Big-Boned Base Stealers
Athletes that I would call both “fast” and “huge” are relatively common in football. I will try not to embarrass myself by talking about football at length, but take a guy like the 49ers’ Vernon Davis — a very fast tight end who weighs around 250 pounds. Some baseball players are that heavy and heavier, but they are not known as “fast” players. That is obviously connected to the different skills required for “game speed” in the respective sports.
Like many fans, I find “big-boned” baseball players quite entertaining. For example, Adrian Gonzalez and Pablo Sandoval are both wonderful players. Overall, Adrian Gonzalez is probably superior, objectively speaking. However, subjectively, I would much rather watch Pablo Sandoval, and I would be lying if I said that his “body type” had nothing to do with it.
While special events sometimes happen, the big guys in baseball rarely pull off “speed moves,” especially the main move — the stolen base. Leaving the (obvious and no-so-obvious) reasons for this aside, I thought it would be fun to look at the the top stolen base seasons by “big-boned” players in baseball history.
Let me begin by noting the obvious fact that listed heights and weights are probably inaccurate. Moreover, one weight is listed for each player, and hey, I weight exactly the same as I did when I was 21, don’t you? However, this is not a precision study, but an exp;oratoin of trivia, so we have to make do with what we have
I will be talking about a player being “big-boned” somewhat arbitrarily. For most of us, 228 pounds would be too big. Alex Rodriguez has done alright for himself at that (listed) weight. If we included him and others like him on the list of big-boned base stealers, it simply would not be that interesting.
My initial plan was to arbitrarily define “big-boned” as a player listed at 250 pounds or more and to look at all the seasons with 20 or more stolen bases by those players. There have been no such seasons. That was a bit surprising. Once I lowered the miniumum to 240 pounds, I found 16 seasons with 20 or more steals, and they are all attributed to only three players.
Derrek Lee (listed at 245 pounds) did it once, when he was the first baseman of the 2003 World Champion Florida Marlins. That team seemed to run a lot, but Lee was relatively efficient that season (only caught 8 times). Lee was traded to the Cubs after that season, and had a couple of seasons with double-digit steals. Some people seemed to think that Lee’s contract with the Cubs was a disaster and albatross, but looking at the numbers, he only had one bad season (2006). He was great for them in 2005 and 2009, and during the other seasons he was above-average.
Jose Canseco (listed at 240 pounds) had three seasons with at least 20 steals: 1991 (26 steals), 1998 (28 steals), and 1988 (his 40-40 season). Say what you want about Canseco, but the man definitely had his moments. I wonder what Jose is doing right now?
The other 12 seasons with at least 20 steals by a player listed at 240 pounds were all by Barry Bonds. I will not list them all here, other than to highlight his 40-40 season in 1996 (he was 31 when the season started) and his 52-steal season (only 33 dingers, though) in 1990. Writing about Bonds is sort of pointless for me, since his legacy is, fairly or unfairly, associated with “other stuff” that I am not really interested in. If one does not want to deal with that, it really boils down to a bunch of superlatives. Honestly, this is a case where the numbers simply speak for themselves.
In any case, none of those three players really stand out as “chunky” guys, they were all obviously athletic when they had their big seasons for steals. I finally just searched for the top steals seasons by any players 250 pounds or more, and came up with a pretty fun little list. Here are the top six (I would have done five, but there was a tie for fifth):
Carlos Lee (listed at 266), 17 steals in 2001
(We will come back to Lee.)
Dave Orr (listed at 250), 17 steals in 1887
Confession: I knew nothing about Dave Orr prior to doing this query and looking around the internet. Apparently he had a really nice run back in the 1880s, but his career ended when he had a stroke in 1890, when he was only 31. Listed weights for this era are even more dubious than contemporary ones, but if this old-timey baseball card is admitted as evidence, I do not think it is too far off.
Orr actually led the American Association in triples in 1885 and 1885, and hit for the cycle on on June 12, 1885. Bill James listed Orr as the 117th-best first baseman in baseball history in The New Historical Abstract page 475.
Andres Galarraga (listed at 250), 18 steals in 1996
Big Cat! If the Expos had had as many fans when they existed as now claim to have been, they would still be in business. By 1996, Galaragga was on the Colorado Rockies during the Utterly Isane Era at Coors, when a player could have a .402 wOBA and it would still be just a 123 wRC+. For the sake of comparison, Travis Hafner had a 123 wRC+ in 2011, with a .353 wOBA. Galaragga had six seasons with double-digit steals, but this season (at age 35~!) was his best.
