Comments on: MLB Trade Value ’08: #1 – #5 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/mlb-trade-value-08-1-5/ Daily baseball statistical analysis and commentary Sun, 12 Feb 2012 19:52:58 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Love o Meter http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/mlb-trade-value-08-1-5/#comment-216366 Love o Meter Wed, 11 Aug 2010 20:40:29 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/mlb-trade-value-08-1-5/#comment-216366 Your so lucky lady give it a try with her Your so lucky lady give it a try with her

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]]> By: link building services http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/mlb-trade-value-08-1-5/#comment-75074 link building services Fri, 08 May 2009 17:08:53 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/mlb-trade-value-08-1-5/#comment-75074 How do I add this to my RSS reader? Sorry I'm a newbie :( How do I add this to my RSS reader? Sorry I’m a newbie :(

]]> By: Paul Sporer http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/mlb-trade-value-08-1-5/#comment-37483 Paul Sporer Wed, 16 Jul 2008 21:36:46 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/mlb-trade-value-08-1-5/#comment-37483 I could understand if you spoke of a Coors-aided SLG for Helton, but not a Coors-aided OBP. His batting eye that leads to his walks and hits isn't really a product of Coors. That's just picking a nit though... absolutely great article!! I really enjoyed it 50-to-1 even if I didn't agree with every single ranking. Well done, sir! I could understand if you spoke of a Coors-aided SLG for Helton, but not a Coors-aided OBP. His batting eye that leads to his walks and hits isn’t really a product of Coors. That’s just picking a nit though… absolutely great article!! I really enjoyed it 50-to-1 even if I didn’t agree with every single ranking. Well done, sir!

]]> By: Another Jon http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/mlb-trade-value-08-1-5/#comment-37082 Another Jon Tue, 08 Jul 2008 20:13:01 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/mlb-trade-value-08-1-5/#comment-37082 In your top 50 trade values, you have McCann (6), Mauer (15), Martin (18), and Soto (28). I'm a little surprised there aren't more catchers due to position scarcity. Also, when you factor in the age of the catchers or low quality of options for the high budget teams and contenders, it makes me curious what a Jesus Flores (good d, hitting well in a lousy line up, one more year before arbitration) could command on the market, say, from Boston in the offseason. Salty does not make the list after being traded (with Andrus) for rent a Teix? Wouldn't Toronto trade McGowan for either of those guys? I'm just curious. In your top 50 trade values, you have McCann (6), Mauer (15), Martin (18), and Soto (28). I’m a little surprised there aren’t more catchers due to position scarcity. Also, when you factor in the age of the catchers or low quality of options for the high budget teams and contenders, it makes me curious what a Jesus Flores (good d, hitting well in a lousy line up, one more year before arbitration) could command on the market, say, from Boston in the offseason. Salty does not make the list after being traded (with Andrus) for rent a Teix? Wouldn’t Toronto trade McGowan for either of those guys? I’m just curious.

]]> By: Dave Cameron http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/mlb-trade-value-08-1-5/#comment-37076 Dave Cameron Tue, 08 Jul 2008 17:44:58 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/mlb-trade-value-08-1-5/#comment-37076 Mike, League adjustments were made, and while I agree that the AL is significantly stronger than the NL right now, I don't believe that has to be reflected on a list like this. The 28 NL players on this list represent the top 7% of the total talent pool in that league. It is certainly reasonable to believe that the difference in leagues is from the bottom 90%. I think we can concurrently believe that the AL is currently the stronger league and that the NL has a bit more premium young talent. These are not mutually exclusive. Just as there are some quality AL players who didn't make the list, I could point to the list of good NL players (Matt Cain, Brandon Phillips, Jason Bay, and Matt Holliday, among others) that didn't make this list either. Mike,

League adjustments were made, and while I agree that the AL is significantly stronger than the NL right now, I don’t believe that has to be reflected on a list like this. The 28 NL players on this list represent the top 7% of the total talent pool in that league. It is certainly reasonable to believe that the difference in leagues is from the bottom 90%. I think we can concurrently believe that the AL is currently the stronger league and that the NL has a bit more premium young talent. These are not mutually exclusive.

Just as there are some quality AL players who didn’t make the list, I could point to the list of good NL players (Matt Cain, Brandon Phillips, Jason Bay, and Matt Holliday, among others) that didn’t make this list either.

]]> By: JW http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/mlb-trade-value-08-1-5/#comment-37074 JW Tue, 08 Jul 2008 17:39:38 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/mlb-trade-value-08-1-5/#comment-37074 David Wright is a "very good" but not "great" hitter? I know you meant to imply growth, but he's already a great hitter who could be better. -He's posting the same OPS+ as your top asset right now. -He had a 30/30 season last year -He had the 4th best Adjusted OPS+ in the NL last year -He ranked 2nd last season in runs created -He had played every inning of every game until late June this year, and since finally taking 1 game off is batting 380/458/780 with 5 HR in 13 games. -I don't respect the Rawlings GG award, but he did win one of those. I can keep going, but the point is that he's already an elite hitter in one of the better pitchers parks in baseball. David Wright is a “very good” but not “great” hitter? I know you meant to imply growth, but he’s already a great hitter who could be better.

-He’s posting the same OPS+ as your top asset right now.
-He had a 30/30 season last year
-He had the 4th best Adjusted OPS+ in the NL last year
-He ranked 2nd last season in runs created
-He had played every inning of every game until late June this year, and since finally taking 1 game off is batting 380/458/780 with 5 HR in 13 games.
-I don’t respect the Rawlings GG award, but he did win one of those.

I can keep going, but the point is that he’s already an elite hitter in one of the better pitchers parks in baseball.

