Doing the Homework on Greinke and Quentin

The biggest baseball event of Thursday night came outside of game action. In the top of the sixth inning of the Dodgers-Padres game in San Diego, Zack Greinke hit Carlos Quentin with a fastball on the wrist on a 3-2 count. After one step towards the mound, Quentin bull-rushed Greinke. As Quentin charged, Greinke threw his shoulder into Quentin’s body, and the result was a broken collarbone for the Dodgers’ starter. There is no timetable for Greinke to return to the mound; he will be examined by doctor Neal El Attrache on Friday.

Although we occasionally see this kind of aggressiveness from players without any prior provocation, it usually indicates some sort of history, either between player and team. A look into the pair’s past suggests there was already tension brewing, and said tension came entirely from Quentin’s end.

Greinke faced Quentin 28 times from 2008 through 2010, when Greinke was a Royal and Quentin a member of the White Sox. Twice, Quentin was hit by a Greinke pitch. The first came July 18th, 2008 as part of a six-run second inning. Greinke hit Quentin, the third batter of the game, with a pitch to the load the bases. Quentin would later homer off Greinke, but no tension of any kind was reported in any of the game recaps I could find.

Things were not so clean on April 8th, 2009, when Greinke hit Quentin with a 1-1 fastball with the bases empty. Greinke had already thrown a pitch high-and-tight in the pair’s first face-off of the day, a swinging strikeout for Quentin. Greinke hit Quentin between the shoulder blades with his third pitch of the next at-bat, and Quentin took a step towards the mound — much like he did Thursday night — but was stopped by home plate umpire Bill Hohn before anything could escalate, according to the Topeka Capital-Journal

Quentin almost certainly had the feeling Greinke was gunning for him. If Quentin just saw the latter half of Greinke’s post-game quotes, it could have stoked the fire. “It happens. You hit guys sometimes,” Greinke said. Quentin may have regarded a few near misses against his former White Sox teammates during Greinke’s time in Kansas City as malicious

But it’s hard to imagine Greinke was actually throwing at Quentin. If the partial quote above sounds cold, it’s just the way he talks about these things. Here’s the first half: “The first at-bat kind of scared me because you never want to do that to anyone.” And although Greinke picked up strike one on an inside pitch, he would need awfully poor control to miss this poorly on the first two pitches if he were actually aiming for the 6-foot-2, 235 pound outfielder. I was unable to find any post-game comments from Quentin.

To think Greinke was gunning for Quentin in the sixth inning Thursday night seems just as absurd. Quentin was hit by the sixth pitch of the at-bat, four of which were on or outside the outside corner of the plate. Quentin was the leadoff hitter in a one-run game. His pinch runner, Alexi Amarista, eventually scored the tying run. Neither the situation nor the pitch selection suggests intent at all.

But judging by Quentin’s post-game comments, he sensed something malicious from the Dodgers’ righty in the past. Via MLB.com’s Corey Brock:

“It’s unfortunate about the situation,” Quentin said. “It could have been avoided. You can ask Zack about that. For me, I’ve been hit by many pitches in my career. I think you guys know that. I can tell you I’ve never responded in that fashion, so you guys can do your homework on that. For me, the situation is done. That’s it.”

Quentin is vague, but it seems like he must be referencing the April 2009 game. And if so, Quentin seems extremely, extremely petty. Was there something said after one of the pitches? It’s the only way I could see Quentin having anything approaching a legitimate beef. As is — and I’ve done the homework — Quentin’s actions not only appear malicious, but completely unjustified as well.



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lester bangs
Guest
lester bangs
3 years 2 months ago

It definitely looked like Greinke said something after Thursday’s pitch that hit Quentin, but no one knows what he said, other than the guys around the plate.

AA
Guest
AA
3 years 2 months ago

Yeah, he was pissed that he missed his pitch and hit the guy instead of striking him out. The only thing he said in Quentin’s direction was when the guy was charging him.

Sparkles Peterson
Guest
Sparkles Peterson
3 years 2 months ago

He said something after Quentin stepped forward and yelled, before he charged him.

dutchbrowncoat
Member
dutchbrowncoat
3 years 2 months ago
Sparkles Peterson
Guest
Sparkles Peterson
3 years 2 months ago

Nope, I’m incorrect. He just stepped forward, didn’t say anything.

stan
Guest
stan
3 years 2 months ago

You were right the first time. He said something before he stepped forward. I understand what everyone wa saying about the situation, but that pitch was way inside and it looked eerily like the inside pitches I saw from Grienke when he was gunning at Quentin a couple of years ago. I can see both sides in this debate. Grienke has never been the brightest guy, so its not out of the question that he might have been gunning for Quentin even though the situation made that a bad proposition in this particular game.

CircleChange11
Guest
CircleChange11
3 years 2 months ago

Look at 1:05 in that video, does Greinke’s posture look anything like someone that trying not to escalate a conflict?

Hell no, he’s as ready to go as TCQ. Greinke says something and then TCQ says something as he’s charging.

It’s clear to me that TCQ has a “WTF?” type reaction after he’s hit and is stepping toward the mound.

At this point Greinke can easily see that TCQ is not happy with being beaned, intentional or not. So, now Greinke has a choice to make … and he chooses to do something that escalates the situation.

Post-game, TCQ has to be the calmest ejected player in history.

IMHO, there’s a lot of “Greinke ball-washing” going on in this thread. We all like ZG, and he’s a great pitcher, but he also has some very “punk-ass” aspects to his personality. He’s very competitive, somewhat abrasive (by reports, obviously I don;t know the guy) … so for people to suggest that he couldn’t have possibly done anything to cause the charging is naive.

Tvators
Guest
Tvators
3 years 2 months ago

He probably said stop whining and hgo to first or just simply move out of the way (see NOTgraphs for more colorful langiuage version) Greinke barely even threw the ball inside, Q leaned in and got plunked acted like a tough Guy and greinke said whatever, who cares unless it was about Q’s mom or his sisters sexual promiscuity.

Craigary
Guest
Craigary
3 years 2 months ago

” Grienke has never been the brightest guy,”

Is this comment a joke? Greinke has a reputation for being one of the most cerebral pitchers in baseball, for being a student of the game, for researching hitters to an incredibly detailed degree, even to the point where he studies minor leaguers in his team’s system. I’m honestly kind of stunned at this comment.

Scobes15
Guest
Scobes15
3 years 2 months ago

“Grienke has never been the brightest guy…”

Do you have evidence of this or are you just going off the societal narrative of clinically diagnosed mental disorders? Greinke, in actuality, is known to be incredibly bright and thoughtful, and a sponge for information.

NATS Fan
Guest
NATS Fan
3 years 2 months ago

I was watching that game because I have a couple of Dodgers on my fantasy team, and I am not a fan of either team. What I saw puts the blame for the entire situation mostly with Greinke. The pitch looked deliberate. Right on the wrist. A previous pitch had also gone in the same spot but Quentin had checked his swing and it was ruled a swing for a strike. Quentin took one step forward sort of halfway between first and the pitchers mound. Greinke clearly said something to Quentin while stepping off the mound roughly in his direction. The dugouts started to come out as Quentin charged. Greinke made zero attempt to get out of Quentin’s way but rather braced himself for the charge. It looked like Greinke was all up for the fight. But, then Quentin hit him so hard it knocked him back a few feet. By then, both dugouts were there. Greinke got tackled by most of the Dodger team. It looked like it was what Greinke said they got the two dugouts coming out. I honestly do not believe that this fight would have happened if Greinke had not said something after making two attempts to hit Quentin on the wrist. I personally thing Greinke should have been fined because it looked like a blatant attempt to either injure Quentin or at the very least piss him off.

KDL
Guest
KDL
3 years 2 months ago

Maybe it’s because Sullivan’s fun rules that don’t get enforced article is still in my head…but it seems to me Greinke was a little annoyed at the lack of effort to get out of the way of that ball. I mean if pitcher’s can get a head hunting reputation…I imagine guys like Quentin (who has been hit more than anyone recently WHILE only playing about 10 games a season) can gain a reputation for taking a cheap one. It’s a smart move, if you can get the base. But I’d still be pissed off if I were a pitcher facing a guy who regularly does this sort of thing.

Ned
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Ned
3 years 2 months ago

It was a three ball count

Kyle S.
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Kyle S.
3 years 2 months ago

Greinke had two strikes on him. Doesn’t make any sense to throw at a guy when you could strike him out.

stan
Guest
stan
3 years 2 months ago

I believe the numbers say that a 3-2 count is the second best hitters count, after a 3-1 and before 2-0. Someone correct me if I’m wrong.

KDL
Guest
KDL
3 years 2 months ago

3 ball count? Even more reason to be annoyed that a guy who in the past has whined publicly about being hit while hovering over the plate wouldn’t just get out of the way.

…unless Quentin was worried the pitch was a strike since he’s knows he hangs over it and has taken first on HBPs that were in the zone before.

enhanced performance
Guest
enhanced performance
3 years 2 months ago

Grienke deserves what he got. If you don’t like getting your ass kicked by Quentin then don’t throw at a big guy who stands off the plate. I know he gets hit a lot but he isn’t Barry Bonds hanging over the plate so don’t tell me he was looking to get hit.
This concept that the batter has to just take the hbp without grumbling because the game is close is nuts. Fighting is a bit stupid but throwing 90 mile per hour balls at batters is also dangerous. Suspend both players if you want but do not decide that Grienke is right and Quentin is this evil monster because the pitcher aimed to maim and got beat up. The pitcher started the fight and I am glad he lost.

juan pierres mustache
Member
Member
3 years 2 months ago

you are assuming that a large number of unverifiable things are absolute truths

Sleight of Hand Pro
Guest
Sleight of Hand Pro
3 years 2 months ago

welcome to the internet.

