Huntington, Pirates Win At Deadline
Given the minimal returns for players like Dan Haren, Roy Oswalt, and Lance Berkman at the deadline, it’s hard to consider this year’s trade market as anything other than a buyer’s market. As such, one would expect that a team like the Pittsburgh Pirates, looking to sell at the deadline, would have to settle for a disappointing return, particularly given the performance of their trade pieces this season. I wrote back in June about their relatively bleak trading prospects:
The obvious answer is to sell; what’s less obvious is who to sell. Octavio Dotel is an interesting flamethrowing reliever, but he’s performed right around replacement level this season. Akinori Iwamura likely doesn’t have a future with this Pirates team, but given his terrible performance this year, the return for him would be minimal, and similarly for Ryan Church and Brendan Donnelly. Right now, this Pirates team really doesn’t have anybody to sell.
Dotel has picked up his performance since the writing, but Church has been horrendous and both Iwamura and Donnelly have been designated for assignment. The Pirates also managed to move Bobby Crosby, D.J. Carrasco and Javier Lopez, who compiled a grand total of -0.2 WAR in 2010 and aren’t projected to get much better. These three, along with Dotel and Church, were owed about $4.5 million for the rest of the season. Given the fact that the Astros and Indians had to throw money into trades with the Yankees, it seems hard to believe that the Pirates could acquire value for this ragtag group without at least throwing in a significant sum of cash.
That, however, is exactly what Neal Huntington managed to do, turning this group of players into Chris Snyder, John Bowker, Joe Martinez, Pedro Ciriaco, James McDonald, Andrew Lambo, and, perhaps most shockingly, $2.5 million dollars. Snyder is likely the only player who will make an immediate impact at the Major League level, but he’s a good player, with a bat above the league average at the catcher position. McDonald may also have a quick impact, either in the bullpen or in the starting rotation. The rest have varying statuses, from utilityman ceiling to legitimate but troubled prospect to junkballing righty. Still, this is a group that at worst contains an above-average MLB catcher and at best could produce two or three more starting players for the Pirates. Given the fact that the Pirates traded essentially useless players with limited team control to acquire this group, that’s a big time win, and the kind of moves that teams in the Pirates position need to make.
Now, none of these deals are going to catapult the Pirates into contention next year or anything like that. None of it will matter if players like Jose Tabata, Neil Walker, and Brad Lincoln, among others, can’t turn into contributors for the Major League ball club. But if the Pirates’ core of young players can reach their ceilings, they will need supporting players to bring them to the playoffs. This deadline, the Pirates picked up a group of talented players under team control for a long time. The aforementioned group could form the supporting cast that brings a playoff berth to Pittsburgh in 2014 or 2015. Neal Huntington’s Pirates are certainly headed in the right direction, and although it’s hard to be excited about a team that’s 32 games below .500, there is hope in Pittsburgh.
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I still can’t wrap my head around why the Diamondbacks would even be willing to take Church and Crosby for nothing, let alone give up a good player for them. I know a salary dump is a salary dump, but you need to get something more than negative value, which is what they got.
The Andrew Lambo case is similar to taking Tabata becuase he was a former top prospect who has fallen from grace. The only difference is that unlike so many previous trades, the Pirates get something for nothing rather than something for a lot
In which trades did they give up a lot? After Jason Bay who’s the good player they gave up? Jose Bautista?
They probably wish they had Gorzelanny back.
I kind of forgot all about that one. Funny that the Gorzelanny deal and the Bautista deal might have been the two that got the least attention as they’re pretty clearly the most productive this year.
Eh, let’s see. They burned their bullpen down to the water line. Lambo might turn into something someday, but the rest of the “prospects” they got are not really prospects any more. They have all had numerous chances and have failed to take advantage every time. I mean, if James McDonald can’t pitch in Dodger Stadium against the Giants and Padres, how on earth is he going to fare in a place like Pittsburgh? I’d say it’s a wash at best with the $2.5 M being the one redeeming feature, but $2.5 M won’t buy you very much in baseball these days.
