Comments on: Fuentes Debunking Saves Singlehandedly http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/fuentes-debunking-saves-singlehandedly/ Daily baseball statistical analysis and commentary Mon, 13 Feb 2012 01:07:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: scott http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/fuentes-debunking-saves-singlehandedly/#comment-101224 scott Wed, 07 Oct 2009 17:50:04 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=9493#comment-101224 lol wat of all posts to put this comment...a weird brian fuentes one from three weeks ago. lol wat

of all posts to put this comment…a weird brian fuentes one from three weeks ago.

]]> By: Bob http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/fuentes-debunking-saves-singlehandedly/#comment-101214 Bob Wed, 07 Oct 2009 17:18:18 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=9493#comment-101214 Blastoff Network is coming! It will launch to the world on October 26, 2009, and will change the way we use the internet forever! Sign up is "FREE"... Launch your Blastoff Network and get paid! When you invite your friends to join the Blastoff Network, you will get paid every time they make a purchase within the Blastoff Network. Just think about getting paid every time your friends buy a song on iTunes, books at Barnes & Noble or a new TV at Target. And as your friends begin to invite their friends, you will see your network and your income begin to virally grow. So spread the word and get ready to Blastoff! Don't miss this opportunity to Blastoff and make money with the rest of us on October 26, 2009! Be ready to Blastoff! http://www.blastcashback.com Blastoff Network is coming! It will launch to the world on October 26, 2009, and will change the way we use the internet forever!

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]]> By: Jeremiah http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/fuentes-debunking-saves-singlehandedly/#comment-98593 Jeremiah Tue, 22 Sep 2009 15:44:03 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=9493#comment-98593 But that is exactly why Fuentes is a good closer. He's not as good of a relief pitcher as Jepsen, but he's usually going to be starting the ninth inning fresh with no one on base. That allows you to use Jepsen in the eighth with runners on first and third and no outs. This is the argument that has been made against the typical closer role for several years. Why use your best pitcher in a situation where an average pitcher would do? The Angels are not using their best pitcher as closer, so I don't see why they should change. But that is exactly why Fuentes is a good closer. He’s not as good of a relief pitcher as Jepsen, but he’s usually going to be starting the ninth inning fresh with no one on base. That allows you to use Jepsen in the eighth with runners on first and third and no outs.

This is the argument that has been made against the typical closer role for several years. Why use your best pitcher in a situation where an average pitcher would do? The Angels are not using their best pitcher as closer, so I don’t see why they should change.

]]> By: Kevin S. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/fuentes-debunking-saves-singlehandedly/#comment-98314 Kevin S. Mon, 21 Sep 2009 17:31:28 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=9493#comment-98314 Why? The evidence backs it up. Seriously, look at interleague play the past four years. The AL wins at the rate of a 103-win team. Even the shitty AL teams clean up. Why? The evidence backs it up. Seriously, look at interleague play the past four years. The AL wins at the rate of a 103-win team. Even the shitty AL teams clean up.

]]> By: Joe R http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/fuentes-debunking-saves-singlehandedly/#comment-98276 Joe R Mon, 21 Sep 2009 15:08:48 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=9493#comment-98276 And that includes some relatively lights out guys like Rivera, Papelbon, Nathan, and Soria. But of course, you need a "Mental toughness" to be a closer. Or a good K/9 rate. For some reason I'd rather the guy with the K/9 rate than the mentally tough guy with a 1.8 K/BB. And that includes some relatively lights out guys like Rivera, Papelbon, Nathan, and Soria.

But of course, you need a “Mental toughness” to be a closer. Or a good K/9 rate. For some reason I’d rather the guy with the K/9 rate than the mentally tough guy with a 1.8 K/BB.

]]> By: Ivdown http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/fuentes-debunking-saves-singlehandedly/#comment-98250 Ivdown Mon, 21 Sep 2009 11:00:05 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=9493#comment-98250 I hate people like you who act like the NL is some inferior league, like the CFL to the NFL. I hate people like you who act like the NL is some inferior league, like the CFL to the NFL.

