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	<title>Comments on: Manny on the Market</title>
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	<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/manny-on-the-market/</link>
	<description>Daily baseball statistical analysis and commentary</description>
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		<title>By: Todd</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/manny-on-the-market/#comment-63248</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 03:17:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=1716#comment-63248</guid>
		<description>Where do you get $5 million/win?  According to the book Diamond Dollars (ISBN-13: 9780977743636), each win that does not significantly impact a team&#039;s playoff potential is worth aprox. $1.1 million.  The difference between 89 wins and 90 wins is obviously far more significant, and is likely to be somewhere around the $6 million range. 

The point being that Manny Ramirez is worth different amounts to different teams. That said, I completely agree with your assessment that no matter who signs him, he is nowhere near worth the 20 something million he will probably get (actually, no single player is according to the affore-mentioned book, great read by the way). I suspect that with the current economic climate that this will be more true than before.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where do you get $5 million/win?  According to the book Diamond Dollars (ISBN-13: 9780977743636), each win that does not significantly impact a team&#8217;s playoff potential is worth aprox. $1.1 million.  The difference between 89 wins and 90 wins is obviously far more significant, and is likely to be somewhere around the $6 million range. </p>
<p>The point being that Manny Ramirez is worth different amounts to different teams. That said, I completely agree with your assessment that no matter who signs him, he is nowhere near worth the 20 something million he will probably get (actually, no single player is according to the affore-mentioned book, great read by the way). I suspect that with the current economic climate that this will be more true than before.</p>
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		<title>By: David Appelman</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/manny-on-the-market/#comment-56534</link>
		<dc:creator>David Appelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 19:18:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=1716#comment-56534</guid>
		<description>Josh, wOBA in the Marcel projections appears to be calculated using the &quot;standard&quot; wOBA formula which is:

(.72* NIBB + .75 * HBP + .9 * 1B + 1.24 * 2B + 1.56 * 3B + 1.95 * HR) / (AB + NIBB + HBP + SF + SH)

For this formula, the wOBA scale is 1.15 and the league average happens to be .332, so those are the numbers you&#039;ll want to use if you choose to use the wOBA projection provided with the Marcels and found here on FanGraphs.

If you are using the raw Marcel projections to calculate wOBA differently (say using the 2008 values found in Tango&#039;s spreadsheet), you&#039;ll want to calculate wRAA etc... using whatever the Scale is for that year (1.21 in &#039;08).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Josh, wOBA in the Marcel projections appears to be calculated using the &#8220;standard&#8221; wOBA formula which is:</p>
<p>(.72* NIBB + .75 * HBP + .9 * 1B + 1.24 * 2B + 1.56 * 3B + 1.95 * HR) / (AB + NIBB + HBP + SF + SH)</p>
<p>For this formula, the wOBA scale is 1.15 and the league average happens to be .332, so those are the numbers you&#8217;ll want to use if you choose to use the wOBA projection provided with the Marcels and found here on FanGraphs.</p>
<p>If you are using the raw Marcel projections to calculate wOBA differently (say using the 2008 values found in Tango&#8217;s spreadsheet), you&#8217;ll want to calculate wRAA etc&#8230; using whatever the Scale is for that year (1.21 in &#8217;08).</p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/manny-on-the-market/#comment-56504</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 15:14:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=1716#comment-56504</guid>
		<description>Thanks David,

Question, are you saying that the projected 2009 marcels to use is a league average of .332 (wOBA) and a scale of 1.15.  I simply used the 2008 (whcih i realize is somewhat inaccurate as you are not going to get an identical season in 2009).  

For some reason I naturally used the latest one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks David,</p>
<p>Question, are you saying that the projected 2009 marcels to use is a league average of .332 (wOBA) and a scale of 1.15.  I simply used the 2008 (whcih i realize is somewhat inaccurate as you are not going to get an identical season in 2009).  </p>
<p>For some reason I naturally used the latest one.</p>
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		<title>By: David Appelman</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/manny-on-the-market/#comment-56459</link>
		<dc:creator>David Appelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 06:14:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=1716#comment-56459</guid>
		<description>Josh, the wOBA and all wOBA stats in the player pages and leaderboards are calculated using those values you linked to (with possibly extremely minor differences) and using that particular year&#039;s &quot;wOBA Scale&quot;.

