Comments on: Garko To San Francisco http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/garko-to-san-francisco/ Daily baseball statistical analysis and commentary Mon, 22 Mar 2010 04:28:38 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Reuben http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/garko-to-san-francisco/#comment-88196 Reuben Wed, 29 Jul 2009 20:58:36 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=7145#comment-88196 What David said is correct. And I'm talking more specifically in analysis than in actual trades. I.e. arguing that someone is worth less due to having depth is a little odd. They're worth less to the team but not on the open market. What David said is correct. And I’m talking more specifically in analysis than in actual trades. I.e. arguing that someone is worth less due to having depth is a little odd. They’re worth less to the team but not on the open market.

]]> By: Reuben http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/garko-to-san-francisco/#comment-88194 Reuben Wed, 29 Jul 2009 20:57:11 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=7145#comment-88194 There are enough teams in the majors to get fair value. There's no leverage in that situation unless there's a monopoly. There are enough teams in the majors to get fair value. There’s no leverage in that situation unless there’s a monopoly.

]]> By: Reuben http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/garko-to-san-francisco/#comment-88193 Reuben Wed, 29 Jul 2009 20:55:25 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=7145#comment-88193 I'm not talking about this specific instance. I’m not talking about this specific instance.

]]> By: by jiminy http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/garko-to-san-francisco/#comment-88183 by jiminy Wed, 29 Jul 2009 19:45:22 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=7145#comment-88183 Wow, you guys sure love a guy when he's gone. Barnes is an 8th round pick with one year in A ball. Suppose he'd gone in the 7th to someone else. Would you be clamoring to trade Garko for him? The chances of a rookie pitcher making the majors at all are pretty slim. Yes, it's nice to stock the minors with large numbers of prospects in hopes one of them will make it now and then. Good young arms have value. But your team's future does not hinge on Barnes. It hinges on whether you can upgrade your offense enough to avoid completely wasting your awesome pitching staff before it gets old. You should do more trades like this to upgrade a few more positions and give Lincecum, Cain et al some offensive support. With that staff, and even average hitters, you could beat anyone in the league in the playoffs. I'm a Twins fan but I'd like nothing more than for you all to beat the Dodgers. Good luck! Wow, you guys sure love a guy when he’s gone. Barnes is an 8th round pick with one year in A ball. Suppose he’d gone in the 7th to someone else. Would you be clamoring to trade Garko for him?

The chances of a rookie pitcher making the majors at all are pretty slim. Yes, it’s nice to stock the minors with large numbers of prospects in hopes one of them will make it now and then. Good young arms have value. But your team’s future does not hinge on Barnes. It hinges on whether you can upgrade your offense enough to avoid completely wasting your awesome pitching staff before it gets old.

You should do more trades like this to upgrade a few more positions and give Lincecum, Cain et al some offensive support. With that staff, and even average hitters, you could beat anyone in the league in the playoffs. I’m a Twins fan but I’d like nothing more than for you all to beat the Dodgers. Good luck!

]]> By: baseballfan http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/garko-to-san-francisco/#comment-88064 baseballfan Wed, 29 Jul 2009 02:23:59 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=7145#comment-88064 Don't you think that you have to view it within the context of this year? You have to figure that if they wanted they could pick up a player of comparable talent in the free agent market for a comparable price. So, after this year it's essentially a wash. Don’t you think that you have to view it within the context of this year? You have to figure that if they wanted they could pick up a player of comparable talent in the free agent market for a comparable price. So, after this year it’s essentially a wash.

]]> By: Texas Ranger http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/garko-to-san-francisco/#comment-88057 Texas Ranger Wed, 29 Jul 2009 01:45:28 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=7145#comment-88057 Well if you only look at it the context of this season it looks bad, but I see it as a move not only for this season but also for the future, Garko is a pretty big upgrade over Ishi, as I think we can all see that he is due for a pretty serious regression offensively and defensively (I see him as a +4 through 10 fielder per 150). I think Garko is a lot better hitter and not a platoon player because he hits righties better than Travis does. His defense has been bad in the past but by no means is a definitive collection because apparently this year he has been fooling the metrics so to speak. Maybe I'm biased because I was never much of a Barnes fan but I like the move for this year and the future. Well if you only look at it the context of this season it looks bad, but I see it as a move not only for this season but also for the future, Garko is a pretty big upgrade over Ishi, as I think we can all see that he is due for a pretty serious regression offensively and defensively (I see him as a +4 through 10 fielder per 150). I think Garko is a lot better hitter and not a platoon player because he hits righties better than Travis does. His defense has been bad in the past but by no means is a definitive collection because apparently this year he has been fooling the metrics so to speak.
Maybe I’m biased because I was never much of a Barnes fan but I like the move for this year and the future.