Carlos Lee, 18 steals in 2003
Carlos Lee, 19 steals in 2006
If Derrek Lee’s contract with the Cubs was not as bad as some people thought, Carlos Lee’s contract with the Astros has been at least as bad as everyone thinks. Lee was a pretty athletic big guy when he started out with the White Sox, making this list three times and having double-digit steals in seven different seasons. Lee’s contract with Houston finally runs out after this season (during which he is slated to make $18.5 million). Lee hit decently in 2011, so it will be interesting to see if he hits enough this season to catch on with a team as a cheap first baseman or DH in 2013. You know, just in case he needs the money.
Adam Dunn (listed at 287), 19 steals in 2002
Can you imagine being the second baseman or shortstop receiving a throw with Adam Dunn sliding toward you? He is easily the biggest guy on this list. It is hard to imagine Dunn running this much, but he was quite the amateur athlete, having been a high school quarterback. He actually was a redshirt football player at the University Texas (playing in the minors for the Reds during the summer), and only left Texas when the team asked him to move to tight end.
I do not remember how this happened in 2002. Did he catch teams by surprise? In the minors, Dunn stole more than 20 bases in both 1999 and 2000, but, well, I guess he filled out. Dunn went unappreciated by the mainstream media for a long time due to his strikeouts. When people began to get over that, the sabemetric crowd began to sour on him for his fielding. For most of his career he was miscast as a fielder, and when a team finally smartened up and put him at DH, his bat fell apart completely — although given that he hit well right up until he was 31, Dunn is not exactly a poster child for an early decline due to “old player skills.”
Maybe Dunn will get a dead cat bounce in 2012, perhaps he is finished. He had some great years with the bat, though, and at one time, he stole some bases.
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Jeff Bagwell comes to mind. He was listed at 215 but that cant be true.
I was going to say the same thing about Bo Jackson who is listed at 220 and stole 53 ith only 15 CS in ’88 and ’89.
I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that Bonds wasn’t close to 240 in the early-to-mid 90s. I believe 1999 or 2000 was the year of the noticeable morphing into a comic-book figure, and he didn’t really steal much after that.
Quick Google search comes across an article on ESPN Page 2 citing game of shadows:
“In 1997, a team media guide listed Bonds at 206 pounds. By spring training of 1999, he weighed 225.”
Bref has Barry Bonds listed at 185(!).
When Bonds was stealing bases he was a lot closer to 185 than 240.
So you like watching fat asses run the bases. You need some mental health treatment. That”s one sick fetish you weirdo. Yeah yeah, hit the dislike button alll you want.
I’m just makin fun of you Matt but the following statement does cause some concern.
“However, subjectively, I would much rather watch Pablo Sandoval, and I would be lying if I said that his “body type” had nothing to do with it.”
Matty, your “exp;oratoin of” fat dudes may cause Dave Cameron to publicly delcare that, “Its amazing Matt is married”.
Plus, you should league adjust your standard like WAR does. Tony Gwynn’s 37 SBs won him the 1986 LABBSBL (League Adjusted Big Boned SB Leader), Brought to You By Swanson TV Dinners.
Why would you mention Gwynn’s 36 steals in 86 but not mention his 57 steals in 87?
…..Those guys are big, not fat, troll.
Kun Fu Panda disagrees
Pablo has lost a bunch of weight since his rookie year. He is more muscle than fat now.
Typo in the paragraph under the Orr picture. “He led the American Association in Triples in1885 and 1885″.
Well…. He did lead the American Association in triples and triples in the years listed.
triples, as well
You should have gone by BMI, I think. Derrick Lee is pretty tall and his physique is that of a basketball player while Sandoval is that of a “heavy set” player.
Bobby Abreu is pretty good at stealing bases considering his spare tire.
BMI isn’t an especially accurate measure of “big-boned,” either. At 6’5″, 245, Derrek Lee’s BMI is 29.0, solidly in the overweight range. 30.0 is the threshold of obesity.
Then again, is there a forthcoming piece on all-time SB leaders among players who were technically obese?
the BMI names are messed up–most of the people who win gold medals in strength related sports will be obese despite having almost no fat on them.
But the concept of weight for height makes more sense that just height. If you look at a 220 lbs 6′ 6″ guy you would probably call them skinny.
BMI is accurate for baseball players. A far lower proportion of baseball players are cut than basketball players and other athletes. When you see double chins on guys and man boobs, they are overweight or obese.
Well, maybe for 1B, DH, pitchers and catchers. But not for middle infield and center field (3B and the corners are marginal in the outfield).
BMI is obsolete for athletes. If you have any semblence of muscle-mass, they consider you “over weight”. Vernon Davis with 4% body-fat is “obese”. lol
Using BMI to describe a person’s physique is like solely using batting average to determine a shortstop’s ability to play baseball. If you can’t use hydrostatic weighing as a technique to get a person’s body fat percentage then use a bioelectric impedance monitor.
You might have wanted to use BMI instead of weight.
