Comments on: Organizational Rankings: #18

By: Rob

Rob — Fri, 20 Mar 2009 16:11:05 +0000

I think his arguement loses credibility when he leaves out results. They’ve won 4 divisional titles recently and were one game away from a 5th divisional title.

The arguement is more suited to a fantasy baseball column.

By: Kurt

Kurt — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 15:35:08 +0000

Dave, if you cast the most negative light possible (you did), you would still have to increase every category by a half grade. You must have formed your opinions immediately after a discussion with one of the Pohlad-bashing Negative Nancys making the blog circuit. You turned out some serious hog slop here.

By: Erica

Erica — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 21:38:14 +0000

Let’s put it this way: Morneau is an All-Star who has two Silver Sluggers, an MVP award, and a HR Derby trophy on his mantle (although this is, technically, the property of “Jason” Morneau). He’s in his prime right now, with the potential to be even better this season, and he is one of the face of the Twins franchise. If that’s not a formula for a superstar, I don’t know what is.

By: biggity2bit

biggity2bit — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 21:05:52 +0000

OK–of your top ten most valuable hitters, only one of the top seven made it to the playoffs last year (Utley). Four of the top seven MVP vote getters made it to the playoffs, with an additional two (Mauer and Morneau) missing out because of a coin flip.

Furthermore, of your top seven most valuable hitters, four out of seven hit in stadiums whose park factors favored pitchers. Of these four hitters, only one played for a team with any realistic playoff hopes (D. Wright). Perhaps they are good hitters on bad teams, but with the exception of Wright none of their contributions were enough to make their team a playoff team.

On the other hand, the top seven hitters in MVP balloting played in some of the best hitter’s parks in MLB, with the exception of Mauer and Morneau. Park factor rankings for the top seven MVP hitters last year are (higher number favors hitters): 5, 28, 5, 28, 4, 1, 12. And of these top seven hitters, six out of the seven either made the playoffs or were in contention until the last week of the season.

My point is one of values–a player who puts up great numbers on a mediocre (or just outright bad) team isn’t more ‘valuable’ to me than a player who’s contributions are vital to their team’s success. Morneau played in almost the worst park for hitters last year, was arguably a coin flip away from the playoffs last year, and was so important to his team that the Twins would have had zero chance at being in contention without him. To me that makes him a legitimate MVP candidate, and more deserving of a ‘minor star’ label.

By: Rob M

Rob M — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 20:29:00 +0000

OK, since 2000 the Twins have the 8th most wins in MLB, over the past 5 years, the Twins have the 6th most wins in MLB. Last year they had the 9th most wins in MLB. How is this the 18th best team? Now if this is a ranking of team going forward, which is a much more difficult endeavor than looking back, it may be possible that over the next 3-5 years the Twins will win the 18th most games. But I doubt it.

By: NadavT

NadavT — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:06:20 +0000

If you’re going to argue about “such obvious information” as why Morneau is more than a minor star, you should probably provide some evidence for why this point is so obvious and indisputable.

One place to start would be the “Leaders” tab on this site. If you then click on “Value” and look at the top 35 hitters, ranked by combined offensive and defensive value, you’ll notice that Morneau isn’t among them. If you’d like, you can even look at the rankings for 2006, when Morneau won his MVP. Again, you’ll find that he’s not among the top 35 hitters. Given that, I don’t think “minor star” is such an unreasonable label.

By: Erica

Erica — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:05:10 +0000

You believe Morneau is overrated; I respectfully disagree. He is a VITAL cog in the Twins lineup, batted clean-up in every game last season, plays above-average defense at first, and is a real clubhouse leader. [Unsupported statement time: Morneau is the epitome of a team-first player, too.] Ozzie Guillen called Morneau the most dangerous hitter in the league (granted, before his late-season swoon- check out his May–August numbers). His second-most-in-the-league RBIs result from a combination of high batting average and power, and he hits especially well with RISP.

Morneau is an upgrade for all but a handful of teams in the majors, and he doesn’t deserve to be disparaged because of bitterness over his (earned) 2006 MVP award. Calling him a “minor star” is more than harsh; it’s completely bogus. If Morneau’s not good enough, tell me- who in the AL Central qualifies as a legitimate superstar?

As for Mauer, I didn’t feel the need to defend him in this post because he was listed as a perennial MVP candidate- which is accurate.

By: NadavT

NadavT — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:50:47 +0000

Forward-Looking Exercise.

Forward. Looking.

By: Robert

Robert — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:37:39 +0000

I wouldn’t say he is worshipped by the media when they got his name wrong for winning the HR derby. and if you want to talk about someone who is worshipped for his RBI total, Josh Hamilton anyone? He is also a very good player, but the only reason he gets any credit is because he blew is signing bonus up his nose and then stopped doing drugs. Whereas Morneau never did drugs, and still doesn’t so he is less of a man. This is more a harp on the media worshipping people just because they quit doing drugs. How about giving credit to the people who never did drugs.

By: Rob in CT

Rob in CT — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:25:44 +0000

I agree the Twins are a solid organization (though ownership could spend more) overall, and I’d probably have ranked them higher. Some of these rankings have really struck me as odd.

As for Morneau, please. He’s overrated, at least by the MVP voters. Morneau’s being a Twin hasn’t stopped the writers from worshipping at the altar of RBI (while simultaneously ignoring the superior Twins player: Mauer). Morneau is a good player… perhaps “minor star” was a bit harsh. He be an upgrade at 1B for many (most?) teams. I think people tend to tear him down a bit b/c of the MVP he won in ’06, which many didn’t think he deserved (myself included). But seriously, if you want to whine about an underrated Twinkie, Mauer’s your guy.