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	<title>Comments on: Do the Mariners Prove that Fielding is Overvalued?</title>
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		<title>By: rwerrtrterwerert</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/do-the-mariners-prove-that-fielding-is-overvalued/#comment-324402</link>
		<dc:creator>rwerrtrterwerert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Nov 2010 09:26:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=27247#comment-324402</guid>
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		<title>By: CircleChange11</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/do-the-mariners-prove-that-fielding-is-overvalued/#comment-210888</link>
		<dc:creator>CircleChange11</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Aug 2010 20:19:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=27247#comment-210888</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I would think HR power is more important in HIGH scoring games.

In low scoring games, you better be able to advance runners, or better yet have them advance themselves (stealing bases, taking extra bases) to put yourself in more situations where you can score runs while making an out.

A good example is Tommy Herr for the 85 Cardinals, he racked up 100 RBIs with many of them being the rsult of groundballs to second base with Coleman or Ozzie on 3rd.

HRs are always going to have a big impact in regards to immediate scoring, but there greatest value is with runners on base (duh). But, overall, a team&#039;s strategy of home runs in a low scoring environment is probably not good. Home runs generally ar ean indicator of a high scoring environment. A team with HR hitters will also have quite a few doubles. It&#039;s not either or, you either have power hitters or you don&#039;t.

In low scoring environments, getting the leadoff hitter on base is the key, and advancing him. If you&#039;re not going to have guys that are able to walk, then you better have a bunch of ichiros at the top.

Teams with fast players will also see them getting themsevles in scoring position with doubles and triples. That was one of the big keys to Granderson breakout season,where he 20+ triples. He put the team in a situation where he can score on essentially ANY BIP. Hence the value of a high contact guy like POlanco hitting behind him .... the most recent version of &quot;Tommy Herr&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would think HR power is more important in HIGH scoring games.</p>
<p>In low scoring games, you better be able to advance runners, or better yet have them advance themselves (stealing bases, taking extra bases) to put yourself in more situations where you can score runs while making an out.</p>
<p>A good example is Tommy Herr for the 85 Cardinals, he racked up 100 RBIs with many of them being the rsult of groundballs to second base with Coleman or Ozzie on 3rd.</p>
<p>HRs are always going to have a big impact in regards to immediate scoring, but there greatest value is with runners on base (duh). But, overall, a team&#8217;s strategy of home runs in a low scoring environment is probably not good. Home runs generally ar ean indicator of a high scoring environment. A team with HR hitters will also have quite a few doubles. It&#8217;s not either or, you either have power hitters or you don&#8217;t.</p>
<p>In low scoring environments, getting the leadoff hitter on base is the key, and advancing him. If you&#8217;re not going to have guys that are able to walk, then you better have a bunch of ichiros at the top.</p>
<p>Teams with fast players will also see them getting themsevles in scoring position with doubles and triples. That was one of the big keys to Granderson breakout season,where he 20+ triples. He put the team in a situation where he can score on essentially ANY BIP. Hence the value of a high contact guy like POlanco hitting behind him &#8230;. the most recent version of &#8220;Tommy Herr&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: pft</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/do-the-mariners-prove-that-fielding-is-overvalued/#comment-210491</link>
		<dc:creator>pft</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Aug 2010 07:00:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=27247#comment-210491</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If you think about, when it is tough to string together hits or walks because you face good pitching, or have a terrible lineup, what is the only hit that always results in a run scored?.

Need any help?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you think about, when it is tough to string together hits or walks because you face good pitching, or have a terrible lineup, what is the only hit that always results in a run scored?.</p>
<p>Need any help?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Joey B</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/do-the-mariners-prove-that-fielding-is-overvalued/#comment-207210</link>
		<dc:creator>Joey B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 18:28:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=27247#comment-207210</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[1-Law of diminishing returns-Putting world class speed and defense in between Manny and Nixon will save more runs than putting the same guy between Ellsbury and Drew.

2-Players should be picked based on overall contribution, not just one category.

3-With the season almost 2/3 over, they have no double-digit HR hitters.  Worse yet, that is not surprising.  They took a team that finished last in OPS, and replaced Beltre with Figgins and Branyan with Kotchman.  So a team that finished last in OPS by 8 points is now last by 57 points.  Again, not surprising.

4-I have no proof, but does anyone else suspect that Figgins and Lopez are having sub-par offensive seasons because they both forced to switch positions?

5-I think Jack Z read too much of his own press clippings last year.  They won 85 &#039;with defense&#039;, and maybe implied that the offensive side was unimportant.  But in the 9 years prior to that, the team that finished last in offense never won more than 75 games, and 8 of the teams won less than 70, and 3 of the teams won less than 60.  In fact the average worst offensive team over the past 10 years has had a record of 65-97.  Assuming that those teams had at least some defense and pitching, there is no amount of defense and pitching that will make up for AAA offense.

6-TB has the defensive efficiency and the best runs allowed in the league.  But if you combined their world-class defense and pitching (3.88 RPG) with the Seattle offense of 3.29, maybe they&#039;d win 75 games.