Tvators
Guest
Tvators
3 years 2 months ago

Guess you didnt bother watching this even once, he barely even threw near him, Q. leaned into the pitch, not even a tiny flinch of an effort to get out of the way. Not even close to reality

Keith
Guest
Keith
3 years 2 months ago

You’re incorrect in saying that he does not crowd the plate in a fashion that puts him in the direct line of fire of normal pitches.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/carlos-quentins-hbp-zone/

James
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James
3 years 2 months ago

Quinten may have overreacted, but intentional or not Grienke was taunting Quinten from the mound. You lose sympathy once that happens.

AA
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AA
3 years 2 months ago

You must be a Padre fan. He wasn’t taunting anyone. The guy barely talks

Ozzie
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Ozzie
3 years 2 months ago

I disagree. Watch the tape again. Quentin appears very pissed off after being plunked, but not quite ready to charge the mound. Greinke looks like he says something immediately afterwards, and even if you disagree with this he certainly appears unapologetic; this looks to incite Quentin’s charge. Quentin reacted poorly and cost the Dodgers big time, but I don’t think we can say Greinke is 100% innocent here.

Rob
Guest
Rob
3 years 2 months ago

He has to be apologetic? If its unintentional, which everyone but carlos quintin thinks it was, he doesnt need to apologize. It’s part of the game.

Quentin started walking towards him immediately. At that point I don’t expect any pitcher in mlb to beg for forgiveness.

Grenkie said something in reaction to quentin walking towards him. At that point quentin flew off the handle like a little child. Then he trumped-up their past history to justify his stupidity. Screw him.

CircleChange11
Guest
CircleChange11
3 years 2 months ago

Jesus Christ, Greinke slammed his glove down the moment TCQ started charging. Both guys knew the situation was ready to escalate and they BOTH did things that contributed to it.

Was the beaning intentional? Hell no. Both guys seem to acknowledge that.

Was does appear intentional was the feeling or bravado or challenging that occurred after TCQ took a step forward.

This whole idea that Greinke was just an innocent little guy that simply defended himself is ridiculous.

I’ve pitched in college and been charged (and deserved it) and there’s a big difference btw the “Oh Poop” reaction when you’re charged and the “Bring it on, B****” reaction. Greinke knew whatever he said was going to escalate batsh*t crazy TCQ, even if all he said was “Move your @$$” or something like that.

Not sure how many people here have been beaned, but getting hit with a pitch in the 90s ain;t fun and it doesn;t tickle. To look up and see the pitcher giving you any type of emotion other than “my bad” has to be infuriating.

If a pitcher is going to pose like a badass, the batter is going to take that as a challenge. Always has, always will.

cnote66
Member
cnote66
3 years 2 months ago

I think in that brief moment, Carlos thinks to himself “If I charge the mound, Greinke will get tossed too and we MIGHT be able to win this game with a different LAD pitcher in the game”… Just saying…

Ozzie
Guest
Ozzie
3 years 2 months ago

I’ll be more straightforward in what I mean– it looks like after Greinke hits him he then adds insult to injury by talking sh*t. I am not a Quentin apologist here, I’m simply saying Greinke is no martyr.

Jeff H.
Guest
Jeff H.
3 years 2 months ago

It seems like some fans/commenters are trying to take the norms of everyday life and apply them to a completely different context. It’s not like Quentin was waiting in line to go to a movie and he got punched by a guy behind him in line.

Quentin made a mistake in the way he responded. It happens. But to expect Greinke to defer to Quentin in that situation is to not really understand what was going on there.

NS
Guest
NS
3 years 2 months ago

“This whole idea that Greinke was just an innocent little guy that simply defended himself is ridiculous.”

Greinke didn’t do anything – at all – to warrant a charge. You can say as much as you want about the fact that Greinke doesn’t seem to like Quentin, didn’t defuse, and maybe even actively antagonized him (in the span of what, 3 seconds?). Even if that’s all true, all of it is a red herring.

The only reasonable grounds for a charge is an intentional HBP. In that case, part of the game though it may be, the pitcher has initiated some pretty serious violence.

If the pitcher hits a guy unintentionally, it doesn’t matter if he hates the guy, would love to fight the guy, *says* he wants to fight the guy, or does any manner of typical crap along those lines. A charge is unwarranted.

So, “innocent little guy”? Of course not. Greinke has hit Quentin before and may have even been a little pleased it was Quentin who got hit by a mistake pitch last night. Might have wanted to fight. Nonetheless, he *is* the victim here and he *was* defending himself.

Preston
Guest
Preston
3 years 2 months ago

Yes as a professional courtesy you should be apologetic for hitting a guy with a 90 mph pitch. This is one of the few instances I remember of a hitter hurting a pitcher. But batters get hurt by pitchers all the time. Curtis Granderson is missing the first month plus with a fractured wrist and many players nearly lose their careers to concussion symptoms.

Hank
Guest
Hank
3 years 2 months ago

Ozzie and Circlechange nailed it.

Quentin wasn’t right to charge the mound and should take the brunt of the responsibility, but I don’t think he charges the mound without Greinke escalating it.

People keep asking does Greinke need to apologize? Hell no. Is anyone saying that?

But I guess people don’t realize there is a large middle ground between apologizing and staring in and barking something at Quentin.

While folks can say Quentin should have been able to determine the intent given the situation (and I wholeheartedly agree), Greinke should have been able to determine what staring in and yelling something would also do to the situation.

It took two people to completely escalate this issue. You can apportion the %’s as you wish, but it’s not 100% and 0% like I think some are viewing it as.

Jeff H.
Guest
Jeff H.
3 years 2 months ago

Hank – there was no intent on the pitch, so Quentin should have dropped the bat and taken his base. End of story.

Quentin stared out at Greinke, called attention to the situation and challenged the pitcher with his actions. No surprise that Greinke is not going to back down in that situation.

Again, this is not an everyday situation where “sorry” is warranted.

dutchbrowncoat
Member
dutchbrowncoat
3 years 2 months ago
Dave
Guest
Dave
3 years 2 months ago

It appears to me that Grienke says something alongs the lines of “WHAT?” after Quentin takes a couple of menacing steps towards him. This thing was 100% Quentin’s fault, and yet it’s the Dodgers who lose a star player for 2 months. Quentin should be suspended indefinitely, and Grienke should talk to the San Diego PD about pressing assault with great bodily injury charges.

King of the Byelorussian Square Dancers
Guest

My 7 year old child knows that you don’t respond to words with violence. You’re suggesting words and full-speed tackle are equivalent? Please don’t breed.

Bab
Guest
Bab
3 years 2 months ago

Lol

Dave
Guest
Dave
3 years 2 months ago

This.

CircleChange11
Guest
CircleChange11
3 years 2 months ago

Your 7yo child may one day be a 16yo teen that gets into an conflict situation over something as trivial as being called a pussy in front of his friends or having someone look at him the wrong way, or have someone try to make him look foolish in front of girls. He may also one day be a 32yo husband that gets into a heated argument with his spouse over something as dumb as who was supposed to do the dishes. IMHO, most conflict situations are over something dumb.

In an adrenaline fueled or emotional situation, humans are not known to be completely rational.

I just heard Tim K say on tv (ESPN), that when 240 pounds of angry man is staring at you, you don;t do anything to provoke him … but Greinke is a wildly competitive guy that won;t back don for anything and that’s how baseball players are wired, and have been for 120 years.

Jay29
Member
Jay29
3 years 2 months ago

Of course Tim Kurkjian would recommend not provoking 240-lb men, considering he is roughly 1/4th that size.

Yeah
Guest
Yeah
3 years 2 months ago

What exactly is the argument you’re making here?

El Vigilante
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El Vigilante
3 years 2 months ago

Yeah baseball players are “wired” to fight and “always will”, except when MLB finally decides how stupid fights are and increases suspensions.

KDL
Guest
KDL
3 years 2 months ago

I think point was that in an imaginary scenario that has not even happened yet in the land of imagination, the King’s child would act similarly to Quentin…and that clearly shows that even though two wrongs (one of which is made-up) don’t make a right, another simple concept for 7 yr-olds, Quentin was justified in his actions.

Jon L.
Member
3 years 2 months ago

Did anyone actually watch the play? Quentin approached the mound, and Greinke RAN AT HIM. Say what you want about the situation or Greinke or having no choice, but after Quentin approached the mound, Greinke charged him. To say Quentin “bull-rushed” the mound is delusional.

I’m not a Padres fan or a Quentin fan. I did see the replay maybe 15 times. I feel like the reaction of people here (and on other related threads) is biased. Maybe because people here (and advanced statistical measures) like Greinke, everyone thinks he was wrongly attacked? He hit Quentin, not for the first time, barked something at him, then ran at him as Quentin approached the mound. I’m not saying that Quentin’s actions were laudable; I’m just saying that Greinke’s were not.

KDL
Guest
KDL
3 years 2 months ago

Impact occurs within 2-3 feet of the mound dirt. Either Paul Konerko could dust Greinke in a foot race…or you’re not watching the right video.

Jon L.
Member
3 years 2 months ago

And Greinke was moving faster at the point of impact. Greinke ran into Quentin, at which point Quentin drove forward with his shoulder.

“We’re clicking minus because Greinke has a great FIP and therefore played no role in the confrontation.”

Jon L.
Member
3 years 2 months ago

I am sorry Greinke got hurt. Quentin says he’s sorry, too. Quentin also says he would never have gone out there if Greinke hadn’t egged him on, and that you can see this in the video.

We’ll never know, but I think if Greinke doesn’t come off the mound at Quentin, it’s just a shouting match. Quentin slowed up as he got close – I think he had no idea what he really wanted to do.

MikeS
Guest
MikeS
3 years 2 months ago

My first thought when I heard about this was that Quentin has no business charging the mound, as much as he gets hit.

My second thought was that Quentin is probably a HBP expert and might be able to tell the difference between a purpose pitch and one that got away.

Justin
Guest
Justin
3 years 2 months ago

I’ve read that Quentin has been hit more then anybody since 2008 or 2009. But seriously he should of been happy to get on base. Considering he hasn’t seen 1st base since April 6th. Can’t count of Selig to actually do something about it. Probably will give Quentin a 3 or 4 game suspension with Quentin appealing and only getting 2 games.

