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	<title>Comments on: ALCS Coverage: The Umps</title>
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	<description>Daily baseball statistical analysis and commentary</description>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/alcs-coverage-the-umps/#comment-103425</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 14:19:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=10576#comment-103425</guid>
		<description>My God, Dave!  What a good, and what a SIMPLE, idea.  Wow. :)

I haven&#039;t read any of the comments, but gosh.  What a good idea, and it&#039;s so simple.

It&#039;ll never fly. *sigh*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My God, Dave!  What a good, and what a SIMPLE, idea.  Wow. :)</p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t read any of the comments, but gosh.  What a good idea, and it&#8217;s so simple.</p>
<p>It&#8217;ll never fly. *sigh*</p>
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		<title>By: Eric M. Van</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/alcs-coverage-the-umps/#comment-103399</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric M. Van</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 05:58:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=10576#comment-103399</guid>
		<description>Re the Aybar DP: the point there was that that play is never called, and it seemed arbitrary and capricious to suddenly start calling it then.  Compare the HBP of Mike Napoli by Josh Beckett in the 7th inning of Game 2 of that series, which was as blatant a case of a batter making no effort to avoid being hit as you&#039;ll ever see.  That wasn&#039;t called, and the only justification for not calling it was that the umpires virtually never call it.

I agree that both plays should be called consistently, by the book, but the umpires have no one to blame but themselves for these controversies because they&#039;ve made a habit of calling them wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re the Aybar DP: the point there was that that play is never called, and it seemed arbitrary and capricious to suddenly start calling it then.  Compare the HBP of Mike Napoli by Josh Beckett in the 7th inning of Game 2 of that series, which was as blatant a case of a batter making no effort to avoid being hit as you&#8217;ll ever see.  That wasn&#8217;t called, and the only justification for not calling it was that the umpires virtually never call it.</p>
<p>I agree that both plays should be called consistently, by the book, but the umpires have no one to blame but themselves for these controversies because they&#8217;ve made a habit of calling them wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric M. Van</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/alcs-coverage-the-umps/#comment-103398</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric M. Van</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 05:52:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=10576#comment-103398</guid>
		<description>Dave&#039;s suggestion is terrific and should be implemented for the WS.

I&#039;ve got a list and WPA analysis of all the blown calls this post-season at 

http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?s=&amp;showtopic=50363&amp;view=findpost&amp;p=2640764

Regarding the automatic calling of balls and strikes, something I&#039;ve been dreaming about for thirty years: pitch/fx already does a better job of calling balls and strikes than human umpires.  But there are several problems with it, and one of them is that the top and bottom of the strike zone are set manually, by operators watching video, and can be very inconsistent from PA to PA or even from pitch to pitch.  But it might be possible to implement a better system.

The other thing worth noting is that the average de facto strike zone is not the rulebook zone.  It is wider than the plate, and wider to the umpire&#039;s left than right, and it doesn&#039;t go down as far as the rulebook says it should (basically, umps require all the ball to above the knees rather than any part of the ball), and it&#039;s not rectangular -- the expansion off the plate is usually not called for pitches at the top and bottom of the zone.  But an average de facto strike zone could be determined and easily implemented.

