Comments on: Pitcher Win Values Explained: Part Seven http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/pitcher-win-values-explained-part-seven/ Daily baseball statistical analysis and commentary Mon, 13 Feb 2012 01:33:40 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Jason Wilder http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/pitcher-win-values-explained-part-seven/#comment-410584 Jason Wilder Tue, 21 Dec 2010 18:06:23 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=2482#comment-410584 I'm more of a noob, and appreciated the nice explanations and wonderful work here. But did have a couple questions/comments. Please pardon their noobeness: 1) For WAR for Pitchers (WARp), why no impact for defense? While P is probably the least impactful defensive spot (LF/RF, 1B), it certainly can have an impact, especially on batted balls up the middle. And it IS another factor a pitcher can control. You include defense for WAR position players (it isn't just about batting), why not pitchers? Is there a separate stat for defensive impact for all positions one can look at to see a pitchers defensive impact translated to wins? 2) I've noticed at BBREF.com that WAR for position players goes back all the way to 1871, but pitcher data starts in n1876. Why? This seems to make is hard to measure some HOF level pichers (Mathews, Spalding, Cummings, Bond) against others in this metric with these 5 years missing. Are there plans to do the final 5 years? There don't seem to be any stats missing or unavailable that would account for not calculating it? 3) On the whole FIP thing, I must say, as a noob, I'm unconvinced that HR/BB/K's are the best measures of a pitchers effectiveness. I don't think BABIP is random or equal, and while randomness can certainly play a factor in over a short time frame, over a long one (162 games/multiple years) I feel the type of contact a pitcher allows, etc is an essential tool in evaluating his effectiveness. Not saying there is a better way, just saying that any metric that takes that out of the equation is limited (like any single stat will be). Love the work and keep it up. I’m more of a noob, and appreciated the nice explanations and wonderful work here. But did have a couple questions/comments.

Please pardon their noobeness:

1) For WAR for Pitchers (WARp), why no impact for defense? While P is probably the least impactful defensive spot (LF/RF, 1B), it certainly can have an impact, especially on batted balls up the middle. And it IS another factor a pitcher can control. You include defense for WAR position players (it isn’t just about batting), why not pitchers?

Is there a separate stat for defensive impact for all positions one can look at to see a pitchers defensive impact translated to wins?

2) I’ve noticed at BBREF.com that WAR for position players goes back all the way to 1871, but pitcher data starts in n1876. Why? This seems to make is hard to measure some HOF level pichers (Mathews, Spalding, Cummings, Bond) against others in this metric with these 5 years missing. Are there plans to do the final 5 years? There don’t seem to be any stats missing or unavailable that would account for not calculating it?

3) On the whole FIP thing, I must say, as a noob, I’m unconvinced that HR/BB/K’s are the best measures of a pitchers effectiveness. I don’t think BABIP is random or equal, and while randomness can certainly play a factor in over a short time frame, over a long one (162 games/multiple years) I feel the type of contact a pitcher allows, etc is an essential tool in evaluating his effectiveness. Not saying there is a better way, just saying that any metric that takes that out of the equation is limited (like any single stat will be).

Love the work and keep it up.

]]> By: Kimber Hounshell http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/pitcher-win-values-explained-part-seven/#comment-257447 Kimber Hounshell Fri, 17 Sep 2010 06:33:47 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=2482#comment-257447 One More Day Til the Big Day.....I'm mad I'm a guinea pig though lol One More Day Til the Big Day…..I’m mad I’m a guinea pig though lol

]]> By: Stefan Quencer http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/pitcher-win-values-explained-part-seven/#comment-257422 Stefan Quencer Fri, 17 Sep 2010 05:43:25 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=2482#comment-257422 Jake the guinea pig was apparently under the impression that I'd abandoned him forever. He is clinging and crying. Jake the guinea pig was apparently under the impression that I’d abandoned him forever. He is clinging and crying.

]]> By: Landon Tamburino http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/pitcher-win-values-explained-part-seven/#comment-257417 Landon Tamburino Fri, 17 Sep 2010 05:39:26 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=2482#comment-257417 One More Day Til the Big Day.....I'm mad I'm a guinea pig though lol One More Day Til the Big Day…..I’m mad I’m a guinea pig though lol

]]> By: James Cohen http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/pitcher-win-values-explained-part-seven/#comment-61642 James Cohen Wed, 04 Feb 2009 17:56:30 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=2482#comment-61642 i have some lame questions about re-engineering these values...I assume scaling FIP to RA is the same as scaling to ERA, in terms of leagueRA-leagueFIP, is that right? Also, I keep getting different RA values...is this figured like ERA, in terms of League R/Inn * 9? Thanks again for making all of this mind-blowingly analysis FREE!!!! i have some lame questions about re-engineering these values…I assume scaling FIP to RA is the same as scaling to ERA, in terms of leagueRA-leagueFIP, is that right? Also, I keep getting different RA values…is this figured like ERA, in terms of League R/Inn * 9? Thanks again for making all of this mind-blowingly analysis FREE!!!!

]]> By: RiverMise http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/pitcher-win-values-explained-part-seven/#comment-60090 RiverMise Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:28:58 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=2482#comment-60090 I am having difficulty with the pitcher win% part... Does your .550 win% imply that felix *should* win 55% of the time against an average team assuming average offense and defense on both sides? I am having difficulty with the pitcher win% part… Does your .550 win% imply that felix *should* win 55% of the time against an average team assuming average offense and defense on both sides?

]]> By: drew http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/pitcher-win-values-explained-part-seven/#comment-60078 drew Tue, 20 Jan 2009 21:28:43 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=2482#comment-60078 Thanks Thanks

]]> By: Dave Cameron http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/pitcher-win-values-explained-part-seven/#comment-60077 Dave Cameron Tue, 20 Jan 2009 21:25:28 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=2482#comment-60077 We've had this discussion quite a bit lately. Here are some good places to start reading. http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/war_to_dollar_valuation_but_roster_space_management/ http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/newsstand/discussion/si_red_sox_made_play_for_ss_ramirez/P200/ http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/supervorp/ We’ve had this discussion quite a bit lately. Here are some good places to start reading.

http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/war_to_dollar_valuation_but_roster_space_management/

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/newsstand/discussion/si_red_sox_made_play_for_ss_ramirez/P200/

http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/supervorp/

]]> By: Dave Cameron http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/pitcher-win-values-explained-part-seven/#comment-60073 Dave Cameron Tue, 20 Jan 2009 20:43:16 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=2482#comment-60073 The more accurate replacement level. The more accurate replacement level.

]]> By: Nathan http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/pitcher-win-values-explained-part-seven/#comment-60070 Nathan Tue, 20 Jan 2009 20:21:06 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=2482#comment-60070 What new process accounts for this? Is it the run environment? What new process accounts for this? Is it the run environment?

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