I will note that the wOBA used in the Marcel calculations is whatever was provided in the original 2009 Marcel projections.  To calculate wRAA and wRC for Marcels I use the league average .332 that was provided and the 1.15 wOBA Scale.  Obviously you&#039;re free to calculate wOBA however you want off the projections, but we provide the projections with the same numbers as they&#039;re submitted and try not to alter anything that&#039;s already calculated in the projections unless otherwise advised by the authors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Josh, the wOBA and all wOBA stats in the player pages and leaderboards are calculated using those values you linked to (with possibly extremely minor differences) and using that particular year&#8217;s &#8220;wOBA Scale&#8221;.</p>
<p>I will note that the wOBA used in the Marcel calculations is whatever was provided in the original 2009 Marcel projections.  To calculate wRAA and wRC for Marcels I use the league average .332 that was provided and the 1.15 wOBA Scale.  Obviously you&#8217;re free to calculate wOBA however you want off the projections, but we provide the projections with the same numbers as they&#8217;re submitted and try not to alter anything that&#8217;s already calculated in the projections unless otherwise advised by the authors.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/manny-on-the-market/#comment-56453</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 04:12:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=1716#comment-56453</guid>
		<description>this is where i got my league wOBA and scale which seems like its generally higher then 1.15

http://tangotiger.net/bdb/lwts_woba_for_bdb.txt</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this is where i got my league wOBA and scale which seems like its generally higher then 1.15</p>
<p><a href="http://tangotiger.net/bdb/lwts_woba_for_bdb.txt" rel="nofollow">http://tangotiger.net/bdb/lwts_woba_for_bdb.txt</a></p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/manny-on-the-market/#comment-56452</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 04:10:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=1716#comment-56452</guid>
		<description>I used the one linked to on tango&#039;s site that had the specific 2008 data because its supposed to be more accurate to use current data.

I got that idea from the article and following comments from the wRC and wRAA article
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/wrc-and-wraa/

Although i guess when forecasting it helps to use a standard

what are your thoughts?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used the one linked to on tango&#8217;s site that had the specific 2008 data because its supposed to be more accurate to use current data.</p>
<p>I got that idea from the article and following comments from the wRC and wRAA article<br />
<a href="http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/wrc-and-wraa/" rel="nofollow">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/wrc-and-wraa/</a></p>
<p>Although i guess when forecasting it helps to use a standard</p>
<p>what are your thoughts?</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Seidman</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/manny-on-the-market/#comment-56451</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Seidman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 04:00:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=1716#comment-56451</guid>
		<description>Josh, wOBA here includes SB and CS, so no matter what you use, if you get wOBA from this site, those are included.  I think the formula you meant, if it&#039;s the one we used here before introducing wRAA, is as follows:

((wOBA - avgwOBA)/1.15)*PA)

The league average is usally like .332, at least that&#039;s what Dave and I tend to use.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Josh, wOBA here includes SB and CS, so no matter what you use, if you get wOBA from this site, those are included.  I think the formula you meant, if it&#8217;s the one we used here before introducing wRAA, is as follows:</p>
<p>((wOBA &#8211; avgwOBA)/1.15)*PA)</p>
<p>The league average is usally like .332, at least that&#8217;s what Dave and I tend to use.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/manny-on-the-market/#comment-56450</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 03:58:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=1716#comment-56450</guid>
		<description>I agree, preferring 3 years... the other thing, i noticed, is i am plugging in marcels projected wOBA and using the formula for wRAA which i do not believe includes sb/cs.... its basically a zscore for wOBA... its (wOBA - .328)/121 * PA

I am using that, so that I can adjust the plate appearances (which is marcels real weak spot if you ask me).  So in this case, I can use eqBRR without removing the steals (i think).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, preferring 3 years&#8230; the other thing, i noticed, is i am plugging in marcels projected wOBA and using the formula for wRAA which i do not believe includes sb/cs&#8230;. its basically a zscore for wOBA&#8230; its (wOBA &#8211; .328)/121 * PA</p>
<p>I am using that, so that I can adjust the plate appearances (which is marcels real weak spot if you ask me).  So in this case, I can use eqBRR without removing the steals (i think).</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Seidman</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/manny-on-the-market/#comment-56447</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Seidman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 03:45:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=1716#comment-56447</guid>
		<description>Yeah, that would do it.  Add in the EQBRR sans steals.  For the future I&#039;ll likely do that.  Though it is a tad incomplete given we only have it for 2007 and 2008.  That could be enough, but I like 3 yrs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, that would do it.  Add in the EQBRR sans steals.  For the future I&#8217;ll likely do that.  Though it is a tad incomplete given we only have it for 2007 and 2008.  That could be enough, but I like 3 yrs.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/manny-on-the-market/#comment-56445</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 03:36:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=1716#comment-56445</guid>
		<description>what i decided to do was use BPs EQBRR-EQSBR which should eliminate the double counting.  I hope.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what i decided to do was use BPs EQBRR-EQSBR which should eliminate the double counting.  I hope.</p>
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