AA
Guest
AA
3 years 2 months ago

He’ll probably suspend Kemp longer, which would be a travesty

John
Guest
John
3 years 2 months ago

Why a travesty? Kemp clearly tried to confront Quentin and start a fight after the game.

Drakos
Member
Drakos
3 years 2 months ago

He actually saw first on April 9th when he was hit by a pitch in the first game of the series and then had to miss the second game.

KDL
Guest
KDL
3 years 2 months ago

This cuts into the calm, discerning HBP expert storyline a bit. I’d probably have shorter fuse if I’ve already been hit by a team two days ago.

robby
Guest
robby
3 years 2 months ago

no matter the history or paranoia, etc. Greinke still had choice to diffuse situation, so he is as much to blame as Quentin. saying ‘he’s just that way’ isn’t a defense, anymore than someone saying “well i’m an a-hole, so just get used to it” Greinke could have shown a little empathy or remorse after hitting him, or turned his back to Quentin when he started coming towards him, or not lowering his shoulder. btw, who lowers a shoulder to start a fight anyways? Quentin shldnt be suspended anymore than a typical mound-chaser should be. Fact that Greinke got hurt shouldn’t entirely be on Quentin

Chad Moriyama
Member
3 years 2 months ago

It’s up to the party getting attacked to diffuse the situation?

Cool logic.

robby
Guest
robby
3 years 2 months ago

no, but to say he’s only a victim isn’t accurate. He had opportunity to diffuse, and didn’t even try.

Perry
Guest
Perry
3 years 2 months ago

In what fucking world would Zack have been able to diffuse anything? He wasn’t tainting Quentin, either. It looked like he reacted to the HBP like any reasonable competitor would: he was upset with himself for putting the tying run on after he had 2 strikes on him. You don’t utter any colorful language when you screw up? Q was already breaking for the mound. Blame rests entirely with him, mostly for being a rage fueled dick, but also for not understanding baseball very well.

Doc
Guest
Doc
3 years 2 months ago

Tainting isn’t allowed in baseball.. that’s usually seen only in adult films.

Anon21
Guest
Anon21
3 years 2 months ago

Oh my God, you morons. It’s defuse.

Chris
Guest
Chris
3 years 2 months ago

Yeah, having enough self control to not react to whatever Greinke did or did not say certainly has nothing to do with it.

Perry
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Perry
3 years 2 months ago

HAHAHA, tainting. Fat thumbs + iphone + taking my morning poop = tainting.

dirtbag
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dirtbag
3 years 2 months ago

He was dressed like he wanted it.

Jason B
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Jason B
3 years 2 months ago

Hah! That’s EXACTLY what I was going to say. So I’ll go with, “Those kids at Rutgers! It’s their fault for not decking their coach! How did they let that happen?!”

(Knowing of course they would have been kicked off the team, potentially losing their scholarship, if not arrested for assault if they had done so.)

Gregory
Guest
Gregory
3 years 2 months ago

What do you mean? He wasn’t wearing purple

Fearandloathing
Member
Fearandloathing
3 years 2 months ago

beat me to the punch.

King of the Byelorussian Square Dancers
Guest

Robby-

Listen, we know you love your son very much. He is probably a very good son and always remembers your birthday. But a parent’s love is no substitute for a rational evaluation of the facts and an informed judgement. Imagine how Greinke’s momma feels right now.

/s/King of the Byelorussian Square Dancers

evil kevin towers
Guest
evil kevin towers
3 years 2 months ago

the attack didn’t come out of the blue… after you hit somebody – somebody you’ve hit before – you should probably do something to indicate that it was an accident. Greinke did the opposite.

KDL
Guest
KDL
3 years 2 months ago

Quentin didn’t give him time. He was on the infield grass before the ump even points to first base.

evil kevin towers
Guest
evil kevin towers
3 years 2 months ago

Greinke had time to say (allegedly) “take your base b****”

AA
Guest
AA
3 years 2 months ago

How do you “difuse” when some jerk is charging you?

Joe D.
Guest
Joe D.
3 years 2 months ago

Robby is suggesting Greinke could have avoided the situation by quickly dispersing his molecules (ie. those molecules which can be said to make up Zack Greinke) through the stadium.

Had Greinke spread out as though he were a gas, none of this would have happened.

Greinke’s failure to diffuse is critical here.

Joe D.
Guest
Joe D.
3 years 2 months ago

“…through the stadium…”

Or throughout. Either one,actually. Greinke could have spread out in the stadium, or passed through the walls (or ground) to get his atoms and molecules and such outside.

So many viable options, and Greinke failed to go with any of them. Such a shame.

Phrozen
Guest
Phrozen
3 years 2 months ago

No, he should have diffused the taint if he didn’t want it.

Yeah
Guest
Yeah
3 years 2 months ago

Now that I think about it like that, it really is his fault isn’t it?

John
Guest
John
3 years 2 months ago

LOL

Someone actually knows the difference between defuse (the term people should be using to describe this event) and diffuse.

Funny Joe.

Majesty
Guest
Majesty
3 years 2 months ago

No amount of purely verbal taunting comes even 1% of the way to justifying a violent response. Ever. You sound like abusive husbands who blame their wives for provoking them. Quentin should be charged with assault – given the situation, a fair prosecution should have a decent chance of having him sent to prison for a few months or years.

Doc
Guest
Doc
3 years 2 months ago

the fact that greinke hit quentin with an object (read: weapon) has no bearing on your legal opinion?

if i hit you with an object and you retaliate.. you’re going to “prison” while i’m not held accountable at all?

strong legal logic.

tomemos
Guest
tomemos
3 years 2 months ago

Right, and also, a guy hits me, and supposedly I’m not allowed to press assault charges just because we’re participating in a sanctioned “boxing match”? What kind of legal logic is that?

Fearandloathing
Member
Fearandloathing
3 years 2 months ago

Quentin came to that nuisance when he entered the ballpark and put on the uniform.

But i guess if we’re going to throw around a deficient grasp of the law it makes sense.

PJC
Guest
PJC
3 years 2 months ago

Doc, from a lawyer, what you said is precisely wrong. Retaliation does not excuse or justify any physical battery or similar conduct. The fact that the aggressor was earlier the victim may lighten the punishment slightly (but probably not), but the conduct is still absolutely punishable.

The law requires that instead of retaliating, the victim in the first instance should seek damages or compensation or punishment of the initial aggressor. I think that’s what was meant by “civilized human beings” earlier. I think it’s unfair to professional athletes to assume that they’re not civilized and should not be held to the same standard as the rest of society.

CircleChange11
Guest
CircleChange11
3 years 2 months ago

No amount of purely verbal taunting comes even 1% of the way to justifying a violent response. Ever.

What world do you live in?

Have you ever played sports?

I can;t think of lots of things I could say to other people where the natural consequence of that action would be to get hit in the mouth.

We Americans very often take the Freedom of Speech bit too far and use it for justifications to be smart-ass jerks and hide behind the idea that nothing we say should beget a violent response.

I don;t agree. I think there are plenty of things that people say to each other that could easily warrant a punch in the mouth. Matter of fact, I think I can convince that one of the reasons we say so much mean crap to each other is because we know that the other person can’t do anything about without getting in trouble.

People say things on the internet and from safe distances that would NEVER say to a person’s face, even considering what I just explained. Why is that?

People are bold when there’s no consequences for what they say.

Dave
Guest
Dave
3 years 2 months ago

I think we live in the world in which words, which can only influence perceptions rather than reality, are different from violence, which has tangible real-world effects.

Do we seriously need to explain this?

CircleChange11
Guest
CircleChange11
3 years 2 months ago

I acknowledge this. But, I am saying that we are dealing with humans beings that are as emotion-based as they are rational thinkers (some more emotional than rational and vice versa).

I am simply saying that I can easily form a list of things that I could say to people that have a high probability of escalating any situation into a conflict situation. Almost all of us understand this and avoid using these words and phrases with other people for that very reason.

Yeah
Guest
Yeah
3 years 2 months ago

Please live by this philosophy, see where it gets you. As Ghandi once said, “violence is a perfectly reasonable solution to many of life’s problems.”

Bab
Guest
Bab
3 years 2 months ago

Dude, don’t compare domestic abuse to baseball feuds.

Preston
Guest
Preston
3 years 2 months ago

Verbally taunting a guy after you hit him with a baseball at 90 mph, is not “purely verbal taunting”. Whether he did it on purpose or not, verbally taunting him after you do it makes it seem intentional.

KDL
Guest
KDL
3 years 2 months ago

What did Grienke say? Since you KNOW that he was taunting him, I’d be curious to hear what words he used.

Have we ruled out the possibility that after Quentin’s posturing and few steps of approach Greinke couldn’t have yelled some variation of “Are fucking kidding me!?!”

Preston
Guest
Preston
3 years 2 months ago

I don’t know what he said or that he taunted him. He could have said my bad. But the point was there shouldn’t be anything somebody says that could make you turn to violence. The point was there was more incitement than whatever it was that he said. There was the small point of him hitting him with a baseball.

Pete
Guest
Pete
3 years 2 months ago

Turning the left shoulder sure looked to me like a guy protecting the other arm worth $140 million.

stripesjr
Member
stripesjr
3 years 2 months ago

Running backs and linebackers never lower their shoulders when someone is bearing down on them like a freight train. That’s the always the response if you aren’t trained to change their momentum. It’s a physical response.

I don’t know if this gets mentioned in other posts later on but tangotiger posted a link to baseball reference with Quentin getting hit by pitchers sorted by fewest plate appearances. Greinke is way down that list.

stripesjr
Member
stripesjr
3 years 2 months ago
Bronnt
Member
Bronnt
3 years 2 months ago

Wow. So Erik Bedard hit him 3 times in 9 plate appearances? I wonder why he never bullrushed Bedard.

I also marvel at Quentin’s ability to hold a grudge. The last time he hit Quentin with a pitch was four years ago.

KDL
Guest
KDL
3 years 2 months ago

To be fair, it had only been 24 games played ago for Quentin.

Dan Szymborski
Guest
3 years 2 months ago

So essentially, what you’re saying is that Greinke shouldn’t have worn such a short skirt?