]]> By: mikkyld http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/fuentes-debunking-saves-singlehandedly/#comment-98104 mikkyld Sat, 19 Sep 2009 15:30:32 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=9493#comment-98104 Boy do I agree with that assessment - closers are generally overpaid and overrated. The one thing they absolutely need to possess (the ability to ignore both bad and good results and go again the next day) no doubt merits more pay than an ordinary reliever, but that's about it. The truly great ones seem to dominate and seem to deserve whatever they get, but really there are so few of them that the analysis shouldn't wash over other closers. Think Rivera for this category. Boy do I agree with that assessment – closers are generally overpaid and overrated. The one thing they absolutely need to possess (the ability to ignore both bad and good results and go again the next day) no doubt merits more pay than an ordinary reliever, but that’s about it.

The truly great ones seem to dominate and seem to deserve whatever they get, but really there are so few of them that the analysis shouldn’t wash over other closers. Think Rivera for this category.

]]> By: mikkyld http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/fuentes-debunking-saves-singlehandedly/#comment-98102 mikkyld Sat, 19 Sep 2009 15:22:12 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=9493#comment-98102 Tom is correct that he was never a shut down closer. Never as in, he wasn't actually a shutdown closer in the NL who went to the AL so he could fail and demonstrate how superior the AL really is. he was NEVER a shutdown closer, period. Tom is correct that he was never a shut down closer. Never as in, he wasn’t actually a shutdown closer in the NL who went to the AL so he could fail and demonstrate how superior the AL really is.

he was NEVER a shutdown closer, period.

]]> By: Eric Walker http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/fuentes-debunking-saves-singlehandedly/#comment-97999 Eric Walker Sat, 19 Sep 2009 00:31:07 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=9493#comment-97999 I pointed this out--the folly of the "Save"--in print at least 15 years ago. Consider a pitcher with an ERA of 4.25, virtually average; with unearned runs, he'll allow just about 4.5 runs per 9 IP, which happens to be a run every other inning on average. Such a man, brought in to pitch the last inning with a mere 1-run lead must thus necessarily succeed at least 50% of the time. Moreover, he will not in reality give up 1 run every other inning: sometimes he will give up 2 or 3 or even more. That means that his number of scoreless innings will exceed 50%. Add to that the further reality that he will often have a 2-run or even 3-run lead to work with, and we see probable save totals in the range of 65% or so. And what is the ML average for saves? Um, 67%. In short, a mediocre, totally average pitcher can achieve what the typical closer achieves as to "Saves". Duh. I pointed this out–the folly of the “Save”–in print at least 15 years ago. Consider a pitcher with an ERA of 4.25, virtually average; with unearned runs, he’ll allow just about 4.5 runs per 9 IP, which happens to be a run every other inning on average. Such a man, brought in to pitch the last inning with a mere 1-run lead must thus necessarily succeed at least 50% of the time. Moreover, he will not in reality give up 1 run every other inning: sometimes he will give up 2 or 3 or even more. That means that his number of scoreless innings will exceed 50%. Add to that the further reality that he will often have a 2-run or even 3-run lead to work with, and we see probable save totals in the range of 65% or so. And what is the ML average for saves? Um, 67%. In short, a mediocre, totally average pitcher can achieve what the typical closer achieves as to “Saves”. Duh.

]]> By: Joe R http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/fuentes-debunking-saves-singlehandedly/#comment-97927 Joe R Fri, 18 Sep 2009 17:37:18 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=9493#comment-97927 Hey, they never claim to be experts on the stuff. I was just disappointed that they didn't do a single JoeChat. Or announce a full return. Or something. Hey, they never claim to be experts on the stuff.

I was just disappointed that they didn’t do a single JoeChat. Or announce a full return. Or something.

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