Comments on: BBWAA, Get Your Act Together! http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/bbwaa-get-your-act-together/ Daily baseball statistical analysis and commentary Sun, 12 Feb 2012 21:26:01 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Chicago renovation http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/bbwaa-get-your-act-together/#comment-663259 Chicago renovation Thu, 14 Apr 2011 15:16:13 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/bbwaa-get-your-act-together/#comment-663259 Thx for this blog. Very good. Thx for this blog. Very good.

]]> By: SP http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/bbwaa-get-your-act-together/#comment-51751 SP Fri, 14 Nov 2008 20:51:09 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/bbwaa-get-your-act-together/#comment-51751 And one more qualitative thing to add. Halladay had 5 tough losses (loss in a quality start). Lee had none. Halladay has 0 cheap wins (win in a non-quality start). Lee had one. And one more qualitative thing to add. Halladay had 5 tough losses (loss in a quality start). Lee had none. Halladay has 0 cheap wins (win in a non-quality start). Lee had one.

]]> By: Matt http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/bbwaa-get-your-act-together/#comment-51747 Matt Fri, 14 Nov 2008 20:22:16 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/bbwaa-get-your-act-together/#comment-51747 Neyer makes some good points.... Good read.... Lee was awesome, but it should've been Halladay, nuff said. Neyer makes some good points…. Good read…. Lee was awesome, but it should’ve been Halladay, nuff said.

]]> By: SP http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/bbwaa-get-your-act-together/#comment-51744 SP Fri, 14 Nov 2008 20:15:25 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/bbwaa-get-your-act-together/#comment-51744 Doesn't Lee's FIP-ERA difference and DIP% ratio being higher than Doc's mean that Lee was the one who got luckier as far as defense? Lee: ERA: 2.54, DIPS: 2.95, FIP: 2.92 FIP-ERA: 0.38, DIP%: 1.16 Halladay ERA: 2.78, DIPS: 3.07, FIP: 3.09 FIP-ERA: 0.31, DIP%: 1.11 This is all of course independent of the fact that Halladay faced much better competition. In addition to the BP blog I linked above, check out Rob Neyer's take on the competition gap: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3700775&name=Neyer_Rob So basically, Lee's biggest advantage over Halladay (ERA) is completely mitigated when considering competition. Doesn’t Lee’s FIP-ERA difference and DIP% ratio being higher than Doc’s mean that Lee was the one who got luckier as far as defense?

Lee:
ERA: 2.54, DIPS: 2.95, FIP: 2.92
FIP-ERA: 0.38, DIP%: 1.16

Halladay
ERA: 2.78, DIPS: 3.07, FIP: 3.09
FIP-ERA: 0.31, DIP%: 1.11

This is all of course independent of the fact that Halladay faced much better competition. In addition to the BP blog I linked above, check out Rob Neyer’s take on the competition gap: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3700775&name=Neyer_Rob

So basically, Lee’s biggest advantage over Halladay (ERA) is completely mitigated when considering competition.

]]> By: Steve http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/bbwaa-get-your-act-together/#comment-51723 Steve Fri, 14 Nov 2008 18:40:43 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/bbwaa-get-your-act-together/#comment-51723 Matt: You're calling the BBWAA "cavemen," but you want to make the Cy Young a vote based on years of performance and not just the season being voted on? I don't care how someone did the past three years. If next year Tug McGraw rises from the grave and wins 30 games with a .50 ERA, he deserves the CYA. Matt:

You’re calling the BBWAA “cavemen,” but you want to make the Cy Young a vote based on years of performance and not just the season being voted on?

I don’t care how someone did the past three years. If next year Tug McGraw rises from the grave and wins 30 games with a .50 ERA, he deserves the CYA.

]]> By: Eric Seidman http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/bbwaa-get-your-act-together/#comment-51701 Eric Seidman Fri, 14 Nov 2008 17:12:03 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/bbwaa-get-your-act-together/#comment-51701 Essentially, it isn't luck, persay, but rather the result of a tremendous season. There have been many 78%+ LOB seasons in the past... it's just that these aren't generally sustainable. He rose way above his true talent level on that one and it will definitely regress, but that doesn't make it luck in my book. If it were Halladay with the 1.11 WHIP and 78.5% LOB, who has a stellar and already established reputation, no way anyone here would chalk it up as luck. Instead it would be described as more of Halladay's mastery. Not to say you're wrong, but just that luck is the wrong word. Essentially, it isn’t luck, persay, but rather the result of a tremendous season. There have been many 78%+ LOB seasons in the past… it’s just that these aren’t generally sustainable. He rose way above his true talent level on that one and it will definitely regress, but that doesn’t make it luck in my book. If it were Halladay with the 1.11 WHIP and 78.5% LOB, who has a stellar and already established reputation, no way anyone here would chalk it up as luck. Instead it would be described as more of Halladay’s mastery. Not to say you’re wrong, but just that luck is the wrong word.

]]> By: Eric Seidman http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/bbwaa-get-your-act-together/#comment-51699 Eric Seidman Fri, 14 Nov 2008 17:10:45 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/bbwaa-get-your-act-together/#comment-51699 Jim, the gist of what you're saying rings true, but Lee's high LOB does not portend luck. Sure, I would rather have the 1.05 WHIP and 74.5% LOB pitcher over the 1.11 WHIP 78.5% LOB pitcher simply because a 78.5% LOB is not going to be sustainable whereas 74.5% isn't that much above league average. Lee had the ability to get out of jams he found himself in this year that wasn't 100% luck. Halladay created less jams for himself. Lee isn't a super-duper pitcher who can get out of any jam he gets himself into, but his change in approach to more of a GB pitcher this year definitely helped him increase his skill in getting himself out of situations. Jim, the gist of what you’re saying rings true, but Lee’s high LOB does not portend luck. Sure, I would rather have the 1.05 WHIP and 74.5% LOB pitcher over the 1.11 WHIP 78.5% LOB pitcher simply because a 78.5% LOB is not going to be sustainable whereas 74.5% isn’t that much above league average.