It&#039;s impossible to completely ignore one facet of the game and expect to win.  I still think defense is underrated, but you won&#039;t win by fielding 9 shortstops.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1-Law of diminishing returns-Putting world class speed and defense in between Manny and Nixon will save more runs than putting the same guy between Ellsbury and Drew.</p>
<p>2-Players should be picked based on overall contribution, not just one category.</p>
<p>3-With the season almost 2/3 over, they have no double-digit HR hitters.  Worse yet, that is not surprising.  They took a team that finished last in OPS, and replaced Beltre with Figgins and Branyan with Kotchman.  So a team that finished last in OPS by 8 points is now last by 57 points.  Again, not surprising.</p>
<p>4-I have no proof, but does anyone else suspect that Figgins and Lopez are having sub-par offensive seasons because they both forced to switch positions?</p>
<p>5-I think Jack Z read too much of his own press clippings last year.  They won 85 &#8216;with defense&#8217;, and maybe implied that the offensive side was unimportant.  But in the 9 years prior to that, the team that finished last in offense never won more than 75 games, and 8 of the teams won less than 70, and 3 of the teams won less than 60.  In fact the average worst offensive team over the past 10 years has had a record of 65-97.  Assuming that those teams had at least some defense and pitching, there is no amount of defense and pitching that will make up for AAA offense.</p>
<p>6-TB has the defensive efficiency and the best runs allowed in the league.  But if you combined their world-class defense and pitching (3.88 RPG) with the Seattle offense of 3.29, maybe they&#8217;d win 75 games.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s impossible to completely ignore one facet of the game and expect to win.  I still think defense is underrated, but you won&#8217;t win by fielding 9 shortstops.</p>
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		<title>By: CircleChange11</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/do-the-mariners-prove-that-fielding-is-overvalued/#comment-207182</link>
		<dc:creator>CircleChange11</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 18:01:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=27247#comment-207182</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In examining the phrase &quot;defense wins championships&quot;, one only has to look at the best defensive teams throughout history and note how mnay championships they have won.

Baseball teams, generally, have similar runs against per game numbers. How many fewer runs per game do the best defensive teams allow, and how many runs do they score?

I&#039;d imagine that the best defensive teams in the game MAY allow a single fewer run per game than the average team. But, they would need to likely score the average number of runs per game to make that advantage pay off in wins, to accumulate enough to &quot;make it worth it&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In examining the phrase &#8220;defense wins championships&#8221;, one only has to look at the best defensive teams throughout history and note how mnay championships they have won.</p>
<p>Baseball teams, generally, have similar runs against per game numbers. How many fewer runs per game do the best defensive teams allow, and how many runs do they score?</p>
<p>I&#8217;d imagine that the best defensive teams in the game MAY allow a single fewer run per game than the average team. But, they would need to likely score the average number of runs per game to make that advantage pay off in wins, to accumulate enough to &#8220;make it worth it&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: vivaelpujols</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/do-the-mariners-prove-that-fielding-is-overvalued/#comment-207171</link>
		<dc:creator>vivaelpujols</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 17:43:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=27247#comment-207171</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Okay, I understand what he is saying.  I&#039;m just asking if this statement:

&quot;Adding more and more of any one aspect becomes diminishing, since being a great baseball team often requires decent balance amond aspects.&quot;

Is actually true.  CC quoted me the BPro chapter, so I guess I&#039;ll accept that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, I understand what he is saying.  I&#8217;m just asking if this statement:</p>
<p>&#8220;Adding more and more of any one aspect becomes diminishing, since being a great baseball team often requires decent balance amond aspects.&#8221;</p>
<p>Is actually true.  CC quoted me the BPro chapter, so I guess I&#8217;ll accept that.</p>
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		<title>By: CircleChange11</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/do-the-mariners-prove-that-fielding-is-overvalued/#comment-207148</link>
		<dc:creator>CircleChange11</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 17:06:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=27247#comment-207148</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We&#039;ve talked about that type of thing before, even using power hitting or on base guys as an example.

Adding more and more of any one aspect becomes diminishing, since being a great baseball team often requires decent balance amond aspects.

BP&#039;s book BTN, exmained teams that were &quot;one aspect&quot; heavy and compared them to &quot;more balanced teams&quot;, and most often the balanced teams previaled.

It was in their chapter &quot;Can you have too much pitching?&quot;. The answer to all &quot;Can you have too much XYZ?&quot; questions is &quot;Yes, you cna have too much&quot;, and it&#039;s for the diminishing value factor that&#039;s being discussed here.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;ve talked about that type of thing before, even using power hitting or on base guys as an example.</p>
<p>Adding more and more of any one aspect becomes diminishing, since being a great baseball team often requires decent balance amond aspects.</p>
<p>BP&#8217;s book BTN, exmained teams that were &#8220;one aspect&#8221; heavy and compared them to &#8220;more balanced teams&#8221;, and most often the balanced teams previaled.</p>
<p>It was in their chapter &#8220;Can you have too much pitching?&#8221;. The answer to all &#8220;Can you have too much XYZ?&#8221; questions is &#8220;Yes, you cna have too much&#8221;, and it&#8217;s for the diminishing value factor that&#8217;s being discussed here.</p>
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