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	<title>Comments on: Pay More Attention to Swings and Misses</title>
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	<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/pay-more-attention-to-swings-and-misses/</link>
	<description>Daily baseball statistical analysis and commentary</description>
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		<title>By: Fresh Hops</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/pay-more-attention-to-swings-and-misses/#comment-64605</link>
		<dc:creator>Fresh Hops</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 20:08:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=3330#comment-64605</guid>
		<description>Efficiency studies on pitchers have shown that the most efficient ones are the ones with high strike out and low walk rates. (Efficiency is just pitches per out.) It takes more pitches to strike a batter out than to put a ball in play; however, about 1/3 of balls in play are hits, so that means the pitcher has to face another batter. Equally importantly, if the ball in play is a hit, you have a runner on base with the opportunity to score (or two of them in the GIDP case.) Take a look at pitch to contact guys (Carlos Silva) and compare with some guys that do 7K/9 and 2.5BB/9. The latter are allow fewer runs and don&#039;t throw more pitches per game. So I think the global case is mistaken.

The local example is important. You&#039;re certainly right that ending the inning with GIDP is better than a strike out. But the question is whether the pitcher has much control over that outcome. The received view is that a pitcher effects Ks and BBs to a high degree, some has some control over whether batted balls are GB or ball in the air, and little control over the rest. If that&#039;s right (and it has some pretty good evidence going for it), there&#039;s probably not much a pitcher can do to induce GIDP over and above his ability to produce a GB. Even the best GB pitchers can&#039;t induce GB on more than about 65% of batted balls, so that suggests a pretty small ability to produce GIDP.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Efficiency studies on pitchers have shown that the most efficient ones are the ones with high strike out and low walk rates. (Efficiency is just pitches per out.) It takes more pitches to strike a batter out than to put a ball in play; however, about 1/3 of balls in play are hits, so that means the pitcher has to face another batter. Equally importantly, if the ball in play is a hit, you have a runner on base with the opportunity to score (or two of them in the GIDP case.) Take a look at pitch to contact guys (Carlos Silva) and compare with some guys that do 7K/9 and 2.5BB/9. The latter are allow fewer runs and don&#8217;t throw more pitches per game. So I think the global case is mistaken.</p>
<p>The local example is important. You&#8217;re certainly right that ending the inning with GIDP is better than a strike out. But the question is whether the pitcher has much control over that outcome. The received view is that a pitcher effects Ks and BBs to a high degree, some has some control over whether batted balls are GB or ball in the air, and little control over the rest. If that&#8217;s right (and it has some pretty good evidence going for it), there&#8217;s probably not much a pitcher can do to induce GIDP over and above his ability to produce a GB. Even the best GB pitchers can&#8217;t induce GB on more than about 65% of batted balls, so that suggests a pretty small ability to produce GIDP.</p>
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		<title>By: MattS</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/pay-more-attention-to-swings-and-misses/#comment-64595</link>
		<dc:creator>MattS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 18:42:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=3330#comment-64595</guid>
		<description>This is definitely interesting stuff.  I think that these kinds of things are far more useful for looking at rookies or players with very little data available on them, rather than being helpful for players with other data.  Swinging strikes, called strikes, all types of things like that are very noisy signals of what we&#039;re actually trying to predict-- outcomes. I did a piece recently at StatSpeak, where I discussed including stats like this in regressions to predict things.  

The pitcher one is not actually listed, but it followed the same pattern-- when I regressed strikeout rate on the previous year&#039;s strikeout rate and the previous year&#039;s contact% (as listed by fangraphs), the contact rate out significant and predictably so-- less contact (and more swings and misses) meant that the pitcher was likely to strikeout more people the following year than the earlier year&#039;s strikeout rate would predict alone.  However, a second year of strikeout data left contact% very statistically insignificant.  Have a look at the article.

