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	<title>Comments on: Freddy Sanchez for&#8230; Who?! Seriously?</title>
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	<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/freddy-sanchez-for-who-seriously/</link>
	<description>Daily baseball statistical analysis and commentary</description>
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		<title>By: Joe R</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/freddy-sanchez-for-who-seriously/#comment-94685</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 17:55:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=7242#comment-94685</guid>
		<description>Adam Dunn&#039;s not even 30 yet and is still productive, Austin Kearns is much more likely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adam Dunn&#8217;s not even 30 yet and is still productive, Austin Kearns is much more likely.</p>
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		<title>By: Wally</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/freddy-sanchez-for-who-seriously/#comment-89093</link>
		<dc:creator>Wally</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 18:10:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=7242#comment-89093</guid>
		<description>You&#039;ll have to excuse the mistake.  When you say he&#039;s worth 1 WAR this season and 2-3 next, that only puts the top end of your range at +6M.  Not exactly an honest repressentation is it?  Lets clear this up a little:

&quot;And I won’t be surprised if he’s a 5 WAR guy (or 3 for that matter), making him possibly almost a +10 million guy, worth more than Alderson is valued at this moment.&quot;

So, best case scenerio he&#039;s worth about 1M more than Alderson.  Worst case he&#039;s worth about 10M less (3 WAR puts him at about -1M relative to his contract: 9- (-1)=10).  The over under has Sanchez at about 3-4M less than Alderson.  So, that&#039;s a good deal?

Like, I&#039;ve said, this isn&#039;t a horrible deal from the Giants perspective, but sure isn&#039;t a good deal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;ll have to excuse the mistake.  When you say he&#8217;s worth 1 WAR this season and 2-3 next, that only puts the top end of your range at +6M.  Not exactly an honest repressentation is it?  Lets clear this up a little:</p>
<p>&#8220;And I won’t be surprised if he’s a 5 WAR guy (or 3 for that matter), making him possibly almost a +10 million guy, worth more than Alderson is valued at this moment.&#8221;</p>
<p>So, best case scenerio he&#8217;s worth about 1M more than Alderson.  Worst case he&#8217;s worth about 10M less (3 WAR puts him at about -1M relative to his contract: 9- (-1)=10).  The over under has Sanchez at about 3-4M less than Alderson.  So, that&#8217;s a good deal?</p>
<p>Like, I&#8217;ve said, this isn&#8217;t a horrible deal from the Giants perspective, but sure isn&#8217;t a good deal.</p>
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		<title>By: DC</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/freddy-sanchez-for-who-seriously/#comment-89040</link>
		<dc:creator>DC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 06:39:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=7242#comment-89040</guid>
		<description>Um, what?

&quot;But the thing is he’s getting payed more than he would be worth in this situation. That means he (meaning his production and his contract) isn’t actually WORTH 6 million to Giants, its actually costing the Giants about 4 million. This is something people continually fail to understand. You have to take his on-field value and contract into consideration.&quot;

He&#039;s getting paid 11 million, and he&#039;ll likely be at least a 4 WAR layer, making him a net +5/6 mil guy.

People may fail to understand this, but I do not. And I won&#039;t be surprised if he&#039;s a 5 WAR guy (or 3 for that matter), making him possibly almost a +10 million guy, worth more than Alderson is valued at this moment.

And of course if he&#039;s a Type A, then the Giants easily win this deal at this moment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Um, what?</p>
<p>&#8220;But the thing is he’s getting payed more than he would be worth in this situation. That means he (meaning his production and his contract) isn’t actually WORTH 6 million to Giants, its actually costing the Giants about 4 million. This is something people continually fail to understand. You have to take his on-field value and contract into consideration.&#8221;</p>
<p>He&#8217;s getting paid 11 million, and he&#8217;ll likely be at least a 4 WAR layer, making him a net +5/6 mil guy.</p>
<p>People may fail to understand this, but I do not. And I won&#8217;t be surprised if he&#8217;s a 5 WAR guy (or 3 for that matter), making him possibly almost a +10 million guy, worth more than Alderson is valued at this moment.</p>
<p>And of course if he&#8217;s a Type A, then the Giants easily win this deal at this moment.</p>
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		<title>By: Wally</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/freddy-sanchez-for-who-seriously/#comment-88953</link>
		<dc:creator>Wally</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 22:53:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=7242#comment-88953</guid>
		<description>Well, a lot of scouts say a lot of things.  And that&#039;s a pretty fast decline for guy that&#039;s 20 in AA.  I&#039;d rather take a guy like Keith Law&#039;s word on bottom end of Top 100 than just some unnamed scout that you read about somewhere.  

