Anthony Gose?

SC2GG
Guest
5 years 1 day ago

He’s said to be 2+ yrs away from the majors as it is. So, plenty of time to figure that out.

NEPP
Guest
NEPP
5 years 1 day ago

Rasmus could move to one of the corners when that happens. Its not like he’s a great defender anyway…not nearly at Gose’s level anyway.

Kirkwood
Member
Kirkwood
5 years 1 day ago

“Hi, Dan O’Dowd? Hey, it’s Alex f***ing Anthopoulos. So, about Ubaldo…”

Dan O'Dowd
Guest
Dan O'Dowd
5 years 1 day ago

Look Alex you can’t have Ubaldo, unless you agree to throw Teahan in for Ian Stewart

Alex
Guest
Alex
5 years 1 day ago

throw in tulo for hechevarria and you’ve got a deal

baty
Guest
baty
5 years 1 day ago

I was never a big Rasmus believer, but if in the end the St. Louis choice was LaRussa over Rasmus, I don’t get it. The Cardinals are putting themselves in very curious territory for next season.

NEPP
Guest
NEPP
5 years 1 day ago

Go look at his Home/Road splits and then go look at Toronto’s park factor…Rasmus is gonna rake north of the border. STL has been killing his offense.

baty
Guest
baty
5 years 22 hours ago

I’m not seeing that dramatic a difference between his H/R splits, but maybe I’m missing something… I’m most interested in seeing his progression against LHPs. He seems to be really figuring that part of his game out.

Honestly his run with the Cards was so streaky and off the wall, I can’t help but glaze over his numbers.

Jeff Akston
Guest
Jeff Akston
5 years 1 day ago

Shouldn’t also be noted that Joe P didn’t mention who was playing DH or 2b.

Well, with the Blue Jays flexibility, they could realistically sign Brandon Phillips for 2b, and Fielder for DH/1B.

They saved $20MM by getting rid of Wells, and aside from Bautista, nobody is going to make more than $5MM next year. This team could add some big meat next year.

I think for a .500 team this year, they have some upside. Unfortunately for them, there really aren’t many good SPs who will be available, and they need depth behind Morrow and Romero.

lolololool
Guest
lolololool
5 years 1 day ago

Drabek could figure things out. Litsch can be a 5th starter, Cecil is pitching much better of late and can be a good 3/4. I think they’re one more 2/3rd starter away from having a pretty good rotation.

Matt
Guest
Matt
5 years 1 day ago

Then he makes a trade to acquire a pitcher… Pretty simple! You think AA can only steal position players?

Preston
Guest
Preston
5 years 1 day ago

I very doubt that the Reds won’t either pick up Phillips option or bring him back. Fielder would be an intriguing pick up.
SS Escobar
CF Rasmus
RF Bautista
DH Fielder
1B Lind
3B Lawrie/Tehan
LF Snider/Tehan
C Arencibia/D’Arnaud
2B Miles?

That’s a line-up that can give the Yanks and Sox a run for there money as the best offense in baseball. And if Drabek gets it together they could have a pretty good 1-3 in the rotation.

Matt
Guest
Matt
5 years 1 day ago

Move Yunel to 2nd, add Jose Reyes to SS, and put Thames as the DH.

Reyes SS
Rasmus CF
Bautista RF
Lind 1st
Escobar 2nd
Thames DH
Lawrie 3rd
Snider LF
Arencibia C

Apple Core
Guest
Apple Core
5 years 1 day ago

You spelled “Rzepczynski” right and “Marc” wrong, silly buns.

ecp
Guest
ecp
5 years 1 day ago

This trade is good for everybody except the Cardinals. What the blue blazes is Mozeliak drinking today?

Preston
Guest
Preston
5 years 1 day ago

This trade is fine for the White Sox, dumping the Salary of Jackson/Tehan for a good reliever and solid SP prospect. Until you realize that Jackson was basically traded straight up for Rasmus about an hour later.

CircleChange11
Guest
CircleChange11
5 years 1 day ago

That’s the only real downside for the CWS … Rasmus would have allowed either Rios or Pierre and their significantly negative WAR to get the Hell out of the lineup. But, Oz and KW probably feel Pierre will regress to his above average WAR in 2012. Yippee.

