Hank Didn’t Like Losing
“I apologize on behalf of Yankee fans everywhere.” — my friend Ryan.
If you haven’t heard, the Evil Empire apparently wasn’t done angering everyone this winter, so they topped off their off-season with a side course of Mark Teixeira. The rumored contract terms are 8 years and $170 million. I had him pegged for 7 years and $171 million back before the off-season started and we realized that this was going to be a pretty big buyer’s market. If this were a normal off-season, we’d call this pretty standard for a free agent contract, but it’s not a normal off-season, and now the Yankees have given out the three largest contracts this winter, and it’s not particularly close.
CC Sabathia: $23 million per year
Teixeira: $22.5 million per year
A.J. Burnett: $16.4 million per year
Ryan Dempster: $13 million per year
With the additions of Teixeira and Sabathia to go along with Alex Rodriguez and Derek Jeter, the Yankees now have the four highest paid players in baseball. Including their luxury tax payments, the Yankees are going to blow by $250 million in spending on their 25 man roster for 2009. They’re spending in excess of $10 million on each and every single spot on the team.
If you’re a Yankee fan, congratulations, this is what it feels like to root for the casinos in Las Vegas. The rest of baseball are casual gamblers, and you’re the guys rigging the games in your favor. I hope it’s fun for you.
As for what this move means, Teixeira replaces Melky Cabrera in the line-up and pushes Nick Swisher into the outfield. That upgrade should represent something like 3-4 wins for the Yankees (it would be closer to five if Teixeira was replacing a true replacement level player), so they’re paying about $6 million per win for their franchise. Considering that adding Teixeira probably puts them from something like an 88 win team to a 92 win team, that’s a bargain for those four wins, because this signing pushes the Yankees from “contenders” to “best team in baseball” status. That’s a pretty big leap in terms of expected playoff odds, and the Yankees certainly understand how adding Teixeira should help them improve their chances of playing in October.
Teixeira gets to play on the east coast, gets a ton of money, and will have a chance to play on a winner for the rest of his career. The Yankees get an all-star caliber player who hasn’t yet hit 30. And the rest of baseball gets a reminder that the Yankees are playing with a ridiculous competitive advantage, and that they’re really just competing against the other 28 teams for 7 playoff spots.
Screw the Yankees. Go Rays and Red Sox.
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Sure, I can’t blame the Yankees for wanting the most attractive position player out there this offseason, and the signing doesn’t guarantee them a championship. It just really really really really irks me even if I can’t suitably explain why.
Awww. Poor baby.
I posted this on USS Mariner, but at this point I’m starting to think that the best plan is to just give the Yankees the championship. Every year, Yankee Stadium can have a ceremony where they’re given a trophy for being the World Champions. Then the other 29 teams will have a 162 game season and a playoff tournament under a different name. Everyone wins. The Yankees get to buy their championships and the rest get to watch competitive baseball.
Every team buys championships.
And the fact that the Yanks haven’t won since 2000, I don’t know why you expect that they win the 09 title. A lot can happen between now and the 09 World Series.
Awww, poor baby.
Hate much? When every team in baseball spend the same percentage of their revenue on their team as the Yankees do, then your hate might be justified.
well tommy boy thats a good point. but i think you’re missing the big picture…that being that you’re a moron and the yankees want a championship. real bad apparently..and if the sox wanted to go higher than that they couldve, John Henry shouldve fucked with scott boras
uhm… it was spend this money now, or sign holiday next season… which would you have preferred? teixiera’s wife is from NY (i’m sure that’s been a factor), and the red sox lost out on him for not moving their deal $10mil.
this is why you don’t call boras’ bluff.
And the city has given the Yankees something like $960 million in tax-free bonds for the new stadium while cutting funding for the MTA so that I’m going to have to pay three dollars for each subway ride. I liked it better in the past when the Yankees were just out to beat my favorite team instead of attacking my wallet personally.
There’s really no solution to this that doesn’t gall my free market sensibilities.
Well, there is one. Base revenue sharing on market size – there’s a nifty proposd plan along those lines to be found here:
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1599
Zumsteg has the right idea.
“There’s really no solution to this that doesn’t gall my free market sensibilities”
Baseball isn’t ruled by free market principles though. If GM could get every other car company to go out of business, they’d be stoked. Everyone would have to buy a GM car. If the Yankees got every other baseball team to go out of business, they wouldn’t have people to play.
Sports require credible opponents or people won’t go.
Theirs to much Yankee hating here. They`re planning to trade Damon/Matsui/Nady to compensate for this signing. Even if they don’t, they`re dropping payroll.
Who would take any of them at their current salaries is a trade? The Yankees would have to throw in $$ to get it done. That’s not dropping payroll, that’s dumping players to have enough roster spots.
Damon is coming off a good year and with the Yanks picking up a few million somebody will take him off their hands. That’s still cutting payroll.
Nady is coming off a career year and has value. I could see the Reds giving up something of moderate value to get him without the Yanks picking up any cash. Not quite what they gave up but something decent.
Swisher being traded would be a mistake and nobody wants Matsui though.
Great post, I’m an A’s fan and am beyond bitter about the Yankees spending, may they go down in flames. The problem is that the rest of baseball is letting this happen, the other 29 teams need to step in and stop this or form a league without the Yankees called the competitive baseball league. A lot of journalists are pointing at the Rockies and Rays for low spending success. Unfortunately they fail to point out that the Rockies fell back to earth this year and the Rays will not be able to keep Longoria, Upton, Garza, Kazmir for their entire careers. Whereas the Yankees could blow every draft (which they have by the way), still win 90 plus games and almost or actually make the playoffs every year.
“Whereas the Yankees could blow every draft (which they have by the way)”
Jeter, Posada, Chamberlain, Kennedy, Hughes, etc, may disagree with you.
Farm system’s stocked with pitching as well.
Yanks are a team active in the draft, on the FA market, and on the international market (Wang, Cano, Rivera, etc). Truly a triple threat.
ok, Rivera, Jeter and Posada were taken in the mid-90s when the Yankees were under Gene Michaels (because Steinbrenner was still suspended) and cared about developing players instead of buying them. Plus, I forgot how good Kennedy was last year with his 5+ ERA, he’s so good in fact that they signed CC Sabathia and AJ Burnett to go along with Wang, Joba (who i will admit is good) and Petite who will be back with some HGH. That leaves both Hughes and Kennedy in the minors. I will admit though their bullpen should be good with the development of Veras and some of the other guys who escape me.
Actually, on the farm, you have George Kontos, Zach McAllister, Dellin Betances, Jairo Heredia, Jeremy Bleich & Andrew Brackman, along with Hughes & Kennedy. Alfredo Aceves was signed out of the Mexican League, and could possibly throw up some productive innings. Then you have the guys available on the Int’l market, as well as future drafts.