&quot;Anyways, let’s say Sanchez does decline. Worst case we’re looking at 1 WAR in 2009, and probably 2-3 WAR in 2010. So he’ll be worth a net value of about 6 million. If he’s a Type B, about 8.5 million, and 11 million if he’s a Type A.&quot;

But the thing is he&#039;s getting payed more than he would be worth in this situation.  That means he (meaning his production and his contract) isn&#039;t actually WORTH 6 million to Giants, its actually costing the Giants about 4 million.  This is something people continually fail to understand.  You have to take his on-field value and contract into consideration.  

My feeling is his production probably going to be a rough draw to his pay (as fangraphs would calculate it).  However, the market underpays second basemen.  So, the Giants could have gone out and got something similar to Sanchez (or even Sanchez himself if the Pirates don&#039;t pick up the option), for less if they just waited 2 months.  Then it seems to me Alderson&#039;s value is correctly interpreted to be in the Top 75-100 range and thus worth $9M.  Thus, this was a poor deal for the Giants, it may not be as horrible as some are making it out to be, but I do think it was still a bad deal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, a lot of scouts say a lot of things.  And that&#8217;s a pretty fast decline for guy that&#8217;s 20 in AA.  I&#8217;d rather take a guy like Keith Law&#8217;s word on bottom end of Top 100 than just some unnamed scout that you read about somewhere.  </p>
<p>&#8220;Anyways, let’s say Sanchez does decline. Worst case we’re looking at 1 WAR in 2009, and probably 2-3 WAR in 2010. So he’ll be worth a net value of about 6 million. If he’s a Type B, about 8.5 million, and 11 million if he’s a Type A.&#8221;</p>
<p>But the thing is he&#8217;s getting payed more than he would be worth in this situation.  That means he (meaning his production and his contract) isn&#8217;t actually WORTH 6 million to Giants, its actually costing the Giants about 4 million.  This is something people continually fail to understand.  You have to take his on-field value and contract into consideration.  </p>
<p>My feeling is his production probably going to be a rough draw to his pay (as fangraphs would calculate it).  However, the market underpays second basemen.  So, the Giants could have gone out and got something similar to Sanchez (or even Sanchez himself if the Pirates don&#8217;t pick up the option), for less if they just waited 2 months.  Then it seems to me Alderson&#8217;s value is correctly interpreted to be in the Top 75-100 range and thus worth $9M.  Thus, this was a poor deal for the Giants, it may not be as horrible as some are making it out to be, but I do think it was still a bad deal.</p>
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		<title>By: DC</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/freddy-sanchez-for-who-seriously/#comment-88948</link>
		<dc:creator>DC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 22:34:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=7242#comment-88948</guid>
		<description>Scouts have been saying he&#039;s not a #5 SP at best right now, so that&#039;s not something exactly worth being a top 100 prospect. 

Anyways, let&#039;s say Sanchez does decline. Worst case we&#039;re looking at 1 WAR in 2009, and probably 2-3 WAR in 2010. So he&#039;ll be worth a net value of about 6 million. If he&#039;s a Type B, about 8.5 million, and 11 million if he&#039;s a Type A.

This is a very even trade, people are completely overreacting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scouts have been saying he&#8217;s not a #5 SP at best right now, so that&#8217;s not something exactly worth being a top 100 prospect. </p>
<p>Anyways, let&#8217;s say Sanchez does decline. Worst case we&#8217;re looking at 1 WAR in 2009, and probably 2-3 WAR in 2010. So he&#8217;ll be worth a net value of about 6 million. If he&#8217;s a Type B, about 8.5 million, and 11 million if he&#8217;s a Type A.</p>
<p>This is a very even trade, people are completely overreacting.</p>
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		<title>By: Wally</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/freddy-sanchez-for-who-seriously/#comment-88933</link>
		<dc:creator>Wally</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 21:23:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=7242#comment-88933</guid>
		<description>Sure, he might be having his best season now, but he&#039;d have to pick up the pace a little to make that happen, and odds are he actually slows down.  His projected ROS wOBA is lower than his season wOBA, and his UZR/150 is above his career average.  Its more likely he falls off the rest of the way than anything else.  Then next year that should just get even worse as he ages away from his peak.  

Then how do we keep dropping Alderson&#039;s value?  First it was he&#039;s Top 50, then he&#039;s bottom 100, now you&#039;re saying he&#039;s not even Top 100?  Why is that?  Sure his value MIGHT be less than 9 million but it MIGHT also be more than that.  The point is the 9 million is the most likely scenario, if we take some of the experts word for his placement.  That being he was a Top 50 guy but his stock has fallen to the 75-100 range.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure, he might be having his best season now, but he&#8217;d have to pick up the pace a little to make that happen, and odds are he actually slows down.  His projected ROS wOBA is lower than his season wOBA, and his UZR/150 is above his career average.  Its more likely he falls off the rest of the way than anything else.  Then next year that should just get even worse as he ages away from his peak.  </p>
<p>Then how do we keep dropping Alderson&#8217;s value?  First it was he&#8217;s Top 50, then he&#8217;s bottom 100, now you&#8217;re saying he&#8217;s not even Top 100?  Why is that?  Sure his value MIGHT be less than 9 million but it MIGHT also be more than that.  The point is the 9 million is the most likely scenario, if we take some of the experts word for his placement.  That being he was a Top 50 guy but his stock has fallen to the 75-100 range.</p>
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		<title>By: DC</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/freddy-sanchez-for-who-seriously/#comment-88917</link>
		<dc:creator>DC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 20:25:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=7242#comment-88917</guid>
		<description>Sure, yet he&#039;s on pace for another 4 WAR season. His .4 WAR year last year was the result of injury, and that&#039;s definitely a reason for concern. But he might he having his best season right now, so I don&#039;t see a big issue there. 