Otter
Guest
Otter
5 years 1 day ago

That’s not true since the Cardinals seem to have wanted some bullpen arms and a veteran outfielder. Unless the Sox could have trade Rios and Jackson for Rasmus, I don’t think you can say the Sox could have gotten Colby.

Ozzie Guillen
Guest
Ozzie Guillen
5 years 1 day ago

@CircleChange11: What’s this WAR you’re speaking of?

CircleChange11
Guest
CircleChange11
5 years 1 day ago

Imagine Rasmus and Dad trying to coexist with Ozzie and Kenny.

It’s almost a shame it didn’t happen.

someanalyst
Guest
someanalyst
5 years 1 day ago

@Ozzie Guillen: It seems awful: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War

test
Guest
test
5 years 1 day ago

The Jays have no use for Teahen, nor should any major league team trying to do more than fill out 25 roster spots with vaguely recognizable names. I hope/guess they just cut him and eat the money. Teahen is fine except that he can’t hit, isn’t good defensively, and doesn’t run the bases well. So yeah, no need to hold onto the roster spot for him next year at all.

Yay Rasmus! If he ends up just sticking at his level this year, it’s a major upgrade for the Jays. And if he gets back to 2010 performances, watch out!

Bill
Guest
Bill
5 years 1 day ago

To continue to beat a dead horse, he could trade Teahen to Anaheim.

Dan O'Dowd
Guest
Dan O'Dowd
5 years 1 day ago

Is Teahan really that much worse than Bautista was when they got him?

KKC
Guest
KKC
5 years 1 day ago

Teahan is Canadian though, the Jays will find some use for him.

Mike
Guest
Mike
5 years 1 day ago

Or Californian. Same difference, really.

CircleChange11
Guest
CircleChange11
5 years 1 day ago

Classic.

everdiso
Member
everdiso
5 years 1 day ago

actually, Teahen does own himself a canuck passport.

brendan
Guest
brendan
5 years 1 day ago

he DID play for team canada though in the WBC, he has some sort of canadian connection

baty
Guest
baty
5 years 1 day ago

@ brendan

sure, but didn’t Piazza play for team Italy? haha… what a joke

Geoff
Guest
Geoff
5 years 1 day ago

@brendan, his dad is Canadian I believe.

everdiso
Member
everdiso
5 years 1 day ago

Teahen’s dad is a canadian, and he is a dual citizen, who plays for Team Canada.

Chutley
Guest
Chutley
5 years 1 day ago

Who is the worst manager in baseball. Scioscia or LaRussa?

Mark Doo
Guest
Mark Doo
5 years 1 day ago

Good question. Scosia is prob the worst.

NEPP
Guest
NEPP
5 years 1 day ago

You spelled Fredi Gonzalez wrong.

sc2gg
Guest
5 years 1 day ago

Jim Riggleman. Oh, wait a minute…

jim
Guest
jim
5 years 1 day ago

that’s a trick question: it’s jim tracy

CircleChange11
Guest
CircleChange11
5 years 1 day ago

The trade rumors for Rasmus for Edwin Jackson surfaces a little more than a week ago … and both teams (CWS and STL) would have likely been able to work out a deal that both teams could live with.

Credit AA for getting in the middle of it. He could have easily just assumed that both teams had a “deal in place”, since the CWS had what StL was looking for SP/RP. That’s a helluva move for him getting involved.

I think KW did pretty well in this deal too. Traded EJax wwho was likely gone after the 2011 season, and got a solid reliver and young SP back in return. As well, he got rids of one of his mistakes (Teahen) and created an opening for 1 of the 2 decent 3B prospects in the organization.