Kirby Puckett is listed at BR at 178, but at 5′ 8″, I don’t think anyone would have called him slim. He had moderate speed, with 20 SB in his third season when he also had 31 home runs.
I’d never previously bothered to check for famous baseball relations (Bobby Orr of hockey fame is a 5th cousin or so) but given the baseball card looks just like me (minus the tache) I’ll have to check this one.
can you skate? The Bruins are down a couple Right wingers right now and it’s really hurtin them.
Prince Fielder has two inside the park home runs with a BRef weight of 275. Anybody have more inside the parks at that weight?
Corner shots of the bumper in CF.
One was in the Metrodome. Lew Ford misplayed/lost the ball IIRC.
I got one in 1986. In 1981-1985 and 1987-1993 I got none.
I also led the league in Ks in 1986, with 166.
Excuse me Mr. Balboni but ur inside the park job and 166 K’s were in 1985. Ironically enough this was also the year of your lone career stolen base. Ah now we are talkin poetry in motion (The Great Stache Dash Of 85). We shall have to omit you from this list because B-R lists you at a slim, trim, muscular 6’3, 225 pounds. Oh how generous of Mr. Foreman to protect and distort your legacy.
Dunn ran a fair bit when he was young. At 19 he stole 21 bags in 372. The following year he stole 24, with just 5 CS. He’s not a slow guy (or he wasn’t), he just takes a while to get up to full speed.
Nellie Cruz?
How many of Galarragas steals were at home in 1986. We know baseballs carry better in the high altitude of Coors Field. Since gravity is different is it safe to say human beings are less grounded their as well. I guess they called him Big Cat for a reason. Cats are fast you know and big Cats like tigers can really fly!
Bad theory I checked it, While 32 of 47 dingbats occured in the high altitude of Coors Field, Big Cat was 9 for 13 in base stealing situations both home and away. Just cause you can does not mean you should though as Big Cat’s 69 percent success rate stealing bases was unacceptable in that hitting climate.
You’re an idiot.
Benjie Molina hit for the cycle in his last year, age 35, weight 275-285??
Now that’s amazing!!
I think that Adam Dunn had been listed around 240 or 250 at that time.
Canesco’s twitter feed always depresses me whenever I read it
What about Travis Snider? He was stealing a LOT last year, that was rather odd.
Snider is a great athlete. Ballyhooed high school running back.
I once saw Dmitri Young steal a base. It was wonderful.
Did the Park shake? Was their any cracks in the concrete or structural damages to the stadium.
Bengie is so fat that fans saw his fat jiggle around when running the bases. This was NOT in slow motion but normal speed! :(
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/run-slowly-and-carry-a-big-bat/
The most disturbing thing about the bunt play was pointed out to me later by a friend who asked if I’d seen Molina’s body shaking during the slow-motion replay of his run to third. I laughed and said that I had; whereupon he pointed out that that replay was not in slow-motion.
rumor has it Benjie sat out the 2011 season to give birth.
Johnny Bench was a good sneak thief, 10 for 10 one year, including a double-steal with Tony Perez.
Mo Vaugn went 11 for 15 in sb attempts in his MVP year of 1995. He also legged out 3 triples that year. Baseball Reference has him at 225. I think B-R uses the weight of players when they wre drafted or something. He weighed more than that by the time he was any good.
Not that he is considered a “base stealer” but it’s always awesome to see Brian McCann take off and try to steal second. Just watching that big frame chug slow motion toward second is worth the price of admission.
Nelson Cruz stole 20 bases in 2009 with a listed weight of 240.
if eligible, vladimir guerrero would immediately jump to the top of the list weighing in at 235lbs and posting totals of 37 and 40 steals in 2001 and 2002.
Dave Parker stole 20 bases in both ’78 and ’79 and is listed at 230. He also had two more seasons of 17+ SB.
Today was a slow news day I guess.
This was about as interesting as the question of how many hot dogs you can force feed a dwarf.
what about a dwarf scarfing hot dogs isn’t interesting?
I force fed a dwarf my hot dog last night. It was as K. Millar would say “SNEAKY HOT.” I’m not the same “SIZE” as some of the Fatties above yet nonetheless that dwarf burried my hot dog.
What about Tony Gwynn? His page has him listed as 199 lbs, but I find that hard to believe. At least later in his career.
Baseball reference goes by debut weight.
Back in either ’90 or ’91 I saw Mo Vaughn and Carlos Quintana execute what may be the slowest, heaviest, and most unlikely successful double steal in MLB history. Those two combined probably tipped the scales well in excess of 500 lbs.
I actually remember that. It was 1991 I believe. Back in the Ed Romero days.Those were some bleak days, between the 90 and 95 Sox.
Way too many typos in this article. Under the Orr photograph, Galarraga misspellings, the entire 4th paragraph, etc.