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	<title>Comments on: Captain Clutch?</title>
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	<description>Daily baseball statistical analysis and commentary</description>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/captain-clutch/#comment-105209</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 06:06:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=10423#comment-105209</guid>
		<description>bizzzzzz........UMP!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bizzzzzz&#8230;&#8230;..UMP!</p>
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		<title>By: The Typical Idiot Fan</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/captain-clutch/#comment-103035</link>
		<dc:creator>The Typical Idiot Fan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 01:17:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=10423#comment-103035</guid>
		<description>&quot;Again, if anything, Jeter is underrated.&quot;

No.  He isn&#039;t.  There&#039;s no way in hell Jeter can be &quot;underrated&quot;.  I don&#039;t care what kind of strained logic you want to create about how many people dog him.  The dogs barking can&#039;t possibly overwhelm the roaring tidal wave that is blind, unadulterated Jeter love.

It&#039;s pure scale.  There&#039;s 10 million people in the New York area alone to drown out whatever internet nerds there are jacking Jeter&#039;s junk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Again, if anything, Jeter is underrated.&#8221;</p>
<p>No.  He isn&#8217;t.  There&#8217;s no way in hell Jeter can be &#8220;underrated&#8221;.  I don&#8217;t care what kind of strained logic you want to create about how many people dog him.  The dogs barking can&#8217;t possibly overwhelm the roaring tidal wave that is blind, unadulterated Jeter love.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s pure scale.  There&#8217;s 10 million people in the New York area alone to drown out whatever internet nerds there are jacking Jeter&#8217;s junk.</p>
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		<title>By: Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/captain-clutch/#comment-103025</link>
		<dc:creator>Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 00:33:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=10423#comment-103025</guid>
		<description>Consistent as in what?  Compared to their overall numbers, Jeter might be a little more consistent, but A-Rod is enough better a hitter that that&#039;s not going to do any good because A-Rod&#039;s cold stretches are better than Jeter&#039;s.  So Jeter might perform within so many standard deviations of his overall numbers a little more often than A-Rod, but x standard deviations below Jeter&#039;s average production is worse than x standard deviations below A-Rod&#039;s average production.  If you pick a certain threshold (say a .300 wOBA, or a .330 wOBA, or whatever), and you want to know who will be more likely to hit below that threshold over a given stretch, it&#039;s going to be Jeter.

Say you divide each of their careers into 30 PA stretches.  Through 2008, both had 299 such stretches.  A-Rod had a wOBA under .300 in 42 of them; Jeter in 67.  A-Rod was under .330 in 66; Jeter in 103.   Say you just want to look at how often they&#039;re really bad: A-Rod had 16 stretches below .250; Jeter 33.  Under .275, 30 to 45.  Whether A-Rod is more streaky than Jeter or not, it doesn&#039;t make him more likely to give you bad production over any stretch than Jeter, so unless it&#039;s also showing up as better clutch performance somehow in the leverage sensitive numbers, I don&#039;t see the advantage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Consistent as in what?  Compared to their overall numbers, Jeter might be a little more consistent, but A-Rod is enough better a hitter that that&#8217;s not going to do any good because A-Rod&#8217;s cold stretches are better than Jeter&#8217;s.  So Jeter might perform within so many standard deviations of his overall numbers a little more often than A-Rod, but x standard deviations below Jeter&#8217;s average production is worse than x standard deviations below A-Rod&#8217;s average production.  If you pick a certain threshold (say a .300 wOBA, or a .330 wOBA, or whatever), and you want to know who will be more likely to hit below that threshold over a given stretch, it&#8217;s going to be Jeter.</p>
<p>Say you divide each of their careers into 30 PA stretches.  Through 2008, both had 299 such stretches.  A-Rod had a wOBA under .300 in 42 of them; Jeter in 67.  A-Rod was under .330 in 66; Jeter in 103.   Say you just want to look at how often they&#8217;re really bad: A-Rod had 16 stretches below .250; Jeter 33.  Under .275, 30 to 45.  Whether A-Rod is more streaky than Jeter or not, it doesn&#8217;t make him more likely to give you bad production over any stretch than Jeter, so unless it&#8217;s also showing up as better clutch performance somehow in the leverage sensitive numbers, I don&#8217;t see the advantage.</p>
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		<title>By: Choo</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/captain-clutch/#comment-103022</link>
		<dc:creator>Choo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 00:02:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=10423#comment-103022</guid>
		<description>The point of Clutch is to see if a player elevates HIS game during critical situations.  It is a comparison to himself, not to all other players in the league.