How can it be a wash when the Pirates gave up literally nothing of value? At they very least they added Chris Snyder for two years on a reasonable deal, who should provide 2ish WAR per year if he’s healthy.
If they get so much as a decent bench player or fringe starter in the future out of that crop of minor league players, this trade is a significant win for the Pirates. Not every move can be flashy. The Pirates basically held a yard sale and managed to get rid of old junk that was just taking up space in their garage and pulled in about two hundred dollars in the process. It’s not eye catching, but it’s just free money.
These moves are not going to do a thing to change the balance of power in the NL. That’s all I’m saying. It made the team even worse than it already is in the short term and did nothing to help them in the long term. Hardly the stuff to write a column calling them deadline winners or their GM anything special.
“It made the team even worse than it already is in the short term and did nothing to help them in the long term. ”
The Pirates gave up players with a net -WAR and acquired players with a net +WAR and this somehow makes them worse in the short run. Apparently every single prospect is going to bust too so the team will be no better in the long term! Wait, prospects don’t always bust and a positive WAR is better than a negative WAR? Who knew?
“$2.5 M won’t buy you very much in baseball these days.”
Felipe Lopez only cost the Cardinals $2M.
Like I said….
So, you’re saying James McDonald isn’t a viable starter because he didn’t show mastery in his 5 MLB starts or so, and his 70 MLB innings? Really? REALLY?
Oh, yeah, it really doesn’t matter how good your bullpen is if you’re like 20 games under .500. Fact.
James McDonald has spectacular looking stuff, but it’s stuff that will get him killed as a major leaguer. I saw him pitch in the Cal League a couple of years ago against the San Jose Giants. He struck out 13 batters that night and lost something like 5-2 because he gave up a 2 run HR to some career minor leaguer I can’t remember the name of and a 3 run blast to Pablo Sandoval that just might be the longest HR I’ve ever seen live. His problem is that everything he throws is up in the zone. If a couple of minor leaguers can catch up with it, what do you suppose a lineup of major league hitters is going to do. Sure enough, he pitches against the Giants last trip to LA, showed up with exactly the same stuff I saw in San Bernardino a couple of years ago, and the Giants teed off on him.
No, I don’t think James McDonald is going to be a successful MLB pitcher.
Speaking of the Pirates moving into contention next year, what do they really need? The obvious answer is that their young players need to perform too their potential, but that doesn’t answer the question. Picking up free agents, and trading for?
With a small amount of pregression, or even with zero regression, the Pirate offense is servicable. I think they need to shore up the bullpen with some quality arms. A starting pitcher that can fill in for two years would be nice, but who?
What players fit the bullpen and starting pitching needs that also fall into the range of what Pirate management will do?
The Pirates aren’t contending next year… well, I could leave it at that. But even if their offense is serviceable, which would be nice, they just don’t have enough starting pitching. They’d really need two starters who are better than any of their current starters to have a chance, and that isn’t going to happen.
I don’t think that shoring up the bullpen is the key, the key is quite obviously starting pitching. When your #2 pitcher goes by the name of Ross Ohlendorf, your #3 is Zack Duke, and your #4 is Jeff Karstens, you need better starting pitching. Maholm is not a true #1 pitcher, but he is indisputably the Pirates #1! Without quality starting pitching, I doubt this team will go far. Taillon looks to be a great prospect when signed and Allie if he sticks as a starter does too, but they are a few years down the road. Brad Lincoln’s development into a reliable starter would really help the team out. Without Lincoln or Morton/McCutchen/another arm making huge strides, I don’t see this team being able to get good enough to compete with just free agents to rely on.
The Pirates’ offense really isn’t that good.
But then, signing a good middle infielder this offseason would be smart.
Jones, Alvarez, McCutchen, Doumit, Tabata, and Milledge is a decent start. Add in Snyder.
Or Cliff Lee, but then, I’m sure he already has pinstripes waiting for him.