Whatever the case, if CC opts out after 3 years, or Burnett blows out his arm, the Yanks have arms to fill in. And if the offense performs like they’re supposed to, they should be able to slug their way to another divisional title.
It’s just not what pro sports are supposed to be about. MLB is not a free market… it is in part a single entity and in part a joint venture, but in no event is it a market competition. The whole point of the league is to ensure a viable economic system so that the member franchises can be successful. New York teams have an edge even in leagues where there is a salary cap… no amount of reforms would change the superior position of the top market clubs.
MLB needs to deal with this in the next CBA. The players won’t like it and the Yankees won’t like it, but the interests of professional baseball need to come first.
“MLB needs to deal with this in the next CBA. The players won’t like it and the Yankees won’t like it, but the interests of professional baseball need to come first.”
It will never happen. No matter the circumstances, the Yanks won. They won when the reserve clause was in effect, they won when free agency was in effect, they won with revenue sharing.
No matter what MLB does to try to curb the Yankees’ spending, the Yanks continue to spend.
I understand rooting against the yankees, but to say Go Red Sox? That’s a line too far…
You know what I never see mentioned when it comes time to hating on New York and their payroll? How about adding a 3rd team to the area. Maybe in Jersey. Decrease the size of the Yankees market a bit.
Everyone keeps saying how this is terrible and bad for baseball. However, I think baseball needs this. Baseball needs people to hate the Yankees and wish for their downfall. Was it a coincidence that the playoff rating were extremely low when the Yanks didnt make the postseason???
exactly. youd hafta be plain stupid not to realise that the yankees are the most popular team in baseball. love em or hate em theyre still the shit
Go Red Sox? The Red Sox have become the Yankees-lite over the last few years, in my mind.
To bring back an idea from an old, old Rob Neyer piece on ESPN, why not move a 3rd baseball team to NY? It would cut down on the percentage of NY revenues the Yankees and Mets get and bring them both down to a more level playing field. If baseball ever moves to 32 teams, then at least one of the two expansion teams should go to the NY or NJ area.
Cue the old Brooklyn Dodgers fans….
They really should have moved the Expos to Manhattan.
After 9/11, there was a big space there in which to build a baseball stadium. What bigger symbol of America is there than a baseball stadium?
It’s been a while since I’ve checked out ground zero but I’m pretty sure they couldn’t fit a stadium- or all the parking space…
Are you serious about that comment?
You must be a ignorant person from Ohio because I know many people who were affected by 9.11 and to use it in that statement is just repulsive.
karma
Is there an interest in the NYC area for a third team? It’s easy to say that that would break up the Yankees revenue, but how many people would really care about the new team instead of the one that they love?
Probably isn’t much of an interest for a 3rd team in NY. But there really isn’t a need for one. Nor will it have much of an effect, if history’s any indication; the Yanks racked up the titles when the Giants and Dodgers played in NY.
So much for the “We need to start developing our own players” regime. Can’t wait until about 5 years from now when all these new FAs are past their prime with unmovable contracts.
There isn’t much in the way of position players in the system, but the Yanks have more arms than they know what to do with.
There is no such thing as an unmovable contract. Alex Rodriguez & Mike Hampton were traded while under large contracts.
The Yankees were able to absorb Rodriguez’s contract, but where would the Yankees send their unwanted players?
IIRC, didn’t Colorado & (maybe) Florida pay most of Hampton’s salary to make him go away?
Sure, every contract is movable if there is A) a bigger fish, or B) willingness to eat a lot of money. IMO
Where? Oakland (Kenny Rogers), Arizona (Javy Vazquez, Randy Johnson, Raul Mondesi), Los Angeles (Jeff Weaver), so on and so forth.
There usually is a bigger fish to take on a contract, and how much money is eaten is contingent on the quality of player(s) received in a salary dump.
In every one of the cases you listed, the Yankees sent cash with those players to get rid of them.
So I would still say there are no bigger fish… just a bunch of little ones trying to get some of the Yankees money when they take New York’s unwanted players.
Regardless, point still stands regarding movement of high salaried players. Yanks have taken on salary with the acquisitions of Kevin Brown, Raul Mondesi, Bobby Abreu, & Cory Lidle, and they’ve dumped salary in the aforementioned trades.
And they aren’t the only team that does it, I’m sure you can find other teams who have done the same as the Yanks; off the top of my head, I’m thinking Lowell to Red Sox from the Marlins, and Dontrelle Willis to the Tigers from the Marlins
I can understand the Yankee hate, but whatever you do, don’t encourage the Red Sox. They’re still just about as insufferable on the whole.
Ant:
You wonder why ratings were low? Maybe because there are two teams that the MLB will aggressively market to the whole country. The Boston Red Sox, and the New York Yankees. ESPN shows them because they know they will sell. If other teams got more exposure, the nation wouldn’t be so swept up in Sox/Yanks mania. But America is stupid and will do whatever they are told in the media. If they’re told the Sox and Yanks are interesting to watch, they’ll be mad when they don’t make the playoffs. Blame the media and blame America. It’s all about PR and marketing, and the media doesn’t care to market anyone but the teams they want to make the playoffs.
I wrote a letter to SI expressing this sentiment after reading their “how to fix the World Series” article.
When MLB and the networks work so hard to make sure casual baseball fans only see three or four teams, things like this happen. They have every right to do this, but I think it’s creating a lot of baseball fans who don’t know anything about 70% of the teams in the sport. And when — God forbid — some of those teams make the playoffs, it’s going to result in poor ratings.
whoa whoa whoa, you mean to tell me there are teams other than the Yankees, Mets, Red Sox, and Cubs? Blasphemer.
You know, I have a tape of the 1991 NLCS game 7. Pirates-Braves. You should see all the empty seats @ Three Rivers. Do you think that if the location were Yankee Stadium, Shea Stadium, Fenway, or Wrigley, that there’d be empty seats available?
Look at how much of a hard time the Marlins & Rays had drawing people to their games despite having contending ballclubs. If people aren’t willing to support their own teams, why should fans in NY, Chicago or Boston be concerned?
That being said, screw the Red Sox too. I think they should just not let the Sox or Yanks play for a season as a penalty for screwing over the rest of baseball.
Here Here put them in the stocks old boy.
How did the Red Sox screw up baseball? As the Yankees started to push their payroll up and up the Red Sox had a choice; either concede the division year after year, or spend money. They were able to spend the money because of a fiercely loyal fanbase. The markets are not even comparable to each other. Boston is like the 24th biggest city in the country, it is a smaller market than those of a lot of teams who have much smaller revenues. Why? Because the population as a whole loves baseball and is therefore rewarded with great teams. But don’t say the Sox are like the Yankees. The Yankees will have spent almost twice as much as the Sox this coming season (after luxury tax). More than $100 million more. The difference between the Sox and Yanks is the same as the difference between the Sox and Marlins in payroll. The Yankees are playing a different game than everybody else. Its that simple.