Tony Fernandez
Guest
Tony Fernandez
3 years 2 months ago

Right, the fact that Quentin broke his collar bone isn’t important. Are you kidding?

robby
Guest
robby
3 years 2 months ago

‘manly’ or not, Greinke could have avoided getting into a brawl and risking getting hurt. He could have coiled up into a ball, and i doubt Quentin runs up and kicks him and punches him if Greinke’s not willing to fight him

AA
Guest
AA
3 years 2 months ago

Human instinct is fight or flight, not curl up into a ball.

robby
Guest
robby
3 years 2 months ago

well then he could have ‘flown’

Anon21
Guest
Anon21
3 years 2 months ago

He could have coiled up into a ball

Not unless he’s a snake.

robby
Guest
robby
3 years 2 months ago

was an example, i dont expect anyone would actually curl into a ball, just making a point that he could have chose not to fight.

Ryan
Guest
Ryan
3 years 2 months ago

So, if he played for the diamondbacks, then?

Rick
Guest
Rick
3 years 2 months ago

@Anon21

I think the real question is whether coiling into a ball would have diffused the situation.

Anon21
Guest
Anon21
3 years 2 months ago

Gah!

Tomrigid
Guest
Tomrigid
3 years 2 months ago

The variety of superpower escape abilities that Zack is supposed to have employed here is beyond what I ever knew. He should be robbing banks, not pitching.

dirtbag
Guest
dirtbag
3 years 2 months ago

Robby is trolling.

Not even Josh Hamilton is that stupid.

robby
Guest
robby
3 years 2 months ago

lol, no. i just think there is blame to both sides. Greinke hits him and he should have reacted calmly.
Greinke says something and he should have reacted calmly.
He starts running at Greinke and Greinke should have reacted calmly.

None of those things happened, so both had chances to avoid a brawl.

Heather
Guest
Heather
3 years 2 months ago

Ok, you realize those things aren’t on the same level, right? If someone holds me up and demands my purse, I am not equally culpable if I say no and the criminal shoots me.

Stupid, maybe. But not culpable.

robby
Guest
robby
3 years 2 months ago

heather, neither is your comparison.

Heather
Guest
Heather
3 years 2 months ago

You’re invested in blaming Greinke. Could Greinke have done something to diffuse the situation? Yeah, I guess. But you fail to make a convincing argument as to why it was incumbent upon him to do so, since it was Quentin who took off running for the mound.

Just because two people happened to be involved in a situation doesn’t make them equally culpable.

TKDC
Guest
TKDC
3 years 2 months ago

I hope the next person I want to fight takes that tactic. It will make it very easy for me to beat the piss out of him.

Jason B
Guest
Jason B
3 years 2 months ago

Not to mention, can you imagine how a player’s teammates and the media would excoriate someone for just balling up in the fetal position? “Where’s his toughness? That’s not manly!” etc etc.

Yeah it may potentially defuse the situation, and he would be made a total laughingstock at the same time!

Darcy Hordichuk
Guest
Darcy Hordichuk
3 years 2 months ago

Nothing wrong with that.

dirtbag
Guest
dirtbag
3 years 2 months ago

What Robby thinks Greinke should have done:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MLkIwnQIw4

BJsWorld
Guest
BJsWorld
3 years 2 months ago

How have I never seen that before? Brilliant.

Yeah
Guest
Yeah
3 years 2 months ago

How is this not sarcasm???

Kevin
Guest
Kevin
3 years 2 months ago

MLB Network showed video of the April 2009 incident last night. It looked like Greinke was headhunting and then blatantly hit him square in the back the next AB.

That being said, I think Quentin overreacted last night.

Jaack
Guest
Jaack
3 years 2 months ago

Lost in all this is the fact that Doctor Neal El Attrache is about as badass of a name as you can find.

Well-Beered Englishman
Guest
Well-Beered Englishman
3 years 2 months ago

Indeed!

The Nationals team doctor is named Wiemi Douoguih.

Doc
Guest
Doc
3 years 2 months ago

How many times has Quentin charged the mound before? He’s been hit more than anyone else in baseball, and I would assume that if he’s never decided to bring the thunder before there would have to be a reason behind it. I doubt it was random or just a hot-headed guy flexing his muscles.

Whether that reason is justfied.. that’s a different story.

CircleChange11
Guest
CircleChange11
3 years 2 months ago

EVERYONE knows that TCQ is batpoop crazy. It’s one of the things that endears him to us. The guy breaks his hand punching his own bat. He coo-koo.

Not only is he crazy, but he’s strong as heck, and built like a truck. I’m saying he’s the exact type of guy you don’t “trigger”.

That he’s never charged does show a lot of understand and restraint on his part.

We also know that Greinke has some personality quirks (I empathize with him) and very often rubs people the wrong way.

I am amazed that anyone can watch the video and think that Greinke didn’t do anything to cause TCQ to go from staring toward the mound to charging.

Greinke must have slammed his glove to the ground in complete surprise that TCQ was charging? No, he slammed his glove because he was pissed and he said something and knew what the result would be.

Both guys contributed to this situation.

jfree
Member
jfree
3 years 2 months ago

The rumor I’ve heard is that Greinke said “Take your base bitch” – and that’s when Quentin charged.

Jason B
Guest
Jason B
3 years 2 months ago

There will be lots of apocryphal stories of what he said, I bet. Like Bill Murray whispering to the chick towards the end of “Lost in Translation”.

Yeah
Guest
Yeah
3 years 2 months ago

The rumor I heard is that Greinke said “Why must we fight Carlos, can’t you see that I love you?”

NS
Guest
NS
3 years 2 months ago

Which would be a perfectly acceptable thing to say, really. It’s obvious to any thinking person that it wasn’t intentional, so quit staring and get down the line.

Robert J. Baumann
Member
Member
3 years 2 months ago

“Bill Murray whispering to the chick”…

That was Scarlett Effing Johansson, first off, and even if it wasn’t, that’s pretty pejorative.

Jason B
Guest
Jason B
3 years 2 months ago

“I’m saying he’s the exact type of guy you don’t “trigger”.”

Again, this is akin to “don’t wear that short skirt around that dude, you know he’s a horn dog!”

El Vigilante
Guest
El Vigilante
3 years 2 months ago

In what world is not charging the mound a sign of “restraint”?

samuelraphael
Member
3 years 2 months ago

Dodgers should have lured away Nolan Ryan when they had a chance.

Jason B
Guest
Jason B
3 years 2 months ago

He’s available these days…he’s not getting the love in Texas like he thinks he should, becoming more of a figurehead.

It’s not really that different than Ric Flair ‘wrestling’ until he’s 84.

Blue
Guest
Blue
3 years 2 months ago

No, Quentin, I suspect you’re going to find this “situation” is not done.”

Justin
Guest
Justin
3 years 2 months ago

They play each other again in June. I can see a few pitches inside to him if he hasn’t been cut by the Padres by then.

Jason B
Guest
Jason B
3 years 2 months ago

Cut?! You have GOT to be kidding, right? With Headley out he’s the biggest bat they’ve got.

CircleChange11
Guest
CircleChange11
3 years 2 months ago

If the Dodgers want to screw with TCQ again, then they really do get what they deserve.

By then the Dodgers and Padres will likely be in very different situations, and they have very different levels of star players.

If LAD wants to fight with the SDP, then so be it. The LAD have so much more to lose than the SDP’s.

If they do HBP TCQ, my advice is to call up a hard-throwing reliever from AAA, bring him in the game to drill TCQ, then demote him. Don;t have a valuable pitcher on the mound when they decide to provoke TCQ again … and keep Matt Kemp away from TCQ, the last thing LAD need is for TCQ to slam Kemp on his shoulder or something like that.

In this situation for the LAD, it really is a “Mess with the bull, get the horns” type of situation.

You don’t screw with people when you have the most to lose.

Tomrigid
Guest
Tomrigid
3 years 2 months ago

By the time the insurance lawyers get through with Quentin, he’ll be a steer.

hbar
Guest
hbar
3 years 2 months ago

the chances of him not being on the DL by June are vanishingly small. The Glass Bull.

Dave
Guest
Dave
3 years 2 months ago

Are you kidding? They play again on Monday.

bSpittle
Guest
3 years 2 months ago

Lame.
I don’t like the Dodgers but Greinke I’m a fan of.

That injury sucks.

Bomb Thrower
Guest
Bomb Thrower
3 years 2 months ago

*cough* Roid Rage *cough*

Heather
Guest
Heather
3 years 2 months ago

Here’s what I don’t understand: you are so enraged by getting hit, nothing else will do, you MUST charge the mound. Then you get there, and instead of punching the dude, you run into him, pull on the guy’s shirt, and wrestle him to the ground.

Quentin’s punishment should be to watch hockey fights over and over.

Roy J
Guest
Roy J
3 years 2 months ago

I’ve always thought about this. This type of stuff happens a lot for some reason. Although back in 08, that James Shields vs Coco Crisp brawl started off the way it should have. Instead of tackling, punches were being thrown.

bvillebaron
Guest
bvillebaron
3 years 2 months ago

Robby:

No offense, but your comments are as stupid as Quentin’s conduct last night. Quentin is among the league leaders in getting hit by pitches over his career because he stands on top of the plate. He also has missed playing time because of being hit by pitches in the past. Instead of choosing to move farther off the plate, he persists on standing on top of it, presumably because he views himself as a “tough guy”. I am okay with all of that.

However, if you want to be a “tough guy” and continue to do that, act like a man and walk to first base when you get hit, rather than charge the mound. Your claim that Quentin should not be suspended more than any other “mound charger” if offensive on two levels. First, there shouldn’t be any “mound chargers”, if MLB had the you know what to impose suspensions which would be long enough to stop it in the first place. Second, the fact that Greinke broke his collarbone should be relevant to Quentin’s punishment. If I cause a car accident because of carelessness or negligence, I have to pay for the damages that result from that conduct. Sometimes the result is only minor property damage, but other times it results in more serious damage or personal injury. The same analysis should apply here, Irrespective of what Greinke may or may not have said AFTER Quentin initially took a few steps toward him, Quentin caused this confrontation by INTENTIONALLY charging the mound and attacking Greinke with the intention of harming him and thus should be responsible for the consequences.