Finally, the impact of inconsistent and/or idiosyncratic home plate umpiring is probably much greater than the impact of blown calls on the bases.  Based on the analysis I&#039;ve done with pitch/fx I don&#039;t think it&#039;s at all unusual for one team to be given a edge of over half a run over the other (measured by WPA * 10).  And the argument that any strike zone is OK as long as its consistent is bs -- why should the ump determine that it&#039;s going to be a bad night for a pitcher who works down in the zone but a good one for his opponent who works up?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave&#8217;s suggestion is terrific and should be implemented for the WS.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve got a list and WPA analysis of all the blown calls this post-season at </p>
<p><a href="http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?s=&#038;showtopic=50363&#038;view=findpost&#038;p=2640764" rel="nofollow">http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?s=&#038;showtopic=50363&#038;view=findpost&#038;p=2640764</a></p>
<p>Regarding the automatic calling of balls and strikes, something I&#8217;ve been dreaming about for thirty years: pitch/fx already does a better job of calling balls and strikes than human umpires.  But there are several problems with it, and one of them is that the top and bottom of the strike zone are set manually, by operators watching video, and can be very inconsistent from PA to PA or even from pitch to pitch.  But it might be possible to implement a better system.</p>
<p>The other thing worth noting is that the average de facto strike zone is not the rulebook zone.  It is wider than the plate, and wider to the umpire&#8217;s left than right, and it doesn&#8217;t go down as far as the rulebook says it should (basically, umps require all the ball to above the knees rather than any part of the ball), and it&#8217;s not rectangular &#8212; the expansion off the plate is usually not called for pitches at the top and bottom of the zone.  But an average de facto strike zone could be determined and easily implemented.</p>
<p>Finally, the impact of inconsistent and/or idiosyncratic home plate umpiring is probably much greater than the impact of blown calls on the bases.  Based on the analysis I&#8217;ve done with pitch/fx I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s at all unusual for one team to be given a edge of over half a run over the other (measured by WPA * 10).  And the argument that any strike zone is OK as long as its consistent is bs &#8212; why should the ump determine that it&#8217;s going to be a bad night for a pitcher who works down in the zone but a good one for his opponent who works up?</p>
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		<title>By: Tom B</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/alcs-coverage-the-umps/#comment-103371</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 00:43:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=10576#comment-103371</guid>
		<description>and if the player adjusts his stance they can easily update his strike zone. why are you fighting this so hard?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and if the player adjusts his stance they can easily update his strike zone. why are you fighting this so hard?</p>
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		<title>By: Logan</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/alcs-coverage-the-umps/#comment-103369</link>
		<dc:creator>Logan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 00:21:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=10576#comment-103369</guid>
		<description>They’re also willing to defer to each other. The home plate umpire asks the base umps for help on check swings.

You run into an umpire every now and then that refuses to check with the base umps and get help.  That is a huge pet peeve of mine.  It usually precedes a guy getting thrown out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They’re also willing to defer to each other. The home plate umpire asks the base umps for help on check swings.</p>
<p>You run into an umpire every now and then that refuses to check with the base umps and get help.  That is a huge pet peeve of mine.  It usually precedes a guy getting thrown out.</p>
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		<title>By: Bah!</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/alcs-coverage-the-umps/#comment-103361</link>
		<dc:creator>Bah!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 23:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=10576#comment-103361</guid>
		<description>To be sure, it&#039;s the ump&#039;s job to get the calls right and I would hope that MLB wants to do everything it can to ensure that they get calls right. However, it is not clear to me that the increased use of technology will necessarily solve the problem.

At the heart of this issue is, I think, both the way that MLB treats umpires and our understanding of what the umpires&#039; job actually is. Remember, umpires are not trained by MLB and are often seen as a another piece of equipment, like bases and bats. A &quot;necessary evil.&quot; Furthermore, there is a certain perception that fans have of umpires that is...well...murderous. Puts &#039;em in an impossible position. They get a call wrong, and they are excoriated. They get a rightly call a runner safe because the base was not tagged (Ayebar not tagging 2B while turning a DP), and Joe Buck and Tim McCarver say that that the ump made the &quot;wrong&quot; call. The ump can&#039;t win: make the wrong call and fans are all over them; make the correct call, and we invoke &quot;give &#039;em the benefit of the doubt...&quot;

There are a host of things that we need to take into account (that Bruce Weber&#039;s recent book and Fay Vincent&#039;s New York Times op-ed piece show) about not only how we think about what umpiring should be but how we understand and perceive those people in blue and those practices and institutions that are responsible for umpiring. 

The increase of technology may be part of the solution to this problem, but let&#039;s at least say that it is only &quot;part&quot; of the solution to a much bigger problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be sure, it&#8217;s the ump&#8217;s job to get the calls right and I would hope that MLB wants to do everything it can to ensure that they get calls right. However, it is not clear to me that the increased use of technology will necessarily solve the problem.</p>
<p>At the heart of this issue is, I think, both the way that MLB treats umpires and our understanding of what the umpires&#8217; job actually is. Remember, umpires are not trained by MLB and are often seen as a another piece of equipment, like bases and bats. A &#8220;necessary evil.&#8221; Furthermore, there is a certain perception that fans have of umpires that is&#8230;well&#8230;murderous. Puts &#8216;em in an impossible position. They get a call wrong, and they are excoriated. They get a rightly call a runner safe because the base was not tagged (Ayebar not tagging 2B while turning a DP), and Joe Buck and Tim McCarver say that that the ump made the &#8220;wrong&#8221; call. The ump can&#8217;t win: make the wrong call and fans are all over them; make the correct call, and we invoke &#8220;give &#8216;em the benefit of the doubt&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>There are a host of things that we need to take into account (that Bruce Weber&#8217;s recent book and Fay Vincent&#8217;s New York Times op-ed piece show) about not only how we think about what umpiring should be but how we understand and perceive those people in blue and those practices and institutions that are responsible for umpiring. </p>
<p>The increase of technology may be part of the solution to this problem, but let&#8217;s at least say that it is only &#8220;part&#8221; of the solution to a much bigger problem.</p>
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		<title>By: TLB</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/alcs-coverage-the-umps/#comment-103359</link>
		<dc:creator>TLB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 23:15:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=10576#comment-103359</guid>
		<description>&quot;By 2015 will we have cyborg set-up men with remote-controlled pitch arsensals?&quot;