http://statspeak.net/2009/03/skills-repeatability-and-peripherals.html

That&#039;s not to downplay this article-- to the contrary, it&#039;s to focus where it&#039;s useful and that is looking at young players.  The old ones have enough data that a noisy signal of skill won&#039;t help.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is definitely interesting stuff.  I think that these kinds of things are far more useful for looking at rookies or players with very little data available on them, rather than being helpful for players with other data.  Swinging strikes, called strikes, all types of things like that are very noisy signals of what we&#8217;re actually trying to predict&#8211; outcomes. I did a piece recently at StatSpeak, where I discussed including stats like this in regressions to predict things.  </p>
<p>The pitcher one is not actually listed, but it followed the same pattern&#8211; when I regressed strikeout rate on the previous year&#8217;s strikeout rate and the previous year&#8217;s contact% (as listed by fangraphs), the contact rate out significant and predictably so&#8211; less contact (and more swings and misses) meant that the pitcher was likely to strikeout more people the following year than the earlier year&#8217;s strikeout rate would predict alone.  However, a second year of strikeout data left contact% very statistically insignificant.  Have a look at the article.</p>
<p><a href="http://statspeak.net/2009/03/skills-repeatability-and-peripherals.html" rel="nofollow">http://statspeak.net/2009/03/skills-repeatability-and-peripherals.html</a></p>
<p>That&#8217;s not to downplay this article&#8211; to the contrary, it&#8217;s to focus where it&#8217;s useful and that is looking at young players.  The old ones have enough data that a noisy signal of skill won&#8217;t help.</p>
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		<title>By: Bryan</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/pay-more-attention-to-swings-and-misses/#comment-64593</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 18:00:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=3330#comment-64593</guid>
		<description>Just because called strike percentage has a low correlation with K% doesn&#039;t mean that only swinging strikes matter.  All the low correlation shows us is that as a population, pitchers show no trend between the two.  Since there are many different types of pitchers we might expect many different types of behaviors.  All of those lumped together might drown out any local correlation.

In particular, called strike % on breaking balls probably correlates to strikeouts.  How many times have you seen a batter freeze only to see the curve drop straight through the strike zone?  It would really surprise me if good pitchers don&#039;t get more called strikes.

The outcome of a swinging strike and a called strike are exactly the same all the time.  The only reason I could see any difference between the two is if most strikeouts ended with a disproportionately high amount of swinging strikes.  It would be interesting if this was the case.  That could also explain the very high correlation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just because called strike percentage has a low correlation with K% doesn&#8217;t mean that only swinging strikes matter.  All the low correlation shows us is that as a population, pitchers show no trend between the two.  Since there are many different types of pitchers we might expect many different types of behaviors.  All of those lumped together might drown out any local correlation.</p>
<p>In particular, called strike % on breaking balls probably correlates to strikeouts.  How many times have you seen a batter freeze only to see the curve drop straight through the strike zone?  It would really surprise me if good pitchers don&#8217;t get more called strikes.</p>
<p>The outcome of a swinging strike and a called strike are exactly the same all the time.  The only reason I could see any difference between the two is if most strikeouts ended with a disproportionately high amount of swinging strikes.  It would be interesting if this was the case.  That could also explain the very high correlation.</p>
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		<title>By: don</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/pay-more-attention-to-swings-and-misses/#comment-64583</link>
		<dc:creator>don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 15:10:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=3330#comment-64583</guid>
		<description>John&#039;s about to turn 130, so I&#039;m willing to cut him a little slack.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John&#8217;s about to turn 130, so I&#8217;m willing to cut him a little slack.</p>
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		<title>By: thumble</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/pay-more-attention-to-swings-and-misses/#comment-64577</link>
		<dc:creator>thumble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 13:37:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=3330#comment-64577</guid>
		<description>John Walsh has 4 PA? (Related Batters info box at the top right)