Heather
Guest
Heather
3 years 2 months ago

Good point. In the legal sense, results often matter. My punishment is different for a regular DUI, then a DUI where I accidentally run over a granny in the crosswalk.

Same action, different result, different punishment.

robby
Guest
robby
3 years 2 months ago

how about if the granny ran through the crosswalk when the light is flashing ‘do not cross’. Doesn’t absolve driver, but not the same as a ‘defenseless granny/Greinke’

Dan
Guest
Dan
3 years 2 months ago

More like Granny was on her power chair in the crosswalk after the light turned green and gave you/Carlos Quentin the finger. So it’s clearly ok for you/Carlos Quentin to run Granny over now right?

robby
Guest
robby
3 years 2 months ago

If Greinke doesn’t lower his shoulder and just stands there, it likely would’ve been just shoving. He didn’t. Also for the hovering the plate…check out the pics…
https://twitter.com/CJNitkowski/status/322722973867966465

https://twitter.com/CJNitkowski/status/322723424675971073

Demiurge
Member
Demiurge
3 years 2 months ago

Sir, just stop. You’re blaming the guy who was attacked without justification, except the one that exists in the purgatorial mind of Carlos Quentin — and that’s presuming there’s ever a justification for mound-charging. Your suggestion that someone being assaulted should just “calmly” stand there like an oak is laughable. Greinke is under no obligation to risk his life to please your sensibilities. Dropping the shoulder in that situation is self-defense. Sure, most pitchers hop away or attempt a russian-leg-sweep-type defense, but Greinke isn’t made that way, apparently.

Quentin is a moron. It is well-documented that he leans into pitches. The fact that he continues to do this even when it has drastically reduced his career at this point belies his stupidity. The picture referenced above is Greinke pre-delivery. A couple frames later, you’ll see Quentin leaning into the strike zone.

Mike Bridwell
Guest
Mike Bridwell
3 years 2 months ago

He hit Quentin with a fastball! You call that “without justification”? If Grenke wants to pitch up and in, than he needs to be prepared to deal with the consequences.

Richard
Guest
Richard
3 years 2 months ago

@Mike So if Quentin crowds the plate and is known for being HBP regularly he should be prepared to deal with the consequences as well right?

Chad Moriyama
Member
Doc
Guest
Doc
3 years 2 months ago

if a pitcher hits a batter and breaks his wrist are they held responsibile for the results?

tomemos
Guest
tomemos
3 years 2 months ago

But a pitcher’s job involves throwing a ball very close to a batter. No part of the batter’s job involves colliding with the pitcher.

Bronnt
Member
Bronnt
3 years 2 months ago

The Internet called. It said it does not care for your “facts.”

Bab
Guest
Bab
3 years 2 months ago

You got up voted for evading the substantive issue of the question

tomemos
Guest
tomemos
3 years 2 months ago

I got upvoted because the analogy was so nonsensical it didn’t warrant a substantive response.

Michael
Guest
Michael
3 years 2 months ago

Happened to Jeter, a few years ago, and nothing happened to the pitcher, correct?

Dan
Guest
Dan
3 years 2 months ago

Guys get beaned in the normal course of baseball because pitchers don’t always throw the ball where they want. At no time during the normal course of baseball does a batter run toward the mound.

KDL
Guest
KDL
3 years 2 months ago

If charging the mound were a part of the actual game of baseball you would have a point. But alas…

Eminor3rd
Member
Eminor3rd
3 years 2 months ago

White Sox fans will be aware that there has always been beef between Greinke and the Sox. A little searching will turn up several quotations from Greinke about how he loves beating the Sox because they don;t like each other. I have little doubt that there has been a ton of provocation between the two players in the past, though much of it was probably verbal.

TKDC
Guest
TKDC
3 years 2 months ago

If Quentin believed he was hit on purpose, he should have appealed to the league to suspend Grienke. Charging the mound has no place in baseball and the severity of Grienke’s injury absolutely should play a role in Quentin’s punishment.

And there is no such thing as fighting words. If Grienke called Quentin a “cocksucker,” that is still no excuse for charging the mound. At least not to civilized human beings. Whether you feel sorry for Grienke or not is irrelevant, Quentin should honestly be required to pay the Dodgers for Grienke’s salary while he is on the DL.

robby
Guest
robby
3 years 2 months ago

i don’t think anyone wants people charging the mound. when it does though, it takes 2 to fight.

Cliff
Guest
Cliff
3 years 2 months ago

Yeah, otherwise it turns into an ass-kicking…

robby
Guest
robby
3 years 2 months ago

if Greinke just stood there, you think Quentin runs up and starts pounding him mercilessly? I doubt that. He wld realize he’s overreacted and it wouldve been much less an issue

LK
Guest
LK
3 years 2 months ago

I’m sorry, but this is ridiculous. When someone physically attacks you, you don’t just stand there and hope that they realize they’re overreacting.

Jason B
Guest
Jason B
3 years 2 months ago

Robby, man, you’ve got to know when you’re beat. This road your going down is just plainly wrong. It’s OK to admit that sometimes.

“But officer she was asking for it! She smiled at me! And smells good! Of COURSE she was looking to get laid!”

Brian Fantana
Guest
Brian Fantana
3 years 2 months ago

Dear Robby –

Take it easy, Champ. Why don’t you sit this next one out, stop talking for a while.

TanPadreFan
Member
Member
TanPadreFan
3 years 2 months ago

A 6’2″ 235lb. angry man is running directly at you with obvious violent intent…and you’d just stand there? Seriously? A bull-rush means “tackle.” There’s no way anyone could have “just stood there.”

The main thing that Greinke should have done differently is the takedown technique. He should give Randy Myers a call while on the DL.

Max
Guest
Max
3 years 2 months ago

The Rick Porcello technique works as well. Use the bigger man’s momentum against him…

chris
Guest
chris
3 years 2 months ago

Robby is trolling, leave hm be. It’s impossible someone is this dumb

CircleChange11
Guest
CircleChange11
3 years 2 months ago

At least not to civilized human beings.

People understand that the sporting world and the real world are not all that similar, right?

Don’t believe me? Look someone up at work today and “charge them”.

Athletes live in a world that is similar to being a teenager. Everything is about bravado and your dick.

When the last time anyone slapped a butt or chest-bumped someone at work for doing a remedial everyday work task?

Athletes and regular people don’t even live in the same world.

Kevin Durant, one of the nice guys, “throat slashed” his opponent last night. I have to admit, I’ve never seen a throat slash gesture at work, but maybe I work at a unique place.

PJC
Guest
PJC
3 years 2 months ago

CC11, I realize you’re trying to give the perspective of a former player, but are you saying everyone should just throw up their hands and not try to impose any rules or discipline on player conduct? I am a former college player too, and though you are right that testosterone and bravado drive a lot of behavior of athletes, that doesn’t mean many or all of them can’t – or shouldn’t be expected to – tell right from wrong.

There are situations where the charger’s conduct may be justified, but those situations are very few. And this one doesn’t even come close.

CircleChange11
Guest
CircleChange11
3 years 2 months ago

I think both guys should be in trouble, TCQ more than ZG. I’m just saying it’s not like ZG “didn’t do anything” to escalate the situation. People are acting like TCQ is completely unreasonable in this situation.

What is being missed here is that, intentionally or not, ZG HBP’d TCQ with a hard baseball at 90+mph. So, in some manner, it kind of is up to the pitcher to defuse the situation.

I would say the same thing if it were common for batters to let go of the bat as they swung, and have it go “toward the pitcher”.

Greinke stared him down right back, said something,and took a step toward the plate, and as soon as TCQ charged he tossed his glove and “was ready”.

I think it is significant that TCQ has charged the mound once, despite being HBP’d more than any player i the game. Clearly he understands that all pitchers are not intentionally throwing at him.

I respect ZG for holding his ground and not backing down. But, you can;t do that and then have people say you didn;t do anything in the situation.

Jason B
Guest
Jason B
3 years 2 months ago

Circle–

are you going along with Robby and advocating the “curl up into a fetal ball” position? Or the “stand there like a tree and hope the charging bull has a change of heart in the 0.8 seconds it takes him to get all over ZG like stink on sh*t”?

baty
Guest
baty
3 years 2 months ago

If Quentin’s reaction time for swinging at a pitch were the same speed as his getting out of the way of a pitch, he would have been cut week 1 from his freshman HS baseball team.

Regardless of whether Greinke was picking on him or not, it’s a stubborn stance Quentin takes in the box. His body language says “I refuse to show any kind of fear for your pitching, and I’m not getting out of the way for anyone. This is my space”.

He needs to grow up a bit. You can’t get ticked off about getting hit on the arms every week when you’re as indifferent as he is about getting them out of the way. With most of his hit by pitches, he just doesn’t have much care at all to move out of the way.

robby
Guest
robby
3 years 2 months ago

the fact that he doesnt get ticked off every week does have merit here then. every other time he doesn’t get into fights, so logic says something in this is different than most…

Doc
Guest
Doc
3 years 2 months ago

isn’t it called the batter’s box? wouldn’t that show possession?

stripesjr
Member
stripesjr
3 years 2 months ago

The rules state that the batter makes a reasonable effort to get out of the way of the pitch.

CircleChange11
Guest
CircleChange11
3 years 2 months ago

Yeah, and if batters followed that rule to a tee, no batter would ever his any slider that starts on the inner half.

I personally, even as a former pitcher, don;t fee batter’s should be diving out of the way on anything inside. But, they shouldn’t be allowed to “move into” the pitch. The batter’s box is the batters. If I throw a pitch that goes in there, it’s not the “batter’s fault” nor his responsibility to go jumping out of the way.

This seems like a very silly rule.