]]> By: NadavT http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/mlb-trade-value-08-1-5/#comment-37071 NadavT Tue, 08 Jul 2008 16:07:18 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/mlb-trade-value-08-1-5/#comment-37071 Paul, the hostility in your post is a bit bizarre, and all of your arguments seem to indicate a lack of understanding of what this series of posts is actually about. If you follow the link at the top of the post to Dave's introduction to the series, you'll get a clear definition of the kind of value he's discussing here. "Value" obviously can mean a lot of things, as you illustrated in your post, but the value being discussed here is specifically the value that each player would have to a generic MLB GM, all else being equal. Of course the actual value of a player to a specific team depends on that team's constraints (budget, rebuilding mode vs. win-now mode, etc.), but overall it's fair to say that certain players have more value than others due to their talent level, predicted performance, and contract status. And regarding your comment about Cleveland, a fan should be happy about Sizemore's contract because of what it means about the team's future. Yes, the team is disappointing this year, but because they have a superstar locked up at a bargain salary, they have more room in their budget to go out and get the pieces they need to improve their team. So although the Indians less of a chance of making it to the playoffs this year as the Giants, the difference between a Grady Sizemore contract and a Barry Zito contract says a lot about the ability of these teams to contend in the future. Paul, the hostility in your post is a bit bizarre, and all of your arguments seem to indicate a lack of understanding of what this series of posts is actually about. If you follow the link at the top of the post to Dave’s introduction to the series, you’ll get a clear definition of the kind of value he’s discussing here. “Value” obviously can mean a lot of things, as you illustrated in your post, but the value being discussed here is specifically the value that each player would have to a generic MLB GM, all else being equal. Of course the actual value of a player to a specific team depends on that team’s constraints (budget, rebuilding mode vs. win-now mode, etc.), but overall it’s fair to say that certain players have more value than others due to their talent level, predicted performance, and contract status.

And regarding your comment about Cleveland, a fan should be happy about Sizemore’s contract because of what it means about the team’s future. Yes, the team is disappointing this year, but because they have a superstar locked up at a bargain salary, they have more room in their budget to go out and get the pieces they need to improve their team. So although the Indians less of a chance of making it to the playoffs this year as the Giants, the difference between a Grady Sizemore contract and a Barry Zito contract says a lot about the ability of these teams to contend in the future.

]]> By: Mike Green http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/mlb-trade-value-08-1-5/#comment-37067 Mike Green Tue, 08 Jul 2008 15:03:46 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/mlb-trade-value-08-1-5/#comment-37067 I don't know if league adjustments were made, but if so, they would be too weak for my liking. If 7 of the top 10 and 28 of the top 50 are NLers, it is not a good sign. Markakis would be the obvious omission, and he belongs a lot higher than #50, in my opinion. Other AL candidates would include Quentin, Lester, Greinke, Marcum and Gordon. I don’t know if league adjustments were made, but if so, they would be too weak for my liking. If 7 of the top 10 and 28 of the top 50 are NLers, it is not a good sign. Markakis would be the obvious omission, and he belongs a lot higher than #50, in my opinion. Other AL candidates would include Quentin, Lester, Greinke, Marcum and Gordon.

]]> By: Adam http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/mlb-trade-value-08-1-5/#comment-37066 Adam Tue, 08 Jul 2008 14:51:58 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/mlb-trade-value-08-1-5/#comment-37066 Paul: With all due respect, your line of reasoning (I hesitate to even call it that) is monumentally flawed and utterly misguided. In fact, your argument demonstrates such a glaring inability to grasp the most fundamental aspects of "asset valuation" that part of me thinks that your post was written as a joke (if this is the case, it was a very funny joke. Bravo.) Where to begin? Inherent to the valuation of an asset is the notion of "value" (obviously). Simplistically speakling, value is something that is determined by market forces. For the sake of this argument let's say that the Rays have 2 exact replicas of Evan Longoria (I know, it's hard to believe). By your logic, the existence of Evan Longoria #1 would make Evan Longoria #2 completely useless (and devoid of value) because he would be blocked by Evan Longoria #1 from reaching the Majors. Luckily, however, there is this little caveat in baseball known as trading in which one team exchanges it's assets for another team's assets. Therefore, Evan Longoria #2 is still just as "valuable of an asset" even though the Rays already have EL #1--the relative strength of each team and/or place in the standings is completely irrelevant in ascertaining the value of these assets (much the same way that if Bill Gates has $10 million of microsoft stock, it is still worth $10 million even though Bill Gates doesn't actually need the extra money). Paul:

With all due respect, your line of reasoning (I hesitate to even call it that) is monumentally flawed and utterly misguided. In fact, your argument demonstrates such a glaring inability to grasp the most fundamental aspects of “asset valuation” that part of me thinks that your post was written as a joke (if this is the case, it was a very funny joke. Bravo.) Where to begin?

Inherent to the valuation of an asset is the notion of “value” (obviously). Simplistically speakling, value is something that is determined by market forces. For the sake of this argument let’s say that the Rays have 2 exact replicas of Evan Longoria (I know, it’s hard to believe). By your logic, the existence of Evan Longoria #1 would make Evan Longoria #2 completely useless (and devoid of value) because he would be blocked by Evan Longoria #1 from reaching the Majors. Luckily, however, there is this little caveat in baseball known as trading in which one team exchanges it’s assets for another team’s assets. Therefore, Evan Longoria #2 is still just as “valuable of an asset” even though the Rays already have EL #1–the relative strength of each team and/or place in the standings is completely irrelevant in ascertaining the value of these assets (much the same way that if Bill Gates has $10 million of microsoft stock, it is still worth $10 million even though Bill Gates doesn’t actually need the extra money).

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