By your definition, a good player who performs worse in clutch situations could still be considered a clutch player and a bad player who performs better in clutch situations could still be a considered a choke artist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The point of Clutch is to see if a player elevates HIS game during critical situations.  It is a comparison to himself, not to all other players in the league.</p>
<p>By your definition, a good player who performs worse in clutch situations could still be considered a clutch player and a bad player who performs better in clutch situations could still be a considered a choke artist.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Boyce</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/captain-clutch/#comment-103013</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Boyce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 23:19:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=10423#comment-103013</guid>
		<description>The more the merrier.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The more the merrier.</p>
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		<title>By: TLB</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/captain-clutch/#comment-102996</link>
		<dc:creator>TLB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 21:40:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=10423#comment-102996</guid>
		<description>Oh, and the other thing I neglected to mention about Jeter v. A-Rod in terms of popularity that imo plays a big role -- fans overvaluing the importance of strikeouts.

Jeter&#039;s a guy that better fits the baseball announcer b.s. that &#039;ya gotta put the ball in play!&#039;/&#039;that pitch is too close to take!&#039;, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and the other thing I neglected to mention about Jeter v. A-Rod in terms of popularity that imo plays a big role &#8212; fans overvaluing the importance of strikeouts.</p>
<p>Jeter&#8217;s a guy that better fits the baseball announcer b.s. that &#8216;ya gotta put the ball in play!&#8217;/'that pitch is too close to take!&#8217;, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: TLB</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/captain-clutch/#comment-102994</link>
		<dc:creator>TLB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 21:37:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=10423#comment-102994</guid>
		<description>Every baseball player goes on big hot &amp; cold streaks, even the mighty Derek Jeter.

I think you&#039;re right on, though, that the &#039;personality&#039; stuff is why he&#039;s more popular than A-Rod.  And I also agree that Jeter is well above-average in terms of baseball intelligence on the field.


&quot;The guy is an above average player every single year with unbelievable consistency.&quot;

The funny thing to me about this, though (&amp; not intended as a shot at you, Matt), is that A-Rod is an elite player every single year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Every baseball player goes on big hot &amp; cold streaks, even the mighty Derek Jeter.</p>
<p>I think you&#8217;re right on, though, that the &#8216;personality&#8217; stuff is why he&#8217;s more popular than A-Rod.  And I also agree that Jeter is well above-average in terms of baseball intelligence on the field.</p>
<p>&#8220;The guy is an above average player every single year with unbelievable consistency.&#8221;</p>
<p>The funny thing to me about this, though (&amp; not intended as a shot at you, Matt), is that A-Rod is an elite player every single year.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/captain-clutch/#comment-102979</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 19:53:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=10423#comment-102979</guid>
		<description>I have a problem with the definition of Clutch, and I think the true definition of Clutch is this:

Clutch – How good a player does in high leverage situations.


Of course a good player is expected to do better than an average player in any situation, but why would you penalize a good player in high leverage situations in this &quot;statistic&quot;? A good player&#039;s average performance could very well be more &quot;clutch&quot; than a poor player&#039;s good performance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a problem with the definition of Clutch, and I think the true definition of Clutch is this:</p>
<p>Clutch – How good a player does in high leverage situations.</p>
<p>Of course a good player is expected to do better than an average player in any situation, but why would you penalize a good player in high leverage situations in this &#8220;statistic&#8221;? A good player&#8217;s average performance could very well be more &#8220;clutch&#8221; than a poor player&#8217;s good performance.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/captain-clutch/#comment-102921</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 16:32:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=10423#comment-102921</guid>
		<description>Great post Seideberg, I agree 100% with your anaylsis.

As a completely biased and Jeter-obsessed Yankee fanatic (full disclosure), I think there are several reasons that people rate him higher than statistics might indicate:

1) Most significantly of all, I think the cause of this is his &quot;homegrown&quot; history and his ability to deal with the media.  Some players are constantly getting into trouble for their behavior and Jeter never does. Some guys say things to the media that are taken poorly, but Jeter handles the New York media very well.  Having come up with the organization and won some rings here, he has credibility and positive sentiment with the fans.  To me these ARE part of the game nowadays.  Not everything of importance takes place on the field and Jeter&#039;s popularity is good for the team.

2) Jeter is a smart player.  People have often assaulted his defense, specifically his range, but what people who watch the Yankees day in and day out see (and what doesn&#039;t always show up in stats) is that Jeter plays the game with intelligence.  His range may not be what it once was but he makes good decisions on the field, which is appealing to fans.  As painful as it may be to see a bleeder slip under his glove, it&#039;s much worse to watch a player throw the ball away trying to make an impossible double play or fail to make an out by throwing to the the wrong base.  As someone who believes in psychology as well as stats, I think this actually helps win games.  I believe that pitchers are often more rattled by stupidity behind them, as opposed to bleeders and bloops.