Yeah
Guest
Yeah
3 years 2 months ago

No,it’s called the batters box because it’s where the batter has to stand inside when batting, no player “owns” any part of the baseball field, that’s just silly.

jfree
Member
jfree
3 years 2 months ago

The batter’s box IS his space. You know — BATTERS box. I suppose he could run away and hide whenever someone throws a ball in HIS space. Most players do. But some don’t – and that’s their right.

And nothing a batter does is as annoying to a good pitcher as a batter standing his ground in the entire batters box. If you can successfully brush him back, then you have just expanded the effective strike zone. If you can’t, then the pressure is entirely on the pitcher.

And Quentin is good at that. It’s why he has such good batting results v many top pitchers – Verlander, Kershaw, Greinke, Felix.

Jason B
Guest
Jason B
3 years 2 months ago

“It’s why he has such good batting results v many top pitchers – Verlander, Kershaw, Greinke, Felix.”

And also why he’s as fragile as fine china…

Clayton
Guest
Clayton
3 years 2 months ago

Matt Kemp went Carmelo and tried to go after Quentin post-game. http://www.businessinsider.com/matt-kemp-confronts-padres-players-in-parking-lot-2013-4

Vin Scully’s lip-reading of Kemp last night was hilarious. “Matt keep’s saying ‘That’s fertilizer, that’s fertilizer.'”

clevelander
Guest
clevelander
3 years 2 months ago

Can we get a map of the pitch in question from last night? Looked to me on the replays that it was juuuuust inside – maybe a ball by 2-3 inches.

clevelander
Guest
clevelander
3 years 2 months ago

found my own answer:

Phrozen
Guest
Phrozen
3 years 2 months ago

So six inches high and nine inches off the plate. That’s a dangerous pitch to throw.

Don
Guest
Don
3 years 2 months ago

His control wasn’t exactly top notch last night. It happens to pitchers. He still wasn’t trying to hit him.

clevelander
Guest
clevelander
3 years 2 months ago

yeah, the chart shows he missed low and outside by just as much in the same at bat.

and every pitch thrown at major league velocity is a dangerous pitch to throw if command isn’t pinpoint! :)

jevant
Member
jevant
3 years 2 months ago

My suspicion is that Quentin stepped forward, Grienke said “you should try to get out of the way” or something like that (it was going to be BALL FOUR if Quentin had made the slightest attempt to avoid the HBP), and Quentin didn’t like that.

John
Guest
John
3 years 2 months ago

Looked to me like Greinke said two words, and the first started with the letter F.

Dave
Guest
Dave
3 years 2 months ago

Well, that certainly justifies breaking someone’s collarbone.

TKDC
Guest
TKDC
3 years 2 months ago

Grienke was acting suspiciously. In Florida, Quentin could have pulled out a gun and shot him, so I guess it could be worse than a broken collarbone.

olethros
Guest
olethros
3 years 2 months ago

Maybe if the skin colors were reversed…

CircleChange11
Guest
CircleChange11
3 years 2 months ago

Honestly, my concern is that is the most significant aspect of the whole thing.

TCQ has been HBP’d more than anyone else but has never charged.

Greinke, a white guy, is known to have personality “quirks” (perhaps a disorder) that rubs lots of folks the wrong way, yet is viewed to be the innocent victim in the whole thing.

Greinke slams his glove to the ground immediately after TCQ starts charging. That’s not a “surprise reaction”. ZG knew that based on what he said or posed, it was going to cause TCQ to do something, and Greinke was ready for it. Both guys acted macho in a situation where macho is going to lead to a fight.

It’s not that difficult to understand. The sports world is not the real world. The sports world is more like bar then a regular workplace. If someone in a bar stares you down, and you get all big-chested and stare them down right back, your assumption should be that the action will escalate the situation, not that the other person will respect and admire your standing up for yourself. It’s the reason most of us stay out of bars.

Yeah
Guest
Yeah
3 years 2 months ago

Okay, one, “perhaps a disorder” what are you talking about it’s well known that he has been clinically diagnosed with Social Anxiety Disorder, that’s not a “quirk”.

Two, what does that have to do with ANYTHING?

Three, are you really implying people are blaming Quentin because they’re racists?

deadpool
Guest
deadpool
3 years 2 months ago

I would point out the only reason Q didn’t charge Grienke in 2009 was that he was physically restrained. Take that as you will.

CircleChange11
Guest
CircleChange11
3 years 2 months ago

In that 2009 HBP, TCQ can be seen mouthing the words “I’m cool” to the catcher.

Johnny Come Lately
Member
Johnny Come Lately
3 years 2 months ago

I don’t understand the “slams his glove to the ground” critique. Should he have gently placed it on the ground? Left it on his hand so he only had one free hand to defend himself? If I see a crazy lunatic charging at me, you can be damn sure I’m going to get my hands free as fast as possible.

CircleChange11
Guest
CircleChange11
3 years 2 months ago

That’s not the only thing I said.

ZG was …

1. Taking a step toward home.
2. Staring right at TCQ.
3. Said something served as a trigger.
4. Once, TCQ charged, ZG slammed/tossed his glove to the ground.
5. ZG met TCQ head on.

What I am saying, as one that deals with fight/conflict situations all the time, is that is not behavior that seeks to avoid a conflict situation or defuse it.

In my line of work, this event would most likely be classified as “mutual combat”, rather than “assault and defense”.

Most of us wouldn’t trigger or antagonize a 240-pound guy that we can tell is a little perturbed with something we’ve done. Those of us that would, should have a good idea of how that situation is going to turn out.

KDL
Guest
KDL
3 years 2 months ago

Almost every comment you have made puts the weight of responsibility on what Greinke did wrong. Was he Gandhi? No. But I hope you understand why so many people are disagreeing with you. Very little of what you’ve written even acknowledges that the bulk of the blame rests with Quentin. In any situation there are things both parties can do to make things better. Focusing too much on the faults of one person is never the way to remedy a situation, esp. when the most critiqued participant is, in the grand scheme, least at fault.

And I call totally bogus on #1 and #4. Watch almost every pitcher after almost every pitch. They throw, they continue toward the catcher. And #4…I’m not sure how tossing one glove aside can really incite someone who is ALREADY charging at you.

Fletch
Guest
Fletch
3 years 2 months ago

I for one hope that Quentin is suspended for the upcoming series at Dodger stadium for purely safety reasons. The Dodgers pitching staff is going to be out for blood. I hate to say it, but if he plays next week he might get his head taken off.

robby
Guest
robby
3 years 2 months ago

not to mention the fans at Dodger stadium…

LK
Guest
LK
3 years 2 months ago

Well if the fans do charge on the field and attack Quentin, he just needs to stand there and then they’ll realize they’re overreacting, right? After all, if he fights back then he’s to blame as well.

Tim
Guest
Tim
3 years 2 months ago

I once hit Carlos Quentin with a pitch, and the only sport I participate in is curling.

Phrozen
Guest
Phrozen
3 years 2 months ago

When Carlos Quentin tried skydiving in England, he crashed, and got hit with a [cricket] pitch.

TheGrandslamwich
Member
TheGrandslamwich
3 years 2 months ago

Quentin is definitely at fault here, but Greinke’s reaction to to the charge is what caused the injury. It wasn’t exactly bright of Greinke to meet a shoulder charge from a guy built like Quentin with a shoulder charge of his own.

Don
Guest
Don
3 years 2 months ago

yes, he should stand open faced and casual, waiting for Quentin to know he overreacted

Bab
Guest
Bab
3 years 2 months ago

This is the kind of one-note sarcasm that pretends it offers an argument. An alternative would be for Greinke to intelligently avoid injurious contact with a bigger person. Even NFL players do that. This does not exonerate Quentin.

Yeah
Guest
Yeah
3 years 2 months ago

I doubt he had time to think about what to do to least likely injure himself while defending himself.

TheGrandslamwich
Member
TheGrandslamwich
3 years 2 months ago

Basically what Bab said.

Great job with the sarcastic response though, Don!

Capey
Guest
Capey
3 years 2 months ago

I’m sorry Robby, but your comments here are easily the dumbest comments I have ever read on this site.

wiggly
Guest
wiggly
3 years 2 months ago

I’d have to put yours there too: thanks for adding to the discussion.

Yeah
Guest
Yeah
3 years 2 months ago

Wiggly, you surely realize the irony of your statement here, right?

OhhYesss
Guest
OhhYesss
3 years 2 months ago

If I’m the Dodgers I throw at this guy Quentin every single time he comes up for the rest of the season.

Whether you think Greinke was taunting him or not, there’s no way you intentionally plunk somebody in the 6th inning of a 1 run game in a 3-2 count.

I agree w/ Mattingly in that Quentin suspension should be tied to Greinke’s return. And this is coming from a Giants fan.

Phrozen
Guest
Phrozen
3 years 2 months ago

Yes, because the umpires will never catch on and will not hand out ejections and suspensions every time.

OhhYesss
Guest
OhhYesss
3 years 2 months ago

I’m just trying to make the point that what Quentin pulled last night was one of the most bush league things I’ve seen on a baseball field in a along time.

CircleChange11
Guest
CircleChange11
3 years 2 months ago

Oh c’mon, if Greinke hadn’t tried to match TCQ’s shoulder blast, and neither guy was injured, the issue would be news for half a day.

If Greinke hadn’t slammed his glove down and tried to “fight fire with fire” and just took a step back and barked something like “chill out” or some other phrase, then it’s pretty much like every other baseball “brawl” where there’s some pushing, jersey pulling, and yelling … and then everyone would be complaining about just another charging where no one throws a punch or is danger of getting hurt.

I was not under the impression that either guy thought the beaning was intentional. My impression was that TCQ took issue with the reaction/comment afterwards.

Pitchers don;t have to drop to their knees and beg for forgiveness, but plenty of pitchers turn away, will slap their glove, will put both hands up (my bad), or something else that shows frustration, but not intent.

When I watch the video, my view is that Greinke acted all tough about it. In the real world the result would most often be a middle finger or a “F*** You” followed by the person going on about their day. In the sporting world, some confrontation is the expectation. We regular people don;t live in a world where being “punked out” (so to speak) is part of anything we have to deal with.