IMO, if the Cardinals are able to sign EJax to a team friendly extension, and he and moving McLellan back to the bullpen with the addition of Dotel helps them win the division and make the playoffs … they, as an organization, can probably live without Rasmus. I’m not the biggest Jon Jay fan around, but if you look at value metrics, StL isn;t going to experience a huge dropoff in performance. What is being decreased is the “potential”, but that’s only if you view Rasmus as a .280-25-85 type guy, which I do not think he is. If Jay turns out to be a 3 WAR CF, then it’s no big loss.

baty
Guest
baty
5 years 1 day ago

Well, even though it was a salary dump for the White Sox, to me this whispers that the White Sox are going for it this year. If they really wanted Rasmus, they could have parted with a couple relief pitchers to possibly acquire him, but that would completely incapacitate their bullpen. So, the Sox took an extra SP slot they had and bolstered the bullpen for a playoff run.

Maybe there’s some Don Cooper magic left for Zach Stewart, but I can’t see him being any better than a 5th starter quality arm right now… most likely a future bullpen arm

JohnnyComeLately
Guest
JohnnyComeLately
5 years 1 day ago

“IMO, if the Cardinals are able to sign EJax to a team friendly extension”

I’m pretty sure Jackson has Scott Boras as an agent, so I wouldn’t count on him signing a team friendly extension.

Barkey Walker
Guest
Barkey Walker
5 years 1 day ago

Would have been nice to see the NPV of this trade from all sides.

BillWallace
Member
BillWallace
5 years 1 day ago

Not if you’re a Cardinals fan.

CircleChange11
Guest
CircleChange11
5 years 1 day ago

This could be one of those trades, like the ARZ-NYY-DET trade of last year, where the “loser” of the trade looks a little better a year or so down the line.

As a Rasmus fan, I’ve continually undervalued Jay and Craig. Jackson is still a very good pitcher, even though FG doesn’t like him. This’ll be the 3rd straight year he puts up 3.5+ WAR.

It also must be somewhat apparent, that Rasmus probably isn’t going to be the .280-25 HR type budding star with good CF defense … but is probably more along the lines of .260-20 with average to below defense.

I haven’t been the biggest Jon Jay fan, but it’s hard to argue with his performance. Everyone keeps waiting for his BABIP to collapse, and expose him as a “4th outfielder”. But, that might not happen to a large degree. He may turn out to be a 3 WAR everyday OF for next few seasons.

It really all comes down to how one views Rasmus’s “potential”. I don;t think any/many of us really know where that is. With his normal BABIP, he’s a solid 3 WAR CF. If Jay turns out to be of similar value, it won’t be a big loss. If the Cards make the playoffs this year, they’ll need Jackson in the playoffs, and the strengthened bullpen … which might be preferable to playing for a future that’s as uncertain as it gets in StL. Pujols, Berkman, Wainwright, Carpenter, LaRussa, etc … there’s a lot of questions and the only certain thing to really play for is 2011.

—————————–

As a side note, it’s unfortunate that the off-field Rasmus stuff has played out like this. But, it might also mark a “new breed” of young player. As we saw with Chris (?) and Tim Lincecum, there are young and talented players that are coming with provisions. “Don;t touch his mechanics/swing”. With more and more young players having batting/pitching coaches that are separate (i.e., private) from their team coaches, this might be more prevalent. Consider the cases of Torres and Zobrist who went outside of the organization for instruction, and this might be a scenario that becomes more commonplace in MLB. That’ll be interesting to watch.

someanalyst
Guest
someanalyst
5 years 1 day ago

Very interesting point about outside coaching… could change a bunch of dynamics within teams. Would be very bad news for certain management styles. I guess the management reaction would be, when a player like that hits a slump: if we can’t coach him, let’s demote him and let his “people” figure it out between bus rides.

BlueJays
Guest
BlueJays
5 years 1 day ago

We ballin’

Straight up ballin’

We ballin’

Straight up ballin’

mikee15
Member
mikee15
5 years 1 day ago

Kevin Goldstein was tweeting that he figures there must be something more to Rasmus’ issues in St. Louis than what has been said since Toronto got him for, seemingly, so less. Wouldn’t other teams have been able to match that?

But to that I say, how many team would be willing to give St. Louis something that will help them now? I mean, I doubt many teams would be willing to part with a number 3 starter, 2 pretty good relievers, and a 4th outfielder.