Bitter, party of one? Your table is ready.
Now. I’m a Yankees fan and I don’t, in fact, like this. Strange, isn’t it? I thought our purpose was to rape the rest of the league. But anyway. I dislike this because it brings out people like you, who blame NY fans for this. I didn’t ask for this. I want competitiveness in the MLB, buuuuuut the fact remains that the Yankees have currently shaved 5 million off their payroll from last year. If you look at it form the standpoint of replacing a first baseman, then they are paying the same amount as they were to Giambi, except Tex is better offensively and is capable of moving in the field.
Also keep in mind that this hasn’t worked for anyone in the past decade. If it did, the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, and Cubs would have been the winners of the past 8 world series. Instead we had the Diamondbacks, Angels, Marlins, White Sox, Cardinals and Phillies all win. So what does that tell you?
I see how you get the tone of Dave not liking NY fans–and I’ve been to Yankee Stadium, I know what he’s talking about–but by and large I think we’re more mad at the Steinbrenners and management, as well as the MLB for allowing a team with such an obviously unfair advantage to be free to do whatever it wants.
Doesn’t Scott Boras also play a hand in all of this also?
The Yankees have spent tons and tons of money over the past 8 seasons and they haven’t won the World Series — does signing Mark Teixeira really guarantee them the title? He’s good but is he really that good? He certainly didn’t lead the Angels to the title last year, or any of his other teams to even the playoffs.
As for rooting for the Red Sox over the Yankees, aren’t they just about the same although they actually have a competent GM and capable scouting so they actually can use some of their own young players instead of relying on other teams.
Don’t forget they also added CC Sabathia and A.J. Burnett. Nick Swisher as well, who isn’t a superstar but he’s still a talented player. If/when the Yankees re-sign Pettitte to be their #5 starter, I’d find it hard to choose anyone else as the world series favorite. They just committed $435 million to THREE players over the next eight years. That’s $54~ million a year for the next eight years for three guys. And only one of those three will actually still be around for the eighth year. That’s just ridiculous. But it does make them favorites…
Though I will agree that Rooting for the Red Sox is just as bad/worse.
I think we should all salute the New York Yankees for cutting payroll in these hard economic times. With millions un-insured and out of work, it’s goodwill gestures like these that continue to make the Yankees America’s Team and baseball America’s Game. God Bless the Yankees.
This is the argument that makes no sense. So would you rather the Steinbrenners pocket the money, like most owners do, or put it back into the team. Either way somebody gets paid and by the Yankees spending more money on players it means that the owners of the Marlins get to have more money that they DONT AND WONT from revenue sharing and luxury tax.
Yeah, Jason that is another thing that bothers me about this. The Yankees asked for like 220 million dollars for the stadium from the state, and now they turn around and give over 300 million to 2 players. Cashman has balls the size of coconuts.
IIRC, those are two separate entities; Cashman doesn’t or didn’t handle the stadium project, that was the Steinbrenners, Lonn Trost, Randy Levine, etc, etc, etc.
With Yankees signing 3 Type (A) free agents so far, how many draft picks will the give up? And which team will receive their top pick, Brewers, Angels, or Blue Jays?
Angels, Brewers and then the Jays. I believe the Yankees lose their #1-#3 rounders, but I’m probably wrong.
I think there are a couple of things we should all agree on:
1. The Yankees aren’t guaranteed to win the WS. They have some aging players, some injury concerns, and are a little thin as reserves go.
2. As far as competition, this deal does not show that viable competition is dead. The AL East is still a brutal and awesome division. Also, shrewd and innovative general management is alive and well, and that will ensure stiff competition in the future.
3. Part of the reason I am cheesed off–and I’m sure I’m not alone–is partly due to envy. I’d love to see my team take the free agent market by storm, and if it upset the fans of every other team I bet I wouldn’t be so concerned.
4. These long term commitments are going to exact a toll at some point. Certainly next year looks damn fine–assuming Sabathia stays healthy, turns around his history of late-season struggles, and Burnett’s arm stays attached–but at some point the tide will turn.
“Cashman has balls the size of coconuts.”
I’m pretty sure that’s not healthy, he should probably go to a doctor to check those out…
Yes, this totally sucks because it makes the Yanks seem invincible, but when they don’t win the WS for yet another year, and if they possibly don’t make the playoffs either, it will be that much sweeter.
I have no horse in the race, because I am a Marlins fan, but I have no problem with the Yankee’s doing this. They are gamblers just like the other teams they just have more money to bully the table (to use a poker reference) if they were the casino, they’d be assuring their winning which hasn’t happened at all this decade. And I agree somewhat that the Red Sox are just as bad, they just happen to have more capable people running their front office so they don’t get into contrtacts like these nearly as often. They still spend, just like the Mets who have the second highest payroll ahead of the Red Sox. I’d rather see an owner shell out his revenues back into the team than just sit on it.
As far as the stadium goes I’m sure we all feel the same about publicly funded stadiums.
I guess the people screaming about “the Yankees have blown their drafts” or the “Yankees don’t home grow their players” have never heard of the following: Joba Chamberlain, Robinson Cano, Jorge Posada, Mariano Rivera, Derek Jeter, Melky Cabrera, Phil Hughes, Andy Pettitte, Wang, and a few others. Ridiculous. People complaining about payrolls wouldn’t complain if their owners spent the money instead of pocketing it. The NY market SHOULD spend more for their teams, as the fanbase and population FAR exceed the majority of other teams. Why should Kansas City be able to spend the same amount as New York, when they have less than half the market? The thing is…they could if they wanted to. The Yankees and Sox cannot afford to stock up on draft picks like the Rays because they will never be picking in the top 3 of the draft for 10 straight years. I expected better from Fangraphs. Disappointing. I’ll look elsewhere for my blog coverage now.
Chamberlain is good. Cano is mediocre. Posada is old. Rivera is amazing, but getting old. Jeter, same. Cabrera is ok. Hughes is terrible. Pettite is good, but getting old. Wang is actually good. If that’s all you’ve got from drafting, it’s not going to be a very good team.
Why should the Royals be able to spend as much as the Yankees? Because the fact that there are a dozen also-rans out of the 30 teams is bad for the sport. The MLB is not the NBA – you don’t need to have a top 3 pick to get good players. I’ll use the Phillies as an example because they’re the only team I follow closely. They drafted Utley, Howard, Victorino (rule 5), Burrell, Myers, Rollins, Madson, and Hamels. That’s their two best starters, the second best reliever, and 5 of their 6 best position players. The only pick in the top 3 was Burrell.
NY is the biggest market, but why does that mean they should be able to pick up almost every single big name free agent? The competitive imbalance is absurd, and it’s so stereotypical of a New Yorker to feel offended when anyone questions that they deserve to be the center of the universe.