CircleChange11
Guest
CircleChange11
3 years 2 months ago

Would you really?

Or is this just internet tough talk?

I’m guessing in real life you don’t beat the S*** out of everyone that disrespects you or challenges you with a gesture or look.

Jason B
Guest
Jason B
3 years 2 months ago

Because of course “beating the sh!t out of everyone that disrespects you” is perfectly acceptable in sports? (?!?!)

(!!!!)

Mario Mendoza
Member
Mario Mendoza
3 years 2 months ago

So, uh, anyone know how long a pitcher takes to recover from a broken collarbone?

Mark
Guest
Mark
3 years 2 months ago

Probably like 2-3 months.

Dennis Martinez
Guest
Dennis Martinez
3 years 2 months ago

Zack, you’re doing it all wrong.

Observe.

http://www.fangraphs.com/not/lover-not-fighter-dennis-martinez/

Benzedrine
Guest
Benzedrine
3 years 2 months ago

If only Mo Vaughn were around to take out the trash.

mike wants wins
Guest
mike wants wins
3 years 2 months ago

Violens in the face of, umm, nothing, is never the answer. In what world does charging the mound help make the world a better place?

Tim
Guest
Tim
3 years 2 months ago

One where the evil mound-creatures are rising up to enslave humanity?

CircleChange11
Guest
CircleChange11
3 years 2 months ago

Charging the mound may make a safer environment for batters.

How does War make the world a better place?

The whole point of charging the mound is to let the pitcher know that there are consequences for hitting a batter above and beyond the batter just getting first base.

I’m sure the batters view it as “standing up for themselves”, much the same way dads might tell a sons to clock someone that keeps making fun of them at school.

atoms
Guest
atoms
3 years 2 months ago

I prefer violins

mike wants wins
Guest
mike wants wins
3 years 2 months ago

Can you edit stupide typos? ugh…..

Garys of Olde
Member
Member
Garys of Olde
3 years 2 months ago

Yes, but you have to do it before you post.

Max Grady
Guest
Max Grady
3 years 2 months ago

Carlos Quentin should be suspended for the maximum possible penalty. He made no attempt to get out of the way of what looked like a solid brush-back pitch. That’s why he got hit, and why he gets hit more than any hitter in the league; he crowds the plate and doesn’t move when the ball is thrown inside. Secondly, Quentin instigated the brawl and was directly responsible for Greinke’s injury by charging at him, full-throttle. I’m not a Dodgers fan, but this clown needs to be suspended for a significant number of games for MLB to retain even a hint of moral credibility.

glib
Guest
glib
3 years 2 months ago

Had that pitch broken a rib, the majority of comments here would probably be on the other side of the issue. And they still might break one of his bones, with all the games they have yet to play. Concur that Quentin is the highest authority in baseball when it comes to discriminating between intentional and unintentional HBP.

Bronnt
Member
Bronnt
3 years 2 months ago

A few thoughts:

1) That pitch would have had to have been a good bit further inside to break a rib. A

2) If his rib was broken, Carlos Quentin wouldn’t have charged the mound.

3) Given that Quentin thought this was intentional, in a 3-2 count, in a 1-run game, while every other pitch that PA was on the outer half of the plate, I don’t put any stock into Quentin’s so-called authority on this matter.

4) And no, the majority of comments would likely not be reversed here. If a batter gets hit, it’s largely because the pitcher’s job is to throw near him, and his intent will always be subjectively debatable. There’s no subjectivity about Quentin’s intent here-his job isn’t to charge the mound. There’s no doubt that he wanted to harm Greinke, and he did.

John
Guest
John
3 years 2 months ago

Statistically, there are far more injuries caused by pitchers hitting batters than by batters charging the mound.

And by the way, it wouldn’t be the first time that a pitcher has intentionally hit a batter in a 3-2 count in a one run game. Mattingly is a moron.

Yeah
Guest
Yeah
3 years 2 months ago

“Statistically, there are far more injuries caused by pitchers hitting batters than by batters charging the mound.”

Why is this relevant?

jfree
Member
jfree
3 years 2 months ago

That is precisely why I think the pitch WAS intentional. Quentin has Greinke’s number as a batter. And he doesn’t ever give up any part of HIS box (batters box) to any pitcher who wants to throw brushback pitches.

Greinke got to a full count being able to use only the outer half of the strike zone. Precisely because Quentin intimidates pitchers who throw inside. Greinke’s “legitimate” options were a)throw outside for a likely walk and “lose” the battle for strike zone control or b)throw down the middle/inside for a likely very hard hit and “lose” the battle for missing contact

So out of frustration and an attempt to at least salvage a “draw” out of that appearance (a HBP being much better than a wussy BB for that), he throws it well inside and out of the zone – knowing Quentin-being-Quentin will be hit. And when Quentin stares him down, Greinke compounds it by saying “Take your base bitch”

Bronnt
Member
Bronnt
3 years 2 months ago

I mean, he got two strikes on Quentin using the outer half of the plate. It’s fairly idiotic to claim that his options were “walk him” or “hit him.” Especially since Quentin was 0-2 on the day with a strike out.

The pitch wasn’t even THAT far inside. It certainly got away from Greinke a bit, since he missed the plate by six inches, but I honestly see no reason to believe it was intentional. After feeding Quentin stuff low and outside all day, not a bad idea to try to catch him with a fastball in on his hands.

81
Member
3 years 2 months ago

Must… speak in… fragmented, sentences.

atoms
Guest
atoms
3 years 2 months ago

Greinke hit Quentin’s shoulder, not his wrist. And Quentin sure didn’t make much effort to get out of the way.

John
Guest
John
3 years 2 months ago

He was hit on the wrist two days earlier by another Dodger pitcher.

BJsWorld
Guest
BJsWorld
3 years 2 months ago

The length of the injury should not be a factor. If Greinke would have escaped uninjured Carlos would still be deserving of punishment.

Automatic suspension for 2 games for starting towards the mound. Going after the pitcher in any way is another 30 days.

You would eliminate mound charging altogether. The penalty is so punitive that only an idiot where dare violate it. The league already has the ability to suspend pitchers for head hunting. Both sides would be fairly protected.

John
Guest
John
3 years 2 months ago

So what stops pitchers from throwing at batters (which by the way causes far more injuries than charging the mound)?

deadpool
Guest
deadpool
3 years 2 months ago

I’m going to go with a) it puts a guy on base, and b) if you do it clearly on purpose (and sometimes not so clearly) you get suspended as well.

Batters cannot be the enforcers here, to say its best to leave it to them to sort on the field is perhaps the most irresponsible stance anyone could take.

Jason B
Guest
Jason B
3 years 2 months ago

Not to mention that in the NL, the opposing pitcher can chuck it at the offending pitcher, or (in either league) target the opponents’ best hitter as retaliation.

yung joc
Guest
yung joc
3 years 2 months ago

As a hitter, you just can’t step forward like that. Once you do that, you’re the one who has the burden of guilt. Greinke, for all his supposed awkwardness, is pretty aggressively competitive, so once Quentin did that I’m not surprised he had the reaction he did. I’ve been hit with a pitch (maybe not that hard, but 85, ok) and it’s not fun, but you just don’t step to the pitcher. If you have words on the way to first and then it goes somewhere, maybe the blame is a little more ambiguous.

CircleChange11
Guest
CircleChange11
3 years 2 months ago

When I watch the video, I see a 3-2 pitch where the catcher is set up low and away, so TCQ “has to” hold his ground (not that he’d dive out of the way anyway).

The ball misses it’s target horribly, TCQ spins around and like you say steps toward the mound. We see batters do this quite a bit, sort of taking the “long way around” to the baseline. I don;t agree with it and I think it’s kind of a cheap way of allowing the batter to “make a move” toward the mound without it really counting as “making a move”.

Then, Greinke says something that appear to be like “Oh, really?” as if suggesting there’s no way TCQ will complete the charge, then TCQ starts to charge and mutters something that looks like “F*** that”. Greinke says something else like “ok!” as TCQ is charging.

I think both guys have the reputation as being very intense. TCQ is straight-up crazy in his intensity level on the field. Very calm off the field. Greinke is a weird personality and is highly competitive and somewhat aloof and abrasive (according to reports). So, it’s not a good mix for a situation to stay calm or not be escalated.

I don;t really blame either guy as if it’s a false dichotomy. They both did stuff, both appeared to want to fight once it got to a certain point, and both are big boys that will deal with the consequences. The sucky part is that Grienke got hurt, otherwise it’s just another 5-game suspension for both guys and the sporting world goes on.

SBO
Guest
SBO
3 years 2 months ago

It’s an understatement to say Carlos Quentin gets hit by pitches a lot. He is #2 ALL TIME in hit by pitches per plate appearance (0.0415). To put that in context, the historical average for those with hit by pitch data on this site is 0.0065.

John
Guest
John
3 years 2 months ago

And Greinke has hit him 3 times in 28 at bats. That’s over 10%.

Yeah
Guest
Yeah
3 years 2 months ago

Bedard has hit Quentin 3 times in 9 at bats, that’s over 30%. Quentin gets hit in just over 4% of ALL his at bats, considering that with a small sample 10% is hardly unusual.

stan
Guest
stan
3 years 2 months ago

Has anyone seen the Bedard pitches though? If they were breaking balls, then who cares? Were they all right at your neck fastballs like Grienke’s three? Somehow I doubt it.

Yeah
Guest
Yeah
3 years 2 months ago

Stan here is a list of pitchers who have hit Quentin more than once, and the percent that he has been hit in his at bats against them:

Erik Bedard: 33%
Jim Johnson: 25%
Jon Lester: 20%
Carlos Silva: 18.2%
Brett Anderson: 16.7%
Jeff Niemann: 15.4%
Glen Perkins: 15.4%
Bruce Chen: 14.3%
Kevin Millwood: 14.3%
John Lackey: 13.3%
David Price: 12.5%
Jake Westbrook: 11.8%
Kyle Davies: 11.1%
Nick Blackburn: 10.8%
Francisco Liriano: 10.5%
Zack Greinke: 9.7%

I suppose all of the pitchers above Greinke were throwing breaking pitches, and therefor okay? Quentin gets hit a ton, has a terrible temper, and attacked another player resulting in an extremely costly injury. He was 100% in the wrong and deserves an enormous suspension.