Lee had the ability to get out of jams he found himself in this year that wasn’t 100% luck. Halladay created less jams for himself. Lee isn’t a super-duper pitcher who can get out of any jam he gets himself into, but his change in approach to more of a GB pitcher this year definitely helped him increase his skill in getting himself out of situations.

]]> By: Jim http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/bbwaa-get-your-act-together/#comment-51698 Jim Fri, 14 Nov 2008 17:07:55 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/bbwaa-get-your-act-together/#comment-51698 Eric, I agree, but just something small to add: Cliff Lee had a higher LOB%, which does make the WHIP numbers a wash, but Halladay's better WHIP means he pitched better, and Lee's better LOB%, when it is that high, just means he got luckier. Eric, I agree, but just something small to add: Cliff Lee had a higher LOB%, which does make the WHIP numbers a wash, but Halladay’s better WHIP means he pitched better, and Lee’s better LOB%, when it is that high, just means he got luckier.

]]> By: Matt http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/bbwaa-get-your-act-together/#comment-51676 Matt Fri, 14 Nov 2008 14:57:08 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/bbwaa-get-your-act-together/#comment-51676 Great read. I am sorry, but Halladay should've won this award outright. Look at his total starts vs Bos, NYY and Tampa Bay (arguably the top 3-5 teams in the AL last season) well Halladay faced them 5 times each (I believe). With Boston and NYY being the toughest 'grind' for a starter, as both lineups are deep and very patient. In fact, Tampa's free swinging approach has actually worked the best against Halladay, a team he consistently has struggled against in his career. Cliff Lee played in a terrible division this season, look at the lineups he got to face, not to mention he pitched in very few (if any) meaningfull games (ok, none). While Halladay and the Jays played atleast a few very stressful meaningful games (a few, when they were pretending to contend). Roy takes the ball every 5 days and gives you his all, doesn't want to get pulled, finished more games himself than most pitching staffs in the game. 3.03 FIP, 5.3 K/BB, 1.4 BB/9, 0.7 HR/9 (Rogers Centre gives up more than average HR totals - and that takes into account the pathetically powerless Jays lineup for 81 games). Halladay threw harder this year, raised his K/9 to a respectable 7.5 and as always produced a fair share of groundballs (top 10 gb%). His defense is league best and converts more balls in play into outs, but he plays to this strength game in and game out - by design. Halladay got his generic standard "20 wins" that atleast gets him into the argument of the 'cavemen stat' followers. Well, the cavemen should atleast know the RS/G numbers as well, which was more a product of Lee's 22 victories. He pitched well, very well actually, but I give the nod to Halladay - his peripherals were just a bit better. In closing, if Cliff Lee does this next year, give him the award, but the fact that this one year wonder came out of nowhere (stats wise) to win this while Halladay has been doing this for years is another factor. Great read. I am sorry, but Halladay should’ve won this award outright. Look at his total starts vs Bos, NYY and Tampa Bay (arguably the top 3-5 teams in the AL last season) well Halladay faced them 5 times each (I believe). With Boston and NYY being the toughest ‘grind’ for a starter, as both lineups are deep and very patient. In fact, Tampa’s free swinging approach has actually worked the best against Halladay, a team he consistently has struggled against in his career.

Cliff Lee played in a terrible division this season, look at the lineups he got to face, not to mention he pitched in very few (if any) meaningfull games (ok, none). While Halladay and the Jays played atleast a few very stressful meaningful games (a few, when they were pretending to contend). Roy takes the ball every 5 days and gives you his all, doesn’t want to get pulled, finished more games himself than most pitching staffs in the game.

3.03 FIP, 5.3 K/BB, 1.4 BB/9, 0.7 HR/9 (Rogers Centre gives up more than average HR totals – and that takes into account the pathetically powerless Jays lineup for 81 games). Halladay threw harder this year, raised his K/9 to a respectable 7.5 and as always produced a fair share of groundballs (top 10 gb%). His defense is league best and converts more balls in play into outs, but he plays to this strength game in and game out – by design.

Halladay got his generic standard “20 wins” that atleast gets him into the argument of the ‘cavemen stat’ followers. Well, the cavemen should atleast know the RS/G numbers as well, which was more a product of Lee’s 22 victories. He pitched well, very well actually, but I give the nod to Halladay – his peripherals were just a bit better.

In closing, if Cliff Lee does this next year, give him the award, but the fact that this one year wonder came out of nowhere (stats wise) to win this while Halladay has been doing this for years is another factor.

]]> By: PaulDeReno http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/bbwaa-get-your-act-together/#comment-51606 PaulDeReno Fri, 14 Nov 2008 06:39:28 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/bbwaa-get-your-act-together/#comment-51606 Strike through was used for 2 reasons, one of which is the full acknoledgement that BBWAA does not decide the Gold Gloves, BTW Strike through was used for 2 reasons, one of which is the full acknoledgement that BBWAA does not decide the Gold Gloves, BTW

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