The money imbalance is absurd. The competitive imbalance is not. The Phillies and the Rays played in the world series this year. The Rockies made it last year. The Marlins have had 4 winning seasons in the last 6 years.
They didn’t have to sign Teix. They were planning to go with Swisher @ 1b. Reports were that Teix was going to sign with the Red Sox. This signing has the advantage that the Yanks get a good player, and it keeps the Red Sox from improving (though as is, they have a pretty good club)
the only problem with the Marlins and Rockies is that you can’t root for a player long term, as neither team could afford to sign Cabrera or Holliday. Granted the Marlins probably could’ve ponied up the cash for Cabrera but would not have been able to sign anybody else. The same for the Rockies. I still love how the “Yankee fans” keep bringing up these yankees that are so great that the front office are trying to upgrade at the position, see Melky and Cano. Each sport needs a villan, however the smaller teams can not build fan bases when they can not compete for extended periods of time or give you players to root for.
I get to root for Hanley for 6 more years
The competitive imbalance is absurd. There are only two things that help mitigate that:
1) Early career stars are underpaid while they’re under team control, and sometimes they’ll sign long contracts at way below market value. This is how the Rays (whole team) and the Phillies (Utley and Rollins are below market value, Werth, Victorino, Howard, Hamels are under team control) got to the playoffs. This is inherently cyclical, unless you have the budget to buy your way out of the cycle.
2) A 5 or 7 game playoff series is such a small sample that it’s almost a crap shoot.
The Yankees can buy a spot into the playoffs 90% of the time, leaving 7 spots for the other 29 teams. They missed last year due to some bad luck and a historically strong division, but the odds of them missing in any given year are long.
Bye Chris.
haha, agreed.
Of the nine guys you listed, four were amateur free agent signings. Just because the Yankees are the only team that Cano, Wang, Rivera & Cabrera have ever played for does not mean that they weren’t signed as free agents.
Enjoy the other blogs.
If they can’t sign players, what exactly are they doing with their revenue sharing monies? I thought the point of having a shiny new stadium like the Rockies was that they were supposed to compete? Weren’t they in the WS a couple of years ago? What happened?
The Rockies have strange altitude-related problems that no other franchise has to really deal with, also their scouting seems like it can improve. Also, they have around a fifth of their payroll tied up into one player. On the plus side, that Hampton contract just came off the books…
That’s something I’m not sure of; is it the Yanks fault that the Rockies signed Mike Hampton and Darryl Kile? Do Yankee fans gnash their teeth because the small time Rockies traded one of their “stars” to a large market club? Wait, why can the A’s afford Holliday, but the Rockies can’t?
FWIW, I understand that Holliday wasn’t in the Rockies’ immediate plans. Which to me implies that he was traded for other reasons besides “the Rockies can’t afford him.”
I think you misconstrued what I was saying. In my comment I didn’t mention the Yankees at all so I’m not sure where the comparison is coming from. You said “what happened [to the Rockies]?” In ‘08 the Rockies were an incredibly unlucky team – a lot of injuries as well as a poor BA with RISP. The reason the Rockies traded Matt Holliday was because they tried to extend him earlier but never reached an agreement. The Rockies are unwilling to sign players to huge contracts right now because of the Hampton/Neagle signings as well as their current contract with Todd Helton, who (when healthy) is still a fine ball player but one who doesn’t produce like a 17 million dollar player would (which is around a quarter of their payroll).
Holliday wanted a very long contract and with Boras as an agent, wasn’t going to settle for anything but top dollar. The Rockies could have afforded him next season but they felt they would be better trading him and getting something instead of draft picks. The A’s can afford him for one year and will trade him if they’re not competitive or just take their draft picks when he leaves if they are competitive.
As a last point, the altitude problems I mentioned was more in reference to their Colorado Springs AAA club than the Rockies themselves…
Not so much misconstruing as going off on a different tangent. The original entry I posted was to address points bought up by Brant K, who tried to tie the “plight” of the Marlins & Rockies to the Yanks’ spending.
The Rockies’ problems are complex (and you can say that about any organization, really), people have a tendency to equate correlation with causation. For whatever reason, they did not contend this year, signing a bunch of free agents may remedy that, it may not. They may not have a need to sign free agents or maybe they simply don’t want to. There is more than one way to build a team.
The Rockies can buy players, they can afford to keep them, they can develop players. Holliday for whatever reason decided he wanted to test the market. He got traded to the A’s who will, as you say, use him and lose him (and take the picks), or flip him for something of value. The Rockies could have done the same thing, but chose not to. Maybe it was the right thing to do, maybe it wasn’t, time will tell. But it seemed to be the right thing to do at the time.
And everyone jumping on the “Red Sox are more capable in their front office” bandwagon: They bid 10 million less for the same number of years. Don’t kid yourselves, they wanted this player bad. Theo is probably furious right now. But since the Yankees got him, it’s against the law.
Right, but you wouldn’t actually try to say that the Yankees are a more capable front office. Yeah they wanted Teix, what team with money wouldn’t, but they also didn’t sign Sabathia and Burnett as well. I said they don’t sign huge long term contracts AS often, because they don’t need to.
The Yanks didn’t have to sign Burnett or Teix. Burnett received a similar offer from the Braves, Teix received a similar offer from the Red Sox. The Yanks were set to go with Nick Swisher @ 1b. It can be argued that the reason they signed Teix was to prevent him from signing with the Red Sox.
Remember — only the Yankees get the hysteria treatment. Cameron’s a great blogger, but the “Go Red Sox” portion makes him sound like Olney or (almost as bad these days) Kahrl.
Dave,
Aren’t you a Mariners fan? At least the Yankees spend their money somewhat wisely these days. The Mariners struggle to get league-average production out of half the payroll of the Yankees.
Bavasi is gone now.
Also, this isn’t USS Mariner. This is Fangraphs. I also expected a bit more impartial coverage, and this comes from an Indians’ fan.
Wouldn’t it make sense to compare Tex to Giambi and Swisher to Cabrera when comparing win value change? Your saying they gain 3-4 wins and using the 88 from last year, but Swisher was not on that team.
Seriously, this isn’t USSMariner Dave. I’m a huge Mariners fan, but I come to Fangraphs for impartial coverage. They had money to spend on quality free agents, what did you expect them to do? Plus, saying “Go Red Sox” and condemning the Yankees is pretty stupid. The Red Sox have been spending a lot of money too. You’re better than this Dave, relax.
Guess I should change my name (to include last initial) on here so it doesnt look like I am both a Marlins and Mariners fan.
I agree with otheres here. Many may not like it but I feel that baseball needs another check on the Yankees in the next CBA. Zumstreg idea is interesting but I think a more realistic option would be to increase the luxury tax to %100 for “serial violators” possibly even %150-%200 for something like payrolls above 210m
Also I feel it’s unfair to call the Red Sox the Yankees Lite. Bostons payroll last year was not in the top 5 I beleive and is currently less than half the Yankees. There success lately has been the result of having arguably the most productive farm system in baseball over the past 3-4yrs.
