Comments on: Get To Know: F-Strike% http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/get-to-know-f-strike/ Daily baseball statistical analysis and commentary Sun, 12 Feb 2012 19:00:05 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Mark http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/get-to-know-f-strike/#comment-74503 Mark Tue, 05 May 2009 01:15:36 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/get-to-know-f-strike/#comment-74503 You got an article like this for every FanGraph statistic? You got an article like this for every FanGraph statistic?

]]> By: Steve http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/get-to-know-f-strike/#comment-52047 Steve Sun, 16 Nov 2008 02:27:54 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/get-to-know-f-strike/#comment-52047 Gotcha. Thanks, David. Once again, thanks for adding the plate discipline stats for pitchers. Gotcha. Thanks, David. Once again, thanks for adding the plate discipline stats for pitchers.

]]> By: David Appelman http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/get-to-know-f-strike/#comment-52014 David Appelman Sat, 15 Nov 2008 22:19:00 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/get-to-know-f-strike/#comment-52014 Steve, you're right that breaking down the plate discipline stats (especially O-Swing%), by count would definitely show the fine details. You'd see how each batter expands the strike-zone on different counts. I did an article in 2006 about just that: http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/2006/12/expanding_the_s.php Here's the O-Swing% by count from that article: <pre style="font-size:9pt">Count OSwing ZRatio 0-0 11.33% 1.15 0-1 22.54% 0.83 0-2 31.57% 0.51 1-0 18.61% 1.31 1-1 26.78% 1.05 1-2 37.37% 0.70 2-0 16.38% 1.61 2-1 28.58% 1.41 2-2 41.40% 0.98 3-0 2.69% 1.73 3-1 23.37% 1.67 3-2 44.86% 1.57</pre> Unfortunately, this isn't something I can show for every player at the moment. There are limitations with how I can use the data on the site and the way things currently are is the best I can do for now. Steve, you’re right that breaking down the plate discipline stats (especially O-Swing%), by count would definitely show the fine details. You’d see how each batter expands the strike-zone on different counts. I did an article in 2006 about just that: http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/2006/12/expanding_the_s.php

Here’s the O-Swing% by count from that article:

Count         OSwing         ZRatio
0-0           11.33%           1.15
0-1           22.54%           0.83
0-2           31.57%           0.51
1-0           18.61%           1.31
1-1           26.78%           1.05
1-2           37.37%           0.70
2-0           16.38%           1.61
2-1           28.58%           1.41
2-2           41.40%           0.98
3-0            2.69%           1.73
3-1           23.37%           1.67
3-2           44.86%           1.57

Unfortunately, this isn’t something I can show for every player at the moment. There are limitations with how I can use the data on the site and the way things currently are is the best I can do for now.

]]> By: Steve http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/get-to-know-f-strike/#comment-52005 Steve Sat, 15 Nov 2008 21:21:34 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/get-to-know-f-strike/#comment-52005 David, thanks for answering my email. Thinking about this a bit more, I wonder if you have the data for conditional plate discipline stats for when a hitter's ahead (3 balls, less than 2 strikes) and when he's behind. (less than 3 balls, 2 strikes) High leverage counts could show the finer skills of a player's plate discipline as opposed to the aggregate numbers by themselves. David, thanks for answering my email. Thinking about this a bit more, I wonder if you have the data for conditional plate discipline stats for when a hitter’s ahead (3 balls, less than 2 strikes) and when he’s behind. (less than 3 balls, 2 strikes) High leverage counts could show the finer skills of a player’s plate discipline as opposed to the aggregate numbers by themselves.

]]> By: Terry http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/get-to-know-f-strike/#comment-51794 Terry Sat, 15 Nov 2008 01:24:32 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/get-to-know-f-strike/#comment-51794 If looking at a PA as a battle, it's clearly strike two that dramatically swings the advantage to the pitcher. Strike one is important because strike two can't occur without it but as an end all, strike one isn't the leverage event that F-strike% might suggest. Arguing that the first strike is more important to determining the outcome of a PA because of opportunity kind of obfuscates the reality that strike two is the sledge hammer. If looking at a PA as a battle, it’s clearly strike two that dramatically swings the advantage to the pitcher.