3) Now some stats: Jeter has averaged 152 games per year since 1996, with a .318 batting average.  During that time he has never had a year where he hit below .291 or had an on-base percentage below .352.  Only in 2003, when he missed time because of an injury did he have fewer than 179 hits.  The guy is an above average player every single year with unbelievable consistency.  His numbers in the playoffs are similar.  He plays VERY consistently and that is really what I think being &quot;clutch&quot; is all about: it&#039;s not necessarily about raising your level of play in &quot;high leverage&quot; situations, it&#039;s about playing consistently regardless of situation.  The problem people have with A-Rod is that he has huge streaks of hot and coolness.

Ultimately, the fans who &quot;overrate&quot; Jeter see a guy who plays every single day, always plays &quot;the right way&quot; (i.e. with intelligence in the field, on the base paths, at the plate, in the dugout, or at the microphone), and plays a very consistant game, where he reliably hits against all kinds of teams and pitchers in many situations.

Finally, I don&#039;t know how you can overrate a guy who has a 121 OPS+ in 15 seasons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post Seideberg, I agree 100% with your anaylsis.</p>
<p>As a completely biased and Jeter-obsessed Yankee fanatic (full disclosure), I think there are several reasons that people rate him higher than statistics might indicate:</p>
<p>1) Most significantly of all, I think the cause of this is his &#8220;homegrown&#8221; history and his ability to deal with the media.  Some players are constantly getting into trouble for their behavior and Jeter never does. Some guys say things to the media that are taken poorly, but Jeter handles the New York media very well.  Having come up with the organization and won some rings here, he has credibility and positive sentiment with the fans.  To me these ARE part of the game nowadays.  Not everything of importance takes place on the field and Jeter&#8217;s popularity is good for the team.</p>
<p>2) Jeter is a smart player.  People have often assaulted his defense, specifically his range, but what people who watch the Yankees day in and day out see (and what doesn&#8217;t always show up in stats) is that Jeter plays the game with intelligence.  His range may not be what it once was but he makes good decisions on the field, which is appealing to fans.  As painful as it may be to see a bleeder slip under his glove, it&#8217;s much worse to watch a player throw the ball away trying to make an impossible double play or fail to make an out by throwing to the the wrong base.  As someone who believes in psychology as well as stats, I think this actually helps win games.  I believe that pitchers are often more rattled by stupidity behind them, as opposed to bleeders and bloops.</p>
<p>3) Now some stats: Jeter has averaged 152 games per year since 1996, with a .318 batting average.  During that time he has never had a year where he hit below .291 or had an on-base percentage below .352.  Only in 2003, when he missed time because of an injury did he have fewer than 179 hits.  The guy is an above average player every single year with unbelievable consistency.  His numbers in the playoffs are similar.  He plays VERY consistently and that is really what I think being &#8220;clutch&#8221; is all about: it&#8217;s not necessarily about raising your level of play in &#8220;high leverage&#8221; situations, it&#8217;s about playing consistently regardless of situation.  The problem people have with A-Rod is that he has huge streaks of hot and coolness.</p>
<p>Ultimately, the fans who &#8220;overrate&#8221; Jeter see a guy who plays every single day, always plays &#8220;the right way&#8221; (i.e. with intelligence in the field, on the base paths, at the plate, in the dugout, or at the microphone), and plays a very consistant game, where he reliably hits against all kinds of teams and pitchers in many situations.</p>
<p>Finally, I don&#8217;t know how you can overrate a guy who has a 121 OPS+ in 15 seasons.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/captain-clutch/#comment-102890</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 12:53:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=10423#comment-102890</guid>
		<description>This was my first question upon reading the post as well.  Can anybody respond to this?  I can&#039;t believe I had to wade through 100+ comments on the idiotic Jeter/ARod debate to try to find an answer.

I am very much against most of the ARod hate, and I like the conclusions in this post, but the methodology seems incorrect, as pointed out by Kincaid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This was my first question upon reading the post as well.  Can anybody respond to this?  I can&#8217;t believe I had to wade through 100+ comments on the idiotic Jeter/ARod debate to try to find an answer.</p>
<p>I am very much against most of the ARod hate, and I like the conclusions in this post, but the methodology seems incorrect, as pointed out by Kincaid.</p>
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