They are fourth. Yankees, Mets, Tigers, Red Sox. They were well above half of the Yankees, about 30 MM
I ment the Sox payroll is currently less than half of the Yankees. I think thats correct granted it will likely change before the start of the season. Yes they were fourth last year in payroll still including the Luxury Tax thats about a 100m difference or around that
How are the Red Sox the Yankees-lite? They currently have three major free agent signings on the team (Drew, Matsuzaka, Lugo.) Everyone else is homegrown (Youk, Pedroia, Ellsbury, Papelbon, etc.), traded for (Lowell, Beckett, Varitek, Bay) or picked up off the scrapheap (Ortiz and Wakefield.) They have a high payroll, but it’s mostly spent keeping talent that either they developed or obtained by trading away farm products. Yes, they wanted Tex and were willing to to pony up the money for him, but so were the Orioles, Nationals, and Angels. It wasn’t like the Sox and Yankees were the only two teams in this equation.
I agree that the Yankees are pretty disgusting and that MLB payrolls/player contracts are absolutely absurd. However, in the context of things, this just makes the Yankees fit the role of the villain even better. And everyone knows the Yankees couldn’t compete with just their homegrown players.
To the person who criticized Dave for being a Mariner fan: you fail to recognize that Dave has been one of the harshest critics of the M’s over the past few years. Plus, Zdruencik does not equal Bavasi.
Also, I have to support the Red Sox..They are an intelligent organization and I think are truly the model organization. Ideal mix of homegrown talent and inteligent acquisitions in proportion to their market size.
First, I’m with the many people here who don’t get the “Go Red Sox” portion of this. It ain’t like the Sox are winning with a $40 million payroll, and they were in on the bidding here until very late in the game.
I’m no Yankee fan at all, but the rules of the game are what they are and every team plays by the same ones. The Yankees play the off-the-field game as well as anyone, from negotiating their deals with the city for the new stadium to getting the maximum revenue possible from their broadcast rights to marketing the team well enough that it has the juice to accomplish everything else. They clearly have the money to spend. Seems like a no-brainer to use the cash to bring in the players that give it the best chance at the World Series.
Agree, at least they are spending it on premium guys this time. Consolidating talent, unlike Pavano, Damon, etc.
Pavano was a stupid signing, Damon was reasonable, Igawa was reasonable but didn’t work out.
To be honest, they haven’t had an offseason like this (where they bought everyone up) since the 70’s
Go Rays and Sox? Please, like the Sox are much better. Go everyone but the yankees and sox.
I guess Im not really sure I understand why we are supposed to give the Yankees’ farm system credit because of Jeter, Posada and Rivera…that was 10 – 15+ years ago. Should I give the Mariners farm system credit because they had Griffey and A-Rod?
It is wonderful that the Yankees have been able to keep around THREE great players over the last 10 years…seriously…couldnt you talk about any team and say well they created Player A, Player B and Player C? Of course, there are not many that you could say they also gave Player A $20+million, Player B 15+million and Player C 13+million.
The fact that the Yankees were able to do this is perfectly legal in the current system…and amazingly enough despite having the most talent they might not win the championship. Any game includes a decent part of luck so it is quite possible that luck might not shine on this team. However, this doesn’t mean that these signings are good for baseball. Im pretty sure it’d be much better for fans in Kansas City to think they have a chance and the fans in New York not thinking they can buy any player they want as opposed to the current scenario we have today. Look how much more popular the NFL is than MLB right now…
The NFL isn’t more popular than MLB because the Yankees keep winning. A sizeable chunk of it goes to the marketing of the game. Besides, with a level playing field, when was the last time the Bengals, Lions and Cardinals won it all?
As posted in the ESPN article http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3790141
“The Yankees indeed shed $88.5 million from their books (included in that total — $23.4 million on Jason Giambi, $16 million on Bobby Abreu, and $11 million to both Mike Mussina and Carl Pavano), and even with the Teixeira contract, they expect their payroll to fall below $200 million.”
I see the Yankees as making a very scary shift in philosophy…they used to be impatient and trade top prospects for the superstar…example of Johan Santana…now they get CC and don’t give up any prospects. Anyone who has knowledge of the minor leagues knows the Yankees have invested quite a bit of budget in the minor leagues the last 3-4 years. The quality of arms is a bit scary. I really believe the Yankees had a plan dating back to Santana, purposely waiting until this off-season to shoot for the stars. Next year the free agent list is pretty quiet (I think Hansen and that’s it really) So now the Yankees spend money on the top 3 free agents in 08, only lose 1 first round pick (CC and AJ comp drops down to a 2nd and 3rd round) and your minor league arms can be brought along instead of rushing like they did last year.
Well Dave i believe what you are experiencing at the moment is more commonly refered to has “hardcore jealousy” theres a reason whuy the yankees bought all them players dude, its because…well because hank doesnt like losing. and pardon my french but you’re a fucking idiot if you’re gonna yell at someone who doesnt want to lose. If you can afford it…buy it. its that simple man. it really is. The comissioner of baseball is dumb enough not to have a salery cap, and hank is simply capitalising on that.
Im a diehard yankee fan and i wouldn’t consider myself the guy rigging the games. the yankees aren’t “rigging” a thing. no the yankees are more like the rich kids at a showdown tourniment whos parents can afford to buy them that barry bonds with the 16 on base and 17-20 homerun. yeah i’d say thats a lot more fitting.
everyone knows that they yankees are the detroit lions of scouting, so they make up for it by buying good players. okay lets say that it takes about 5 years for a porspect to “blossom”. well, instead of training a kid for 5 years and sucking, they skip that, wait till he becomes a free agent, and drive a cement mixer full ofmoneyup to his frong pourch. you can call them the evil empire all you cant but at the end of the day theyre undoubtedly the best team [on paper] in baseball.
so in summation, you and all your doofy ass, wicked cool boston friends can go drive your caaah down to baaston yaaad and see the shaak exipit. just cause you dont like how the yankees get good players doesnt mean theyre an evil empire. empire? yes. is hank evil? more likely than not..but dont you DARE go dragging the good name of the new york yankees through the dirt liek that because if you were in their position you’d do the same thing. and if you didnt, then you’re an idiot whos obviously concerned more about everyone being equal than winning a ring. know what you are? you’re a baseball communist. you want everyone to have an equal team, and everyone should win 90 games and be happy. well you can go suck a fuck cause that aint ever gonna happen. i think its pretty damn immature that you dont liek a team simply because the get good players. if you’re not the best, then what in the HELL is the point of even playing?
yankees are teh winnar!
Seriously, where have these people suddenly come from.
