Comments on: How Many Pitches Does it Take? Part One

By: Tim

Tim — Tue, 24 Mar 2009 06:16:46 +0000

Lincecum’s changeup may have been a major help

By: Walter Jones

Walter Jones — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 23:43:08 +0000

How about White Sox pitchers who were taught the cutter after joining the organization? Jenks, Contreras, Danks and Esteban Loiaza come to mind — as do guys like Aardsma, Sisco, MacDougal, etc. It’s been a fairly well-documented strategy from the ChiSox’s scouting side, but I’d be curious to see if it truly pays off using this form of analysis. Just my two cents …

By: MG

MG — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 20:48:18 +0000

Two things instantly pop-up to make this largely a futile exercise:

- Sample sizes issues. Only really have sample sizes large enough for the pitchers with 3/4 pitches to draw some real conclusions. I am willing to bet the 95% CI intervals are pretty large for the other sample sizes and makes it pretty dubious to draw any conclusions from them with much certainty.

- pitch f/x data is interesting but as several others have pointed out it still does a fairly inaccurate job of classifying a pitchers’ true repertoire because of the number of pitchers who throw a modified fastball or a offspeed pitch that can be difficult to classify.

- Given that you have larger sample sizes for the 3/4 pitch groups, I would be curious to see breakouts between starters who are primarily fastball/sliders guys (norm usually today) vs. fastball/other type of breaking pitch

By: Matt B.

Matt B. — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 19:09:05 +0000

Halladay (cutter), ErvSantana (slider) would be two I’d like to see if you have the time.

By: R.J. Anderson

R.J. Anderson — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 19:06:44 +0000

For now stuff like arm angles, grips, etc. is not being classified as different pitches.

By: mike pelfrey

mike pelfrey — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 19:00:37 +0000

I know it would be very hard to track, but there is a significant difference between a 2 seam fastball and a 4 seam fastball. I always threw exclusively a 2 seamer until I couldnt locate it at all (until may 31st).

Then, for the first time in my professional career, i threw a four seamer (instead of a two seamer) to get better command of the strike zone (ie 0-1 vs 1-0) and had tremendous results. The drastic differences in my stats (before and after may 31st) were due basically to me throwing a 4 seamer and not a 2 seamer which allowed me to throw more strikes.

But other than that anecdote, this is pretty cool analysis. I would like to see the stats broken down by SP and RP.

What about someone like el duque, who throws about 8 different “pitches” due to arm angle and speed, even though many may be classified as the same thing?

By: Rafa

Rafa — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 18:26:09 +0000

Less pitch variety = more dominant pitches = higher k/9, lower HR/9, and lower FIP, but leads to overthrowing = higher BB/9 (usually).

BABIP is flat meaning a hitters BABIP is a true measure of their own skill and independent of pitching?

Great stuff

By: RMR

RMR — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 17:42:53 +0000

I think Kazinski is likely on to something, though it will be interesting to see what happens with the relievers removed. The lower the quality of your offerings, the more need you have to deceive the hitter through other pitch types. If you’re Mariano Rivera and can throw an unhittable cutter, why develop a curve — or at least use it.

By: R.J. Anderson

R.J. Anderson — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 17:36:39 +0000

Pitch Types that BIS tracks:
FB – fastball
SL – slider
CT – cutter
CB – curveball
CH – changeup
SF – split-fingered
KN – knuckleball

I’m sure there are some classification errors in terms of fastballs, slurves (is it a slider or curve?), etc. though.

By: Thor

Thor — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 17:34:49 +0000

Well, as a Mariners fan, the example that comes to mind is JJ Putz–there was a clear example of how adding another pitch helped in a game theory sense. He added a splitter that looked similar to his fastball from the delivery. It helped that it was a very good splitter, of course.

Is there a way that you can systematically look at pitchers who add pitches from one year to the next, or can you only look up pitchers on a career basis?