Scott
Guest
Scott
5 years 1 day ago

According to a Jays tweet , they are also guving up :

…and three players to be named later or cash considerations to the St. Louis Cardinals.

Geoff
Guest
Geoff
5 years 1 day ago

Probably something from the scrap heap. I can’t see it being anyone of note like a Gose or Drabek.

baty
Guest
baty
5 years 1 day ago

Usually a player to be named later is scrap, but sometimes can’t it be a recent draft pick that isn’t yet eligible to be traded?

someanalyst
Guest
someanalyst
5 years 1 day ago

Recent Jays behaviour suggests that this will probably wind up being cash.

BoeyJats
Guest
BoeyJats
5 years 1 day ago

We cannot forget about Eric Thames! He has shown he can get a lot done for us. I really don’t see a trade for phillips or fielder happening in this dimension either. I wish we had a time machine so we could have shipped Hill after his all star appearance. I have always been a Hill fan, but I think we need more consistency from 2b. These young guys look very promising though.

Hayves
Guest
Hayves
5 years 14 hours ago

They won’t need to trade for Phillips or Fielder…

Larry
Guest
Larry
5 years 1 day ago

If they do expand the playoffs though, wouldn’t it totally be worth it for the Jays to make a run at Pujols? also, maybe AA can offer straight cash to the Dodgers and steal some more players lol

Daniel
Guest
Daniel
5 years 1 day ago

I’d say the success of this trades hinges completely on whether Daddy Rasmus has a passport.

Bill
Guest
Bill
5 years 1 day ago

The Anthopolous lovefest is becoming nauseating.

They won’t make the playoffs in the next 5 years.

Statement
Guest
Statement
5 years 1 day ago

Stankee hater.

You’re just jealous of people with brains.

Kris
Guest
5 years 1 day ago

What exactly do you expect the lovely people of Toronto to celebrate? If we concerned ourselves with whether Alex’s trades or Jose’s bombs would help the team compete immediately, we’d be pretty sad people.

We’re not idiots, we can look at the Red Sox, Yankees, and Rays rosters. But if you don’t celebrate Alex and Jose doing their job well, you’re basically going to have to sit back and bitch about Corey Patterson and that gets old after about 3 weeks.

Toronto’s getting excited and you can see the hope in the eyes of the peeps up in this joint. It’s not because we expect to win the WS, it’s because we see that everyone with the organization is actually trying their bestest.

Tom Jackson
Guest
Tom Jackson
5 years 1 day ago

Shhh Kris! Stick with the “Howdy amigos, we’re you’re friendly, village idiot neighbours to the north” theme. It’s easier to sneak up on them that way. Kidding guys. Kidding.

This team has an outside chance next year, but is set up really nicely for a sustained run starting in 2013. After back to back bumbling GM regimes on the heels of back to back World Championships, it feels awesome to have someone in charge who appears to really know what they’re doing. If that makes some people feel nauseated so be it. Feel free to grab a bucket: nobody’s stopping you. But your nausea will not stifle this fan’s joy that things appear to be FINALLY heading in the right direction. That’s all I need as a fan. Show me that you’re doing everything you can to make the team better, and I’ll be even more on board than my normal fanatic status. For some people that means huge free agent ticket signings. If you can sign really good players to three or four years with a higher AAV, I’m good with it. Seven to ten year deals? Not a fan at all. Rather spend a whack of dough on amateur talent and young big league talent, than talent that’s on the wrong side of the aging curve.

Bill, that “They won’t make the playoffs in the next five years” refrain is exactly what was being said before 1985. It didn’t turn out to be true then, and I have a hunch/inkling that it’s not going to turn out to be true in the next five years either. You’re 1,000% entitled to your opinion though, and I’m 1,000% entitled to disagree with you. ;)

Bill
Guest
Bill
5 years 13 hours ago

Fair enough. Tone it down a bit at least.

someanalyst
Guest
someanalyst
5 years 1 day ago

That statement will likely make you look like an idiot in the medium term. I hope you manage to derive pleasure from it now. Hurry.