]]> By: Hawerchuk http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/garko-to-san-francisco/#comment-88024 Hawerchuk Tue, 28 Jul 2009 22:14:44 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=7145#comment-88024 I'd say that's in dispute. He's a league-average hitter, and it's not clear to me that UZR accurately captures his defensive performance in RF. You need to adjust when you have an oddly-shaped field like in San Francisco otherwise you end up crediting a guy for playing deep and catching balls that would have been doubles elsewhere - we don't know what exactly UZR does. I find it suspect that he's so much better as a RF than as a CF. Winn was not worth $50M or whatever he shows up as on Fangraphs. When Winn signed his contract, he projected as a below league-average outfielder, and he was 32. The Giants bid against themselves and overpaid. I’d say that’s in dispute. He’s a league-average hitter, and it’s not clear to me that UZR accurately captures his defensive performance in RF. You need to adjust when you have an oddly-shaped field like in San Francisco otherwise you end up crediting a guy for playing deep and catching balls that would have been doubles elsewhere – we don’t know what exactly UZR does. I find it suspect that he’s so much better as a RF than as a CF. Winn was not worth $50M or whatever he shows up as on Fangraphs.

When Winn signed his contract, he projected as a below league-average outfielder, and he was 32. The Giants bid against themselves and overpaid.

]]> By: baseballfan http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/garko-to-san-francisco/#comment-88022 baseballfan Tue, 28 Jul 2009 22:10:34 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=7145#comment-88022 Well maybe I got a little carried away. I suppose it is defensible. I don't want to re-say what has already been said, but why are you going to give up a good young arm, who has dominated a hitters league, for a league average player who is only going to add a fraction of a win over the course of the season? After this year Garko is going to be compensated somewhere appropriate for his production. So, to me, the question really is what is the chance that Garko is going to be the difference maker this year? What is the chance that that fraction of a win is the difference between making the playoffs. I am not sure how to compute that but I would bet that if you played 150 seasons the Giants make the playoffs maybe one more time with Garko as compared without him. Given those kind of odds, I can't see how to justify giving up a player like Barnes. Well maybe I got a little carried away. I suppose it is defensible.

I don’t want to re-say what has already been said, but why are you going to give up a good young arm, who has dominated a hitters league, for a league average player who is only going to add a fraction of a win over the course of the season?

After this year Garko is going to be compensated somewhere appropriate for his production. So, to me, the question really is what is the chance that Garko is going to be the difference maker this year? What is the chance that that fraction of a win is the difference between making the playoffs. I am not sure how to compute that but I would bet that if you played 150 seasons the Giants make the playoffs maybe one more time with Garko as compared without him. Given those kind of odds, I can’t see how to justify giving up a player like Barnes.

]]> By: B http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/garko-to-san-francisco/#comment-87998 B Tue, 28 Jul 2009 20:56:57 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=7145#comment-87998 Ugh. It's the worst. Bengie has the lowest OBP in the major leagues, and Bochy still insists on batting him cleanup. Torres has been hitting at the top of the lineup the last couple days, despite every stat suggesting he's due for a major regression back to a non-MLB caliber player. I'm glad he's contributed what he has, but come on. I just don't get what Bochy could possibly be thinking when he makes some of these decisions. Ugh. It’s the worst. Bengie has the lowest OBP in the major leagues, and Bochy still insists on batting him cleanup. Torres has been hitting at the top of the lineup the last couple days, despite every stat suggesting he’s due for a major regression back to a non-MLB caliber player. I’m glad he’s contributed what he has, but come on. I just don’t get what Bochy could possibly be thinking when he makes some of these decisions.

]]> By: Bhaakon http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/garko-to-san-francisco/#comment-87992 Bhaakon Tue, 28 Jul 2009 20:26:32 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=7145#comment-87992 Good point, but, as long as Bengie Molina possess legs capable of supporting his bulk, Garko won't bat cleanup. Good point, but, as long as Bengie Molina possess legs capable of supporting his bulk, Garko won’t bat cleanup.

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