Well Dave i believe what you are experiencing at the moment is more commonly refered to has “hardcore jealousy” theres a reason whuy the yankees bought all them players dude, its because…well because hank doesnt like losing. and pardon my french but you’re a fucking idiot if you’re gonna yell at someone who doesnt want to lose. If you can afford it…buy it. its that simple man. it really is. The comissioner of baseball is dumb enough not to have a salery cap, and hank is simply capitalising on that.
Im a diehard yankee fan and i wouldn’t consider myself the guy rigging the games. the yankees aren’t “rigging” a thing. no the yankees are more like the rich kids at a showdown tourniment whos parents can afford to buy them that barry bonds with the 16 on base and 17-20 homerun. yeah i’d say thats a lot more fitting.
everyone knows that they yankees are the detroit lions of scouting, so they make up for it by buying good players. okay lets say that it takes about 5 years for a porspect to “blossom”. well, instead of training a kid for 5 years and sucking, they skip that, wait till he becomes a free agent, and drive a cement mixer full ofmoneyup to his frong pourch. you can call them the evil empire all you cant but at the end of the day theyre undoubtedly the best team [on paper] in baseball.
so in summation, you and all your doofy ass, wicked cool boston friends can go drive your caaah down to baaston yaaad and see the shaak exipit. just cause you dont like how the yankees get good players doesnt mean theyre an evil empire. empire? yes. is hank evil? more likely than not..but dont you DARE go dragging the good name of the new york yankees through the dirt liek that because if you were in their position you’d do the same thing. and if you didnt, then you’re an idiot whos obviously concerned more about everyone being equal than winning a ring. know what you are? you’re a baseball communist. you want everyone to have an equal team, and everyone should win 90 games and be happy. well you can go suck a fuck cause that aint ever gonna happen. i think its pretty damn immature that you dont liek a team simply because the get good players. if you’re not the best, then what in the HELL is the point of even playing??
lol… i don’t like the yankees, but funny post
wow, never thought I’d see something like this on Fangraphs. Maybe ESPN, but wow.
can someone please explain why rooting for the red sox is as bad as rooting for the yankees? no, the red sox are not too conservative with spending, but it seems (as this offseason proved) that they are not on the same plane as ny.
Though the Red Sox bandwagon has certainly grown over the years, Boston remains a classy and innovative organization. I don’t understand how Cashman gets so much credit for his GM abilities when all he does is throw around money (albeit somewhat efficiently).
I’m not a Red Sox fan at all, but they took chances with some players (Ortiz, Drew, Youkilis, Lowell ) to get where they are at, and that’s respectable. There is obviously some craft in their roster construction. The Yankees just buy whatever’s hot at the moment.
Good for them.
It just makes it even sweeter when more innovative teams beat them out.
“The Yankees just buy whatever’s hot at the moment. ”
Let’s see; the Twins didn’t want to pay Ortiz, JD Drew opted out of his contract with the Dodgers, Youk came up through the system, Lowell was a salary dump, courtesy of the Marlins, and retained via free agency.
Want to pick some different examples? Because we can say that the Yanks took a chance on Wang, Cano, Cabrera, Abreu, Chamberlain & Kennedy.
As for Cashman’s GM abilities, he’s made big splashes, such as the Rodriguez, Abreu & Justice trades, he has made shrewd pickups, such as Scott Proctor & Shawn Chacon, and has been active in the FA market, with mixed results (Pavano, Wright, Igawa). All the while rebuilding the farm system through the draft, and the International FA market. 2008 began, he had Jeter, Rivera, Posada, Wang, Chamberlain, Hughes, Kennedy, Cano and Cabrera, players that were developed in the Yankee system. As of now, all these players are still with the Yankees.
2004 – 2007, he kept the Yanks in contention despite numerous players suffering injuries. It finally caught up to them in 2008. Fine, that’s ok, it happens.
I think you are being a bit unfair in your assessment of Cashman. While the Yanks have no problem dropping coin, they have acquired players through scouting and development as well.
As a friend of mine put it, those poor Red Sox, how are they supposed to get by on a $150M payroll?
I’m not a Yankees fan, but excuse me if I don’t suddenly forget the obnoxiousness of the Red Sox fans. No one cares about the Yanks overspending when they’re incompetent about it, of course, because all the other poor teams get the revenue.
This is bad for the game, to be sure. ON the other hand, slumlords like Jeffrey Loria are still 10 times worse.
Don’t forget David Glass. Or Carl Pohlad.
If anyone is considering Joba just a “good” pitcher, you’re insane. The dude had a sub 3 ERA in the AL East in limited time as a starter. Smaller sample size, sure, but what has he done to make you think it will go up very much? His BB rate will almost certainly go down as well. I’m also not even sure Hughes is 22 yet, so I wouldn’t count out the #1 pitching prospect in baseball from a few years ago. The Yanks have such a ridiculous amount of high ceiling arms in the farm that it’s not fair when you count their money resources too. Also, why is the bitching and complaining reaching such a high level right now when they will have a lower payroll than last year? Add about 30 million coming off the books after next season too. If the Yankees had won the WS over the last 8 years with this type of payroll, I could see the argument for a salary cap. But spending money doesn’t guarantee you anything with the crap shoot that is the 5 game series. Are you mad because they lowered payroll and operated within the rules? Step back and look at this logically. Also, write the owners of your team and ask why they don’t spend your money on good players.
At this point, if I were a Yankees fan, I’d be pretty embarrassed if they didn’t win the World Series this year. Anything less should be considered a colossal failure. Actually, I suppose they’re already pretty embarrassed that the Rays were able to overtake them last year. I personally find it pretty boring rooting for a team that should always win, and then doesn’t, rather than rooting for the underdogs and surprise teams in the league. Most Yankees fans I’ve met, talked with, or seen at games, all seem to have the same personality: they feel that they are entitled to winning and shouldn’t have to earn it. They’re spoiled, and no matter what, if they lose its because the other team did something, never their own shortcomings. I suppose to the organization “earning” means spending as much as you can and amassing what is basically an All-Star team. Here’s to the 2009 Yankees… anything short of bringing the title to New York will be a complete and utter failure and embarrassment.
I agree that anything short of a title is a bust year. Unfortunately, that would be true if they signed Tex or not. And I don’t feel entitled at all. That is how they market their team every year, so they bring it on themselves. You’re right, most Yankee fans lack common sense and true baseball reasoning. But on the other hand, these signings are bringing out the irrationality in otherwise smarter fans from the other teams. And since the Yankees don’t win every year, why is it boring to root for the team? And why should anyone feel they can’t compete? They’ve competed fine over the last 8 years. Once again, you’re missing the point. Signing big name free agents doesn’t guarantee victory, so why the complaining? I think the problem that people have is that the Yankees are spending the money on very good free agents and not Pavano, RJ, Wright, etc. THE PAYROLL IS LOWER, YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE MORE COMPLAINING LAST YEAR AND THE YEAR BEFORE!!!!!!!!