J0EYWALNUTS
Guest
J0EYWALNUTS
5 years 1 day ago

This isn’t rape. It’s RAPE RAPE

hatter
Guest
hatter
5 years 1 day ago

rasmus = cancer

CircleChange11
Guest
CircleChange11
5 years 1 day ago

JD Drew was deemed to be the same thing, only to a larger degree. Drew never really turned out to be the team cancer, refuse to play hurt, type of guy that StL made him out to be (same with Scott Rolen). Drew put up a ~9 WAR season with ATL in his first year.

It’s hard to know exact situations when you only really hear from manager and media.

The difference with the Drew trade is that Wainwright came back in return. StL had Reggie Sanders replace Drew, then hit it with Larry Walker, followed by Juan Encarnacion, before hit the luck truck with Ryan Ludwick (coinciding with Edmonds end). Jim Edmonds in CF, both in the field and at the plate, made RF less important.

It’s hard for me to take TLR’s assessment of Rasmus …. when he’s had similar feelings about Drew and Rolen, both of whom continued to be really productive players after leaving StL, and you rarely hear of either guy being a “cancer”. TLR isn’t exactly the easiest guy to get along with.

Skeptical Bob
Guest
Skeptical Bob
5 years 1 day ago

Cheers to the Blue Jays on being the best damn fourth-place team they can be over the next several seasons.

Tom Jackson
Guest
Tom Jackson
5 years 1 day ago

…And I’m sure everyone said “Cheers to the (at the time) Devil Rays for being the best damn cellar dwellers they can be” every year before 2008 happened…And then oh look, 2010 happened too. Baseball is like life: nothing stays the same forever. While the Jays’ progress is not visible at the big league level yet, the overhaul that has happened to the organization as a whole over the 22 months that AA has been in charge is pretty freakin’ remarkable. Just because some folks can’t see it, doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened.

Cedric
Guest
Cedric
5 years 1 day ago

listen guys, it’s a bad trade for the cardinals no matter how u look at it. yes, they may have gotten some solid pitchers that can help them but the main thing to point out is that they could have gotten more for rasmus. i havent seen one person claim that what the jays offered was the most the cardinals could have gotten from rasmus cuz it’s simply not true. so with that in mind, it is definitely a bad trade because they didnt maximize their return. center fielders with average to above average defense and solid power dont grow on trees. look at how many teams are interested in bj upton and that guy flirts with the mendoza line every year.

as for people hating on the fact that the jays might not make the playoffs…who cares? i seem to recall when the rays beat the yankees to clinch a playoff spot a few years ago with a non existant (relatively speaking) budget. further to this, just because they’re not in contention now doesnt mean they shouldnt try to make moves. Every trade that AA has made has resulted in the other team getting ripped off except for the lawrie trade as the jury is still out on that. but marcum is having a solid year so i dont think anyhting lawrie does will top it. but AA has proven that he knows what he’s doing better than a lot of other gms. so while the jays might not be in contention right now and might not be in contention next year, AA will definitely get them there at some point. it’d be real hard for him to accumulate so much talent and not win ball games with it. that being said, he needs to get a solid starting pitcher…but i am reading that the jays have an outside chance on ubaldo.

CircleChange11
Guest
CircleChange11
5 years 1 day ago

but the main thing to point out is that they could have gotten more for rasmus.

What were the other offers/scenarios?

I ask because we haven;t seen, in recent years, teams get a ton in trades like this.

The Cardinals got both starting and relief pitching help, and replaced Rasmus with a roster player that is producing at a similar rate.

This trade hurts the cardinals if [1] Rasmus turns out to be what he was once thought to be, [2] the Cards don’t make the playoffs.

It’s doubtful that Rasmus’s production is the difference between playoffs and not, but it is entirely realistic that increased performance in pitching (starting and relieving via chaining) is.

The other players that made some sense for StL, such as Heath Bell, had reportedly very high asking prices.

I’m curious as to what Atlanta might have offered for Rasmus. I haven’t seen/heard other possible offers for Rasmus.

ddriver80
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ddriver80
4 years 11 months ago

Weren’t the Rays offering Cobb/Niemann?

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