But
Guest
But
3 years 2 months ago

I didn’t see it mentioned, but Marquis sailed the ball towards the Dodgers third man in the lineup(Kemp), as well, in the first. Neither that one, nor the pitch to Quentin looked intentional according to where the catchers were set up, but the batters wouldn’t know that.

Both pitches got away, but it looked as though the Marquis pitch went straight, whereas, the Greinke pitch had more movement. I know Quentin doesn’t avoid pitches often, but even he wouldn’t take one in the face. And it was right below it.

stan
Guest
stan
3 years 2 months ago

On the contrary, I thought they both were intentional. The catcher wasn’t set up behind the batter, and pitchers don’t accidentally throw that far into the batter’s box.

Yeah
Guest
Yeah
3 years 2 months ago

Of course they don’t, pitchers never miss their spots, I mean that would be ridiculous! Hahahaha can you even imagine if that happened?

DC
Guest
DC
3 years 2 months ago

As a long time White Sox fan, I’m well aware of the bad blood that exists. This article spells it all out for you.
http://www.southsideasylum.com/2013/04/carlos-quentin-zack-greinke-fight.html

John
Guest
John
3 years 2 months ago

To all of the Greinke apologists I say, if you hit a big strong guy 3 times in 28 at bats, you really shouldn’t taunt him after the third time. If Greinke hadn’t said anything to Quentin after hitting him, he would still be able to pitch. It’s quite that simple. You sound like one of the idiots in Pamplona complaining that a bull ran him over after poking him with a stick.

Yeah
Guest
Yeah
3 years 2 months ago

Carlos Quentin is a human being, I don’t suppose this matters?

Dave
Guest
Dave
3 years 2 months ago

RE: Bull metaphor. So your argument is that Quentin lacks the capacity for reason?

Jay29
Member
Jay29
3 years 2 months ago

I wonder if all this macho garbage would be reduced if batters got TWO bases for HBPs. Then pitchers wouldn’t throw up and in quite as much, and batters would be more rational about a pitcher’s desire to bean them.

Bob
Guest
Bob
3 years 2 months ago

I think enough has been said here…but in regards to Quentin not attempting to get out of the way…go watch the clip again, and use the pause button. It’s hilarious just how much he doesn’t try to move. He watched the pitch all the way into the meat on his arm…so…good eye, I guess. But he didn’t move a freaking centimeter, just stood and took it. So take the freaking base….for a guy that hits .250 and rarely walks, you should be happy to get on for a change.

Bob
Guest
Bob
3 years 2 months ago

Not to mention, if he’d have just spun out of the way, he’d have got the base anyway…what a douche nozzle.

stan
Guest
stan
3 years 2 months ago

From Jayson Stark: Grienke has hit Quentin 3 times in 31 plate appearances. He’s hit 19 other batters total in the remainder of his career.

Yeah
Guest
Yeah
3 years 2 months ago

Bedard has hit him 3 times in 9 at bats, your point?

MLB Rainmaker
Guest
MLB Rainmaker
3 years 2 months ago

Two missing things to “do the homework” on Greinke:

1) Here’s where Greinke beaned Quentin in 2009.
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=26212187&c_id=mlb

This clip doesn’t show the pitch before which just missed Quentin, and was up higher. Greinke threw twice high and tight, with purpose to hit Quentin.

2) Greinke is a firey guy. Here is him getting tossed from a game he wasn’t even playing in, from the dugout.
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=6829745&c_id=mlb
Here’s him tossed again.
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=22924929&c_id=mlb&topic_id=vtp_fc_clip

At the end of the day it takes two to tango — Greinke was purposely pitching in to get Quentin off the plate, Quentin was on edge cause Greinke had come after him intentionally before. Both players were wrong. The fact that Greinke got injured is immaterial. If Greinke the ball was 2 inches higher and tagged Quentin in the face/head, possibly ending his season, would his punishment be different?

Jcutiger
Guest
Jcutiger
3 years 2 months ago

That was all on CQ.

Kevin
Guest
Kevin
3 years 2 months ago

seems to me like a case of two aggressive personalities with some prior history finally reaching a breaking point. both quentin and greinke seemed very willing to settle things the old fashioned way, so neither is a white night in this case. obviously, a large portion of the blame goes to quentin, but while we’ve seen pitchers retreat in situations like this to avoid injury, greinke does nothing of the sort, actually throwing his body at the charging quentin. unfortunate that greinke comes out of this with an injury, but that’s what happens when you go into the woods: sometimes you get the bear, and sometimes the bear gets you.

Hex_0r
Guest
Hex_0r
3 years 2 months ago

These two have had beef in the past. Q was restrained at the plate in 2009 trying to charge G.

Obviously this was just a bad pitch. Q over reacted and charged.

The fact that G said ANYTHING to him after the pitch, did not help the situation. G defends himself like (most) people would put in that situation.

They are both at fault.

NATS Fan
Guest
NATS Fan
3 years 2 months ago

Now I saw the game and the at bat on MLB.tv and I would swear on my child’s life that pitch was blatantly trying to hit Quentin on his bum wrist. Another pitch had already been thrown in the same spot and hit Quentin, but Quentin’s checked swing was ruled a swing for a strike, so no HBP. In my opinion, as someone who cared not one wit for the outcome of that game and saw the pitch, the blame for this episode is mostly Greinke’s. Quentin does not charge the mound until Greinke said something deliberate to Quentin. In fact the dodgers dugout was already advancing off the benches as Quentin charged, so whatever Greinke said had the Dodgers bench charging him. Quentin just got there first.

Maverick Squad
Guest
Maverick Squad
3 years 2 months ago

Quentin initiated the fight by charging the mound but Greinke was an active participant by going at him. If Greinke didn’t want to fight he would’ve backed off or at least stood there and tried to tackle or grab or whatever. But Greinke went at him and they bumped each other like 2 deer or whatever. And that’s where he broke his collarbone. I would like to see them both get big suspensions, esp. Quentin who instigated it. generally I think the fighting suspensions are too weak to begin with. Quentin 7-10 games or something like htat. Greinke since he’s injured doesn’t matter I suppose.

Scoops25
Member
Scoops25
3 years 2 months ago

Too much of a sob story for Greinke. Quentin overreacted, yes, since in no way could that have been intentional. However, Greinke egged him on. Quentin took steps forward immediately after, but it wasn’t until Greinke walked toward him and mouthed something that Quentin exploded. Still not justifiable on Q’s part, but Greinke definitely contibuted. It

Wash my baseballs
Guest
Wash my baseballs
3 years 2 months ago

People seem to be parroting Mattingly when he was saying something along the lines of “what kind of idiot thinks it’s on purpose when it’s 3-2 in a one run game.” Have you guys seen the Padres play? There is NOBODY in that lineup (Headley is hurt) who poses any offensive threat to the Dodgers. So plunking Quentin really isn’t all that “stupid.” In the live broadcast, Vin Scully suggested it was a beanball in retaliation for an earlier pitch that went over Matt Kemp’s head. I don’t question Vin Scully’s baseball acumen.

If it WAS a beanball, everyone did their job as dictated by 100 years of baseball etiquette. Greinke beaned. Quentin charged. Greinke stood his ground. Then physics happened. Quentin has more physics than Grienke, and Grienke got hurt.

If Grienke’s injury prohibits him from washing his balls, it sure seems like there are plenty of people to help him out.

NATS Fan
Guest
NATS Fan
3 years 2 months ago

Wow you guys are commenting without having watched the game. Greinke is clearly at fault here. His pitch was viewed by me and the announcers of the game as defending his team from a wild pitch earlier in the game. Greinke the two pitches in the same spot and both hit Quentin on the wrist. The first pitch was ruled a strike because Quentin’s checked swing was viewed as having gone to far. Quentin clutched his wrist and walked off the mound. He then came back and Greinke threw a pitch right at his wrist and hit it. This time Quentin did not swing. He rather made on step sort of halfway towards first and the pitching mound while clutching his wrist and dropping his bat. Greinke then steps towards Quentin a good 2-3 seconds or more after finishing the pitch and said something that both benches clearly heard. The same instant Quentin charged the benches were already clearing. Greinke obviously up for the fight braced himself for Quentin’s charge. Greinke made zero attempt to avoid Quentin or to avoid the collision. Quentin hit him and knocked him back several feet. At that point the Dodger team tackled Greinke and piled on him. Greinke could very easily been injured in the pile up. In fact the announcers felt the pile up was very likely to injury Greinke. Both players then left the game and I assumed were ejected. My broadcast did not show the umps ejecting anyone, but rather followed the other players now skirmishing. I place nearly all the blame on Greinke and feel he deserves a suspension and a fine. He clearly attempted to hit Quentin on his swore wrist with at least two pitches, and then incited Quentin’s and the Dodger benches anger with whatever he said.

Matt
Guest
Matt
3 years 2 months ago

Always amazing how someone who “watched the game” still manages to just see what they want

sluggerrr
Guest
sluggerrr
3 years 2 months ago

I’ve seen a few comments about how getting hit with fastballs sucks- but i don’t think that was a fastball. In game it looked to me like a slider or cutter. the radar had it at 89 mph. I think that Greinke can throw a lot harder than 89 mph. It appears to me to be a cutter that didn’t cut. At any rate, it hardly appears that Greinke was intentionally hitting the Mad Bull with a fastball.

Midpoint
Guest
Midpoint
3 years 2 months ago

Lots of reports by independent authors of prior Greinke headhunting of Quentin completely missing from the authors report, apparently the author doesn’t realize that Quentin can duck. ZG is reported to be an excellent pitcher, he also is well known for prior mental issues. Would such a pitcher, throwing those fast fast balls your head bother you? ZG was ready to go all the way, most pitchers do not charge the hitter – so no way that he didn’t mean the HBP. ZG was much more like Roger Clements throwing the splintered bat Mike Piazza.

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