Strike one is important because strike two can’t occur without it but as an end all, strike one isn’t the leverage event that F-strike% might suggest. Arguing that the first strike is more important to determining the outcome of a PA because of opportunity kind of obfuscates the reality that strike two is the sledge hammer.

]]> By: David Appelman http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/get-to-know-f-strike/#comment-51716 David Appelman Fri, 14 Nov 2008 18:14:37 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/get-to-know-f-strike/#comment-51716 jlebeck: I definitely see what you're saying here. It'd be easy enough to exclude home runs, which would seem be a fair thing to do. Also, I don't think the stat is intended to be used on it's own, but it's something I see people talking about enough that I thought it'd be a good addition to the plate discipline stats group. Terry: Here's an excerpt from the THT article: <i>"The chart above will confirm that the impact of a strike versus a ball on a 1-1 count, is greater than that on a 0-0 count. The 1-1 strike is worth .092 linear weights runs to the pitcher, while the 0-0 strike is worth only .069 runs. But comparatively, the impact of 0-0 strikes is almost twice that of 1-1 strikes. This is because while there were 175,638 plate appearances that included 0-0 counts, there were just 68,748 that went to a 1-1 count. If you emphasize the importance of 1-1 strikes to a pitcher, but de-emphasize the importance of 0-0 strikes, he will not do as well."</i> It's true the second strike does have more of a swing, but I'd argue the first strike is still the most important. jlebeck: I definitely see what you’re saying here. It’d be easy enough to exclude home runs, which would seem be a fair thing to do. Also, I don’t think the stat is intended to be used on it’s own, but it’s something I see people talking about enough that I thought it’d be a good addition to the plate discipline stats group.

Terry: Here’s an excerpt from the THT article: “The chart above will confirm that the impact of a strike versus a ball on a 1-1 count, is greater than that on a 0-0 count. The 1-1 strike is worth .092 linear weights runs to the pitcher, while the 0-0 strike is worth only .069 runs. But comparatively, the impact of 0-0 strikes is almost twice that of 1-1 strikes. This is because while there were 175,638 plate appearances that included 0-0 counts, there were just 68,748 that went to a 1-1 count. If you emphasize the importance of 1-1 strikes to a pitcher, but de-emphasize the importance of 0-0 strikes, he will not do as well.”

It’s true the second strike does have more of a swing, but I’d argue the first strike is still the most important.

]]> By: Terry http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/get-to-know-f-strike/#comment-51710 Terry Fri, 14 Nov 2008 17:46:14 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/get-to-know-f-strike/#comment-51710 S-strike% (second strike %) would be a more powerful measure-it's the strike that really swings outcome. S-strike% (second strike %) would be a more powerful measure-it’s the strike that really swings outcome.

]]> By: jlebeck http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/get-to-know-f-strike/#comment-51708 jlebeck Fri, 14 Nov 2008 17:43:27 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/get-to-know-f-strike/#comment-51708 D.A. says "Batters: A lower F-Strike% is preferable for batters." I get where you're going with this, but if F-Strike includes balls put in play (btw, do you count HR in this?) doesn't it muddy the water just a bit? If a guy is thrown a strike on the first pitch, but rips the heck out of it, that shouldn't be looked at as a demerit against the batter. I think F-Strike% has much value, but it just feels like there needs to be more info to really utilize it. Not sure I'm articulating what I'm thinking though. D.A. says “Batters: A lower F-Strike% is preferable for batters.”

I get where you’re going with this, but if F-Strike includes balls put in play (btw, do you count HR in this?) doesn’t it muddy the water just a bit? If a guy is thrown a strike on the first pitch, but rips the heck out of it, that shouldn’t be looked at as a demerit against the batter.

I think F-Strike% has much value, but it just feels like there needs to be more info to really utilize it.

Not sure I’m articulating what I’m thinking though.

]]>