Maybe John could give us a breakdown by pitch type and sequence, although the .000 wOBA does not look promising.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John Walsh has 4 PA? (Related Batters info box at the top right)</p>
<p>Maybe John could give us a breakdown by pitch type and sequence, although the .000 wOBA does not look promising.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt H.</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/pay-more-attention-to-swings-and-misses/#comment-64557</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 07:43:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=3330#comment-64557</guid>
		<description>Because balls in play bring in things the pitcher can&#039;t control like defense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Because balls in play bring in things the pitcher can&#8217;t control like defense.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/pay-more-attention-to-swings-and-misses/#comment-64554</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 06:08:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=3330#comment-64554</guid>
		<description>This was a nice post, but I&#039;m not sure I understand why a strikeout is the best possible outcome for a pitcher.  Isn&#039;t this going to depend on context?  Here are two examples, one local and one global in character.  Local.  With one out and a runner on first, the pitcher is pitching to the opposing pitcher (or maybe to the number two hitter or something similar).  Surely, it would be better to induce an inning-ending double-play than to strike out the batter.  Global.  The pitcher is old and/or has lower-than-average endurance.  For such a pitcher, it seems the best thing would be to minimize the expected number of pitches thrown to the opposing hitter, say aiming for something less than three.  Such an approach might make the difference between pitching five innings and pitching six innings.  But doing this means striking out fewer batters.  I&#039;m happy to be shown what I&#039;m missing here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This was a nice post, but I&#8217;m not sure I understand why a strikeout is the best possible outcome for a pitcher.  Isn&#8217;t this going to depend on context?  Here are two examples, one local and one global in character.  Local.  With one out and a runner on first, the pitcher is pitching to the opposing pitcher (or maybe to the number two hitter or something similar).  Surely, it would be better to induce an inning-ending double-play than to strike out the batter.  Global.  The pitcher is old and/or has lower-than-average endurance.  For such a pitcher, it seems the best thing would be to minimize the expected number of pitches thrown to the opposing hitter, say aiming for something less than three.  Such an approach might make the difference between pitching five innings and pitching six innings.  But doing this means striking out fewer batters.  I&#8217;m happy to be shown what I&#8217;m missing here.</p>
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		<title>By: Fresh Hops</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/pay-more-attention-to-swings-and-misses/#comment-64546</link>
		<dc:creator>Fresh Hops</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 05:01:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=3330#comment-64546</guid>
		<description>Nice.

Out of curiosity I grabbed all pitchers with 15 or more starts last season and took a look at swinging strike rates and looking strike rates in a pretty simple way:
The average called strike rate was 17.9% with a maximum value of 25.3% and minimum of 14.5% (range of 10.8) and a standard deviation of 1.6.

The average swinging strike rate was 8.4% with a max of 15.1% and minimum of 3.7% (range 11.4) and standard deviation of 1.9.

There&#039;s greater dispersion in swinging strike rates. This suggests that it&#039;s an ability a pitcher has more ability to control, which one might speculate is true from the get go: a pitcher can only throw so many strikes in the zone that batters don&#039;t swing at.

Thanks for the link to the Walsh article. that was nice stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice.</p>
<p>Out of curiosity I grabbed all pitchers with 15 or more starts last season and took a look at swinging strike rates and looking strike rates in a pretty simple way:<br />
The average called strike rate was 17.9% with a maximum value of 25.3% and minimum of 14.5% (range of 10.8) and a standard deviation of 1.6.</p>
<p>The average swinging strike rate was 8.4% with a max of 15.1% and minimum of 3.7% (range 11.4) and standard deviation of 1.9.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s greater dispersion in swinging strike rates. This suggests that it&#8217;s an ability a pitcher has more ability to control, which one might speculate is true from the get go: a pitcher can only throw so many strikes in the zone that batters don&#8217;t swing at.</p>
<p>Thanks for the link to the Walsh article. that was nice stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: Crane</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/pay-more-attention-to-swings-and-misses/#comment-64536</link>
		<dc:creator>Crane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 04:08:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=3330#comment-64536</guid>
		<description>I knew Micah Owings was really cool. I totally knew it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I knew Micah Owings was really cool. I totally knew it.</p>
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