I’ll also say one thing about Cashman. He was a freaking ninja in these negotiations. To think he just wrote a check is silly. No one had the Yankees as legitimate suitors for Texiera until today. He wanted it that way. Do you not think the Red Sox called Boras’s bluff because they figured the Yankees weren’t in on him? I’m usually a fan of Theo’s negotiating. He handled the Dice-K stuff brilliantly, because Boras had no leverage in that situation and Theo knew it. But they got owned in this. Texiera was their prize this offseason, a perfect Bill James type player. Cashman laid low until he saw his opening and moved quick. Boras probably never even told the Sox that the Yankees were the highest bidder on Tuesday. I just can’t imagine the Sox being willing to do 8 years/168, and not 8/180. Missing out on your target and letting him go to your rival for 1.5 million a year? I can’t see that. If so, they have no room to complain about “financial disadvantage” to the Yankees.
Maybe because the fact Teixeira just simply does not warrant spending $180M on? Seriously. He’s being paid like he’s a legit MVP candidate year after year when the fact is, he’s never finished above 7th. Imagine him in years 5 through 8. Henry handled the situation brilliantly by sticking to his guns. The Sox have shown time and time again that they’ll set a distinct value on a player and if they’re unwilling to find a medium, then they’ll move on. There’s no disadvantage, the Sox are just wiser in spending their money. If it takes $450M for the Yankees to be a competitive team in the East, then so be it.
Placement in MVP voting = the New Moneyball
/snark
Sorry, Pat, couldn’t resist.
I’m not sure why you blame the Yankees for spending their own money. The Yankees are a money-making machine. What do you want them to do, just take that money and put it away somewhere? You can’t get on Cashman for spending the money that he has.
I would love to see some sort of salary cap put in place to control this thing, but the fact is that there isn’t one. The Yankees are doing what they do in a system that allows them to do so. If you don’t like it, blame the system, don’t blame the Yankees.
FWIW, pulled from Fangraphs
Free Agent Values: Mark Teixeira
http://tinyurl.com/6nr85q
“If Teixeira is a +5 win player, and we use the $5.5 million per win projection for off-season spending, that gives us a $27.5 million figure for 2009. Again, we’ll factor in a 10% discount off of his current value for the safety of a long term deal, and that gives us something like $24.5 million for Teixeira. Teams are more comfortable giving longer deals to hitters than pitchers, so let’s pencil him in for a 7 year, $171 million contract.”
Cots Baseball Contracts: 09:$20M, 10:$20M, 11-16:$22.5M annually
Free Agent Values: A.J. Burnett
http://tinyurl.com/5q38mv
“3.3 wins * 5.5 million per win = $18.15 million in projected 2009 value. We again factor in a 10% discount rate to make up for the fact that he’s going to get a long term deal, and that gives us an annual average value of $16.4 million. Given Burnett’s history, it’s unlikely he’ll get more than four or five years. That puts his projected contract at 4 years/$66 million or 5 years/$82 million.”
Cots Baseball Contracts: 09-13:$16.5M annually
Free Agent Values: CC Sabathia
http://tinyurl.com/9bd2xt
“5.5 million * 5.5 wins = 30.25 million. That’s what we’d expect Sabathia to be worth if he signed a one year deal, which he clearly won’t do. In exchange for the security of a long term deal, he’ll give teams a slight discount off his current value. At a 10% discount for the safety of a five to seven year deal, that would put his annual average salary at $27 million.”
Cots Baseball Contracts: 09:$14M, 10-15:$23M annually
The Yanks signed these players at below projected market value, for what teams were bidding for their services. What was the problem again?
It’s a 100% guarantee that one if not a couple of these signings will be a bust. They signed 2 overworked arms that will never hold up through the length of these contracts. And when they do get hurt, they’re stuck with them due to the contract terms. I’m a Twins fan and I believe that we still have a better pitching staff 1-5 than the Yankees even with CC and AJ. Baseball is still about grooming your farm system and holding on to your young players as long as you can. Thus when the Yanks don’t win this year, we can all look back at today and wonder why we were so upset.
Right now, I would pick at least 3 other teams to advance to the WS in the AL before NY. Look for the Indians, Twins or RedSox to get there before NY.
The Yankees are doing what they do in a system that allows them to do so. If you don’t like it, blame the system, don’t blame the Yankees.
Hate the game not the player, right? That’s outstanding.
The Yanks have been successful in just about every single decade. Nothing MLB does or did will change that.
“Baseball is still about grooming your farm system and holding on to your young players as long as you can.”
Yep, as evidenced by the terms of Jeter, Posada, Rivera, Cabrera, Cano, Gardner, Wang, Hughes & Chamberlain. Should we count Pettitte? The reason why he left had nothing to do with the Yanks not being able to afford him.
The rotation shapes up as such;
CC – AJ – Wang – Chamberlain – Hughes/Kennedy/Aceves. Someone falters, whomever is left out of the 5th starter’s spot (which in reality probably won’t see time until May), gets the call.
Down on the farm, the Yanks have Alan Horne, Chase Wright, Eric Hacker, Jason Jones, Phil Coke, Christian Garcia, George Kontos, Zach McAllister, Dellin Betances, Jairo Heredia, Jeremy Bleich, & Andrew Brackman. Lets throw Igawa’s name out there for a laugh too. Any of these pitchers progress like they’re supposed to, you’ll see any combination of these guys in 09-10 and beyond.
Then there’s the International market, where the Yanks have landed players like Rivera, Igawa, Contreras, Cano, Aceves, etc, etc, etc.
Then there’s the secondary market; players that are released during the season, for whatever reason; which is how Ponson & Leiter were acquired
Then there’s the trade market, teams that tear down during the season, for whatever reason; falling out of contention, rebuilding, etc.
The Yanks will be fine.
Whatever. Yankee honks made the same arguement last season too. They figured with Chamberlain, Hughes and Kennedy their starting pitching couldn’t go wrong. Oops.
Yep, as evidenced by the terms of Jeter, Posada, Rivera, Cabrera, Cano, Gardner, Wang, Hughes & Chamberlain. Should we count Pettitte? The reason why he left had nothing to do with the Yanks not being able to afford him.
Seriously? You’re going to throw out the names of three guys in their mid-30’s as evidence that the Yankees ‘groom their farm system’? Hughes and Joba have pretty much done nothing but not get hurt, the Yanks can’t wait to move Melky is sounds like and Brett Gardner is awesome because??
Um you do realize that the guys you mentioned are still with the team, and are products of the farm system, right? There is much gnashing of teeth and rendering of garments because “OMG TEH YANKEEZZ BUY PLAYERZZZZZ!!!11!!1!” when they have been active in all fronts of building a team; whether it’s the draft, ML free agency, Int’l free agency, the scrap heap, or a good old fashioned trade.