And also, Alderson&#039;s stock has fallen way off and it seems like his potential is a #5 SP at this point, not really top 100 prospect material. So his value might even be less than 9 million.

And if he&#039;s Type A or even Type B and the Giants get compensation, it&#039;s a win.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure, yet he&#8217;s on pace for another 4 WAR season. His .4 WAR year last year was the result of injury, and that&#8217;s definitely a reason for concern. But he might he having his best season right now, so I don&#8217;t see a big issue there. </p>
<p>And also, Alderson&#8217;s stock has fallen way off and it seems like his potential is a #5 SP at this point, not really top 100 prospect material. So his value might even be less than 9 million.</p>
<p>And if he&#8217;s Type A or even Type B and the Giants get compensation, it&#8217;s a win.</p>
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		<title>By: Wally</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/freddy-sanchez-for-who-seriously/#comment-88851</link>
		<dc:creator>Wally</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:08:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=7242#comment-88851</guid>
		<description>The other thing we&#039;re missing is that 2nd basemen aren&#039;t payed their fair share, and you can often get 2nd basemen roughly as good as Sanchez for far less than their WAR would say they are worth.  For example O. Hundson signed for just $3M base salary and is typically in the 2-3 WAR range.  Brain Roberts, who&#039;s better than Sanchez typically (usually 4+ WAR) and a FA at the end of the year (could have just payed for this guy if you waited two month and kept Alderson), makes $8 million.  Ellis, who&#039;s about as good as Sanchez, makes $5M.  So while Sanchez&#039;s WAR makes him out to be roughly worth his contract, when compared to the market, he&#039;s actually slightly over-payed.  And for going on 32, that could look a lot worse in 2010.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The other thing we&#8217;re missing is that 2nd basemen aren&#8217;t payed their fair share, and you can often get 2nd basemen roughly as good as Sanchez for far less than their WAR would say they are worth.  For example O. Hundson signed for just $3M base salary and is typically in the 2-3 WAR range.  Brain Roberts, who&#8217;s better than Sanchez typically (usually 4+ WAR) and a FA at the end of the year (could have just payed for this guy if you waited two month and kept Alderson), makes $8 million.  Ellis, who&#8217;s about as good as Sanchez, makes $5M.  So while Sanchez&#8217;s WAR makes him out to be roughly worth his contract, when compared to the market, he&#8217;s actually slightly over-payed.  And for going on 32, that could look a lot worse in 2010.</p>
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		<title>By: Wally</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/freddy-sanchez-for-who-seriously/#comment-88844</link>
		<dc:creator>Wally</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:56:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=7242#comment-88844</guid>
		<description>Boy, some people are just stupid.  I wasn&#039;t using it &quot;as an example on par with someone trading a prospect for a proven player.&quot; I was using that example to illistrate the point that the end result does not justify the trade.  God you&#039;re dumb.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Boy, some people are just stupid.  I wasn&#8217;t using it &#8220;as an example on par with someone trading a prospect for a proven player.&#8221; I was using that example to illistrate the point that the end result does not justify the trade.  God you&#8217;re dumb.</p>
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		<title>By: Wally</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/freddy-sanchez-for-who-seriously/#comment-88843</link>
		<dc:creator>Wally</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:54:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=7242#comment-88843</guid>
		<description>DC, costing 10 million and being worth 9 million are two different things though.  For Sanchez to simple live up to his pay, he needs to produce like he did roughly in 2005 and 2007.  To really be worth an extra 9 million (above his salary) he needs to roughly repeat his best season ever.  Last season he posted just .4 WAR, he&#039;s about to turn 32, and historically 2nd baseman age faster than everyone besides catchers.  So, I think its pretty easy to see Sanchez isn&#039;t likely to be worth 9 million to the Giants.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DC, costing 10 million and being worth 9 million are two different things though.  For Sanchez to simple live up to his pay, he needs to produce like he did roughly in 2005 and 2007.  To really be worth an extra 9 million (above his salary) he needs to roughly repeat his best season ever.  Last season he posted just .4 WAR, he&#8217;s about to turn 32, and historically 2nd baseman age faster than everyone besides catchers.  So, I think its pretty easy to see Sanchez isn&#8217;t likely to be worth 9 million to the Giants.</p>
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