I hope so!  Think how sweet that would be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;By 2015 will we have cyborg set-up men with remote-controlled pitch arsensals?&#8221;</p>
<p>I hope so!  Think how sweet that would be.</p>
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		<title>By: Nestor Chylak</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/alcs-coverage-the-umps/#comment-103356</link>
		<dc:creator>Nestor Chylak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 23:02:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=10576#comment-103356</guid>
		<description>haha -8... I was kidding...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>haha -8&#8230; I was kidding&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: tyrone</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/alcs-coverage-the-umps/#comment-103342</link>
		<dc:creator>tyrone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 21:46:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=10576#comment-103342</guid>
		<description>A replay ump system would solve the awful calls in yesterday&#039;s game without much trouble, so that would be a good thing.  Not so sure about certain other calls though.  Right now, runners are routinely called out on plays in which &quot;the ball beat him to the base&quot; even though a tag wasn&#039;t strictly applied.  Middle infielders are (for the most part) given the benefit of the doubt when turning the double play at second.  The popular rationale seems to be that giving the defense those calls helps to prevent injuries, and players and managers seem pretty much okay with that state of affairs.  

How replay would affect those types of calls and if/how the players would change their behavior to get those calls isn&#039;t completely clear (at least to me) and might be something to consider.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A replay ump system would solve the awful calls in yesterday&#8217;s game without much trouble, so that would be a good thing.  Not so sure about certain other calls though.  Right now, runners are routinely called out on plays in which &#8220;the ball beat him to the base&#8221; even though a tag wasn&#8217;t strictly applied.  Middle infielders are (for the most part) given the benefit of the doubt when turning the double play at second.  The popular rationale seems to be that giving the defense those calls helps to prevent injuries, and players and managers seem pretty much okay with that state of affairs.  </p>
<p>How replay would affect those types of calls and if/how the players would change their behavior to get those calls isn&#8217;t completely clear (at least to me) and might be something to consider.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/alcs-coverage-the-umps/#comment-103338</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 21:27:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=10576#comment-103338</guid>
		<description>I think it&#039;s excessively hopeful to think that these things can be resolved quickly.  In order to reverse a call, a booth umpire is going to have to be sure - to look at more than one angle of replay, which can often play tricks with perspective.  A quick decision like a check-swing call is liable to end up with the occasional correct calls overturned because they initially looked wrong.  I&#039;m fine with advocating review, but it&#039;s cutting corners to authoritatively state it would be simple.  I recall that when NFL replay was instituted, it seemed to people that most of the calls would be easy to quickly determine, but soon found themselves watching constant, interminable delays, even over calls that seemed clear at first.  I am in agreement with Joe Posnanski that the real crime of replay in the NFL is the suffocation of drama, as pretty much any game-deciding play has to be subjected to scrutiny before we can cheer.

I certainly understand the argument for getting all the calls right, but the only replay system I don&#039;t mind is tennis, which is automated and immediately accepted as truth.  Like the NFL, baseball has a problem with pacing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s excessively hopeful to think that these things can be resolved quickly.  In order to reverse a call, a booth umpire is going to have to be sure &#8211; to look at more than one angle of replay, which can often play tricks with perspective.  A quick decision like a check-swing call is liable to end up with the occasional correct calls overturned because they initially looked wrong.  I&#8217;m fine with advocating review, but it&#8217;s cutting corners to authoritatively state it would be simple.  I recall that when NFL replay was instituted, it seemed to people that most of the calls would be easy to quickly determine, but soon found themselves watching constant, interminable delays, even over calls that seemed clear at first.  I am in agreement with Joe Posnanski that the real crime of replay in the NFL is the suffocation of drama, as pretty much any game-deciding play has to be subjected to scrutiny before we can cheer.</p>
<p>I certainly understand the argument for getting all the calls right, but the only replay system I don&#8217;t mind is tennis, which is automated and immediately accepted as truth.  Like the NFL, baseball has a problem with pacing.</p>
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