Hughes and Joba have injury histories, true, but I think it would be pretty stupid to give up on their talent, what with them only being 22 & 23 years old, respectively.
And for all their injuries, the staff performed about the same they did in 2008. It gets better; if the Yanks suffer more injuries, instead bringing in guys like Darrell May, Tim Redding, Al Leiter, Sidney Ponson, Cory Lidle, etc, etc, etc, they have in-house replacements. Oops indeed.
Melky figures into the Yanks’ plans next year, which is why he wasn’t moved. Do you honestly think that the trade with the Brewers fell through because the Yanks were being cheap with Igawa?
Gardner’s a 4th-5th OF, and Damon/Matsui (both contracts are up at the end of 2009) are holding a place until Austin Jackson is ready (next on the chart, since Tabata was traded). And if they aren’t ready, then guess what, a FA is signed or a trade is made until the guys in the minors are ready.
I’m not a Yankees fan…but this venom, man it’s so childish and silly. Didn’t the reports say that the Nationals were offering a similar contract to Teixiera? So you’re blaming the team for the choice the player made (winning team with history vs. terrible team with location)? None of these players had a gun to their heads that said “take the extra X million dollars you don’t need, and play for the Yankees” (despite what their agents might’ve made them thing).
And this argument I’ve heard about “oh, the Yankees shouldn’t be spending money like this during a recession” – that’s the dumbest thing. During a recession, the people who have excess money SHOULD be spending it, and putting it into circulation. I hope CC, AJ, Mark, K-Rod, and all these other millionaires put their money into reasonable, economy-friendly investments.
The only thing that angers me about this is the issue that the Yankees get money from the taxpayers/city for their new stadium, and then show that they didn’t need it. That’s abysmal.
Sports teams ARE a business, I understand that, but they are businesses that should be handled as if they were a public trust. Teams aren’t obliged to break even or operate at a loss, but they should be obliged to put the majority of team-based profits back into the team – something the Yankees certainly do, but the Royals/Twins/other small/mid-market teams do not do.
Um you do realize that the guys you mentioned are still with the team, and are products of the farm system, right?
No Raf, I didn’t realize that. Because I’m not a Yankee fan I’m obviously a f***ing idiot.
The Yankees do develop some players. Even a completely horribly run franchise has some home grown players (see: Mariners, Seattle). That the Yankees are massively overpaying for Posada and Jeter isn’t the point I guess.
What pisses people off isn’t that the Yankees spend their money, it’s that they just throw money at their problems like no one else can. People are mad because the Yankees can afford to pay Posada $13.1M for the next 3 years. Who else can really swing that?
I’ll agree with you that some people are being a little ridiculous about this whole thing. They still have to win. But the fact is that the deck is stacked in their favor and that makes it less fun for baseball fans if not Yankee fans.
Um yeah. Their payroll is going DOWN, nimwit. Its going down 30 million next year too. Should they not replace those expiring contracts and instead throw the money into the ocean?
Your column is a joke, Dave. If you want your team to have a similar financial advantage, how about convincing them to build a huge incredibly loyal fanbase through years of winning. The Yankees income is mandated by god or a part of some devine intervention. They simply have a lot more fans, and are doing it in a 2 team city.
We like baseball here in New York a LOT more than most other places and we love our team a whole lot more then most places. Theres your “unfair advantage”, you whiner.
Come out with a better tone, and I shall respond in kind…
Anyway, Jeter, for better or worse, is the Yankees franchise player, and Posada is a catcher that can hit.
The Yanks aren’t the only team that could afford Posada. Dodgers, Red Sox, Mets, Angels, Tigers are 4 teams that quickly come to mind.
Why should it matter that the Yanks are paying Posada $13.1M? The year before his extension, he made $12M. Ivan Rodriguez made $12.4 last year, Jason Varitek $10.4M. Mike Piazza, at the peak of his contract, made $16M. I’m not quite understanding the issue, do you think the Posada contract wasn’t priced right?
About the deck being stacked in the Yankees’ favor, I pointed out earlier in the thread that this isn’t some sort of recent phenomenon; it has been that way ever since they bought Babe Ruth from the Red Sox. The Yanks have had success more often than not, and there isn’t much, if anything MLB can do about it.
We like baseball here in New York a LOT more than most other places and we love our team a whole lot more then most places. Theres your “unfair advantage”, you whiner
Nice, name calling. How do you people end up at fangraphs anyways?
I had been lurking on and off, been following Cameron’s writings since alt.net & strikethree.com. Yanks fan since the 80’s, but started causally following the M’s sometime in 1990. The power of Jr. I suppose :).
Anyway, since I’ve been playing it straight in this thread, I know that entry wasn’t directed @ me, I just felt like sharing. Long, slow day @ work…
Sorry, Raf that totally wasn’t directed at you. Just to be clear.
I know, I was just sayin’. I was bored @ work. :)
Yeah, in the spirit of Christmas I congratulate Yankee fans on aquiring a really excellent player. All things considered this is better than signing Carl Pavano or trading Buhner. ;D
Loads better than Pavano. I said it then, I’ll say it now; Wright, Pavano & Womack were 3 of the dumbest signings in Yankees history.
At least the Buhner trade could be justified somewhat; The Yanks had an outfield of Rickey Henderson, Claudell Washington & Dave Winfield. Roberto Kelly was in the system too. Jack Clark was @ DH. Buhner wasn’t going to crack that lineup.
Of course, had the Yanks waited a year, Buhner would’ve gotten all the playing time he needed, what with Rickey & Clark geting traded, and Winfield missing the 89 season.
And I think part of people’s anger is the very fresh memory of those three signings. That was a wicked outfield there for a bit.
Personally, I miss sitting in leftfield @ the Kingdome, general admission and chanting “Meeeeeellllll!! Meeeeeelllllllllllll!!” @ poor Mel Hall and him complaining to the 3rd base umpire between innings.
“You should have never traded Buhner!!”
Keep in mind: the Yanks also get to pay out the nose for Tex’s decline years.
Yeah, but I’m guessing Tex is going to age fairly well. He’s not your typical lumbering, immobile 1Bman.
Plus you have to consider the ever-rising value of a win. Assuming $4.9 million per win for 2009 and an annual rate of inflation of 9.5%, the average value of a win over the life of the contract would be $6.9 million, so he’d really only have to be worth about 3.3 WAR a year to justify the contract. To break it down, this is the bare minimum he’d need to accomplish in any given year:
2009 – 4.6 WAR
2010 – 4.2 WAR
2011 – 3.8 WAR
2012 – 3.5 WAR
2013 – 3.2 WAR
2014 – 2.9 WAR
2015 – 2.7 WAR
2016 – 2.4 WAR
Seems doable, no?